Neutrik Powercon
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Category: General
Forum Name: Electro Frying Forum
Forum Description: Talk about drivers, processors and mixers
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=23570
Printed Date: 27 March 2026 at 7:15am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.08 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Neutrik Powercon
Posted By: audioman1
Subject: Neutrik Powercon
Date Posted: 02 February 2009 at 1:22pm
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Hi all,
A Neutrik Powercon is rated at 20A ...
Now i have run my 3 amps via a 4 way 13A extension for years... want to use a powercon now my amps are going into a rack together... there is no reason why this shouldn't be ok.? Im only asking, as those powercons are rather small.. can they really take a 20A load??
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Replies:
Posted By: djdarren
Date Posted: 02 February 2009 at 2:02pm
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The powecon will take 20a no probs. Just mak sure you don't connect them when live, there not desgned to do that. They also make a 32a version now :-) http://www.neutrik.com/uk/en/industry/204_2044822873/PowerCon%c2%ae_32_Amp_productlist.aspx - http://www.neutrik.com/uk/en/industry/204_2044822873/PowerCon%c2%ae_32_Amp_productlist.aspx |
Posted By: audioman1
Date Posted: 02 February 2009 at 2:08pm
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Fantastic... i figured it would be fine, considering they are rated as 20a, they just dont look it! Thanks |
Posted By: mk2_ginger_biscuit69
Date Posted: 02 February 2009 at 2:23pm
was chatting to ceharden about this last night. Its due to the old ceeforms having brass contacts, whereas the powercons use a silver plated contact, making a better lower resistance connection which thus means it can be nice and small ------------- ''Remember that the object of a subwoofer is to enhance the output of your main speakers, not overpower it'' ''Dubstep - an elongated electronic fart'' |
Posted By: audioman1
Date Posted: 02 February 2009 at 2:35pm
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Of course!! Genius! haha!
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Posted By: a1dl
Date Posted: 02 February 2009 at 7:02pm
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IMHO, the 32a powercon is the answer to a question no one ever asked.
The ceeform has long been the industry standard 32a SP connector, everyone has distros and trunks full of 6mm2 terminated with cees. Do we really want to have to start making up & carrying 32a cee-powercon jumpers, just in case?
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Posted By: smithers
Date Posted: 02 February 2009 at 7:25pm
i see what your point and although i never use 32a, i can agree with what your saying- but in their defense people probably said the same when they put their speakon connectors on the market....and now speakons are a proabaly the biggest "industry standard" bit of kit on the PA market, 99.9% of people use them. |
a1dl wrote:Posted By: audioman1
Date Posted: 02 February 2009 at 7:28pm
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My reason for picking a powercon, was because of rack space... i can still connect to the same load as i would with a Ceeform! I didn't mean to cause a fuss about it
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Posted By: ceharden
Date Posted: 02 February 2009 at 8:46pm
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Oh, we like to make a fuss on here! Just take a standard 4 way extension lead (should be one with a fuse fitted in it really) and wire it to the back of a powercon mounted on a patch panel. To make it even more useful, wire an outlet powercon in parallel so you can 'daisy chain' other equipment if necessary. |
Posted By: audioman1
Date Posted: 02 February 2009 at 9:28pm
that was my plan, as i have a 1U 16 way panel for D size connectors, wanted to use the last couple for powercons, rather than have to buy a second bigger panel for a ceeform!
thanks matey!
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Posted By: Peter Moller
Date Posted: 02 February 2009 at 11:08pm
I use the 32A powercon things inside my amprack - connecting the amps to the distro.. Nice and compact ( and incredibly expensive aswell - http://www.thomann.de/gb/neutrik_nac3fc_hc.htm - http://www.thomann.de/gb/neutrik_nac3fc_hc.htm ) wouldnt even consider them a replacement to the CEEforms, purely because of the price.. But imo they are a great option for wiring inside racks etc. where space can be a problem.. ------------- real phone no: +45 four zero six two four four nine eight ( using obvious anti phone spam encryption ) |
Posted By: James Tengo
Date Posted: 02 February 2009 at 11:27pm
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Do the amps you have need more than 20a each? Save a bit of cash by using the 20a versions http://www.thomann.de/gb/neutrik_nac3fcb_powercon.htm |
Posted By: Peter Moller
Date Posted: 03 February 2009 at 12:22am
Yes!.. Breakers feeding the amps are 32A, so using a 20A rated connector would be illegal.. Rack contains 2* Infnite 7V2 and 1* Infinite 8 V2...
