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Modified 186 horn build pics - more added 10/06/09

Printed From: Speakerplans.com
Category: Plans
Forum Name: 1850 and 186 horns
Forum Description: Discussion / Questions about the 1850 and 186 horns
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=21015
Printed Date: 25 February 2024 at 7:45am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.06 - https://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Modified 186 horn build pics - more added 10/06/09
Posted By: Wrighty
Subject: Modified 186 horn build pics - more added 10/06/09
Date Posted: 04 November 2008 at 4:42pm
Built these back in May/June - never got round to uploading pics and I still haven't fitted metal bar handles or painted them... Pics of the rig at the gig can be seen here:

http://www.speakerplans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2179&PN=381 - http://www.speakerplans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2179&PN=381










































































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ALL YOUR BASS ARE BELONG TO US.



Replies:
Posted By: breakdabeat pete
Date Posted: 04 November 2008 at 5:02pm
nicely done!
the jig on the table saw is class


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٩(̾●̮̮̃̾•̃̾)۶


Posted By: Wrighty
Date Posted: 04 November 2008 at 5:13pm
Haha, glad you like the jig :) I've seen proper tenoning jigs before (to get angles >45 degrees) on the New Yankee Workshop, but I managed fine by clamping the workpiece to a lump of 4x2 and running that along the fence. Unfortunately the blade guard and riving knife have to be removed for it to be used so you need to watch your fingers...


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ALL YOUR BASS ARE BELONG TO US.


Posted By: rich_gale
Date Posted: 04 November 2008 at 8:05pm
very clean and tidy build.  lovely job


Posted By: tommysb
Date Posted: 04 November 2008 at 8:11pm
Looks great! Loaded with 18sound drivers? How do they sound? How were they modified?

Tom


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 04 November 2008 at 8:25pm
i must get a load of gasket tape. lovely build.


Posted By: Wrighty
Date Posted: 04 November 2008 at 8:37pm
Thanks for the comments Smile

Yeah, Eighteensound 18LW1400. Sounded great for the live bands we had and CDs I played through it between acts.

EDIT: A mate of mine has just bought 4 Looneys, so we'll be doing an A-B between his and mine at some point...

Modifications:

- Made them 100mm narrower so I can fit 4 in my store.
- Chopped the bottom corner off at the back (to fit wheels on to).
- Different brace (reflects the last 2 sections of the horn and has cross braces too).

Gasket tape was from CPC and not expensive.

One day I'll get round to finishing them off and post the pics when I do! Need to make some jigs for routing out the sides for the metal bar handles before I can get them painted up though. Not rocket science but the weather isn't exactly brilliant for working outside at the moment and I'm trying not to make too much more mess in the garage!


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ALL YOUR BASS ARE BELONG TO US.


Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 05 November 2008 at 12:53pm
Originally posted by rich_gale rich_gale wrote:

very clean and tidy build.  lovely job
 
Most definately!
 


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**Heavy Weight-Line**
A home without books is like a body with no soul.


Posted By: BEWProductions
Date Posted: 05 January 2009 at 5:57pm
I noticed the insulation you loaded in the driver chamber. I have four of the 186s that I had made. They sound good but I feel they could sound better. Is it a common thing to load the chamber with wadding on horns? I dont think ive ever seen this on them before.


Posted By: Wrighty
Date Posted: 05 January 2009 at 6:26pm
Well, I was finishing them in a rush and couldn't find a quick answer as to whether they should have wadding in or not, so I went with. Later, I read some discussions about Looney Bins (which are a very similar design to the 186/1850) which said they don't have wadding in.

I'm planning to take the wadding out of a pair and A/B them, but I suspect I'll end up taking it out, as that's how they're supposed to be.

What drivers have you loaded yours with?


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ALL YOUR BASS ARE BELONG TO US.


Posted By: BEWProductions
Date Posted: 05 January 2009 at 7:10pm
Mine are loaded with RCF L18 P300s. Decent drivers and Ive started building some 2X18" reflex bins that so I can pull them from the horns and put them in the reflex cabs.


Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 05 January 2009 at 8:15pm
Originally posted by Wrighty Wrighty wrote:


Modifications:

- Made them 100mm narrower so I can fit 4 in my store.


You do know, you have now reduced the chamber size and Horn mouth.Shocked

Was hoping "modified" meant slightly deeper, slightly taller.


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"Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy".


Posted By: Wrighty
Date Posted: 05 January 2009 at 9:47pm
Yes, I realise that. There are some plots on here somewhere which I did at the design stage, showing that the 18LW1400 in the narrow cab is at least as good as the PD186 in the full width cab, with added benefits such as greater Xmax and Xmech.

I left the bottom closing piece out of the rear chamber to make up for the loss of volume there - this gave the best plot in Hornresp.

If you look at the BL factors of the 18LW1400, PD186 and PD1850, the 18LW1400 sits somewhere in between the PDs, hence the optimum rear chamber size being somewhere between the 186 horn and the 1850 horn. That's my understanding of it anyway!

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ALL YOUR BASS ARE BELONG TO US.


Posted By: Wrighty
Date Posted: 06 January 2009 at 2:11pm
Ok, plots here. Standard 636mm wide 186 horn, loaded with PD186 in grey. My 536mm wide 186 horn without closing piece in rear chamber, loaded with Eighteen Sound 18LW1400 in black. One cab, half space, 1w@1m.



4 cabs (again, 636mm PD186 in grey, 536mm 18LW1400 in black):




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ALL YOUR BASS ARE BELONG TO US.


Posted By: imageoven
Date Posted: 06 January 2009 at 3:46pm
I like the handles on the hatch, combined with the wheels - wish I'd done it like that on my 1850's. good work.


Posted By: Wrighty
Date Posted: 06 January 2009 at 3:49pm
Yeah, I borrowed that idea from EV MTL-1X bins which I used to work with on a regular basis. Saves store and van space, not having 4 castors sticking out the back of each bin!

Still not got round to putting the metal bar handles in, doing final sand and painting them - garage is now full of stuff again and the weather has been too wet and/or cold :(


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ALL YOUR BASS ARE BELONG TO US.


Posted By: FUBARD303
Date Posted: 19 January 2009 at 2:40pm
Mr novice here. Im here cause I searched for the driver your using. Stupid question possibly but why would you put these in horns when you can get +20spl in dual reflex boxes? Also have you seen the modular horn plans on speakerstore.nl? Same guys that designed punnisher made a horn for the 18sound. Looks interesting.

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"Always look on the bright side of life" -Brian


Posted By: Wrighty
Date Posted: 19 January 2009 at 2:58pm
Erm, ok. Those plots are for 1W @ 1m. So that driver in that folded horn enclosure will produce 105dB with 1W input power @ 1m distance. That driver in a single reflex box will produce 98dB with 1W input power @ 1m distance, so a double reflex enclosure will produce about 101dB @ 1W @ 1m.

If we're talking about maximum continuous power (which I suspect you are), the horn loaded enclosure will produce about 136dB @ 1400W @ 1m, whereas the reflex will be about 128dB @ 1400W @ 1m.


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ALL YOUR BASS ARE BELONG TO US.


Posted By: FUBARD303
Date Posted: 20 January 2009 at 3:59pm
Ops, new guy mistake. I was comlaring your 1w to my 1400w, Like I said...

Admirable handywork though, a true craftsman indeed. Hope mine should turn out half as nicely.

So... If I were to build some of my own (without storage space restricions) would you still reccomend the -100mm ?

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"Always look on the bright side of life" -Brian


Posted By: Wrighty
Date Posted: 20 January 2009 at 4:43pm
Build them to the plan - the simulations are very similar.

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ALL YOUR BASS ARE BELONG TO US.


Posted By: mhtplsh
Date Posted: 21 May 2009 at 5:14am
Originally posted by Wrighty Wrighty wrote:

Ok, plots here. Standard 636mm wide 186 horn, loaded with PD186 in grey. My 536mm wide 186 horn without closing piece in rear chamber, loaded with Eighteen Sound 18LW1400 in black. One cab, half space, 1w@1m.



