Mini Mini?
Printed From: Speakerplans.com
Category: Plans
Forum Name: Scoops
Forum Description: One scoop or two ;-)
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=22364
Printed Date: 19 April 2024 at 1:19pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.06 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Mini Mini?
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Subject: Mini Mini?
Date Posted: 28 December 2008 at 12:51am
After looking at youmy mans fighting and swearing about mini scoops for the past 2 years I finally got to playing around inside the given dimensions. Also took a gander at some of the photos Tek's got up here... I Probably f**ked up somewhere too  Well... Aint anything special. 4 will go down to 38Hz with C18-650EL in HRESP. Parameters: S1 = 784.8 S2 = 1705.85 EXP = 145 Vtc = 70000 Atc = 2905 Single Plot:  Plan:  ------------- www.aggressiveaudio.co.za |
Replies:
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 28 December 2008 at 10:52am
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Slightly modified. throats a bit bigger.. S1 = 828.4  Usable between 35Hz and 80Hz...... High pass 4 @ 30Hz ------------- www.aggressiveaudio.co.za |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 28 December 2008 at 12:39pm
TB thanks yet again for your contribution. But that driver seems to be yielding reflex cab SPL.  ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Three-Bee wrote:Posted By: boycey
Date Posted: 28 December 2008 at 1:13pm
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even though i am a total noob at this and the whole scoop thing isn't really me... isn't the poor sensitivity down to the bits with zero expansion or the negative expansion towards the end of the "scoop" bit?
------------- the only thing more dangerous than a person who doesn't give a f**k is a person who gives a sh*t. |
Posted By: mobiele eenheid
Date Posted: 28 December 2008 at 1:28pm
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The low sensitivty simulated comes from the path length difference of 145 cm (not so wild guess). The actual path length difference is zero and should yield much better results both in SPL and flatness.
@Three-Bee: Tussen haakjes, moet er geen "w" achter jou?
Best regards Johan
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Posted By: CHAMPION
Date Posted: 28 December 2008 at 5:11pm
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whats going on with all these MINI Bee scoops..!!
What are you trying to acheive ?
ASS & Shortman's have been proven.
Are you trying to design a mini based on the new Drivers ?? or just adding to the collection ? ------------- Sticks n Stones |
Posted By: (SoundcreationaudiO)
Date Posted: 28 December 2008 at 5:19pm
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think he's just using his head, and having a go at something... ------------- |
Posted By: CHAMPION
Date Posted: 28 December 2008 at 5:25pm
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oky if thats the case...i could do with mini scoops which can play high 100-120hz having a punchy kick, and also play low 50hz ? max output volume.
Which mini will do this, small chamber i take it.
i can do with them rather than a double 18 cab
Three bee dont take it in a wrong way.
Good Investigation work..
 ------------- Sticks n Stones |
Posted By: nickyburnell
Date Posted: 28 December 2008 at 6:12pm
Not so: Ass and Shortman can be as brilliant as you like but they are not DIY, this is a DIY forum called Speaker Plans after all.
Hapyy New Year  ------------- It's everything, not everythink! |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 28 December 2008 at 7:34pm
Looks like there's 0 expansion on the last bit when you look at these pics. I can make it expand if you like though.... Wont change much with the output. ------------- www.aggressiveaudio.co.za |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 28 December 2008 at 7:54pm
Here is the SPL Response with the SD18. The 1w response is the same and only about 1dB up on the 650EL. ------------- www.aggressiveaudio.co.za |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 28 December 2008 at 7:54pm
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------------- www.aggressiveaudio.co.za |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 28 December 2008 at 7:55pm
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http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/8126/minispleased18py0.jpg">
------------- www.aggressiveaudio.co.za |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 28 December 2008 at 7:57pm
http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=minispleased18py0.jpg">
------------- www.aggressiveaudio.co.za |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 28 December 2008 at 7:58pm
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http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/8126/minispleased18py0.jpg
------------- www.aggressiveaudio.co.za |
Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 29 December 2008 at 3:09am
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path length differance should be zero as mentioned
what you have done is the same as the schematic, that way would have bee slightly longer also. On a schematic, the mouth is behind the driver by 145+ the chamber depth
on a scoop, the front of the driver is level with the mouth
do you mind if I have a play around with this drawing? ------------- ......just all them hanging there like giant bananas. |
Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 29 December 2008 at 3:11am
you do crack me up sometimes  ------------- ......just all them hanging there like giant bananas. |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 29 December 2008 at 8:21am
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Have fun with it Myk.
