Speakon NL4FX - a step backwards?
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Topic: Speakon NL4FX - a step backwards?
Posted By: SteveAATW
Subject: Speakon NL4FX - a step backwards?
Date Posted: 01 June 2008 at 4:58pm
| Possibly the most spod like question ever asked but does anyone else find that the NLF4X is harder to use, that the terminals don't grip cables as well and is just generally a big step backwards from the NL4FC? |
Replies:
Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 01 June 2008 at 5:08pm
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Yes. It's a nightmare to squeeze 4mm squared cable in them and get it to stay in there.
I've been tempted to buy a load of these: http://www.neutrik.com/fl/en/audio/210_1380446656/NLT4FX-BAG_detail.aspx 
But the price is a little off putting. |
Posted By: SteveAATW
Date Posted: 01 June 2008 at 5:14pm
Yea £6 each is a bit OTT  Agreed on 4mm, only way i've got it to stay in reliably is to take the screw and grip out, stick a tinned cable end in and solder the full thing up, but even then because its recessed so much you have to be careful not to melt or distort the connector. If you needed to solder the 4FC at least all the copper housing was in plain view and you could get an iron on the whole side of it to heat it quickly and be done |
Posted By: CLsystems
Date Posted: 01 June 2008 at 5:29pm
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the easiest way i found was to unscrew the screw till its almost out, they use a small screw driver to push the tab inside the cable bucket so that its flat against the side, then put cable in and tighten. make sure theres enought bare end in there. I dont like the connector release tab either, not as nice as the older style. sometimes ive found that the boot comes undone as you try to take connector out. |
Posted By: Dom
Date Posted: 01 June 2008 at 5:50pm
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I unscrew the screw, throw away the tab and put the screw back in. Never had any problems with 4mm cables. ------------- "It sounded like a million fire engines chasing ten million ambulances through a war zone and it was played at a volume that made the empty chair beside me bleed." |
Posted By: ceharden
Date Posted: 01 June 2008 at 6:55pm
| Thing you have to remember with NL4FX is that they need a much longer bit of cable in the terminal than the NL4FC. If you follow the stripping instructions provided, I've never had any problems with the cable being gripped. |
Posted By: odc04r
Date Posted: 01 June 2008 at 9:24pm
| You do need a fair bit of cable in them yes, I found this a while back. Close to a cm of stripped wire is good. |
Posted By: AlfieDring
Date Posted: 01 June 2008 at 11:12pm
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Also surely if your going to solder it (the 4mm or larger sizes) you take the screw and tab out, split the cable end into two and solder one into the regular socket and the other into the screw hole. Wont ever come out again but then thats not the plan is it :P Alf |
Posted By: kevinmcdonough
Date Posted: 02 June 2008 at 12:18am
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yeah i've never really had a problem with them, generally just strip an extra bit of the wire and make sure its stuffed right in there, and like someone said if your really struggling to fit the wire in, bend the little metal tab up a bit with a screwdriver first and seems to work, for me at least. k |
Posted By: 4DPA
Date Posted: 02 June 2008 at 1:54am
 ------------- bs8901 compliant |
Posted By: opus jody
Date Posted: 02 June 2008 at 9:56am
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recent tests we did showed that : crimped connections sound better than soldered, metal spekons sound better without the metal case (some kind of field effect?)and not as good as the plastic ones. crimped connections on the spekon chassis also improve sound. some surprising results! i thought soldered cons would sound better due to the larger contact area - mai non! obviously tin & lead aren't as good as copper as a conductor. this is in the realms of the ultra fussy, but was enough difference for theatre sound designers to re-do all their existing spekons, where they always used to solder everything. practicalities like tougher spekons could be considered more important. i've never really had a problem with plasic spekons though, exept in a few installs where they've been used as steps to get up on the bass bins. ------------- Improvised Hardware Music http://vimeo.com/user9389813/videos |
Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 02 June 2008 at 10:33am
| I've tried removing the little metal tab and screwing the cable in, and whilst it fits in better that way I found the cable is less secure and they've come loose after a while. |
Posted By: Strange Daze
Date Posted: 02 June 2008 at 10:42am
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i use 2 pole speakons....
Never had one fail, but ive had Nl4s lock inside cabinets, jam up, break, and all sorts...
sh*ttest connector ever designed.