/p ------------- real phone no: +45 four zero six two four four nine eight ( using obvious anti phone spam encryption ) |
Posted By: jonny4288
Date Posted: 03 February 2009 at 12:45pm
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was thinking of buying a distro with 32A ceeform one end and say 4-6 powercons and 3-4 13a sockets the other end as compact power distro. not seen many available though, |
Posted By: a1dl
Date Posted: 03 February 2009 at 1:10pm
Rubber Box will make you a bespoke distro with whatever inlet, outlets, breakers & metering you require.
Here's an example of a 20a powercon Rubber Box
http://www.rubberbox.co.uk/on-the-shelf/small-boxes/RUB1306P.php - http://www.rubberbox.co.uk/on-the-shelf/small-boxes/RUB1306P.php
Their products are high quality and customer service is second to none.
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Posted By: jonny4288
Date Posted: 03 February 2009 at 1:23pm
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was looking at those, look to be great boxes however been looking for a rackmount distro though http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Amprack-Distro-For-Funktion-one-Turbosound-XTA_W0QQitemZ230319728824QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_3?hash=item230319728824&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A3%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 that item is perfect!! |
Posted By: Heathrow_B_line
Date Posted: 03 February 2009 at 1:24pm
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Rubber boxes make good boxes... their products last a long time to, very robust ------------- Produce a killer sound. Take no prisoners. |
Posted By: djgorey
Date Posted: 03 February 2009 at 1:26pm
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On this subject. I can see that we can get Powercon sockets, but I haven't seen any powercon-powercon leads. My 2 Matrix XPs have powercon connectors, but I use a Powercon to plug lead.
Is there any benefit to getting Powercon/Powercon leads and connecting to powercon outlets?
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Posted By: audioman1
Date Posted: 03 February 2009 at 1:31pm
Ive not seen a powercon trailing socket... i think if you were to have a racked patching system, i would think powercon to powercon would benifit there... i.e... for plugging external units (mixer)... to a pre-wired mains patching system in a rack
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Posted By: djgorey
Date Posted: 03 February 2009 at 1:39pm
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I've not seen any powercon/powercon leads, let alone the trailing sockets.
What I have seen that I will probably get for my amps is a 32A Ceeform to 4 way (13A domestic sockets) trailing socket. £50 with a 3m lead on it. Keeps my amps on their own supply away from dimmers etc and an easy solution that even a DJ such as myself can handle.
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Posted By: audioman1
Date Posted: 03 February 2009 at 1:46pm
Might just as well get a 16A Ceeform, as i can't see a 4 way trailing bar carrying 32A, unless its a distro with relavent breakers between each socket to allow 13A load per socket...
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Posted By: djgorey
Date Posted: 03 February 2009 at 1:47pm
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Valid point - I'm just about to e-mail rubberbox now to ask them!
edit: spellllling!
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Posted By: audioman1
Date Posted: 03 February 2009 at 1:56pm
Just another point... to avoid being on the same circuit as lighting, ideally you would need a designated 32A feed direct from the breaker box/ generator of the venue... you will find most standard 13A points in venues are on a ring, so basically, all running on the same circuit... If theatrical lighting companies are involved, they should be aware of this and install accordingly, as they wouldn't be able to draw much from a standard mains ring either. A standard 6 x 10A dimmer, wired in single phase would require a 63A feed to achieve its full load.
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Posted By: djgorey
Date Posted: 03 February 2009 at 2:00pm
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Already checked that bit and the 32A outlets are independent and on their own ring at the venue I'm considering using it for |
Posted By: audioman1
Date Posted: 03 February 2009 at 2:03pm
Super! Just need yourself the distro then, and your away!
 ... |
Posted By: James Tengo
Date Posted: 03 February 2009 at 2:37pm
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Another supplier I can recomend is SES http://www.site-electrics.co.uk/ Cheaper than rubberbox generally, and they make custom 19" distros. There has been talk of a trailing socket for 20a powercons for a while now, but i've not seen them yet. I only use powercons for inside racks and installs. Pete Moller - Valid point, what is the highest current draw you've had with your infinites? My d&b D12 racks are 32a ceeform fed, then have 4 powercon outs each on a seperate 20a c rated breaker, built by ses. I also have a number of their "toblerone" boxes, which are 32a ceeform fed to 8x 13a sockets, no breakers involved. The reason these don't need breakers is that the feed should have a 32a breaker on it at source, and each 13a plugtop that goes into the distro has a fuse in it. As long as the wire inside is suitable for 32a current (or uses a ring architecture suitable for the current) then it is safe. Putting a 32a socket on a 4 way bar is not the same, as the bus bars inside standard 4 way blocks are usually not rated for a current higher than 13a. |
Posted By: audioman1
Date Posted: 03 February 2009 at 2:51pm
Of course! haha! Has been a long morning/afternoon!
