inside BEHRINGER DDM4000, 32bit Digi Mixer(update)
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URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=23217
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Topic: inside BEHRINGER DDM4000, 32bit Digi Mixer(update)
Posted By: nineleaves
Subject: inside BEHRINGER DDM4000, 32bit Digi Mixer(update)
Date Posted: 23 January 2009 at 9:37am
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{a post i also sorted for ucapps.de, may interest folks here too:} A little while back behringer made a pioneer djm 600 mixer clone.. it sucked really badly on many levels, it was wrong and poorly built. they obviously got their fingers burnt, as their new flagship ddm 4000 digital dj mixer is quite the opposite ;) http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/DDM4000.aspx (their new, rubbish website) Dispite being lighter than you might expect, it is built as well as any mixer youd pay top dollar for; it packs more features & sound fidelity than its 'rivals' and rolls in at an obscenely cheap £250 / $300 :) and honestly, after using it.. i personally couldnt justify buying the priceier alternatives ;) hmm, its based on 2x 400mhz analog devices blackfin dsps & cirrus logic 114db adc/dacs.. under specced it is not ;) certain widgets like bpm syncronised effects are increadibly fun & useful, also features eq and dynamics processing on all channels. the mic section also has its own effects section for adding reverb etc ..and supports channel ducking for announcements/radio talkover. digital out also, however no digi ins :/ ..would be nice to see, as would remove one more adc/dac stage when using the cdj-1000's the mixer was probably designed with being paired up with the cdj's in mind, as dispite the odd orange and blue dominated lighting scheme it actually fits in very nicely with the decks :) also, took the time to test the players and mixer with midi control from the mixer to use it as a control surface for traktor ! ..and used the time code cd's in the cdj 1000's to control the scratching section of traktor to manipulate music on the pc also. i can confirm all of this works flawlessly :) ..supprised at that ! ..was expecting a niggle. unfortunately, this does mean ill never build a mios traktor controller ;) :) ..ah well, more time for other projects :) right.. down to business:   ..and lights off, ooh ! pretty ;)  nice speckled silver/black finish :) also modded the usual problem of overly bright blue leds, 4.7k added worked a treat.. tho maybe the next value up for some peoples tastes, only this doesnt burn the retinas out now ;)  EL backlit screen.  sliders are standard resistive tracks, not optical as reported some places ! nice, slightly resistive feel.. marked with a B in a triangle  new power opamps for headphones, supprisingly good. manages to run even relatively insensitive headphones like my other set, the akg k702 reference cans quite loudly. the sony mdr's are dangerous !   dsp card with two 400mhz blackfin dsps !      a supprising ammount of shielding & rfi filtering for a 'budget' product ;)  very simple smps ..not many linear psus in berry stuff these days.   
the plastic screen guard needed wiping from the inside to clear some residue from manifacturing ..not bad, but a noticeable streek on the plastic. main board: * 2x xtal - 16mhz * 2x headphone amps - cool audio V4580L high current opamps. * 2X AMTEL - ATMEGA8 RISC PIC 8-Kbyte self-programming Flash Program Memory, 1-Kbyte SRAM, 512 Byte EEPROM, 6 or 8 Channel 10-bit A/D-converter. Up to 16 MIPS throughput at 16 Mhz. 2.7 - 5.5 Volt operation. (lots of:) * 74HCT165 - 8 bit parrallel in serial out shift registers * 74HCT595 - 8-bit serial-in, serial or parallel-out shift register * 74HC4051 - 8-Channel Analog Multiplexer * 74HCT244 - Octal buffer, line driver; 3-state (afew) main board, analog i/o section: * jrc - 4580 - dual bipolar opamp, 0.0005% dist, 15mhz, 5v/us slew, 0.8uv/vn (standard behringer faire) * st - 074c - quad jfet opamps, 0.01% dist, 3mhz, 16v/us slew, 15nv/vn (old opamps, very odd !) dsp card: * 2x analog devices - black fin, adsp-bf532 - 400mhz !! (800 MMACS) 32 bit dsps. http://www.analog.com/en/embedded-processing-dsp/blackfin/adsp-bf532/processors/product.html * samsung k4s281632i-uc75 - 128mb sdram, 3.3v 133mhz/cl3 * hynix - hy57v161610ftp-7 - sdram, 3.3v, 16m, 64ms, 133mhz * xtal - 25mhz * xtal - 11.289 * 74LVT244 - Low Voltage Octal Buffer/Line Driver * 1x cirrus logic - cs4351 - 24-Bit, 192kHz, 2ch dac, 112 dB, -100db thd, with Line Driver * 2x cirrus logic - cs4345 - 24-Bit, 192kHz, 2ch dac, 105 dB, -90db thd (marked 345c071) * 4x cirrus logic - cs4272 - 24 bit, 192khz, 2ch adc & dac codec, 114db snr, -100db thd/n. * 1x cirrus logic - cs4271 - 24 bit, 192khz, 2ch adc & dac codec, 108(adc)/114db snr, -98/100db thd/n. NEW Test Results: Hi again, finally had the time to run some diagnostics on this little unit to determine how far it can be pushed signal wise & heres the results gleaned with passable, but less than optimal equipment. when discounting what anomalous distortion the measuring