Opus Jody....How may i ask did you test how a crimped NL4 'sounds better' than a soldered one??....(laughs)....opinion or fact??
cheers,
C
|
Posted By: J Nine Bar
Date Posted: 02 June 2008 at 11:45am
are you an EP fan? I've never really got on with them, I get all sorts of boxes at work that have EP's and we never have the right cable to test them. Do you not find that they start to come apart after time?
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4DPA wrote:Posted By: 4DPA
Date Posted: 02 June 2008 at 1:33pm
Yeah I like them, plenty of contact surface area, seem fairly easy to solder. been using them constantly since 1996, I prefer the plastic casing as the metal ones can corrode, one issue is the release tab on the chassis mount can get battered by lazy crew dragging boxes over steps or tailgates. But unlike the nl4's I have never had the cable pull out or refuse to unlock, then the bit I really dislike about speakons is the ritualistic skinning of the knuckles deep in the back of a crowded rack or the wrenching of fingertips trying to untwist or pull back the release in tight recesses. ------------- bs8901 compliant |
Posted By: J Nine Bar
Date Posted: 02 June 2008 at 2:22pm
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My main experience with EP's has been with old battered cables that all seem to have seen better days, but I had to solder up a new set of EP6 cables for a Floodlight rig that I sold recently and was plesantly surprised with the outcome. When new they are a nice robust connector.
I take it all your Res' boxes have the EP option then?
|
Posted By: 4DPA
Date Posted: 02 June 2008 at 4:17pm
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xlr from source to desk/controller, 16way lemo's from controller rack to amp racks. f218's on EP4's one driver per pair of 4x4mm van damme r4's on EP6 6x2.5mm van damme (the pigs tail special) oh and the old three way Tms4's are on EP6 as are the old floods on EP6 as default, random pair of eaw kf300e's on ep4's (a surprisingly sweet sounding box...) failing all of that its banana plugs to socapex, then socapex to soca with tails to EP4 & EP6 moving into the twentieth century rm15's on nl4's, txd115's on nl4's. I gather that for manufacturers nl4's are the cheapest option... nuff said.. Jody... in all your testing what was the verdict on nl8 barrel connectors ------------- bs8901 compliant |
Posted By: ad-d
Date Posted: 02 June 2008 at 4:41pm
lol, that's certainly not going to help matters! |
Posted By: Strange Daze
Date Posted: 02 June 2008 at 6:07pm
seen that more than once too.. daft gits :) |
Posted By: opus jody
Date Posted: 02 June 2008 at 8:59pm
You may laugh - i don't blame you, but its fact. tests were with 2 opus iso-6's, one opus amp and some reeeealy well recorded cd's. 2 identical cables, one with metal soldered & one with plastic spekon screwed. listened to both boxes, compared, one sounded better. then swaped cables to other boxes, and the other speaker sounded better, so the only difference was the cable/spekon. next, metal spekon soldered and plasic one soldered: result no difference. I hadn't put the outer casing on at this point, but got told to do so, and blimey! big difference! All muddled. that was a real surprise. so plasic spekons with & without cases - no difference. plastic spekons with & without solder - big difference. without was much better. then... hey, what about the solder on the back of the spekon socket in the speaker? replaced with crimp - big difference again, even better. tbh this level of listening is fairly irrelevant with almost all dance music stuff, but it really helped the theatre sound bods who are doing some mental stuff in theatres, and i can hear the difference on my rig. double edged sword though, because sh*t recordings sound reeeealy sh*t. oh, 'better' generally means less confused, and more natural sounding. there you go, you can all laugh at me now , and make jokes about 'hot water bottles for cables' & the like. whatever, only trying to help.  ------------- Improvised Hardware Music http://vimeo.com/user9389813/videos |
Posted By: 4DPA
Date Posted: 02 June 2008 at 9:05pm
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and nl8 barrel connectors what did the theatre bods make of those
------------- bs8901 compliant |
Posted By: boab
Date Posted: 02 June 2008 at 9:33pm
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The only problem I see with solder vs crimp terminals is that over time the crimps can corrode whereas solder is a gas tight joint. I wonder what the test would sound like in 5 years time? Boab |
Posted By: opus jody
Date Posted: 02 June 2008 at 10:49pm