4 cabs (again, 636mm PD186 in grey, 536mm 18LW1400 in black):




Can u post picture of the input parameter window of Hornresp of the above graphs?


Posted By: Wrighty
Date Posted: 21 May 2009 at 10:10am
PD186, standard 636mm wide 186 horn:


18LW1400, modified 536mm wide 186 horn:



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ALL YOUR BASS ARE BELONG TO US.


Posted By: breakdabeat pete
Date Posted: 21 May 2009 at 10:15am
been looking for the 186 input param for ages
nice one


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٩(̾●̮̮̃̾•̃̾)۶


Posted By: Wrighty
Date Posted: 25 May 2009 at 10:56pm
I finally got round to making a couple of jigs for the handle cutout and rebate, to use with a 12.5mm cutter and 30mm collar on my DeWalt router. Here are some pics...

Handle cutout jig:




Used router just to skim the surface, giving me a guide for the next step:


Cut out roughly with jigsaw, leaving about 2-3mm inside the router mark, for speed and to prolong life of router bit (top tip from Insomnia, I think):


Edges cleaned up with router:




Jig number 1 removed, jig number 2 (for rebate) fixed in its place:


Rebated to a depth of 5mm to allow for thickness of handle + screwheads:


Jig removed and edges cleaned up with a bit of sandpaper:


Handle placed in rebate:


2 handles in place (and a lot of sawdust):


Finished for the day - 2 cabs with 4 handles in each. Just the other 2 to do now!



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ALL YOUR BASS ARE BELONG TO US.


Posted By: jethrocker
Date Posted: 26 May 2009 at 12:55am
Nice work :) These sort of step by step picture guides are great stuff for the newbiesThumbs Up


Posted By: jaya000
Date Posted: 27 May 2009 at 5:37am

I want to know how u hv calculated S1?

The S1 for 636 wide box : 11cms x 60cms = 660 sq.cms.

The S1 for 536 wide box : 11 cms. x 50cms = 550 sq.cms.

 


Posted By: Wrighty
Date Posted: 27 May 2009 at 10:35am
It depends where you take the throat to be. There was a lot of debate on it at the time and I went with it being at the edge of the driver nearest to the throat, so take the cross sectional area at that point.

All handles routed in these bins now, plus the hi-mid cabs. Put the final bits of filler in yesterday but the weather has taken a turn for the worse, so back at work today... A quick sand, wipe off and then it's Aldcroft time :D


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ALL YOUR BASS ARE BELONG TO US.


Posted By: pfly
Date Posted: 31 May 2009 at 1:38pm
I discovered that the throat in this kind of horn throat arrangment is somewhere between the edge and dust cap of the cone. If the speaker baffle and the opposing baffle are taken into consideration and speaker & its cutout are ignored, the throat just keeps expanding, but if you take the air volume in the cutout and in the cone into consideration, there will be a point where throat chamber is at its biggest (somewhere around the middle of the cone), and when you  move towards the horn, closer the cone's edge, the area starts to get smaller until you hit the point where it starts to get bigger again because the cone area starts to play smaller role and the speaker baffle starts to take over...


Posted By: Wrighty
Date Posted: 10 June 2009 at 8:28pm
Ok, yet more pics...

Hi-mids before painting. 8PE21 and DE250, both horn loaded. These sit above direct radiating single 15" cabs, which in turn sit on a pair of the 186 horns.
















Access panel during painting.


18LW1400 installed. I know you can see the dimples where the filler is... Unfortunately it all sank when I put the paint on. Won't be using that filler again!!












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ALL YOUR BASS ARE BELONG TO US.


Posted By: jethrocker
Date Posted: 10 June 2009 at 10:57pm
Looking quality.. :)


Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 11 June 2009 at 3:12pm
Originally posted by jethrocker jethrocker wrote:

Looking quality.. :)
 
 Thumbs Up


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**Heavy Weight-Line**
A home without books is like a body with no soul.


