Which cabs?
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Topic: Which cabs?
Posted By: Createk
Subject: Which cabs?
Date Posted: 16 October 2008 at 2:58pm
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Hi guys, me and my friends have a sound system together, we have 4 TSE 118 and 4 TSE 112 which we are running from QSCs. We also have 2W-bins 2 mids 2tops .... we bought those speakers from e-bay and it was called "Eliminator PA System" ... I once looked into them and threre are some Vietnamese-companie speakers. The don't perform nearly as good as the Turbos but the are ok. We also run them of the QSCs because we don't have any more amps to run them off. Now we decided to build our own speakers, but after looking on this site and many more for months now I'm despaired! There are so many speakers to go, USB ,HD15, 1850,186, X1 I know what we will build for Mid-Hi Section the MT121 looks very good and i read it perfomes very good. My friends want to build the X1... they say they want to crawl into the bass cellar! I think the X1 is a good decision because the TSE118 don't give the subbass we often need in our musik, and I saw a lot of pictures here on the site with X1s +HD15 together . And I want to build an X1 since I saw the youtube video from the X1!. So what would fit better a USB or HD15 or maybe an 1850 instead of X1. I thought it would be easier to build USBs rather than HD15s but thats not very important for the decision. Maybe some of you can help me , I never really heard a USB or a HD15, maybe on a party but at that time I wasn't intrested in bass bins, only in the bass :-) . I hope some of you share their experience with me. :) ------------- From the first moment on I was cought by music.From then on it was my live my love. |
Replies:
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 16 October 2008 at 3:32pm
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keep the TSE112s and TSE118s. The TSE112s should match the MT112s. The TSE118s are like single USBs. Put 4 X1s under the TSE118s. When you want to expand, just buy more TSE112s and build more TSE118s and X1s. Invest in better amps and processing. Which QSCs do you have? Is your W system a real EV system or a rip-off? ------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: Createk
Date Posted: 16 October 2008 at 3:48pm
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QSCs are1x MX 2000 ,2x MX 1500,1x MX 3000a Build more TSE118 ? I thought plans for commercial bins are quite hard to find, and illegal to have :) When I could get plans for TSE118s I would build them...they have a great sound. I was very impressed when i recognized my voice was shaking 10 meters away from the speakers at our last outdoor party. To the W- System maybe its a ripoff but I saw another original Eliminator-Pa system and it looks exactly the same (from outside) , I don't know how it looks inside (I forgoz) but the speakers in mine are some Vietnamese low budget drivers, maybe the guy from ebay took out he EV-Speakers and used them for other projects. Is there a frequency spektrum analization from the USB some where? But I think I saw one in the forum. We don't have that much money so which amps perform well at a good price? Or which amps would you prefer. Here a picture: With 1mid cab missing  ANd another: ------------- From the first moment on I was cought by music.From then on it was my live my love. |
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 16 October 2008 at 4:03pm
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Just open up one and copy the insides. Don't release the plans, that's rude. But it makes more sense than building other bins. Your amps are fine - QSC MX series are among my favorite - they are top quality and regarded by a lot on this forum. get rid of the W system in some way - the key in horn systems is to have the same bin in each frequency band (delays, etc) What processing do you use? ------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: Createk
Date Posted: 16 October 2008 at 4:05pm
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Just a BSS FDS 360 Frequency Crossover/Limiter And when I copied the TSE118 .. which driver should I put in... I opened it once because my cat ripped off the dust cap from one and I remeber that there is no name on the TSE118 drivers... I think because of copying issues MAybe I sell the Eliminator-System on ebay :) ------------- From the first moment on I was cought by music.From then on it was my live my love. |
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 16 October 2008 at 4:08pm
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What cards do you have in? You'll need a few more bits of gear as well to set up properly, like a delays unit, and eq. Sounds like your system will benefit from weeding and better setup first, then expansion. PS - are all your turbo drivers fine? There are some other replacements. ------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: Createk
Date Posted: 16 October 2008 at 4:10pm
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We want to buy an Equalizer... i don't remember the name but thats what we wanted to do anyways. Nothing else in the rack And all the Turbos are fine. A delay unit ! I always read about that but never thought of it .... thanks for the idea :) ! ------------- From the first moment on I was cought by music.From then on it was my live my love. |
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 16 October 2008 at 4:31pm
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What cards do you have in the FDS? I mean what XO points have you got? You need a delay in all horn systems - think about it - the length of the horn means that you want all the pressure waves to exit the front at the same time. ------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: Createk
Date Posted: 16 October 2008 at 4:39pm
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I actually dont know which Card is in there because we bought the Turbosounds+QSCs+Crossover from a band. But the cross over points sound right enough for my ears. I were looking for a Switch or something to change frequencies but there is no such switch. Only +/- 6 db knob and polarity, mute switches. Also on the back side there are the limiter switches. Thats all i can tell right now. I know thats not the professional way... but I'm working (for) on it, as our budget is now quite small maybe in 3-5 months we will be able to buy a new Crossover, Equalizer,Delay unit and so on. ------------- From the first moment on I was cought by music.From then on it was my live my love. |
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 16 October 2008 at 4:52pm
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What is your budget?