Was thinking of the principle of the 32A - 2x 16A ceeform units i had, which are obviously unfused! My bad!  |
Posted By: Peter Moller
Date Posted: 08 February 2009 at 10:30pm
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I have seen the Inf8V2 draw peaks in excess of 26A ( wich was well scary on a pair of 4* 18" BMS loaded monster horns :-).. IIRC the datasheet says it can draw 36A..
/p ------------- real phone no: +45 four zero six two four four nine eight ( using obvious anti phone spam encryption ) |
Posted By: gwarntek
Date Posted: 09 February 2009 at 9:03pm
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Hi, I've aso been considering powercons for a few things, but is there any need unless you draw over 13 amps through that cable?? its not very cost effective converting some stuff right now, especially things that arent amps as theres really no need... Peace |
Posted By: Peter Moller
Date Posted: 09 February 2009 at 11:03pm
Using powercons where you could use regular ceeforms or 13A plugs would be a waste of money and would make it a bit harder to solve problems on site as powercons arent nearly as widely used as ceeforms or 13A plugs..
/p ------------- real phone no: +45 four zero six two four four nine eight ( using obvious anti phone spam encryption ) |
Posted By: gwarntek
Date Posted: 09 February 2009 at 11:13pm
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Yeah definitley. Theres gonna be no spare powercons lying around, and the same with IEC to IEC kettle thingy. Prob just stick with 13 amp standard uk plug to IEC kettle jobby for all equipment that uses it. People always have hundreds of these spare... Do amps that draw more than 13 amps have to use something rated higher then? Iv noticed powercons on matrix amps (and void???), but there must be a lot of amps that could potentiall pull more than 13 but are restricted by the mains. I do realise so can be unefficient though, and differences when comparing stated power output ratings and actual ratings. Peace
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Posted By: James Tengo
Date Posted: 09 February 2009 at 11:14pm
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The only things I use powercon connectors on are items with this connector on as manufactured, as it's usually spec'ed for a higher than 10a (IEC max IRRC) or for a small form locking connector (GLP Impression light for example). Some of the venues I go to for corporate jobs (Royal Lancs Hotel in London for example) use powercon outlets for their house technical mains, mostly in order to charge crews of the hire of powercon to 13a convertors. Aside from that most of my mains is all on 16a ceeform, with jumps to and from 13a, 15a, shuko and powercon for the required application. With regards to the powercon it was the joke that the description was in the name, powerCON, when it first came out as a non daisy chain connector would never knock the industry standard ceeform. They are however becoming more common as the small locking mains connector of choice for appliance inlets, with most common power cords i've seen go from a 16a connector to powercon. So no point in changing your existing setup, as the manufacturer didn't see the need in the original design |
Posted By: dlyxover
Date Posted: 10 February 2009 at 12:12am
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dose anyone know where to get good quality rubberized power cable, the really flexible stuff cheers ------------- Lignum_ww@icloud.com GNKaudio@icloud.com |
Posted By: gwarntek
Date Posted: 10 February 2009 at 12:27am
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Nice one james like someone else said, powercon is an answer to a question that no one asked. very true, but i wonder if people will all be using it in 10 years....
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Posted By: James Tengo
Date Posted: 10 February 2009 at 10:24am
I use H07RN-F cable for all my power requirements (apart from silicon on stage lanterns for the high temp reasons) usually from SES (www.site-electrics.co.uk) but there are cheaper places. There was a guy on ebay doing good prices on drums of 2.5mm. You may find it a bit pricey though, so if you can live with blue power cords then artic blue is more economical. For avalibility B&Q stock both 1.5mm and 2.5mm in my local store, but it's cheaper from an electrical wholeseller, like WF or Newley & Eire, who have branches nation wide. This is assuming you are uk based  |
Posted By: tallmike
Date Posted: 10 February 2009 at 11:22am
Hey Chris,
Powercon is actually the answer to mounting power connectors in standard 'd' type rack punchouts.
Also it's a far more sensible size than a 16a connector :)
Mike
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Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 10 February 2009 at 12:44pm
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Try primarc in reading for HO7 RN-f, they are cheap..... (also V cheap for stage lamps)
Just as an aside, if you planning on using powercans find out exactly how they should be wired..
Someone on ebay sold a panel with on white (outlet) and a load of blue (inlets) on, this is a death trap! You must always use the correct colour in the correct place. I may seem obvious, but in this very thread some one has wired up there amp racks with 32A PCons, this is fine if the amps have 32A Pcons on them but not allowed if you put the 32A connector on the amp cable and the socket on the distro as the 32a in only available in a chassis drain - line source configuratoration so reversing this could have very deadly results.
