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I guess i'm no carpenter

Printed From: Speakerplans.com
Category: Plans
Forum Name: 1850 and 186 horns
Forum Description: Discussion / Questions about the 1850 and 186 horns
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=19081
Printed Date: 15 April 2024 at 2:24pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.06 - https://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: I guess i'm no carpenter
Posted By: djtecthreat
Subject: I guess i'm no carpenter
Date Posted: 19 August 2008 at 3:06am
I started my 186 today.   And I failed miserably.   It's about 45% built and I feel like I should  just throw it in the fire pit out back. 

I'm pretty discouraged,  I was looking forward to eventually building 8 of these and some MT122's, but I don't think I could build 1 without making it hideously out of spec.

Any ideas?   I've lost hope and I feel like i'm truly not meant to build speakers.

-Jim



Replies:
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 19 August 2008 at 3:25am
Don't be so down.

From this post, I think you were using cordless power tools. For which cutting long even mitres can be very hard without a jig. Yes, that is the difference between the complexity of a reflex and of a horn, the mitre cuts.

Do you live near a school?
If you do, have a chat with them and see whether you can borrow their DT facilities when they're not using them. This will give you access to a table saw, which makes things much easier (even easier with a cutlist)...and maybe even a cnc if you're lucky.

If you are building 8, I would actually recommend 1850 horns which are optimised for larger stacks (anything bigger than or equal to 4), but that's another point.


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Away on extended leave.


Posted By: djtecthreat
Date Posted: 19 August 2008 at 4:18am
Not using cordless tools.   But I don't have access to anything really great,  Schools wont let me get in to use stuff like this, I'm a recent graduate of a school with a very well-loaded shop, but i'd be lucky if i could visit an old teacher of mine let alone use the facilities.  I have a 10" table saw with a small deck, a circular saw, a jig saw, and a 12" compound miter chop saw.

All are decent/good brands, just not ideal for this.   I think a table saw with a large deck and a panel saw are more suited for this.


Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 19 August 2008 at 5:00am
Where do you get your wood from? A lot of people on here get it cut complementarily or for a small fee at the shop.

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Away on extended leave.


Posted By: djtecthreat
Date Posted: 19 August 2008 at 5:28am
I get it from a local hardware store (which is part of a major chain).   They would have cut it for a fee, but they use a "rip" saw or circular saw.  And I feel I can do a better cut than them.

I was able to figure out the angles, but they lack accuracy.  

Also:  I chose the 186 because I'd like to use between 1 and 3 for small venues.   The 1850 doesn't do so great unless you have 4 of them in a stack.


Posted By: ceharden
Date Posted: 19 August 2008 at 11:04am
I've built some fairly complex cabs with just a handheld circular saw.  If you're not already doing it, when doing cuts which need to be accurate, clamp a guide onto the wood to keep the saw going straight.

Mitre angles depends on how good the markings on your circular saw are. Failing that, use some kind of angle measurer to set the mitre angle.

The 186's aren't too bad to build, at least you only have things sloping in one direction!  Try doing the same thing with a trapezoid cab!



Posted By: Jake_Fielder
Date Posted: 19 August 2008 at 11:47am
Once you have set the mitre cut a scrap piece of wood then meausure the angle of the cut, then if its out adjust accordingly. My dads circular saw only has 15, 30, 45 etc and not many markings to help you, and im just about managing.
 
Good luck


Posted By: Silas ))))))
Date Posted: 19 August 2008 at 11:54am
yer just stick with it and think logically, and dnt rush it, it took ages for me to build my first 2 186's. and i did it with less stuff than you, just make sure you double check all the mitres.
 
Good luck
 


Posted By: Hi_Varu
Date Posted: 19 August 2008 at 12:38pm
first time it's hard...



Posted By: Steak'n'ale
Date Posted: 19 August 2008 at 1:52pm
I built my first speakers using a hand saw, circular saw, coping saw, drill and file. They weren't too pretty but I made sure everything was airtight so once put together they actually sounded good.

The jig shown 2 posts above is something I'm using on my current build and has made my cuts much much better and they seem to be coming on ok.