equipment adds to the data, id have to say this mixer certainly should perform pretty much to its spec sheet breakdown :) the behringer blampf: AUDIO INPUTS Mic 1/2 (XLR, electronically balanced) Max. input level -14 dBu Input impedance 2 kΩ Phono (RCA) Max. input level -18 dBu Input impedance 47 kΩ Line (RCA) Max. input level +30 dBu Input impedance 15 kΩ AUDIO OUTPUTS OUT A (XLR, balanced) Max. output level +21 dBu Output impedance 200 Ω OUT A / OUT B / TAPE (RCA) Max. output level +21 dBu Output impedance 100 Ω Phones Out max. 260 mW @ 100 Ω / 1 % THD S/PDIF (coaxial, 16 bit, 44.1 kHz) EQUALIZER Stereo Low -? dB/+12 dB Stereo Mid -? dB/+12 dB Stereo High -? dB/+12 dB Mic Low -12 dB/+12 dB, Shelving Mic Mid -12 dB/+12 dB, Peak Mic High -12 dB/+12 dB, Shelving DIGITAL EFFECTS PROCESSOR DSP 2x Analog Devices Black Fin AD/DA converter 24-bit Sigma-Delta/128-times oversampling/Cirrus Sampling rate 44.1 kHz LCD display 320 x 40 pixel MIDI interface 5-pin DIN jacks In/Out/Thru SYSTEM SPECIFICATIONS Frequency response Mic 25 Hz – 20 kHz, +0/-3 dB Phono 20 Hz – 20 kHz, +0/-3 dB Line 20 Hz – 20 kHz, +0/-3 dB Signal-to-noise ratio Mic > 87 dB Phono > 83 dB Line > 102 dB Distortion (THD) < 0,009 % (Line – OUT A) Crosstalk < -80 dB / 1 kHz (Line) POWER SUPPLY Mains voltage / fuse 100 – 240 V~, 50/60 Hz T 1 A H 250 V Power consumption max. 20 W Mains connector standard IEC receptacle DIMENSIONS/WEIGHT Dimensions (H x W x D) approx. 4 1/3" x 12 3/5" x 15 1/2" (110 mm x 320 mm x 392 mm) Weight approx. 9.3 lbs. (4.2 kg) MY Blamf: the simple, general rule of thumb gleaned from the bench testing below: * keep input signals on or below the yellow 0db mark to maximise resolution/quality of incoming signal, whilst allowing sufficent internal overhead to prevent effects and eqs clipping. * keep output below +8db for cleanest sound, try setting the gain of your pa to match this (with limiting applyed beyond this). * definately do not exceed 12db if you want your sound to remain clean. * itll sound crap & youll probably break things attached to this, if you push it waay into the clip region ;) The full breakdown: NOTE: measured with ARTA & Saffire le soundcard, performance of unit may well be higher on accounts of distortion & noise floor.. as the figures quoted will include what marginal hash it generates too. disregard the 156hz peak, this seems to have nothing to do with the mixer. Also noise & 1k sine sources used as an arbatary standard of sorts for these tests, no notable increase/decrease in distortion was noted with changing frequencys. dig out: * noise floor - -105db 100hz, 4.1k, -110db 20k, -83.5db * 1.15v pulse train, well defined edges. Line IN (ch1): line modes: * full gain without raised output noise floor. * With max gain - +14dbu/(-12dbfs)/1.81v (at 1k) without clipping. (shows +9 clipping on ddm) * gain trim range - 40db * freq resp appears to be ruler flat phono mode: * max gain noise floor - -75db 100hz, -94db 7k, -85db 20k output a: * +21 dbu before distortion. * +8db on ddm meter (11v) cleanest sound setting. - (THD 0.011%, 21 dbu) * +12db on ddm meter (14.5v) max 'clean' setting. - (THD 0.028%, 23.5 dbu) * clip starts to flicker on ddm meter (23v). - (THD 0.83%, 27.5 dbu) * beyond clip on ddm (27v) power rail limit. - (THD 1.63%, 29 dbu) * 27v peak, for 11v out (knob at 12 o clock) before marginal distortion rise. * opamp lower power rail seems to collapse before upper. * any output level, neglegible noise floor does not rise. * scope measured hf noise, mostly out of audio band: 22mv/rms aprox, 45mv peak. output b: * +21 dbu before distortion. * same breakdown as above. * any output level, neglegible noise floor does not rise. * scope measured hf noise, mostly out of audio band: 1500 NS cycle semi random sine noise (666.66KHZ) 115mv rms, 190mv peak tape output: as with b, but gain fixed to 1:1. headphones: 15.5v out - clean output (+20.5dbu, thd 0.025) 18.5v clip limit (+25.5dbu, thd 0.11) (no load)  Digital out, idle all inputs set to minimum level.  Phono in mode, with gain set to maximum.  Standard eq settings, low and high set to max gain.  Standard eq settings, mid set to max gain.  Standard eq settings, low and high set to min gain. interestingly, the cuts slope rather than shelf as with gain. after a little thought i concluded this is probably a better idea ;)  Standard eq settings, mid set to min gain. around about -70db dip.  output a, at 11.5v.  output a, at 14.5v.  output a, at 23v.  output a, at 27v. rail limit.  headphone out 15.5v (no load)  headphone out 18.5v (no load) |
Replies:
Posted By: nickyburnell
Date Posted: 23 January 2009 at 10:05am
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Thank you ------------- It's everything, not everythink! |
Posted By: jbl_man
Date Posted: 23 January 2009 at 10:32am
Nice thread Nineleaves,well done.
I did start an "inside your amp"thread a while back,but it all got lost somewhere. ------------- Be seeing you. |
Posted By: Bespoke
Date Posted: 23 January 2009 at 12:10pm
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What does it sound like when you clip the input ?