Setting the right xo frequencies is important. It is likely that they will be correct since they came from a band who will have got it set up for them - but you will need an upgrade to accomodate another frequency range that the x1s will supply in quantity. ------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: Createk
Date Posted: 16 October 2008 at 5:00pm
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At the moment i have 400 € per month but in april i start working an then it will be 3 times more then i have the possibility to buy some stuff and my friends are just finishing school this or next year or don't get paied enough :). I thought about buying a new Crossover / Equalizer / Limiter MAybe an all in 1 solution. And a frequency crossover where i can change every channels frequency range and level would be great to have. A friend of mine told me about a Behringer Crossover/Limiter/Equalizer all in one device. Is it right that for my crossover i would need a new "crossover card" with diffrent Crossover points. OR more.... actually its a 2way- stero / 3-4 way -mono crossover... How do I know which card is in the crossover? Do I have to open the " small" pannel on top? ------------- From the first moment on I was cought by music.From then on it was my live my love. |
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 16 October 2008 at 5:20pm
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Check this site for your FDS340 needs. http://www.bssaudio.com/downloads_archived.php - http://www.bssaudio.com/downloads_archived.php Before I recommend anything - are you going to eventually want two big stacks and run in stereo? EDIT: That Berry unit you found out about is a DCX2496. It's an LMS - loudspeaker management system - that incorporates a 2 in 6 out crossover, a parametric eq, and a set of delays and limiters. If you want to go down this route, BSS make some suitable units as well (FDS-366, FDS-336), and so do dbx (DR260). The Berry is considered the king in it's price region. You'd still want a dual 30 graphic EQ with it, as with all other LMSs. With your budget I'd go for used. What graphic eqs do you find often near you? ------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: Createk
Date Posted: 16 October 2008 at 5:29pm
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No , we play Tekno and there we always just stack everything together
to a Cab-Wall, because the people stand directly in front of the
speakers to dance. So we can run the X-Over also Mono. Thx for the site ! Back to the TSE118, how do I know which driver fits best , has nearly the same parameters as the original TSE118 speaker, as there is no name i can't search for the speaker on the web. I opened the pannel and there are 3 cards 250Hzwith a Response of 24 and 6 dB // a 3K7-5k (Response Turbo what ever that means but the TSE112 have a knob at the back to adjust dB meters for the passive X-Over in them) and the third card is same as the first 250Hz... so i just need another card for the X1 to run them like I should ------------- From the first moment on I was cought by music.From then on it was my live my love. |
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 16 October 2008 at 5:35pm
Turbosound use OEM units from other manufacturers which they rename - in your case, i think it'd be LS1802 drivers. Quoting Robbo: Ryan--We sell ours for �650 per box including foams and a fresh coat of paint or �600 each without the foams---Make sure that they are fitted with the correct Turbosound( PD) LS 1802 drivers and not other PD drivers or Fanes as the LS 1802 driver only has a 3" voive coil and this is what gives this cabinet its very fast punchy sound that it is famous for---we have tried many drivers over the years in these boxes and they never sound as good as the original drivers(I have a mint pair of LS 1802 drivers for �125 each if you need any)--pic above is wrong--its a TSW218 and the pic posted by Ian(JBL man) is the right one---hope this helps you--cheers--John. Djdarch---Sorry single TSE118 cabinets are like rocking horse sh-t as everybody wants to buy a single one to copy---just sold the LS1802 drivers to someone on here as well, so you are not having much luck--keep looking on Ebay as single Turbosound cabinets do come up on a regular basis--usually due to odd numbers being fitted in installs. It is important to know that Robbo does not have those specific drivers for sale anymore, but they do turn up. However some other members may have some for bargain prices, or he may have new stock. I'm not aware of any other direct replacement drivers. ------------- Away on extended leave. |
Createk wrote:Posted By: Createk
Date Posted: 16 October 2008 at 5:49pm