------------- www.aggressiveaudio.co.za |
Posted By: staiper
Date Posted: 29 December 2008 at 10:04am
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I have my version of large chamberer "mini" scoop (only in plans-newer built one) It looks promising for it's category by simulations .. but I can't claim anything before RL test. Cabinet is nothing magic-revolutionary.. just plain simple mini-scoop. ..may post plans ..if I must.. if somebody is interested fot building/testing.  |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 29 December 2008 at 2:26pm
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Hugo Stubbie Scoop Version3 [SD18] : Parameters: S1 = 866.4 S2 = 2074.8 EXP = 165.5 Vtc = 70000 Atc = 1349.6   ------------- www.aggressiveaudio.co.za |
Posted By: CHAMPION
Date Posted: 29 December 2008 at 5:57pm
Hi Stripe... I will be soon ------------- Sticks n Stones |
Posted By: mobiele eenheid
Date Posted: 29 December 2008 at 10:52pm
Best regards
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Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 01 January 2009 at 4:10pm
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V4..... S1 = 713 S2 = 2150 EXP = 165 Vtc = 60000 Atc = 1210 B&C 18NW100 B&C 18TBX100   ------------- www.aggressiveaudio.co.za |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 03 January 2009 at 12:47am
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A full 1: [Click the button if it works] forum_posts.asp?TID=13805&PID=221514#221514">  ------------- www.aggressiveaudio.co.za |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 07 January 2009 at 1:35am
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A Scoop and Kick pair over here now > forum_posts.asp?TID=13805&PID=222169#222169"> PS. Did I draw that Scoop right? Mykey? Anybody? ------------- www.aggressiveaudio.co.za |
Posted By: CHAMPION
Date Posted: 07 January 2009 at 12:28pm
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very nice...ig then mid highs were the same width as all of the beloww, that would make a uniform stack, they way it chould be..your getting the hang of this !! well done ------------- Sticks n Stones |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 07 January 2009 at 2:36pm
3B, that throat seems way to tight, and is pushing all the action right towards 50hz. Larger throat and rear chamber is really what gives this little guy the oopmh. So I would suggest at least 636mm cab width, with throat around 1000mm, and larger rear chamber. Try Modelling, S1=1000 S2=2150 EXP=165 Vtc=65000 Atc=1210 with a)V18-1200, // Flatten with eq to do 40-120 b)V18-1000, // Sub monster, kick bin needed c)PD1850, // Sub monster, kick bin + restraints needed d)Turbomax 1200 e)Turbomax 1000 f)Fane XB1200 Would also suggest double front baffle, and front extended to allow battens for grill that doesnt hit driver. Also brace that forms part of the horn throat. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 07 January 2009 at 3:11pm
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Cool Lev. Was going on the other mini outside dim's
------------- www.aggressiveaudio.co.za |
Posted By: bitzo
Date Posted: 07 January 2009 at 3:20pm
| one question...when you sim different speakers...did you change the vtc value regarding speaker dimension? |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 07 January 2009 at 3:26pm
Please finish this off ASAP 3B, its looking very serious already. Nick "EL Cheapo" Burnell will like this, because it will work with Eminence Kappa/Sigma as well.