Nice mixer thou.... you never told me your a Dj  ------------- Gone |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 23 January 2009 at 12:24pm
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Excellent review (and I can't even see the pics yet - blocked at work...) ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: odc04r
Date Posted: 23 January 2009 at 1:18pm
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Cheers for those, seems Behringer are indeed learning from some of their past mistakes. Those blackfin DSPs are serious stuff. |
Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 23 January 2009 at 1:35pm
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Seems very good for the cash. Now if only it didn't say Behringer on the front... can't see many big name DJs being happy with it just because of that. I see they took a cue from the Pioneer on the number of red lights too! Also, where did you find it for £250? Behringer site lists RRP as £367.00 |
Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 23 January 2009 at 3:12pm
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http://www.djkit.co.uk/product.php?id=3755 - http://www.djkit.co.uk/product.php?id=3755 £250 there, very tempting, djs shouldnt complain too muchs its laid out just like a DJM, i wonder if you can disable some things to make it easyer for them? Would be very interested to see if and how and when its possable to clip the gain stages, i have feeling the channels wont clip due to high digital headroom, but can you clip the outputs? ------------- James Secker facebook.com/soundgearuk James@soundgear.co.uk www.soundgear.co.uk |
Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 23 January 2009 at 3:44pm
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I've just actually bothered counting - 7 red lights on the output! It's the MIDI that I'm really interested in though. If they've done it properly, like the NUO4, rather than the dodgy as hell MIDIrules requiring BCD series stuff then it's very, very attractive. |
Posted By: nineleaves
Date Posted: 23 January 2009 at 5:01pm
..judicious use of some black elecrtricians tape will sort that, or a really dingy dj booth  bought from blue aran, as ive dealt with them before.. quoted someone who had an in stock price of £250 and they matched. since then others have some prices listed low. £235 at these folks: http://www.ukdj.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=38711 quote them and see if theyll match, otherwise buy from them or other people you can find from a google/google shopping search ;) |
toastyghost wrote:Posted By: nineleaves
Date Posted: 23 January 2009 at 5:24pm
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clipping the inputs.. unfortunately the little channel meters arent currently post eq & insert fx; however they are setup for the premise that so long as you keep them in the orange, the full extent of the eq boost wont (usually) cause clipping. this is another 9db on three red leds. you can run those right up to beyond that point when using no eq boost (the top red light flashes to indicate out of scale). the clipping only usually occurrs when using excessive bass boost when red lights on a channel strip are on; whilst its not as graceful as analog desk clipping, its not as harsh as you might expect :) |
Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 23 January 2009 at 10:00pm
| Any chance you could do the tests that I believe norty did on a DJM800? Recording a waveform with everything up to max to see if it's clipped? |
Posted By: nineleaves
Date Posted: 23 January 2009 at 10:23pm
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well, your incoming and outgoing bandwidth is 24bit (144db), most signal sources are 16bit (96db), the intermediary headroom in the dsp would appear to be the full 32 bit (a very large number) ..so, when the incoming signal is correctly scaled for 1:1 it shouldnt loose any resolution, nor waste any headroom & have some leeway in the middle :) im short of time this evening and weekend, tho ill do a gain structure test and post on it later.. im curious too :) in the meantime, id like to reccomend getting distracted by the coen bros film, raising arizona ..absolute classic, with nicolas cage before he was 'someone' ;) |
Posted By: wafflesomd
Date Posted: 23 January 2009 at 10:43pm
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I bought one when it was first released. Awesome piece of kit. |
Posted By: mk2_ginger_biscuit69
Date Posted: 24 January 2009 at 12:50pm
 most interesting and usefull thread ive seen on here in a LONG time. Top marks too you!!
and yes, the build is surprising for 250quid! it amazes me how companys can build things like this for so damn little. theres so much going on and so many components, mass production is a beast not to be reckoned with.
thankyou for the origional post
 |
Posted By: nineleaves
Date Posted: 24 January 2009 at 12:55pm
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:) smt automated assembly that litterally allows manifacturers to print products has helped with the scales of economy & made things somewhat more compact. however behringer really shouldnt be selling this so cheaply; kind of their philosphy tho to stack them high & sell lots of them at a slim profit. ..so ill let them get on with it & be glad of the matter ;) |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 24 January 2009 at 3:28pm
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Thing is that if they are good enough then hire firms will start to get them anyway, so DJ's will have no choice but to become familiar with them. And then you're part of the way to an 'industry standard' item.......
I can see them being listed on riders now - Berry DDM mixer NOTHING ELSE WILL DO! ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 24 January 2009 at 4:20pm
And at least you can afford to buy six for when they invariably go bang in the middle of a gig |
Posted By: nineleaves
Date Posted: 24 January 2009 at 9:20pm
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whilst it might be quite humorous to prose the idea of anything behringer becoming a mandatory must have which the industry depends on; they do manage to make the occasional exceptional product which exceeds their usual middle of the road standards. back in the 90's their 19" compressor racks were everywhere, hire companys up and down the land had droves of them as i can only assume they were affordable & did the job to a high standard ;) now, their dcx2496 digital crossovers seem to be becoming an accepted standard where someone doesnt feel the need to be visably seen with a very pricey bss or the likes in the rack; as yet again, they are affordable & do the job really well ;) I suspect the ddm 4000 could catch on somewhat too, however i figure the prejudices against its branding in a more visable post will weigh heavily against it... even when it does deliver. Whats that quote from shakesphere again about 'a rose by any other name ? ;) as for the reliability issue, it was initially down to afew bad connector choices in new product & letting some bad smps supply designs out the door too early on.. causing the mucho exciting failiures on their part. they have however resolved this now and they seem super reliable ;) however yes at this price, you can sling a spare one in the backup box & know that come failiure or dj with a pint.. youll not be too heavily out of pocket to keep things running :) |
Posted By: B.P.Sound
Date Posted: 25 January 2009 at 3:58pm
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Thanks for that I've just bought 4 DJM800's could have used the same money to buy another D12 and 4 berrys. I bet it has 4 x phono in's as well unlike the DJM800 ------------- http://www.londoneventrentals.co.uk/ https://www.facebook.com/LondonEventRentals |