The jig I use is a flat edge from a brand new sheet of 12mm glued and screwed to another piece of 12mm. You run the inside edge of the circular saw down the flat piece on top and it leaves a perfectly flat edge that you just put right on the cut line you want to make.

If you want loadsa good building tips then I'd say read Rog's guide and buy a Bill Fitz plan. Plenty of good advice from those 2 guys.


Posted By: odc04r
Date Posted: 19 August 2008 at 2:26pm
What you need to make to help yourself with right angle cuts is a jig to go with your circular saw. Find a thin bit of wood with a straight edge thats a bigger length than most of the cuts you want and glue/screw it onto another piece of wood that extends out further. Push your saw up against it and run it down and you will have made a decent self aligning jig. Hopefully this pic is easier to understand. You may need a jig for each side of your saw.



Mitre cuts are a bigger pain, need to just practise those and if in doubt cut angles slightly bigger than they should be and then slim them down.

You have a picked a pretty hefty project for your first build too, just get one right and dont worry about 3 or 4 yet! Once you have done one the others get easier.


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 19 August 2008 at 2:43pm
yeah first build is challenging alright. i read a lot on here before trying it. great tips in Rog's guide, and loads here in the forum. can't imagine doing it without a saw-board as described above. it was Dom's posts on these got me to make one up.

gettting mitres to turn out right, is a matter of a bit of practise, and getting to know your tools.

take your time with everything and don't be discouraged. even if you have to buy an extra sheet of wood to re cut something you got wrong, you'll still find use for the other bits, so they won't actually be wasted.

i've had loads of really frustrating moments, but it's really worth it for the first time you actually get them out somewhere and make some noise and watch people having a dance! stick with it... 8 186s is a big first project though.


Posted By: breakdabeat pete
Date Posted: 19 August 2008 at 2:46pm
i think if you are going for 8 a table saw is worth the money

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٩(̾●̮̮̃̾•̃̾)۶


Posted By: studio45
Date Posted: 19 August 2008 at 5:47pm
I tried to do mitres without a table saw the first time, tried belt sander, plane, 45 degree router bit, nothing does it properly. Now I've got a £40 eight inch Titan tablesaw from Screwfix that I've mounted into a larger table so i can cut full sheets. As long as I take care to completely ignore the markings on its angle gauge and use an angle measurer, and make test cuts, it works really well. Blade tends to vibrate if you haven't got the fence exactly parallel, which means sometimes the panel will be a mm or so out. But far superior to anything else and, like i said, £40.

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Studio45 - Repairs & Building Commotion Soundsystem -Mobile PA


Posted By: doober
Date Posted: 19 August 2008 at 8:35pm
I made a guide for a £30 130mm skillsaw. It takes a cut or two on a scrap piece to get the angle and length stop set right, then I can do as many identical cuts as I need.



Whatever cutting tool you use it'll take a few goes before you can get consistent accurate cuts.

I always draw out a full scale plan of the horns internals then cut the pieces to fit it. It's more important to get a good fit between all pieces then to be spot on with the plan.


Kieran

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Blahblahblah


Posted By: Saul
Date Posted: 20 August 2008 at 4:46pm
Look into buying a festool. They are guided hand saws similar looking to the pic above, but they are ridiculously accurate and give an ultra-clean cut too.


Posted By: djtecthreat
Date Posted: 20 August 2008 at 4:50pm
Thanks for all the tips guys.   I've tried to figure out a way to seal it up as best as possible, and I can use it around the house for low end.   Definitely not gig worthy.

In the mean time,  I talked to my uncle who used to be a cabinet builder and doesn't build things unless they're right.  His work is 100%, the only down side is-  he's about 400 miles away.     But it may be possible for him to build them and I finish them off.

-Jim


Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 20 August 2008 at 5:17pm
Festool make some pretty amazing saw/guide rail combos...

You could make him do the cutting and make some flat packs... If he is a cabinet maker, it is worth requesting rebating (cutting grooves) in the two side panels so the rest just slide in.