Posted By: Wrighty
Date Posted: 11 June 2009 at 3:28pm
Will have the whole rig out on Saturday, for Tavistock Summer Solstice 09 Live Music & Beer Festival :D

Just hoping for some sun and no rain this year...


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ALL YOUR BASS ARE BELONG TO US.


Posted By: evolution rob
Date Posted: 11 June 2009 at 7:02pm
Quality Build Mate Good Effort!!


Posted By: mace.ben
Date Posted: 01 August 2009 at 6:37pm
nice one.


Posted By: Strange Daze
Date Posted: 03 August 2009 at 12:45pm

serious.

Nicelly done!! :)



Posted By: Wrighty
Date Posted: 03 August 2009 at 12:48pm
Cheers guys :)

In case you haven't already seen them, there are pics of the rig in action here:

http://forum.speakerplans.com/show-off-your-sound-system_topic2179_post277461.html#277461 - http://forum.speakerplans.com/show-off-your-sound-system_topic2179_post277461.html#277461


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ALL YOUR BASS ARE BELONG TO US.


Posted By: streetsounds
Date Posted: 04 August 2009 at 4:10am
Nice set up there.. how's the sound of your 4 four 186 underneath the stage?, was it better than two a side sound wise? A bit thicker I guess...

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Bass matters...


Posted By: Wrighty
Date Posted: 04 August 2009 at 12:53pm
Awesome with them all in one block like that. Don't get any horrible comb filtering effects on the bass. Just lovely and consistent right across the crowd area :) They probably go a bit lower too, with the mouth area being that big.

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ALL YOUR BASS ARE BELONG TO US.


Posted By: burningbush
Date Posted: 04 August 2009 at 2:19pm
Very nice, clean and tidy - take them anywhere.  Get some HD15's.Wink

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music is the message


Posted By: Wrighty
Date Posted: 04 August 2009 at 2:28pm
Nah. If I was going to build anything, I'd do a straight horn to cover about 100 to 400Hz, to replace the reflex 15s. HD15s don't go high enough to meet the 8". I've got some designs on paper, but no time or storage space to do anything with them at the moment!

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ALL YOUR BASS ARE BELONG TO US.


Posted By: Cymatic
Date Posted: 19 October 2009 at 12:32pm
they look sexy as hell!


Posted By: Wrighty
Date Posted: 19 October 2009 at 12:44pm
Cheers Approve

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ALL YOUR BASS ARE BELONG TO US.


Posted By: smiffy660
Date Posted: 02 January 2010 at 2:16pm
Maybe 4 MT122's would suit that gap, just the 12" horn sections I mean? Thats what worked well on mine, love the high mid and high section you have, is just perfect. Well done!


Posted By: discosucks
Date Posted: 31 March 2010 at 1:59am

class stuff!



Posted By: Keen
Date Posted: 15 July 2012 at 9:31am
Originally posted by Wrighty Wrighty wrote:

PD186, standard 636mm wide 186 horn:


18LW1400, modified 536mm wide 186 horn:



Nice work mate, love the horns. But just noticed Con: 166.10 should be Exp: 166.10

Just for other peeps reference. Cheers


Posted By: smoore
Date Posted: 16 July 2012 at 11:05am
They look insanely good mate! Is making me itch, I wanna go out an build the same!! Top job


Posted By: Keen
Date Posted: 16 July 2012 at 11:29am
Originally posted by smoore smoore wrote:

They look insanely good mate! Is making me itch, I wanna go out an build the same!! Top job

+1


Posted By: Wrighty
Date Posted: 23 July 2012 at 11:16am
Ha, cheers guys :)

The conical/exponential difference hardly alters the plot. I think I just forgot to change it when I created the new record, but I remember trying both and it making virtually no difference.


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ALL YOUR BASS ARE BELONG TO US.


Posted By: Keen
Date Posted: 23 July 2012 at 11:30am
Originally posted by Wrighty Wrighty wrote:


The conical/exponential difference hardly alters the plot. I think I just forgot to change it when I created the new record, but I remember trying both and it making virtually no difference.