Posted By: nineleaves
Date Posted: 25 January 2009 at 4:20pm
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Posted By: wafflesomd
Date Posted: 25 January 2009 at 5:27pm
| I love being able to map the buttons to whatever I want in VirtualDJ/Traktor/Etc. It doubles as a midi controller. |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 25 January 2009 at 6:17pm
Please don't take my comments as a slating of it. I'm a Berry fan, being a DCX user and owning a number of Composers and EQ's by them, all of which I'm happy with. ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: SteveAATW
Date Posted: 25 January 2009 at 6:41pm
| What's the build quality like? The main problem with the DJM-600 clone wasn't really the sound quality more that it fell to bits after 10 seconds of being used |
Posted By: nineleaves
Date Posted: 25 January 2009 at 6:50pm
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i like berry, tho like many i also recognise that they've more than taken libertys over 'cloning' other manifs products in the past & that quality control / build can be iffy from time to time. i however do applaud them muchly so when they pull their thumbs out and come out with something 'original' & of high quality ;) :) |
Posted By: nineleaves
Date Posted: 25 January 2009 at 7:13pm
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these ddm's are built like a sodding tanks ;) time will tell on fader reliability ..but can be replaced dead easy with something known :) there were issues with the djm-600 clone in that the faders were too smooth & free moving to use ! & curves were fixed & wrong according to many. also the effects didnt allow a sufficent level to be applied for some folks tastes. various things. |
Posted By: nineleaves
Date Posted: 15 February 2009 at 9:18pm
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Hi again, finally had the time to run some diagnostics on this little unit to determine how far it can be pushed signal wise & heres the results gleaned with passable, but less than optimal equipment. when discounting what anomalous distortion the measuring equipment adds to the data, id have to say this mixer certainly should perform pretty much to its spec sheet breakdown :) the behringer blampf: AUDIO INPUTS Mic 1/2 (XLR, electronically balanced) Max. input level -14 dBu Input impedance 2 kΩ Phono (RCA) Max. input level -18 dBu Input impedance 47 kΩ Line (RCA) Max. input level +30 dBu Input impedance 15 kΩ AUDIO OUTPUTS OUT A (XLR, balanced) Max. output level +21 dBu Output impedance 200 Ω OUT A / OUT B / TAPE (RCA) Max. output level +21 dBu Output impedance 100 Ω Phones Out max. 260 mW @ 100 Ω / 1 % THD S/PDIF (coaxial, 16 bit, 44.1 kHz) EQUALIZER Stereo Low -? dB/+12 dB Stereo Mid -? dB/+12 dB Stereo High -? dB/+12 dB Mic Low -12 dB/+12 dB, Shelving Mic Mid -12 dB/+12 dB, Peak Mic High -12 dB/+12 dB, Shelving DIGITAL EFFECTS PROCESSOR DSP 2x Analog Devices Black Fin AD/DA converter 24-bit Sigma-Delta/128-times oversampling/Cirrus Sampling rate 44.1 kHz LCD display 320 x 40 pixel MIDI interface 5-pin DIN jacks In/Out/Thru SYSTEM SPECIFICATIONS Frequency response Mic 25 Hz – 20 kHz, +0/-3 dB Phono 20 Hz – 20 kHz, +0/-3 dB Line 20 Hz – 20 kHz, +0/-3 dB Signal-to-noise ratio Mic > 87 dB Phono > 83 dB Line > 102 dB Distortion (THD) < 0,009 % (Line – OUT A) Crosstalk < -80 dB / 1 kHz (Line) POWER SUPPLY Mains voltage / fuse 100 – 240 V~, 50/60 Hz T 1 A H 250 V Power consumption max. 20 W Mains connector standard IEC receptacle DIMENSIONS/WEIGHT Dimensions (H x W x D) approx. 4 1/3" x 12 3/5" x 15 1/2" (110 mm x 320 mm x 392 mm) Weight approx. 9.3 lbs. (4.2 kg) MY Blamf: the simple, general rule of thumb gleaned from the bench testing below: * keep input signals on or below the yellow 0db mark to maximise resolution/quality of incoming signal, whilst allowing sufficent internal overhead to prevent effects and eqs clipping. * keep output below +8db for cleanest sound, try setting the gain of your pa to match this (with limiting applyed beyond this). * definately do not exceed 12db if you want your sound to remain clean. * itll sound crap & youll probably break things attached to this, if you push it waay into the clip region ;) The full breakdown: NOTE: measured with ARTA & Saffire le soundcard, performance of unit may well be higher on accounts of distortion & noise floor.. as the figures quoted will include what marginal hash it generates too. disregard the 156hz peak, this seems to have nothing to do with the mixer. Also noise & 1k sine sources used as an arbatary standard of sorts for these tests, no notable increase/decrease in distortion was noted with changing frequencys. dig out: * noise floor - -105db 100hz, 4.1k, -110db 20k, -83.5db * 1.15v pulse train, well defined edges. Line IN (ch1): line modes: * full gain without raised output noise floor. * With max gain - +14dbu/(-12dbfs)/1.81v (at 1k) without clipping. (shows +9 clipping on ddm) * gain trim range - 40db * freq resp appears to be ruler flat phono mode: * max gain noise floor - -75db 100hz, -94db 7k, -85db 20k output a: * +21 dbu before distortion. * +8db on ddm meter (11v) cleanest sound setting. - (THD 0.011%, 21 dbu) * +12db on ddm meter (14.5v) max 'clean' setting. - (THD 0.028%, 23.5 dbu) * clip starts to flicker on ddm meter (23v). - (THD 0.83%, 27.5 dbu) * beyond clip on ddm (27v) power rail limit. - (THD 1.63%, 29 dbu) * 27v peak, for 11v out (knob at 12 o clock) before marginal distortion rise. * opamp lower power rail seems to collapse before upper. * any output level, neglegible noise floor does not rise. * scope measured hf noise, mostly out of audio band: 22mv/rms aprox, 45mv peak. output b: * +21 dbu before distortion. * same breakdown as above. * any output level, neglegible noise floor does not rise. * scope measured hf noise, mostly out of audio band: 1500 NS cycle semi random sine noise (666.66KHZ) 115mv rms, 190mv peak tape output: as with b, but gain fixed to 1:1. headphones: 15.5v out - clean output (+20.5dbu, thd 0.025) 18.5v clip limit (+25.5dbu, thd 0.11) (no load) Digital out, idle all inputs set to minimum level. Phono in mode, with gain set to maximum. Standard eq settings, low and high set to max gain. Standard eq settings, mid set to max gain. Standard eq settings, low and high set to min gain. interestingly, the cuts slope rather than shelf as with gain. after a little thought i concluded this is probably a better idea ;) Standard eq settings, mid set to min gain. around about -70db dip. output a, at 11.5v. output a, at 14.5v. output a, at 23v. output a, at 27v. rail limit. headphone out 15.5v (no load) headphone out 18.5v (no load) |
Posted By: ceharden
Date Posted: 15 February 2009 at 9:38pm
| They do seem to have missed off the digital inputs though. I like being able to connect CDJ's to DJM800's using SPDIF and thus avoiding the chance of the inputs being overdriven. |
Posted By: nineleaves
Date Posted: 15 February 2009 at 9:41pm
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yeah, that is quite annoying, its a whole other chip to jam in there to add that tho. frankly id like to see stacks of digital ins on all digi mixers.. tho the buggers (the whole industry) hasnt exactly embraced the sensible concept of avoiding multiple (a>d)>(d>a) processes. there is a simple rule of thumb to keep it out of clip mode garanteed, dont push the level on the ins beyond 0db and you wont overload the desk period, eq boosts included :) read back over this for the gain structure :) |
Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 13 May 2010 at 1:42am
 Had one of these briefly demo'd to me recently & from what I heard & saw, I agree too!