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Away on extended leave.


Posted By: Caeraphym
Date Posted: 20 August 2008 at 5:44pm
Measure twice cut once innit.


Posted By: odc04r
Date Posted: 20 August 2008 at 6:36pm
Originally posted by djtecthreat djtecthreat wrote:

Thanks for all the tips guys.   I've tried to figure out a way to seal it up as best as possible, and I can use it around the house for low end.   Definitely not gig worthy.

In the mean time,  I talked to my uncle who used to be a cabinet builder and doesn't build things unless they're right.  His work is 100%, the only down side is-  he's about 400 miles away.     But it may be possible for him to build them and I finish them off.

-Jim


Maybe you could have a trip up for a few days, pay him for the materials and buy a few beers (or whatever his vice is) and go about putting one together or at least cutting all the pieces and fitting them for accuracy before assembling back home.

Or perhaps even just try a smaller one off design to get more tips from someone who knows whats what.


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 21 August 2008 at 2:29am
festool saw is definitely on my shopping list. unfortunately, it's a fair way down it..


Posted By: djtecthreat
Date Posted: 25 August 2008 at 11:22pm
Well, I got anxious and I threw the sub together quickly and left out the bottom bracing, just so I could hear the potential.  Then I just put an EAW 18" i had laying around in there, and screwed a piece of wood over the opening with some gasket foam.

My little brother wanted to sit in it.   So heres that picture.

Sorry for the camera-phone picture.

I'm INCREDIBLY impressed by this sub even with the 100's of leaks, wrong angles, wrong sub woofer, and under-powered (500 QSC watts).    It really punishes.


Maybe if I can just get a grasp on the wood-working I can make some really impressive low end with this design. 


Posted By: odc04r
Date Posted: 26 August 2008 at 1:36pm
That's the spirit. Glad to see you got it finished regardless.

A gluegun is very good for sealing minor leaks btw.


Posted By: MR-FIZZLE-89
Date Posted: 10 March 2013 at 6:32pm
Originally posted by Caeraphym Caeraphym wrote:

Measure twice cut once innit.

Thumbs Up


Posted By: Trinidad_12
Date Posted: 11 March 2013 at 2:18pm

I've built a few of Rogs plans, the X15, X1, X10's but I knew going into the 186 Horn that it was going to be the most difficult box I'd ever built in my 15 years of wood working. So I learned my lesson trying to just use a circular saw; my first 186 came out with really bad angles and uneven sides. But it sounds great overall. For the second build I had to get a table saw, and I followed someone elses guidance on the forum and used the angles off the 1850 Horn. So far they are working for my 186, and I can pre-cut the internal and outer folds just using the angles provided and lengths.

Going into my 3rd horn, I gotta second that these things take longer than you think, so getting in a hurry probably won't yield very good results. But even with a table saw, I think a panel saw would make my horns even better, and I think another key factor is the quality of the blade. My buddies inexpensive craftsman 10" 15 amp, cuts through the 18mm birch ply like butter, I love it. But without a guide or panel saw, keeping the bigger cuts from being wavy is tough.

I think your next horn is gonna be better, and the one after, even more djtecthreat.




Posted By: Dub Specialist
Date Posted: 11 March 2013 at 3:13pm
have you got guide rails?

if not get some there do a v/good job i sold my plunge saw and rails a while ago will regret now, but i did quite a few cuts with great results spot on when the mitre's where put together..re-modded some scoops cut the top tottaly off the cabs to he make them the height of my orther boxes put more internal braces if them, as there were built 20years + ago ect ect..

guide rails to way to go..good luck in your builds man.Thumbs Up


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treat all creation with respect. For music is sound...sound is vibration...vibration is energy... and energy begets life. Therein lies my passion! MUSIC IS LIFE


Posted By: ClackS02
Date Posted: 19 March 2013 at 2:10pm
We all start off c**p mate!

When i first started building, most of mine were... bodges! 

But you learn :) and you never stop learning.

Finish it! and see what happens ? you can make adjustments? you can start again ? :)

Let us know how it goes !!! and good luck



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