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Ok so when I want to copy my TSE118 I have to find someone who can sell me LS1802 driver. Then I think it would be better to build another cabinet as I will build much more cabs in the future and it would be better to get the driver from a shop than maybe waiting if someone hopefully has drivers left. So what would fit the best to the 4 TSE 118 USB or HD15, i recognized that the HD15 are smaller , do the USB bins play in the same range of the TSE118, HD15 or is there any great difference, also I looked for a Shop to sell the recommended USB drivers and I only found 1 and there the driver costs 380 each and they are sold out. While the HD15 recommended driver costs i don't know exactly but 280 or so. I looked for some cards for the X-Over but I couldn't find anything only the FDS.334T 2Inputs -4 Outputs its a X-OVer, Limiter and delay unit and a 32-Band EQ ------------- From the first moment on I was cought by music.From then on it was my live my love. |
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 16 October 2008 at 6:04pm
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The golden rule is to have one type of each bin in each frequency range. So if you decide on another bin, you'd ebay your TSE-118. I believe simo69 has some LS1802s for 100 quid each? You could also try other drivers. The main thing is to get the same horn - as you will have to set delays. http://www.speakerplans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12623 - http://www.speakerplans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12623 Only other 3" VCs I've seen around on 18s are on the 18sound 18ND930...but i don;t know the T/S of the LS1802s. ------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: Createk
Date Posted: 16 October 2008 at 6:13pm
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I think I go the way of building new speakers but there is still the question which kickbass cabinet to take HD15s or USBs ? Whats best for Tekno... we need good punchy kickbass. And X1s we need to and after that some TSE112. ANd first... :) a crossover/EQ/delay unit maybe the FDS.334T is good maybe someone has experiences with this device to share?! ------------- From the first moment on I was cought by music.From then on it was my live my love. |
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 16 October 2008 at 6:32pm
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TSE118 is punchy kick bass and one of the highly regarded ones. All the ones you see on this site came after (all these BP horns). If you for no apparent reason are really really set on building some replacements for them...look at the Martin 215 and ES18 as other options. 4xTSE112 is really a lot - much more than enough for what you've got. I'd go for a 2 in 6 out so you could run mids in stereo while keeping sub and kick in mono. Remember the graphic that you'll also be wanting. Look out for Rane, Klark Teknik, and other of the big names on these. ------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: Createk
Date Posted: 16 October 2008 at 6:40pm
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Why not USB ,HD15 ? , ist MArtin 215 the all known "MArtin-BIn" ------------- From the first moment on I was cought by music.From then on it was my live my love. |
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 16 October 2008 at 6:45pm
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Just needed to cast the net wider. What's wrong with the Martin bins? Copied from a previous post of mine: 3 Basic types - straight(ish), band pass horn, W-Bin and ordinary folded. Hear a few and decide which sound you like. HD215s, USB/ES18 (Bigger HD15s) are bandpass horns. martin 215 (mk whatever), xtro kick section and some selenium bins are straightish horns. Altec Voice of the Theatre ported straight horns are very hi-fi. keep in mind straight horns sound better higher up. W-Bins include the Eminence and EV eliminator, and can be ported or sealed. Not good up high. And lastly there are the normal folded horns (some selenium designs come to mind). ------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: Createk
Date Posted: 16 October 2008 at 7:01pm
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I heard A sound system with 8 Martin Bins but either they didn'T turn up or had false settings but the bass was all other than punchy more lush but 8 go quite deep. X-Tro looks very nice but I can'T afford, 1 would cost me 900€ and thats a bit too much. How about the USB do they go higher than the HD15s Are there frequency spektrum diagrams available for USB,ES18 ------------- From the first moment on I was cought by music.From then on it was my live my love. |