I "think" on average, 18" drivers swallow 8.5-13 litres, so real 75 litre rear chamber, should model as 65 litre inc driver pretty accurately. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 07 January 2009 at 4:29pm
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@ Bitzo: I'm working on a 10L average on the 18's. You will have Lining in the chamber anyways so it will make a difference too.. V5:    Feel free to adjust the plans as you guys like, hey. Anything to make the thing perform the way it should.... ------------- www.aggressiveaudio.co.za |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 07 January 2009 at 4:30pm
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That 70Degree should be 80!
------------- www.aggressiveaudio.co.za |
Posted By: nickyburnell
Date Posted: 07 January 2009 at 8:02pm
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"Nick "EL Cheapo" Burnell will like this, because it will work with Eminence Kappa/Sigma as well." :) Two Omega Pros waiting. Am I right is saying that the Soundbarrier Minis look like they just have a slope rather than curved scoop? ------------- It's everything, not everythink! |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 07 January 2009 at 11:22pm
Think we're losing it a bit there 3B. Take a look at the Bull X scoop, to see what kind of proportions are possible. You'll also see the brace forming part of the throat. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 08 January 2009 at 12:09am
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So, you want something that looks like this inside? ]more or less] http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/982/rapedbullxtm1.png">  "You'll also see the brace forming part of the throat." > I see a brace in the throat, not part of the throat? ------------- www.aggressiveaudio.co.za |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 08 January 2009 at 12:57am
Lev, Are you comparing this to other sh*t yourself though? If you want bracing between the panels you can add whatever you want... This is the Bull-X and my V5 Mini with V18-1200: ------------- www.aggressiveaudio.co.za |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 08 January 2009 at 12:57am
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The Bull-X with the FULL chamber though!
------------- www.aggressiveaudio.co.za |
Posted By: tweeter box
Date Posted: 08 January 2009 at 8:14pm
wicked stuff 3b, quick question, what would happen if you shortened the cab depth by about 1.6" ??
1" behind the driver magnet and 0.6" back of the box? ------------- PRECISION SOUND SYSTEM. Feeding the peoples needs for Roots Music. Strictly premium grade reggae and dub steppers from the early 70's to present day. |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 08 January 2009 at 9:24pm
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Prolly not much
------------- www.aggressiveaudio.co.za |
Posted By: CHAMPION
Date Posted: 08 January 2009 at 9:43pm
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whats the verdict ? ------------- Sticks n Stones |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 08 January 2009 at 9:56pm
A not-as-deep 1 of the above. It models the same. ------------- www.aggressiveaudio.co.za |
Posted By: CHAMPION
Date Posted: 08 January 2009 at 10:01pm
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which mini plays higher...or has a more punchy sound, more musical, not a low ? Bull X ------------- Sticks n Stones |
Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 09 January 2009 at 1:46am
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Champ, the bull-x is very musical, it's on the button
it doesn't do 'sub' as most would know it, it does what a scoop does
to get a mini to play high is a piece of piss, is that what everyone is after? ------------- ......just all them hanging there like giant bananas. |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 09 January 2009 at 1:58am
The world is already full of subs that struggle to hit 40hz in singles.  Well designed mini with V18-1000/PD1850 can hit 40hz in singles, at decent sensitivity no problem. Seen it and heard it.  Mykey any chance you can get one of yours knocked up with clamps in London ? ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 09 January 2009 at 1:59am
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@ Hugo, you're not minus'ing the driver?? I make it roughly 67 litres? minus the driver
I always work on 11 for big drivers, but an average of 8.5 litres will be good
so you have 65 litres minus 8.5 = 56.50 ------------- ......just all them hanging there like giant bananas. |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 09 January 2009 at 2:00am
Champ if you want a mini that plays more musical and higher, make Mykey mini, and put 18XB/V18-1200 in it. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 09 January 2009 at 2:06am
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I get 71,794800L every time.... I checked my last horn response input in its 62L now. ------------- www.aggressiveaudio.co.za |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 09 January 2009 at 2:11am
------------- www.aggressiveaudio.co.za |
Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 09 January 2009 at 2:46am
Rear chamber.......564 x 462 x 259? = 67
directlyt below the rear baff is the throat right? ------------- ......just all them hanging there like giant bananas. |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 09 January 2009 at 11:05am
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I confused myself there I think. Had 10 different drawups of the sh*t... all deleted now
------------- www.aggressiveaudio.co.za |
Posted By: CHAMPION
Date Posted: 09 January 2009 at 11:24am
might chuck in the Fane 1000 ------------- Sticks n Stones |
Posted By: CHAMPION
Date Posted: 09 January 2009 at 11:30am
Mike..do us a Fav..make a cutting list wen ur havin a cup of Tea ------------- Sticks n Stones |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 09 January 2009 at 12:09pm
Hey Champ, how about you stick 4x clamps on your 1st one, so I can come hear all the top drivers? ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: TDA-Audio
Date Posted: 09 January 2009 at 12:40pm
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to Hugo Biermann May be recalculyted ES-15BLH MicroScoope by Staip to 18" ???? ------------- horns plans http://photofile.ru/users/tda-audio/ |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 10 January 2009 at 5:12pm
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@TDA - The Hog is prolly the better option
------------- www.aggressiveaudio.co.za |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 15 January 2009 at 3:34am
Hugo Stubby Scoop Version No. 5.3.5.9.7.1.5.101.5.68.4.2.W_T_F! ------------- www.aggressiveaudio.co.za |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 15 January 2009 at 3:40am
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S1 = 798 S2 = 2304 CON = 103 S3 = 2304 CON = 47 VTC = 84000 ATC = 1400 ------------- www.aggressiveaudio.co.za |
Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 15 January 2009 at 3:56am
 how many do we actually have now lol ------------- ......just all them hanging there like giant bananas. |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 15 January 2009 at 4:15am
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Should create a sticky with all of them on show...
------------- www.aggressiveaudio.co.za |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 15 January 2009 at 4:28am
The Handles, Skids and Speakon Chassis Placements: ------------- www.aggressiveaudio.co.za |
Posted By: CHAMPION
Date Posted: 15 January 2009 at 10:43am
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No angle for Castors at the bottom ? + two handles at the back, i rekon thats all it needs ------------- Sticks n Stones |
Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 15 January 2009 at 12:50pm
Yow, most pros have the skids the other way so it's possible to pass straps underneath! any thoughts ?
------------- **Heavy Weight-Line** A home without books is like a body with no soul. |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 15 January 2009 at 4:58pm
Like this:  ------------- www.aggressiveaudio.co.za |
Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 15 January 2009 at 5:47pm
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------------- **Heavy Weight-Line** A home without books is like a body with no soul. |
Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 21 January 2009 at 5:50am
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mini mini?
http://www.yorkville.com/products.asp?type=29&cat=2&id=126 - http://www.yorkville.com/products.asp?type=29&cat=2&id=126 ------------- ......just all them hanging there like giant bananas. |
Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 21 January 2009 at 5:51am
I didn't get the thumbs up tek ------------- ......just all them hanging there like giant bananas. |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 21 January 2009 at 3:09pm
You know Tek has a castors and Handles fetish, thats why.  ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 22 January 2009 at 8:48am
As long as its not these handles! ------------- www.aggressiveaudio.co.za |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 23 August 2022 at 12:09pm
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Hi to all. I thought it best to post this in my old thread. A 'customer' has been hounding me about scoops for a bit of time now and I have been fighting and explaining that driver choice is at a minimum in ZA. Either way. I have been drawing a cabinet for whats available to him locally. Current driver choice is a Beyma 18P1400Fe. Its not a full roots system... Its the local flavor. They currently run their gigs with whatever they can get.. And would prefer having small cabinets for transportation.. Looking at eight to start off with. Power will be off probably Celto T4.26 amplifiers as that's what they have and are willing to buy more of... Here is what I have in Hornresponse:  And the plot:  The plan:  And a Sketchup view:  I haven't done any messing about with horn cabinets in years! It has mostly been T18's and reflex. Any thoughts? Cabinet internal width is at 574mm.
------------- www.aggressiveaudio.co.za |