12" Tapped Horns?
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Category: Plans
Forum Name: Other plans
Forum Description: Discussion / Questions about all the other plans
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=22514
Printed Date: 27 March 2026 at 2:15am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.08 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: 12" Tapped Horns?
Posted By: norty303
Subject: 12" Tapped Horns?
Date Posted: 04 January 2009 at 6:07pm
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I seem to remember a thread by Deadbeat about 12" tapped horns, based I think using the Ciare 12.00sw. Any links or any suggestions?
I've been playing around with a dual 6th order bandpass box using the Ciare, potentially to get the size down so i could get a pair of them and my X15's in the car. At the moment its one double 18, but not both.
Curious how a single 12" tapped horn would compare with a double 12" BP6 of roughly same cab size? Range would be around 40hz to 110hz. Obvious benefits of less drivers and less weight if they could get to similar levels, and I could prob go for another pair for the bigger gigs then. I guess 4 12" TH's would be quite good if done right? ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Replies:
Posted By: Contour
Date Posted: 04 January 2009 at 6:22pm
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Before hardly anyone knew what a tapped horn was, I designed one for the Ciare 12.00SW. I called it the 'stepped horn' take a look at http://www.speakerstore.nl - www.speakerstore.nl and you will understand why.
This one works very well with the Ciare 12.00SW it is aimed at 30-80Hz so real sub duty.
Best regards,
Walt
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Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 04 January 2009 at 7:05pm
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That'll be the one! Thanks.
I'm going to have to look into this abit closer i can see, I need a quite specific footprint for this box so it fits into the carrying space available. Folding will be the key i think. ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 04 January 2009 at 7:25pm
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You should do something like the TH Minis. I think it is close to this internaly 
------------- Marjan Milosevic MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
Posted By: Sheggy
Date Posted: 23 January 2009 at 7:13pm
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Walt's stepped horn is the only sub I've built (much respect Contour) and you really can't argue with a design that goes that low and that you can build in a day. The whole thing with a Ciare 12.00 SW cost me under 150 quid to build. The only thing I'd say is that, to my ear at least, it lacks some punch in the kick drum. This isn't a problem for me; I don't play techno/dance and it sounds sweet and warm crossed over at 60-80 Hz. I've been thinking of ways to fold it but then I saw this: http://www.speakerplans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21659 If I ever find the time, I'll build a single 12" version of the EAW BH but with steps after Walt. I've sketched it up but need to work out the chamber size for a Ciare 12.00 SW. I'd be interested in what Contour and Marjan think about this ... S |
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 24 January 2009 at 12:37am
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The steps thing is much better at the LF your TH works at. The BH will suffer...it's not the right design imo to 'step' - the current folding is efficient re wood - stepping the straight panels isn't such a good idea... If you want a compact beast, chop and fold the stepped horn into a box  Or design your own for a larger bandwidth. ------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 24 January 2009 at 11:34am
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+1
------------- Marjan Milosevic MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
Posted By: FlipC
Date Posted: 24 January 2009 at 10:33pm
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Sheggy Have you worked out the BH760 ? It looks allot like a 25 Hz Sub from this Joe guy- link is at home will try to remember to post asap. |
Posted By: FlipC
Date Posted: 24 January 2009 at 10:36pm
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Also does anyone have the HR data for that stepped horn? |
Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 24 January 2009 at 11:22pm
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BH 760 dont do 25 Hz. It is all a marketing mabmo jumbo. It has too small mouth and not long enough horn to be able to do that. Lab Sub cant do 25Hz and it is much bigger box.. ------------- Marjan Milosevic MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
Posted By: FlipC
Date Posted: 25 January 2009 at 10:18am
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Marjan I was refering to the sub this one reminded me of. Sec let me find HAHA Uh seems I have the plans for this particular sub already. The items is Doc5.htm Will check later if exact same but looks it. Measures: 1252x650x786 ? Well crap cant find what I am looking for. It is a horn that has an added extension to get it down to 25-28 Hz. I swar I have plans somewhere but cant find. ): |