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 16 October 2008 at 7:39pm
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USB and ES18 are of the same breed - ES18 goes higher, USB goes lower. You know what, you could make more TSE118s and load them with other drivers. Probably be very similar to the above two. It would also be a lot more productive as you could utilise your 4 TSE118s with the new cabs you build. What drivers can you get over in Austria? ------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: Createk
Date Posted: 16 October 2008 at 7:44pm
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When the shipment isn't to expensive everything up to the UK also amerika but god knows how long shipments from the uk or even amerika take down to us... ..and when the shipment is expensive I'll just buy a lot of speakers instead of single ones. But I think I can get everything maybe on ebay and so on... Are there other drivers than the LS1802 that fit in a TSE118. Is the LS1802 in any way available than from private sellers? ------------- From the first moment on I was cought by music.From then on it was my live my love. |
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 16 October 2008 at 7:57pm
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You'd have to contact Turbo but I don't think that they have anymore. I think you should ask around on the forum actually. Try this shop: http://www.speakerstore.nl/index.php?pg=4 - http://www.speakerstore.nl/index.php?pg=4 Browsing through, the only 3" VCs I see (yes, i do realsie that isn't the best parameter) in 18" are two 18sounds and a Ciare. Looking at the T/S, I prefer the Ciare - http://www.speakerstore.nl/index.php?pg=26&l=&productID=507 - http://www.speakerstore.nl/index.php?pg=26&l=&productID=507 - but anybody's guess is as good as mine. ------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: Createk
Date Posted: 16 October 2008 at 8:02pm
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Has anyone tried it, how does it sound? Will it affect the sound or will it stay nearly the same ------------- From the first moment on I was cought by music.From then on it was my live my love. |
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 16 October 2008 at 8:10pm
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I don't think any driver will work exactly the same for obvious reasons. Someone who's tried it should be able to comment definitively. However, when you weigh up your two options - 1) Build new kick bins with new drivers 2) Build more TSE118s with different (or the same) drivers The problem arises of cost effectiveness. If you want to build 100 bins then of course new bins are the obvious choice. If you want to expand to 8 - then the compromises are worth it imo. ------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: Createk
Date Posted: 16 October 2008 at 8:22pm
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Wouldn't it be an idea to just build other bins than the TSE 118 and
get the 2-6 way crossover/delay device and adjust the delays so that
the 4 TSE 118 play their waves so Amplitudes can summate. It'S just an idea , and when you said the TS parameter isn't the best did you ment not good or acceptable. And when I build new bins there are still the 4 options HD215,USB,ES18(maybe ES218 because the cabs look rather small),or Martins How deep do USB(s) play efficient? Thank you for the information, 1 day and my problems are solved and only options remain! Thanks ------------- From the first moment on I was cought by music.From then on it was my live my love. |
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 16 October 2008 at 9:34pm
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When I said the parameter isn't the best - I was referring to my crude filter of only comparing 18s with 3" VCs. Even if you do that it still is better to have more TSE118s - when you open them, you'll see that they are almost identical to most BPHs of the sort. The depth of a stack of USBs depends on how many you have. Now - what do people use in their TSE-118s? ------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: Createk
Date Posted: 16 October 2008 at 10:14pm
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When my cat ripped off that dustcap I opened one of the TSE118s and the look like HD15 on the inside only other dimensions. First time I realized how much weight a 18" driver can have. But I think I'll go for USB horns because I found some cheap of the Celestion FTR18-4080F speakers on the net. I think of 2 X1 (the other version, which are as broad as USBs,HD215s) on the ground with 3 USBs per X1 on top and 2 MT121.
------------- From the first moment on I was cought by music.From then on it was my live my love. |