No it does, quite a bit Wink


Posted By: Wrighty
Date Posted: 23 July 2012 at 11:41am
Just fired up Hornresp... Hmm, I stand corrected - it does make quite a difference with a single cab. Becomes much less pronounced with 4 though :)

Either way, there's hardly any difference (in terms of Hornresp plots) between the narrow 18LW1400 loaded 186 horn and the standard PD.186 loaded 186 horn - which was the aim of this project!


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ALL YOUR BASS ARE BELONG TO US.


Posted By: Keen
Date Posted: 23 July 2012 at 11:47am
Yeah I hear ya Wrighty! Nice one! 


Posted By: Laurin
Date Posted: 24 July 2012 at 7:13am
Any pics of your hornloaded tops?


Posted By: Wrighty
Date Posted: 24 July 2012 at 1:52pm
None showing the horns, unfortunately. I'll have to get them out and take some! Here are a couple of the rig at a festival a few years ago. The horn loaded tops are on top of single reflex-loaded 15" subs, which I was crossing over to use as low mids instead (around 110-400Hz).

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=91235732110&l=7b7d327924" rel="nofollow - http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=91235732110&l=7b7d327924

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=397325727110&l=3c81c45b57" rel="nofollow - http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=397325727110&l=3c81c45b57


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ALL YOUR BASS ARE BELONG TO US.


Posted By: budzilla08
Date Posted: 10 August 2012 at 8:45am
Originally posted by levyte357 levyte357 wrote:

Originally posted by Wrighty Wrighty wrote:


Modifications:

- Made them 100mm narrower so I can fit 4 in my store.


You do know, you have now reduced the chamber size and Horn mouth.Shocked

Was hoping "modified" meant slightly deeper, slightly taller.

what wud this of achieved?


Posted By: grazzeee
Date Posted: 10 August 2012 at 9:21am
looking at those pictures made me a little bet wet. :/


Posted By: DJ BobbyT
Date Posted: 31 October 2014 at 9:24pm
Hello there my name is Robert,I'm In the U.S.A. And in need  someone to help me if possible.i have in mt favorites folder the pictures of the 186 horns done By Wrighty don't know who he is but I very much would like for him to give me some numbers for the horns he made.they aare just what I am looking for to Build.Today is November the first 2014 at 5:30 PM Eastern time.please can someone please help me contact him please thank you a new Member here hope to learn some good things here.thank you.


Posted By: DJ BobbyT
Date Posted: 31 October 2014 at 9:29pm
just had to post this also::I Am a member of QRZ.COM. Yes I Do operate a Ham Radio Anyone out there can contact me on <;;Southcars.com saterdays also we have a alstraila net there also.


Posted By: Keen
Date Posted: 01 November 2014 at 9:52am
Bobby you need to get some more points before you can pm Wrighty, something like 10 points.

But you don't really need drawings from him. He has simply taken 100mm off the height, the plan is otherwise identical and can be found here http://www.speakerplans.com/index.php?id=186horn

hth


Posted By: DJ BobbyT
Date Posted: 01 November 2014 at 2:14pm
Thank you Keen,i saw the plans but I needed the numbers finaly got them and they were in metric.i don't know how to convert them.i found a converter so wish me luck starting on Monday morning I realy want these Horns.i'm putting (SA New Madrid 18"in them.now I need a lessexpencive Crossover to put in them.so thanks again mate.i will be on the radio this morning talking into aus this morning.(KJ4ZFM)Florida U.S.A.     THANKS


Posted By: Twiggy
Date Posted: 01 November 2014 at 6:32pm
take any metric value and divide by 25.4
and multiple to convert imperial to metric

1" = 25.4mm


Posted By: mini-mad
Date Posted: 01 November 2014 at 9:03pm
Originally posted by Twiggy Twiggy wrote:

take any metric value and divide by 25.4
and multiple to convert imperial to metric

1" = 25.4mm

Lol



...does your calculator spit it out down to the neatest eight of an inch??



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If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.


Posted By: Twiggy
Date Posted: 03 November 2014 at 1:20pm
If you can't calculate from decimals to fractions you obviously didn't go to school. They teach that in primary




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