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didn't test Nl8's. presumably (dangerous to presume, but hey) same rules apply. @boab - totally true. also metal could fatigue, & fall off! I just did all my bass, which sounded totally fat last weekend, but i'll check it fairly regularly. I'm too scared to do the nl8's on my top boxes. far too many amp channels, sometimes 4, in close proximity. ------------- Improvised Hardware Music http://vimeo.com/user9389813/videos |
Posted By: tweeter box
Date Posted: 03 June 2008 at 12:21pm
+1 ------------- PRECISION SOUND SYSTEM. Feeding the peoples needs for Roots Music. Strictly premium grade reggae and dub steppers from the early 70's to present day. |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 03 June 2008 at 1:25pm
I just put the 4mm cable in the hole on the FX. Goes in fine! Don't know how you guys manage to have problems with these things  ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: 4DPA
Date Posted: 03 June 2008 at 1:45pm
I meant the nl8mm pole barrel connectors for joining two nl8 plugs together  ------------- bs8901 compliant |
Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 04 June 2008 at 1:23pm
| so for those of you crimping 4mm cables to speakon socket tabs, what kind of crimps are ye using? |
Posted By: Dom
Date Posted: 04 June 2008 at 1:52pm
|
Neutrik Fastons ------------- "It sounded like a million fire engines chasing ten million ambulances through a war zone and it was played at a volume that made the empty chair beside me bleed." |
Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 04 June 2008 at 1:54pm
| so these solder onto the cable, and clip onto the tag. in the past when i've used these, i've soldered them onto the tags too just to be sure, if i know i won't be in there trying to swap things round in the forseeable future. |
Posted By: opus jody
Date Posted: 04 June 2008 at 2:59pm
these are bad. i found this out ages ago by putting a load of them in line to 'exadurate' the effect. they are faaaaar to useful at getting you out of the poo to not have them in your bag though. I replaced the bell wire with van damme in my 8 pin cons. hmmm tight fit! we had one new one become disconnected on a customers system, connecting 2 amp channels together  in New Zealand of all places! that was an expensive repair for the sake of a dodgey solder joint. I repeat that this is ultra fussy and not worth paniking over. ------------- Improvised Hardware Music http://vimeo.com/user9389813/videos |
Posted By: HansA
Date Posted: 04 June 2008 at 3:31pm
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To the soldering guys. Are just using regular tin and lead solder or have you tried the once mixed with silver? Higher meltingpoint and better conductor. ------------- �*�o�O�o�*�*: HansA, The FUBAR sound technician :*�*�o�O�o�*� |
Posted By: 4DPA
Date Posted: 04 June 2008 at 3:33pm
 ta for the clarification... are you at glasto ?------------- bs8901 compliant |
Posted By: opus jody
Date Posted: 04 June 2008 at 4:51pm
yup. Caberet in the pussy parlour  safe from the mud ------------- Improvised Hardware Music http://vimeo.com/user9389813/videos |
Posted By: 4DPA
Date Posted: 04 June 2008 at 9:05pm
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Mud free.............. pwarp........... See it last year, Le Parlour reminded me of an old pirate ship run aground, listing to starboard, foredeck awash, glasto-slurry oozing from the seams Malcolm splicing his mainbrace.. ------------- bs8901 compliant |
Posted By: nineleaves
Date Posted: 06 June 2008 at 9:19pm
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cant say i particularly like the new spkns.. just made some cables up using 4mm, 4core, armored 3 phase cable & they barely fitted in there. also the crimp on connections thing re opus.. i kind of find that a little suspect. heres an experiment to try, make soldered connections on part of a cable, then some crimp connectors inline ..and see how it sounds. then try it with soldering across the crimps.. the only difference which should be observable here is that one will have a weaker link in part of the chain.. ie the crimps. Where there is an observed difference, it will be where the crimps prove detrimental. the presence of the soldered joint in both tests will show that it has no influence in itself ;) if you find this debatable, open the lid of your amp and look at all the soldered connections feeding that amplified signal out of there. which is unavoidable; thus if you are observing a difference, like the cables described.. its not because theres a soldered connection inline ;) |
Posted By: opus jody
Date Posted: 08 June 2008 at 1:05pm