Anyone else tried them yet?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiAR1d_eKcc&feature=related - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiAR1d_eKcc&feature=related
 ------------- **Heavy Weight-Line** A home without books is like a body with no soul. |
Posted By: paulus
Date Posted: 13 May 2010 at 10:24am
my only experiance was with the first one they did in light grey, pioneer copy,swapped the old djm 500 for the beri,changed no settings on x over and it did sound like some one had put a damp flannal over the compression drivers but seems like this one is a big improvment
------------- TRENDSETTER SOUND SYSTEM |
Posted By: nineleaves
Date Posted: 13 May 2010 at 12:27pm
 ah, yes.. thatll be the djx-700 ..everything about that one was -awful- ..really badly thought through. Can assure you the ddm 4000 is a different kettle of fish. Its pretty typical of behringer really, they make a handful of really good products, afew exceptional ones ..and then when they make lemons ..they dont half ! |
Posted By: AndyWave
Date Posted: 14 May 2010 at 8:19am
| Thanks for useful bits of information. |
Posted By: Beatdaddy
Date Posted: 10 May 2011 at 9:43pm
| I'm thinking about getting one for gigs, anymore updates on reliability? |
Posted By: starstruck
Date Posted: 10 May 2011 at 10:06pm
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Ive been DJing with one since they first came out. Zero problems, build qualitys great, sound quality is great, and tons of great features. I swear by it. Ive had several 'Pioneer' only guys say they loved it . Im even thinking about buying a second one to cover a bunch of hires Ive got coming up. Kev ------------- www.giantwii.co.uk - well somebodies got to do it :o) |
Posted By: Beatdaddy
Date Posted: 10 May 2011 at 10:27pm
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Cool then! I'll pick one up. Been using a Djm 400 for our gigs , but need more channels. Looks nice next to the pioneer cdj's :) |
Posted By: Beatdaddy
Date Posted: 01 July 2011 at 10:04pm
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Just picked one up, and I have to say incredible! Tomorrow it goes out to out gig :) |
Posted By: nineleaves
Date Posted: 01 July 2011 at 10:36pm
| Yup, they are awesome value for money, have afew inconsiquential niggles, but if you cant afford the top end pioneer stuff its a great way to get into that level of mixing fun ..i need to dust mine off again sometime and have a play. Quality bit of kit :) |
Posted By: Beatdaddy
Date Posted: 01 July 2011 at 11:42pm
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i have a question for anyone who wants to answer it ..... i have been running a djm400 with mono out into a driverack pa, then a single cable out to each amp weather bridged or paralell . if i want to use the stereo xlr on output a on ddm4000 can i still use only one signal to each amp? for example just using the left high, mid, and low, or is summed outs the only way to do that?
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Posted By: trapz72
Date Posted: 02 July 2011 at 8:47am
| If your system is a mono set up then I would stick with using the mono out on the mixer. The dbx pa will only sum the bass so you would lose one side of the mid and top. |
Posted By: kevinmcdonough
Date Posted: 02 July 2011 at 10:56am
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hey Although I have moved away from DJing now and probably wont get round to buying this, it gives me great hope for the new 32 channel digital desk that berry is also just coming out with. Hopefully they have spent the same time and care on it and it will be a similar level of quality, could be very handy for some of the smaller and cheaper work I have coming up. k |
Posted By: nineleaves
Date Posted: 02 July 2011 at 11:08am
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Theres another reason to expect the new 32 chan digi from them to be decent ...they bought out two massive players in the FX & Console markets ..Midas and Klark Teknik; and it appears to be their team who where set the task of developing it. Have two of their old ddx3216 yamaha type desks, and found them to be pretty decent; this however is in another league potentially as far as behringer goes. Hopefully they will price it as competitively as behringer usually does ..will sit it out and see, do rather like the look of the thing. |
Posted By: kevinmcdonough
Date Posted: 02 July 2011 at 12:07pm
even better :-) I had thought that by the time the midas/KT deal had went thought, the x32 must have already been in planning/development and that they would have had only a little input into the design/features. But if they had a heavy hand in it then so much the better! :-) k |
Posted By: nineleaves
Date Posted: 02 July 2011 at 12:31pm
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They probably where yes, but left to their own devices i suspect it would of come out more yamaha LS series like. I meerly speculate, as that really doesnt 'look' like a behringer design; furthermore its advertised as having a Klark Tekniks effect engine. |
Posted By: Beatdaddy
Date Posted: 03 July 2011 at 4:36pm
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We ran the setup in mono yesterday using the B outs, the main meters as a reference and the main and B pots in the 12:00 position. That left everything in the last yellow... It sounded perfect ! Very warm! Mic is definitely very hot! The fx are worth the price alone! I used the sampler section more than I have on a mixer before, way fun! Thanks for the helpful insight =) |
Posted By: Beatdaddy
Date Posted: 04 July 2011 at 3:24am
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I just ordered a hosa mic attenuator . It has 3 settings -20, -30, -40db ! This will hopefully cure the mic ? |
Posted By: nineleaves
Date Posted: 04 July 2011 at 10:38am
| cant say ive encountered this problem, seem to remember both mic channels having fully functional attenuator trims. but in anycase that widget should offer sufficient attenuation. |
Posted By: Beatdaddy
Date Posted: 08 July 2011 at 5:53pm
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May just be the mic we use is running through effects and pedals? The ddm4000 does sound better than the djm400 we were using, and the effects are pretty amazing. I also like the fact that after a few other dj's get done with it , I can restore my user preset..