Also if mounting the things on a panel with audio connectors make sure the panel has a decent mains earth run to it and that the rear of the powercons is well insulated, tape is not good enough, the regs say that if elv (signal speaker) and LV (mains are in the same eclosure the ELV system should be insulated to mains standards (para-phrased there, not exact wording) but commonsense says we should have some kind of enclousure ove the mains wiring, I rivet a bit of 40x40 box section on with the ends welded up and cable glands in to let the power out.....
I am hoping this isn't news to anyone on here, but always worth being over cautous when it comes to the mains....
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Posted By: mk2_ginger_biscuit69
Date Posted: 10 February 2009 at 1:24pm
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yeah was wondering that, i have power con in on a patch panel with signal speaker and the mains on. I have used electrical isolation rated heatshrink over the contacts on the powercons, then gaffa'd over the whole back of the unit. is there a 'proper' way of enclosing this? Seems wierd to have a chassis mount mains socket without some kind of isolation included with them.
on a side note, can you get blancing panels for unused slots (xlr sized). i dont like empty slots.... ------------- ''Remember that the object of a subwoofer is to enhance the output of your main speakers, not overpower it'' ''Dubstep - an elongated electronic fart'' |
Posted By: James Tengo
Date Posted: 10 February 2009 at 1:31pm
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http://www.neutrik.com/uk/en/audio/210_1237834228/DBA-BL_detail.aspx |
Posted By: James Tengo
Date Posted: 10 February 2009 at 1:35pm
| And as for a solution to the isolation issue how about http://www.neutrik.com/uk/en/audio/210_542039095/SCDR_detail.aspx - this |
Posted By: mk2_ginger_biscuit69
Date Posted: 10 February 2009 at 3:30pm
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next question... where can i get 2x SCDR's? ------------- ''Remember that the object of a subwoofer is to enhance the output of your main speakers, not overpower it'' ''Dubstep - an elongated electronic fart'' |
Posted By: gwarntek
Date Posted: 10 February 2009 at 3:42pm
does this insulate electrically or just physcially?? can you even get electrical interference between powercons and speakons or xlrs in the same patch panel?? XLRs are balanced though so this means no interference? peace
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Posted By: gwarntek
Date Posted: 10 February 2009 at 3:44pm
thomann?? http://www.thomann.de/gb/neutrik_scdr.htm
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Posted By: mk2_ginger_biscuit69
Date Posted: 10 February 2009 at 3:54pm
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speakons i guess cant get interferance as they are plastic, XLR's could i guess as the earth is attached to the chassis which in turn is attached to the patch panel, and powercons are plastic. Ive already earthed my patch panel just in case. ------------- ''Remember that the object of a subwoofer is to enhance the output of your main speakers, not overpower it'' ''Dubstep - an elongated electronic fart'' |
Posted By: Peter Moller
Date Posted: 10 February 2009 at 4:06pm
That'd be me!
I am not sure what you mean the issue is?..
The 32A powercons are just like the 20A ones a 3 pin connector.. Yes, they are the wrong gender, but given the tight pack of my amprack and the fact that the connectors are inaccessible during setup and normal use, its not an issue - and these felt a lot safer than other compact, 32A rated options on the market..
/p
------------- real phone no: +45 four zero six two four four nine eight ( using obvious anti phone spam encryption ) |
Posted By: James Tengo
Date Posted: 10 February 2009 at 4:30pm
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Neither gender 20a powercons or the 32a versions have easily accessible live terminals, the differing keyways on the 20a powercon are to avoid cross patching a live feed to another live feed. The sockets are virtually identicle apart from the keying so (unlike a ceeform with exposed pins if reversed) how could there be potentially dangerous results? I'll agree that if the rack was to be sub-hired or dry-hired sticking with the standards would be prudent, but if it's only Peter using his rack, and there isn't the plug/socket avalible as a "B" version as the 20a powercons have, I would deem suitable for use and safe when operated with awareness. |
Posted By: gwarntek
Date Posted: 10 February 2009 at 4:35pm
can a speakon cable laying next to a power cable pick up any mains hum though? peace
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Posted By: tallmike
Date Posted: 10 February 2009 at 4:39pm
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nope...
our copper multicores have 1.5mm mains cable taped to them - that's at least 16 cores of signal cable right next to the mains over a minimim 50m run, and there's never a slight hint of mains hum!
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Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 10 February 2009 at 5:39pm
James kinda covered it but my point was more that if you do things like this, make bloody sure the kit is only used by either yourself or someone with common sense.