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 25 January 2009 at 12:16pm
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BH882 is the one you're talking about (absolutely massive W-bin, as seen in MOS). Oh, all these model numbers... ------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: FlipC
Date Posted: 26 January 2009 at 5:48pm
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Uh if you are referring to what I was thinking about, then No it is not. Here's is a link: http://geocities.com/loudspeakerguru/Jeff_Bass_Bin.gif - http://geocities.com/loudspeakerguru/Jeff_Bass_Bin.gif Turns out it wasn't a pic I had saved. |
Posted By: Sheggy
Date Posted: 30 January 2009 at 7:25pm
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I think I see what you're saying about steps in the BH760 DB. Do you think the steps would cause turbulence at the higher frequencies? I would keep it strictly sub. I've sketched out ways to fold Walt's stepped horn but none of mine look too good: they seem to increase the overall size of the box. I should play with it more but I haven't had time yet to get into the modelling (one day tho). Speaking of increasing volume, what would be the effect on freq response and sensitivity of taking Walt's stepped horn and having a rear chamber. S |
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 30 January 2009 at 8:04pm
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What i meant was that steps would complicate assembly as the BH760 is effectively 'stepped' (turn your head around a bit and you'll see on the pic). TD's reasoning which is perfectly fine is that at LF, having a smooth horn path isn't so important with such large wavelengths compared to the imperfections. I agree. The only thing is that such irregularities may have you ending up with rogue air masses, but that's for another day. Besides, with such a low expansion, actual horn action isn't strictly there (the hot topic of the 'does the TH actually act as a BP in the low end' debate). The latest version of Hornresp actually allows for rear chambers on tapped horns (you can now model EV T18's and friends nicely). I'm not sure about their effect as I haven't played around with the new HR  . But I have a pretty good idea of what to expect...ask someone who's used it (mobiele eenhied?).The tapped horn wizard makes modeling accessible to everyone. To be perfectly honest, it would be more fun just having a play on HR, finding something that works, and drawing it up that refolding the stepped horn. May I just ask, what kind of box are you exactly looking for? (use, etc) PS A nice little guide: http://volvotreter.de/downloads/Folding_a_Tapped_Horn.pdf - http://volvotreter.de/downloads/Folding_a_Tapped_Horn.pdf ------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: Sheggy
Date Posted: 01 February 2009 at 5:00pm
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I'm just looking for something more compact really. 12" tapped/stepped horns have a small footprint at the expense of height - I'm really trying to keep the characteristics of Walt's horn but improve it's portability. Oh, and also to keep the Ciare 12.00, which seems great for this. I'll have to find the time to get to grips with Hornresp and get a feel for how a rear chamber would change things. A little more kick would be good for some styles of music. For me improved sensitivity would also be good because I (underpower) the Ciare 12 with a valve amp. Not that Walt's horn has poor sensitivity mind ... I only use the box for parties so this is just fun for me. If I can find the time I'll take on a new project in the summer and a folded TH might be the one. It would also give me the opportunity to use ply instead of MDF and put some handles on. Then someone can have the old stepped box if they want it. S Thanks for the link DB - looks like my next project |
Posted By: Volvotreter
Date Posted: 08 February 2009 at 7:32pm
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What would you guys think of someting like this: It uses the 12" which is said to be in the TH-Mini:  With this predicted response:  It's a pretty small box with the size of the TH-Mini. Erik |
Posted By: staiper
Date Posted: 08 February 2009 at 10:07pm
Welcome Volvotreter  I have thought that http://www.bcspeakers.com/product.php?id=0000000045 - B&C 12PS100 is used in Danley TH-mini (only based on power ratings)?.. (I did not tried to simulate 12PS100 one so I do not know what it "say" ) However 12TBX100 in your simulation looks daaaamn god  |
Posted By: mobiele eenheid
Date Posted: 09 February 2009 at 11:51am
In case of the plot you posted which rolls of sharply at ~50 Hz, is flat above and around 105 dB/W/m. A chamber size X would result in a more gradual roll off at 43 Hz but at ~101 dB/W/m then gradually climb up towards 105 dB, which it reaches at 100+ Hz. Something like that.
You can design to get a flat response again but than you need to alter the horn length.