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Posted By: Beatdaddy
Date Posted: 08 July 2011 at 5:54pm
| OH yahh, the notorious blue leds are now green on the new model! |
Posted By: nineleaves
Date Posted: 08 July 2011 at 5:59pm
Yeah, thatll be why.. as the mic input is designed with amplifying a quiet source in mind. Usually when plugging an already amplified feed in you have to knock the gain right down. usually on the bigger desks aimed at studio work you can effectively attenuate for hot balanced sources like effects no problem. This one may present an issue :) On Green:Blue leds ...bout damn time :) ..though they could of just changed the resistor values for those ones ..hehe. Guess blues going out of fashion a little since they became cheaper now. |
Posted By: Beatdaddy
Date Posted: 08 July 2011 at 10:04pm
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We are going to try the mic attenuator out tonight, Only $20.00.. |
Posted By: Beatdaddy
Date Posted: 18 July 2011 at 1:19am
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Sounded good ! I'm going to get one more for home , wife and I both like playin on it. The filters rock, my djm will be my spare :) |
Posted By: nineleaves
Date Posted: 18 July 2011 at 1:22am
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have a play with the sweepable filter applyable in the FX section, if i remember right that one sounds pretty fat :) Also, the De-rezzing lo-fi digital one is much fun. |
Posted By: djfred
Date Posted: 19 July 2011 at 2:19pm
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just bought one after reading this thread and not previously considering it due to being an ex-owner of a djx-700 and seeing several djx-700s go the same way as mine did. so thanks! ------------- 120-140bpm. pianos and bass. diesel; the fuel of professionals. |
Posted By: torch1
Date Posted: 19 July 2011 at 3:22pm
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Great review! The effort is much appreciated. We're in the market for a new mixer at the moment and this might have swayed me towards Berry . . . I didn't think that was going to happen! |
Posted By: nineleaves
Date Posted: 19 July 2011 at 3:34pm
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Its one of several products they do which really doesnt deserve to humiliation of bearing their name ;) Supprisingly Behringer can from time to time pull some truely exceptional (as opposed to meerly acceptable) products out of the hat, at their usual scandalously cheap asking prices. This lil mixer deserves all the legups it can get :) |
Posted By: Beatdaddy
Date Posted: 03 August 2011 at 3:13pm
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I wonder if they will have a new ddm ? Or will the nox mixer be the replacement? |
Posted By: nineleaves
Date Posted: 03 August 2011 at 3:19pm
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Nah, the NOX606 sofar just looks like a middle ground solution.. its nice for sure, but not directly comparable :) the NOX is geared towards users who want something a tad more technical than the average mixer, but not as complicated to understand and work with as something as fully featured as the ddm. Unless they can think of some segnificant updates to do to the ddm4000, it will probably stay just as it is for a good while ..hard to offer much more in one mixer package ;) :) |
Posted By: Beatdaddy
Date Posted: 03 August 2011 at 6:51pm
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Maybe a ddm5000 with a soundcard :) The current model does have a ton of usable goodies! |
Posted By: kedwardsleisure
Date Posted: 03 August 2011 at 7:39pm
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saw a knackered DDM4000 on the bay a couple of weeks ago ------------- Kevin North Staffordshire |
Posted By: Beatdaddy
Date Posted: 19 August 2011 at 8:27pm
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Just ordered an infinium fader for it!!! Can't wait to try it out =) was only $56 us shipped. |
Posted By: Beatdaddy
Date Posted: 23 August 2011 at 6:28pm
Installed it today... Amazing! Came with a nicer fader cap as well, more like a pioneer's.
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Posted By: Beatdaddy
Date Posted: 05 September 2011 at 11:17pm
Found a way to solv e the nameplate scare?