If the back of your rack has a grill on it that can only be removed with tools the assembly has no H&S probs at all. And I agree, using a 32A connector is better than a 20A one and no other 32A connector really lends itslef to internal rack wiring due to size.
The potential pob is if your rack was used by a muppet that had the 13A to 32A lead off his QSC and unplugged one of your amps and plugged it in thus getting 240V on the pins of his plug (you say a muppet would not have this lead, nut you forget fools are ingenious!!) or if some one saw your neat distro and built one to go behinf their rack of SKBs with loose amps in which would then be exposed.
I diliberatly didn't quote or name you when I made the post as you post here a lot and obviuosly know your onions, so all good...
The post was more a general, if you don't really know get someone who does for anyone reading the thread and thinking of doing a "version" of your well executed plan but without the thinking you have done....
I have seen a really nice MC2 rack with an EMO distro on it with a 13A socket on a 2U panel that the owner powered up with a 13A > 13A plug lead and couldn't see my point when I refused to connect it to the genset. The guy had done a really nice job, just didn't think about the "what if ...." bit...
So I hop e no offense to you Peter, but my point was well meant...
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Posted By: Peter Moller
Date Posted: 10 February 2009 at 10:09pm
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Let me just point out that the amprack in question has an onboard distro ( 32A 3 ph feed ) specifically built for the rack, and the 32A powercons used as outlets are not accessible without the use of tools.. On top of that, there are no extra 32A outlets, so no place to plug into without unplugging one of the amps first..
Trust me - I wasnt overly happy about spending a fortune on these connectors, but the alternative was to hardwire the amps to the distro and that'd be a mess in case I need to service them..
/p ------------- real phone no: +45 four zero six two four four nine eight ( using obvious anti phone spam encryption ) |
Posted By: chickenfizz
Date Posted: 11 February 2009 at 9:00am
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Wow I hadn't realised the 32a version weren't available in blue and grey pairs, that seems ridiculous to me, why would they not do that? |
Posted By: mk2_ginger_biscuit69
Date Posted: 14 February 2009 at 3:47pm
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my patch panel in progress, wired for balanced xlr input or unbalanced RCA phono in wired unbalanced to the XLR. much more simple to patch cheaper mixers etc.. 4core two way midtop speakon outs, two XLR outs from the Xover for bass left and right, and a powercon in, which will have a dual socket duraplug on the other side, feeding midtop amp and xover. when i finish properly ill take some rear pics.
------------- ''Remember that the object of a subwoofer is to enhance the output of your main speakers, not overpower it'' ''Dubstep - an elongated electronic fart'' |
Posted By: flyer
Date Posted: 15 February 2009 at 3:20am
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what would happen if you plugged a powercon in or out while it was LIVE???
------------- IT WILL BE A GOOD SESSION |
Posted By: James Tengo
Date Posted: 15 February 2009 at 8:10am
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It would completely depend on the current load on the powercon, for example I know a venue that uses powercon oultets (the grey ones) to do power distribution around the venue. The sockets are always live, but they ask you to only make or break connections when there is no load on the circuit. (E.g. Powercon to 2x 13a socket adaptor, so you unplug the 13a sockets before unpluging the powercon, leaving no load on the circuit) If a powercon was unplugged under load you would probably get arcing in the connector. |
Posted By: gwarntek
Date Posted: 26 February 2009 at 6:09pm
hey man did you get any of these in the end?
or know of anywhere else that sells them, maybe in bigger quantities for cheaper?
otherwise will probs get some kinda heatshrink...
havent used it before though, may be interesting.. hahaha
how do you heat it up? hairdryer or something?
peace
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Posted By: gwarntek
Date Posted: 26 February 2009 at 6:24pm
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actually i may have found the answer...
http://www.canford.co.uk/Products/43-018.aspx" rel="no follow - http://www.canford.co.uk/Products/43-018.aspx
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Posted By: CLsystems
Date Posted: 26 February 2009 at 6:42pm
| i normally use sticky heatshrink on the back of chassis powercons. |
Posted By: mk2_ginger_biscuit69
Date Posted: 26 February 2009 at 8:32pm
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i used some gaffatape covering in heatsink in the end designed for plumbing, bought from the 99p shop. looks alright and is nice and solid. ------------- ''Remember that the object of a subwoofer is to enhance the output of your main speakers, not overpower it'' ''Dubstep - an elongated electronic fart'' |
Posted By: gwarntek
Date Posted: 26 February 2009 at 9:38pm
| yeah might have to get some heatshrink, new stuff to me... |