Best regards Johan
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I'll have to find the time to get to grips with Hornresp and get a feel for how a rear chamber would change things.Posted By: MikeHunt79
Date Posted: 20 February 2009 at 1:11am
I built this 6ft 5" beast back in April: I built it because I had the wood, driver and glue and wanted to see if tapped horns live up to the hype! In my opinion they do!  Sounds nice, uses an Eminence 4012 driver which only has 6mm of xmax yet still gives a nice amount of output down to 30Hz despite the driver having a Fs of 45Hz. My only complaint is it runs out a xmax at 40Hz, but hornresp also predicts this so it didn't come as a huge suprise... Quick question, would it have be a good idea to put extra wood panels in the top corners at 45 degrees? Am I losing output by the sound bouncing back from the top panel? (I only thought about this after gluing the final panel on!)  I hope to build another one which will go down to 40Hz, but have higher output... When I get the time and slightly better weather... PS: Hey Volvotreter, this is the same same the Cowan 30Hz horn over at DIYaudio, I've just used a different driver to him... I've found the Eminence 4012 does a pretty good job with a TH-mini type app too, a little less SPL but a little more extension...  Looks like it could be used up to 300Hz with a little EQ? It doesn't beat the B&C for output as the Eminence has less xmax and also the box is larger but it's still not huge. ------------- I'm English, and as such I crave disappointment. I actively seek it out. |
Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 20 February 2009 at 5:55pm
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Sounds nice, uses an Eminence 4012 driver which only has 6mm of xmax yet still gives a nice amount of output down to 30Hz despite the driver having a Fs of 45Hz. My only complaint is it runs out a xmax at 40Hz, but hornresp also predicts this so it didn't come as a huge suprise... Perfect Fs for the job Quick question, would it have be a good idea to put extra wood panels in the top corners at 45 degrees? Am I losing output by the sound bouncing back from the top panel? (I only thought about this after gluing the final panel on!)  Don't know, standing waves? What's the depth of the thing? ------------- Away on extended leave. |
Posted By: MikeHunt79
Date Posted: 21 February 2009 at 3:21am
Nice, it was more luck than judgement really, as an existing design for a different driver happens to be suitable for a driver I had to hand. It definitely sounds different to a normal folded horn tho, more reflexy (if that's even a word)... I guess this is because the driver is visible so you get to hear a few more harmonics that would be inaudible with a folded horn.
That's the one, standing waves. I often forget the names for these things!  Would it be worth using extra wood in the corners to prevent destructive interference if I was to build another?Internal depth is around 400mm. A pic speaks a 1000 words so this should make things a little clearer, this is the box I built:  This design was originally posted by William Cowan on the massive Tapped Horn thread on DIYaudio, all credit goes to him! ------------- I'm English, and as such I crave disappointment. I actively seek it out. |
Posted By: _djk_
Date Posted: 21 February 2009 at 4:42am
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9.1mm
http://www.eminence.com/proaudio_speaker_detail.asp?web_detail_link=kappalite3012lf&speaker_size=12&SUB_CAT_ID=3 - http://www.eminence.com/proaudio_speaker_detail.asp?web_detail_link=kappalite3012lf&speaker_size=12&SUB_CAT_ID=3 ------------- djk |
Posted By: MikeHunt79
Date Posted: 21 February 2009 at 3:22pm
9.1mm xmax? I'm not using that driver tho, I'm using this one: http://www.eminence.com/proaudio_speaker_detail.asp?web_detail_link=DEFINIMAX4012HO&speaker_size=12&SUB_CAT_ID=1 - http://www.eminence.com/proaudio_speaker_detail.asp?web_detail_link=DEFINIMAX4012HO&speaker_size=12&SUB_CAT_ID=1 6.2mm, but I think that's also pretty optimistic as this driver is known to be the same as the Magnum 12ho which had 4.8mm xmax in the datasheet. ------------- I'm English, and as such I crave disappointment. I actively seek it out. |
Posted By: _djk_
Date Posted: 22 February 2009 at 7:56am
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The driver is brand new, and is suggested for its high x-max.
x1.4=3dB more output
x2=6dB more output ------------- djk |