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Posted By: nineleaves
Date Posted: 05 September 2011 at 11:20pm
| hehe... approves :) |
Posted By: Beatdaddy
Date Posted: 06 September 2011 at 12:32am
| Sorry bout the feet :) |
Posted By: J.C
Date Posted: 17 September 2011 at 12:29pm
| Has anyone got any info on the NOX range that Behringer have bought out? If it was the same build quality as the DDM I might be up for taking a punt. |
Posted By: Beatdaddy
Date Posted: 18 September 2011 at 1:16am
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They come with the infinium! They look like a great one too, curious about it myself. |
Posted By: nineleaves
Date Posted: 18 September 2011 at 1:42am
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NOX Range - no idea about the build, probably quite ok now.. its a simplifyed version with all the complicated bells and whilstles stripped out for people less concerned with technical mixing and having many gizmos at hand. Or, looking at it another way, a mixer thats less likely to confuse the shit out of some of us i guess ;) :) ..the ddm is quite a complex beast, but that pays off if you put that extra flexability to use. |
Posted By: Beatdaddy
Date Posted: 18 September 2011 at 9:07pm
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The nice thing about all the blinking lights is the ddm becomes easiest to use at night, at least compared to my djm. |
Posted By: djfred
Date Posted: 19 September 2011 at 12:44pm
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can anyone who has one of these do me a favour? first check the firmware version(press load button) next, set up the crossfader so it is on, and say chan 1+2 are on A, and 3+4 are on B. save settings, power cycle mixer, load settings. do your crossfader settings get loaded? they don't for me, and this is a pain in the ass ------------- 120-140bpm. pianos and bass. diesel; the fuel of professionals. |
Posted By: Beatdaddy
Date Posted: 21 September 2011 at 2:08am
| I'll check tomorrow. |
Posted By: Beatdaddy
Date Posted: 21 September 2011 at 2:09am
| I know you want to select the channel before turning on xfader! |
Posted By: Beatdaddy
Date Posted: 22 September 2011 at 3:04pm
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Version 1.02 Dec 14 2007 Does not save x-fader settings! |
Posted By: Beatdaddy
Date Posted: 29 September 2011 at 2:06am
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I've become very fond of using a hp filter along with an echo in my mixes!!! Dual fx engines are fun! |
Posted By: distro
Date Posted: 30 September 2011 at 2:46pm
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Nice! Pretty interesting to see whats in there :) |
Posted By: ShokZi
Date Posted: 24 September 2012 at 9:44am
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picked up one off a mate coz i heard it had a compressor on the mics (i work with dnb MC's who just LOVE screaming down the mic) and i love everything about it! the only thing i would possibly change is to add a usb interface... since iv had it its taken a bit of a battering but it seems to live through it quite well. If berry keep this up they may lose that really bad name they have for themselves. just my 2p
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Posted By: snowflake
Date Posted: 29 September 2012 at 1:01pm
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my mate has one of these but unfortunately the gain pots are really knackered which is a bit worrying as it can't be that old. anyone else had any issues with reliability? anyone got an idea of how easy they are to repair? not a bad mixer but way too many buttons for my liking. especially those push button eq kills round the crossfader - way too easy to touch by accident.
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Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 04 October 2012 at 5:36pm
I thought it could be configured and used as a totally midi interface, and so assumed it had USB connectivity. Or do they use 'old fashioned' midi ports? ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: bitSmasher
Date Posted: 05 October 2012 at 9:14am
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Ahh I remember being laughed at by a salesman when I asked for MIDI cables, him talking about old junk synths... pretty sure the $300 digital toys they sold are trying to emulate "old junk" synths worth 10x that now. But yeah, 5 pin MIDI ports on the back. I bought one of these to use primarily with MIDI control next to a V8 video mixer, impressive specs for the price - just wish it had FX/AUX sends per channel, but that's a bit much to ask for a DJ mixer Unfortunately the ferrite had dislodged and was clanging around the case when I received it, had to pull it apart straight away and make use of the hot glue gun. Build quality impressed me for the price too. |
Posted By: vjs1987
Date Posted: 09 November 2012 at 5:14am
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Not sure if anyone can help me here, I just got an infinium x1 optical fader to replace my old one in the ddm4000 which has been a great mixer and after plugging it in the new fader does not effect the audio at all. The infinium x1 gets very hot and i can see that the display looses brightness when the fader is plugged in. There is also a hissing noise coming from the smps. Any help would be greatly appreciated. |
Posted By: Sabbelbacke
Date Posted: 09 November 2012 at 7:55am
| I would consult the manufacturer of the fader, how much power it usualy draws out of the power supply and if its normal that it´s getting hot. My guess there is something broken on the power curcuit of the fader, the hissing noise might be an indicator for that. |
Posted By: herenow
Date Posted: 16 July 2013 at 9:44pm
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Hi there, I purchased a Behringer DDM4000 a while back and am using it with a pair of Reloop Contour controllers in Traktor 2.6.2. It is a great setup for midi, would be nice if there were a few improvements, but there is one thing that is essential. I was wondering if anyone would know if it is possible to disable the audio output on one channel. I am using 4 channels as midi, with 2 channels muted. The other 2 channels I am using for the master output and the monitor output. This enables me to assign the midi controls for all PFL monitoring that I need in Traktor and use the Headphone Jack as normal. The ONLY issue with this, is that the Audio on the Monitor Channel also outputs to the main outs. (what each channel actually needs is a physical mute button, and then this setup would work perfectly.) What I was wondering is if anyone knew of a way to either add a mute button on the main out on one channel (still be able to monitor the signal on that channel with the headphones though) or simply cut some wire to the main out and never use it again. If this was possible.... I would be very happy. I have some electronic experience, but I don't want to take the thing apart myself if I am just wasting my time. Thanks, Joe.
