Since the introduction of the Punisher horn Ciare has developed a new model 12.00SW driver with even more powerhandling than the 2004 model. But this is at the expense of extra depth of the chassis. When mounting the 2005 model in the Punisher there is very little clearance behind the magnet vent.

With a few days there will be an new set of plans available on www.speakerstore.nl for the new Punisher II design which is designed for the Caire 12.00SW 2005 version.

Best regards,

Walt

that's just great

awaiting plans

Well, I think this was something I actually had to do. The Ciare 12.00SW 2004 version fits in the Punisher I quite well. But the 2005 version has a deeper frame so that way it became a very tight fit with little room behind the magnet vent.

The Punisher II has solved this problem. Also I changed a few other small things such as an extra reinforcement panel in the backchamber nose.

Best regards,

Walt

will there be some CAD plans to help us cut the Plywood easier, and with more precision?

how many people would a system with 2 punisher + 1 X-tro / side cover?

Don't forget to take into account the grill & foam that must fit onto the front of the cabinet, because the first plans didn't.

Hello,

In the new plans for the Punisher I again did not plan for a grill and foam. I wanted to keep the outer dimensions of the Punisher the same. In fact the changes to the Punisher I are small. They are detail improvements needed for the Ciare model 2005 driver.

A system with 2x Punisher + 1x X-tro would cover up to 400-500 people. But that all depend on how loud you need the music to be.

For the 2005 driver mounted in the Punisher I still think 1500W is about as optimal as it can get. It should be enough to really move the Ciare cone. If you put in even more power most of that will turn into heat. Just as with the LAB-horn LAB-12 drivers there comes a point where they simply just start to fall apart.

Best regards,

Walt

I already know that, but I was thinking of other people who will only find that out when thay have assembled the box

I am not mentally challenged, and I have the papers to proove it

might have problems on the long term dough, because of sustained exposure to extreme amounts of bass  => Braindamage

Plans for Punisher II are ready:

http://www.speakerstore.nl/index.php?l=nl&pg=11&c=21 - http://www.speakerstore.nl/index.php?l=nl&pg=11&c=21

Best regards,

Walt

thanks Walt, I have finished 2 punishers already and plan to start building 2 more tomorrow. Thank you for your hard work on the punisher. Its is an awsome horn and i cant wait to hear my stack of 4 once finished :)

a.j

Hello Efreak,

The effect of two punishers stacked compared to a single one is large. Also going from 2 to 4 is a big difference. You really notice the coupling effect.

Please use the new set of construction drawings as can be found at the http://www.speakerstore.nl - www.speakerstore.nl  site. I don't know if you are using Ciare 2005 or 2004 driver but with an eye on the future (if you might ever need to install a new driver) it would be wise to build the Punisher II version. Outer dimensions are all the same. There is some difference in horn mouth however so you cabinets will look a bit different. Punisher II will allow for a somewhat better cooling of the Ciare driver due to a little more free space behind the magnet vent.

The 2004 12.00SW version has a 4 spoke basket

The 2005 12.00SW version has a 8 spoke basket

Pictures of both driver can be seen on the speakerstore site.

Best regards,

Walt

Yes i have the 2005 model Ciare. I built the first 2 punishers from the original Punisher design therefore i may also build the next 2 from the same design so they will be the same, when stacked in 4. I also have the Cad plans for the first design which makes the build easy. Maybe i will build 4 more punisher II as soon as the cad plans become available!!

When i stack my first 2 punisher horns together they sound very nice. This is why i must build another 2.

Thank you for the picture! Very nice to hear you are happy with the design.

You are using front loaded cabinets for the mid/high section. In that case it is best to delay these top cabinet with 2.3 metres so that the sound from the Punisher and tops arrives at your ear at the same time. In that case the efficiency in the crossover range is optimal.

I am working on a cut list for all panels of the Punisher II. That should be helpful in the construction proces. What do you mean with CAD plans? The construction plans at:

http://www.speakerstore.nl/index.php?l=en&pg=11&p=sp&c=21&prjID - http://www.speakerstore.nl/index.php?l=en&pg=11&p=sp &c=21&prjID =

are already changed. These are the plans for the Punisher II.

Best regards,

Walt

Contour wrote: What do you mean with CAD plans

I think he made CAD plans that help him cut every panel to the ideal dimension like those on the selenium website.

Contour wrote: Thank you for the picture! Very nice to hear you are happy with the design. You are using front loaded cabinets for the mid/high section. In that case it is best to delay these top cabinet with 2.3 metres so that the sound from the Punisher and tops arrives at your ear at the same time. In that case the efficiency in the crossover range is optimal. I am working on a cut list for all panels of the Punisher II. That should be helpful in the construction proces. What do you mean with CAD plans? The construction plans at: http://www.speakerstore.nl/index.php?l=en&pg=11&p=sp&c=21&prjID - http://www.speakerstore.nl/index.php?l=en&pg=11&p=sp &c=21&prjID = are already changed. These are the plans for the Punisher II. Best regards, Walt

Thank you for your kind words and help Walt. By cad i mean a cut/angle for each board which is really helpfull. If you will have a cut sheet for the punishers II then i will wait and only cut my sides, top & bottom, and baffle for now just to have some of the boards ready since they will remain the same.

Also i will purchase a driverack soon to handle the delay as you speak of..

have you ever used the 8 ohm version of the ciare driver or only the 4 ohm? I don't have T/S for the 4 ohm version, are they the same except, re, le, Bl

What I'm triyng to say is: will the 8 ohm driver sound the same as the 4 ohm one?

I don't know which one I can get my hands on, here in Romania (if I can)

Nexus_3 wrote: have you ever used the 8 ohm version of the ciare driver or only the 4 ohm? I don't have T/S for the 4 ohm version, are they the same except, re, le, Bl What I'm triyng to say is: will the 8 ohm driver sound the same as the 4 ohm one? I don't know which one I can get my hands on, here in Romania (if I can)

I bet,that theres no audible difference. Be aware that BL depends on Re,so it will appear different,but it must be the same because the horn is exactly the same,and BL affects the horn alot.

Nexus_3 wrote: I am aware of certain parameters being automaticly different , are they the same except, re, le, Bl

Obviously Re and Le are different(double or half),but that matters little to the horn. I cant remember how BL changes with differing impedence of voice coil...simply because the drivers I see are generally one or the other

You can find the T/S for the 4 ohm version over here:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~hofmanpa/index.html - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hofmanpa/index.html

Unfortunatly this site doesn't allow for direct linking so you have to look in the speaker section yourself.

There will be very small changes in response but you can say both 4 and 8 ohm version give about the same result. So far I have only heard the 4 ohm version.

Best regards,

Walt

BL is a red herring.

The correct formula for comparing woofer drive force is BL^2/Re

The Punisher II cutsheet is ready, you can find it as a Word document at:

http://www.speakerstore.nl - www.speakerstore.nl

ATTENTION: the measurement on panel 9 should be 27.47cm!

Best regards,

Walt

"or BL/sqrt(Re) (depending on whom you read) "

Gives the same relative ranking, but my method uses fewer keystrokes and can be used with a four function calculator.

Whatever you're comfortable with.