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If i understand you right, i should compare: a solid cable, a crimped(faston) cable connection, a soldered cable connection and a crimped connection that has been soldered, the question being does the solder actually mess up the crimped (therefore plenty of metal-metal contact) con, or does the solder mess it up when it gets in the way of metal - metal contact as in a tinned 1st, soldered connection. probably won't do it for a while, but i'll do that at some point soon. actually ive removed all the soldered connections on one of my amps output sections already. I had some work to do on it anyway, so thought why not. It does sound better, but unfortunately i changed a few other things as well, so i don't know if its due to that. I won't be changing all my amps, unless i'm in there anyway. far bigger fish to fry in other areas. Silver solder..... now there's an idea! bollox to it, i'm not rebuilding all my amps now. maybe just the processing maybe.... never ends does it. ------------- Improvised Hardware Music http://vimeo.com/user9389813/videos |
Posted By: Bespoke
Date Posted: 08 June 2008 at 3:29pm
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You tried silver speaker cable yet ? Very nice and a different sound all together. Sound
 Price  ------------- Gone |
Posted By: nineleaves
Date Posted: 08 June 2008 at 3:37pm
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christ ! ..crack out the palladium. |
Posted By: Bespoke
Date Posted: 08 June 2008 at 3:42pm
 Not me but my dad '' Real HiFi Son '' ------------- Gone |
Posted By: nineleaves
Date Posted: 08 June 2008 at 3:54pm
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i couldn't exactly approve of such esoteric practices; as conclusions are hardly ever drawn to with proper theory & under proper scientific testing conditions, with double blind tests & eliminating other potential bigger variables, like cable capacitance, which can impart a greater influence. i just feel sometimes that people are drawn to such things; as they feel such expensive solutions 'should' work better & get some strange placebo thing going on. tho if peeps feel they need to go ahead and do some very unscientific things in the pursuit of fidelity.. fair nuffs; doesn't get my vote tho ;) as for silver cables in the gig bag... hehe and you thought you had a problem with mic leads going missing ! ;) |
Posted By: odc04r
Date Posted: 08 June 2008 at 3:55pm
If I put down several hundred £ for silver speaker cable then I would convince myself it sounded better too! |
Posted By: nineleaves
Date Posted: 08 June 2008 at 4:05pm
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although this is a looong way from the topic of a nl4fx; the sure way to eliminate the speaker cable as an issue in the equasion; is to put the amp directly in the speaker keeping its connections as short as possible :) also getting rid of the distortion inducing passive crossover & putting an amp on eachg speaker driver & using a high quality passive crossover rounds things up nicely. so ironically, the best fidelity is going to come from powered speakers ! ;) only theres not as much accessory money making potential for that in the hifi market. for those otherwise inclined ..find a really, really good set of studio monitors ;) btw most powered pa cabs suck; too many people are still unfortunately cutting too many corners to make them really, really good :/ |
Posted By: james folkes
Date Posted: 08 June 2008 at 6:13pm
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i personally find the nl4fx easier to terminate than the fc, and i have no trouble using 4mm cable either. as has been said a few times now, just take the screw most of the way out and use a pokey thing to push the plate all the way back, the key is probably making sure the stripped section is long enough, if it doesn't bottom out in the pot the clamp doesn't seem to get a good grip.
no, my only beef is between the two versions of the fx: the later revision has a turned up grip on the release catch which makes for a really easy and positive action. the earlier, more rounded ones are harder to undo, particularly if they are in some inaccessible place or if the socket is a bit worn. i have ep8s on my martin f2, the shroud doesn't seem to be big enough for the sheath of modern chunky speaker cable and i have ended up with slightly unsightly exposed sections, that said i won some absurdly large heat shrink sleeve from work so i can tidy them up a bit. they're ok to solder if your iron is man enough, i ended up having to use my old tin-man seal clubber to get enough heat... i do not possess any of those 8 pole barrel connectors, but i do have a lot of 30 amp terminal strip... 