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Posted By: Sabbelbacke
Date Posted: 17 July 2013 at 8:46am
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I am not sure if I understand correctly... You simply want to mute one of the output channels? Why not simply unplug the cable? |
Posted By: lincolndj
Date Posted: 19 April 2014 at 2:57pm
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Hi guys, hope you don't mind the post resurrection! But I decided to sign up to this forum on the strength of this post alone - thanks for the great in-depth write-up nineleaves!! Anyway - I've recently acquired one of these cheap and all is fine - except the for the headphone output. Right-side is fine, but left side is very VERY quiet. I've swapped L and R on different RCAs, different headphones etc - and cue split is not activated. With just left RCA plugged in it can be heard but only very quietly. Is this likely a knackered op-amp? I see there's 2 so maybe one for left and one for right? Or could it just be the 1/4" socket? Any ideas greatly appreciated, any further checks I can do etc? Cheers! |
Posted By: nineleaves
Date Posted: 19 April 2014 at 3:07pm
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Check socket first & reset the software configuration.. the opamps used are fairly robust; a last shot after eliminating everything else, if comfortable with soldering try swapping over the opamps to determine if one is at fault ..iirc, there are afew people out there selling them, looked them up ages ago. |
Posted By: nineleaves
Date Posted: 19 April 2014 at 3:08pm
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A typical one to keep an eye out for is theres a headphone mode that puts one signal in one ear, one in the other for monitoring, check thats not engaged ! |
Posted By: Sabbelbacke
Date Posted: 19 April 2014 at 3:08pm
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If you double checked the inputs (RCA), the hedaphones, etc... .then in most oft the times its the socket itself. Open the mixer an check if signal is present at the soldering points of the headphone socket, maybe it´s a loos or cracked soldeirng point. If present and if re-soldering doesn´t fix the problem, change the socket. Are you familiar with changing und checking OP-Amps? |
Posted By: lincolndj
Date Posted: 19 April 2014 at 3:49pm
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thanks for the replies guys. the split-mode is definitely not activated. and factory reset has been done. not familiar with checking op-amps, only a little theory at college. I've only got a basic digital multi-meter so can check ac/dc voltage, current, resistance. to check the socket connection I guess I'm going to need something plugged in with wire exposed so i can get a connection? Cheers |
Posted By: lincolndj
Date Posted: 19 April 2014 at 4:13pm
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OK - i plugged in a jack to rca into the headphone socket. getting <0.2 ohm between the 3 wires soldiered onto the socket PCB (earth L and R) and the respective ends of my rca plugged into it - so it would appear the socket is fine from that i guess? |
Posted By: studio45
Date Posted: 19 April 2014 at 4:14pm
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Put a 50Hz test tone through it at 0dB and you should be able to measure 0.775v AC with your multimeter at all the points there is good line-level signal. Headphone output should be a couple of volts. You need to use 50Hz as unless it's a very good true-RMS meter, it's only accurate for 50Hz, not music signal. Or, chop the plug off a pair of headphones to expose the wires, ground the ground wire, tin the end of one ear's positive lead with solder to stiffen it - then use it as a probe to see if the headphone amp is giving out a good signal on both channels, by carefully touching it to the appropriate pins of the chip.
------------- Studio45 - Repairs & Building Commotion Soundsystem -Mobile PA |
Posted By: kedwardsleisure
Date Posted: 19 April 2014 at 5:48pm
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is the headphone pot ok? ------------- Kevin North Staffordshire |
Posted By: lincolndj
Date Posted: 19 April 2014 at 6:05pm
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I'll have a play with a 50hz wave after this weekend, gunna be busy today/tomorrow. interesting comment regarding the pot. I assume the device is actually controlling 2 variable resistances? (that should be changing the same amount with each other) the left channel does change in volume with the pot slightly (right channel unplugged so you can actually hear it) so maybe that is knackered. guess I just do a resistance check at the pins of the pot and look for similar changes on each of the left and right channels on the pot? Cheers again guys. |
Posted By: kedwardsleisure
Date Posted: 20 April 2014 at 6:47pm
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I havent seen the diagram for the mixer but I'm guessing the pot is a stereo one. Most digital mixers of course use voltage control and a mono pot but the behringer...well ------------- Kevin North Staffordshire |
Posted By: lincolndj
Date Posted: 29 April 2014 at 9:35pm
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hi folks, have finally got round to taking apart - just wondering if it would be expected that the pins on the dual volume pot would be typical of all dual pots? there's 6 pins and picking one at random on the RS catalog shows pins 1, 2 and 6 belong together, and 3, 4 & 5 for the other "channel". is this typical? anyone know what i should expect to see resistance-wise on this pot please? there is a pic of the pot here (VR26) - https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/30091626/misc/pot.JPG Cheers! |
Posted By: lincolndj
Date Posted: 29 April 2014 at 10:33pm
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further update. based on the assumption the pins on these headphone pots are the same as the pots I've seen on the RS website then I get the following pot resistances (multimeter set to 2k range) https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/30091626/misc/pot%20values.jpg from that it certainly looks like the "inner" section is not changing as the knob is moved. at loud volume i was hearing some quiet sound in my left ear (right ear blaring out) but i'm assuming this is just some sort of bleed on the pot/headphone socket/my headphones... gotta be worth changing it out if i can get a new pot cheap surely?? how would i know i'm buying the right one - would one expect a marking on the underside to indicate the total resistance and taper type etc? Cheers! |
Posted By: lincolndj
Date Posted: 29 April 2014 at 11:30pm
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ok schoolboy error. used the meter set at 200k and now get values of 50k ohms when turned fully CCW. full values here: so it looks like it's a 50k pot, with some sort of non-linear resistance taper :) only issue i have now, looking at the data sheet i've found, is that mine is a 30mm shaft, which only seems to be available in 10 or 20k, or a 50k that is listed for use with tone as opposed to volume. so I guess next query is.... what do i replace it with! Cheers |
Posted By: lincolndj
Date Posted: 12 May 2014 at 12:01pm
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hi guys. just an update for any future reference. really struggled to find a 50k ohm dual (stereo) channel pot that had a log taper. closest I could find was from an ebay seller from hong kong. (search "Single Linear Type 6 Terminals Rotary Taper Potentiometer B50K 50K Ohm" to find) the legs were also too wide, i didnt want to open out the PCB holes so ended up shortening them, keeping the old pot legs on and soldering them together - a right bodge job! lol it's done the trick though, all fixed for £1.88 delivered :) |
Posted By: kedwardsleisure
Date Posted: 13 May 2014 at 6:24pm
 ------------- Kevin North Staffordshire |
Posted By: escapemcp
Date Posted: 13 February 2015 at 4:13pm
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I have the same headphone volume issue - mine needs a whack to get it to play ball again. May have to bodge it also :)
Apart from that, best mixer (I've) ever (owned)
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Posted By: deejaymarco
Date Posted: 21 May 2015 at 2:58pm
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Hi all! My mixer, DDM4000 started doing this than one year. I have not yet opened to check power source. What do you think? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrUznU5gZ84
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