http://imageshack.us"> 
james. ------------- mardy hippy. |
Posted By: nineleaves
Date Posted: 08 June 2008 at 6:33pm
| oh, another thing whilst i remember.. most of the electron flow seems to occur on the outer surfaces of a given conductor :) ..thus for what its worth, coating copper in rare metals is liable to work just as well as using 100% ;) |
Posted By: SteveAATW
Date Posted: 08 June 2008 at 6:55pm
| Err, for certain parts of HF maybe but for bass the skin depth will be largely irrelevant and the full cable will be utilised. |
Posted By: Wrighty
Date Posted: 08 June 2008 at 8:24pm
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One point when it comes to mounting Speakon sockets. I've come across many which are mounted from behind the panel, using pan head screws. Due to the thickness of the panel, the Speakon plug catches on the top left screw as the connector is being engaged. Aside from making it difficult to engage/disengage the connectors, this will eventually wear out the keyways on both the socket and the plug. I mount all my Speakons from the front when using panels which don't have countersunk holes. I'm using NL4MPR (with the big round flange) on my cabs. As for the NL4FX, I've never had any problems with 4mm cable and I've made off a fair few. I agree with the suggestion of almost completely undoing the screws and pushing the tab up first - this makes things much easier. The tab is good because it stops the screw chewing up the strands of cable. ------------- ALL YOUR BASS ARE BELONG TO US. |
Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 22 July 2008 at 10:20pm
Is it worth running with these cheap speakon look-a-likes @ £1.50 each on E-bay...
 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=170240927220&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:PIC&ih=007#ebayphotohosting - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=170240927220&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:PIC&ih=007#ebayphotohosting
Anyone use them ?
or just run with genuine ones @ £3.25 each ?
 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320179563604&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=011 - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320179563604&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=011
Could bulk buy & get the real ones for £2.04 each!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/100-X-Neutrik-type-SPEAKON-CABLE-CONNECTION-Model-NL4FX_W0QQitemZ310069205025QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item310069205025&_trksid=p3286.m14.l1318#ebayphotohosting - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/100-X-Neutrik-type-SPEAKON-CABLE-CONNECTION-Model-NL4FX_W0QQitemZ310069205025QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item310069205025&_trksid=p3286.m14.l1318#ebayphotohosting
------------- **Heavy Weight-Line** A home without books is like a body with no soul. |
Posted By: kevin tyler
Date Posted: 23 July 2008 at 11:14am
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not sure about the speakon rip offs, but the cheap neutrik xlr copies you get from thoman and such are very poor, the pieces dont mate with themselves to well, best to get the good stuff for speaker and amp connection maybe?
just my opinion
kev
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Posted By: byacey
Date Posted: 18 June 2016 at 7:58am
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I've only ever used the NL4FX until tonight, where I made up a cable with NL4FC ends. My impression of the NL4FCs: Wires seem to go in easier, however Neutrik could have at least identified the terminal poles like the Fxs. Trying to decipher which plastic tit on the connector corresponds with the crappy image on the plastic bag is of little help. I think I prefer the FXs, which have the pole numbers and polarity marked on the connector. Regarding the solder vs crimp vs fidelity issue: I would wager money in a double blind listening tests, nobody could hear the difference; and in my opinion, solder is a more reliable, robust, permanent, low resistance connection. Except I don't think the higher heat involved for solders with silver content would be good for the plastic insulation of the speakon connectors. Skin effect doesn't become a significant consideration until you start trying to pass radio frequencies down the cable. http://www.belden.com/blog/broadcastav/understanding-skin-effect-and-frequency.cfm |
Posted By: lickweed
Date Posted: 28 July 2023 at 9:28am
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Not much going on in this very lively forum back in a day , so gonna dig up so old stuff and try to resurrect some good stuff ------------- http://www.liquidsound.co.uk/ |
Posted By: lickweed
Date Posted: 28 July 2023 at 12:12pm
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We need Rog and Timmy back. ------------- http://www.liquidsound.co.uk/ |
Posted By: lickweed
Date Posted: 28 July 2023 at 12:20pm
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Rog enjoy well deserved retirement in Canaries , but anyone got feeling that this forum is slowly dying ------------- http://www.liquidsound.co.uk/ |
Posted By: Lucasdude
Date Posted: 28 July 2023 at 1:55pm
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Im sure NL4FC has the number and polarity on the black plastic by each terminal... |
Posted By: Lucasdude
Date Posted: 28 July 2023 at 1:58pm
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Also, I liked the old skool black and white cable grips for different diameter outers. The newer versions won't grab a classic figure 8 cable like 105 strand. |
Posted By: tehuti
Date Posted: 14 August 2023 at 6:01am
| The new nl4fxx is amazing though. |
Posted By: KDW32
Date Posted: 14 August 2023 at 3:05pm
Yes really like these been making cables with them last week. Good improvements.
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Posted By: Digbethdave
Date Posted: 17 August 2023 at 12:06am
How are they with 4mm?
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