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Ciare 18SW ; Bass Maker or Heart Breaker?

Printed From: Speakerplans.com
Category: Plans
Forum Name: 1850 and 186 horns
Forum Description: Discussion / Questions about the 1850 and 186 horns
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=25173
Printed Date: 29 November 2022 at 5:14pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.05 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Ciare 18SW ; Bass Maker or Heart Breaker?
Posted By: FUBARD303
Subject: Ciare 18SW ; Bass Maker or Heart Breaker?
Date Posted: 21 March 2009 at 6:02pm
Seems like everywhere I look someone is saying "or you could load em with THESE!" (enter link to Ciare 18SW)

They look like TONS of fun with the enormously high Xmax and BL factors but are they worth the extra money with the sad Freq curve and the somewhat low sencitivity? Are there any corresponding HR models up that my searches missed? I'm building 4x 186 horns and plan another 4x soon after. Would these be a viable copliment or eventual replacement to the 18sound 1400's ive got? I Definately like the fact they're avalible in 4ohm as this would allow my QSC RMX4050HD's (or any similar quality amp as I understand) to push TWICE as many cabs with similar levels but at an inflated cost of about 25% per driver.

Is the Ciare 18SW the new ground pounder, or an Italian twist on the Kilomax tit?

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"Always look on the bright side of life" -Brian



Replies:
Posted By: MikeHunt79
Date Posted: 21 March 2009 at 11:35pm
What price are they? No where seems to sell 'em...

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I'm English, and as such I crave disappointment. I actively seek it out.


Posted By: FUBARD303
Date Posted: 22 March 2009 at 2:33am
I'm doing all this on my phone and am unable to paste links but you can find em @ www.usspeaker.com seems like they're one of two or three suppliers of em in the states. Also another smaller supplier occasionally on ebay. Theyre quite expensive even for professional loudspeakers yet still less than the better JBL subs so I'd be willing to invest if it would be worth the added cost.

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"Always look on the bright side of life" -Brian


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 22 March 2009 at 5:57am

got some 15sw's here im about to have a play with



Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 22 March 2009 at 8:01am
yes these are great drivers, shifts tonnes of air, infact more air than any other driver I know
 
downside is, low sensitivity, not very loud in a reflex cab, and I heard doubles
 
But like I have suggested many times before, I reckon this would be a good driver for the CV bin or something similar


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......just all them hanging there like giant bananas.



Posted By: rich_gale
Date Posted: 22 March 2009 at 8:58pm
the 18.00sw driver is ciare's answer to mccauley's 6174.  but if you can get hold of the ciare, itll cost you one fifth of the price of the mccauley.   been trying to source the 18.00sw in the uk for ages.  proaudioparts are half asleep.  hoped they might be able to add 4 units to their next order of 12.00sw's, but as usual, they never get back to you when they say they will.


Posted By: rich_gale
Date Posted: 22 March 2009 at 9:01pm
also. the magnet is a hybrid ceramic/neo design.  with the pole piece being neo radial iirc.  this will explain the 36t/m bl.  id like to see a scaled up punisher style cab using this woofer...  maybe in two parts with a bolt on mouth section!


Posted By: MikeHunt79
Date Posted: 22 March 2009 at 9:46pm
Originally posted by rich_gale rich_gale wrote:

the 18.00sw driver is ciare's answer to mccauley's 6174.  but if you can get hold of the ciare, itll cost you one fifth of the price of the mccauley.   been trying to source the 18.00sw in the uk for ages.  proaudioparts are half asleep.  hoped they might be able to add 4 units to their next order of 12.00sw's, but as usual, they never get back to you when they say they will.
Let us if they ever get hold of them, I'd be interested to see how they perform...

I've tried modelling the ciares in hornresp and they seem to work well in larger tapped horns...


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I'm English, and as such I crave disappointment. I actively seek it out.


Posted By: FUBARD303
Date Posted: 22 March 2009 at 10:43pm
LOL look up the 'modular horn'. We decided that was a bad idea.   The two part horn that is... Maybe a single jigantic one for permanet instalations? Maybe something like the big EAW boxes. Ohhh... A design chalenge? Game on!    

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"Always look on the bright side of life" -Brian


Posted By: josh20-11
Date Posted: 19 April 2009 at 7:43pm
Hey Guys!
I want to build the 1850 horn with a Eminence Omega Pro 18 Speaker!
Do you think its a good choice?



Posted By: pfly
Date Posted: 19 April 2009 at 8:01pm
What the hell? Watch where you are writing your messages!
And the answer: No, it is not a good choice!


Posted By: jonminns
Date Posted: 19 April 2009 at 10:12pm
As above

No, it isn't, the 1850 is a good choice, or any of the other drivers on the recommended list!!!

READDDDD

I don't understand all these people who look at the designs and then want to use different drivers


Posted By: Unknown Enemy
Date Posted: 20 April 2009 at 1:20am
Would that be people wanting to build a good cab design and fit it with a cheap driver that won't work in the cab?

That's like buying a high specced BMW and fitting a lada engine inside.


Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 20 April 2009 at 4:23am
wouldn't be as bad as that, but we understand what you mean

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......just all them hanging there like giant bananas.



Posted By: nickyburnell
Date Posted: 20 April 2009 at 8:51am
Originally posted by josh20-11 josh20-11 wrote:

Hey Guys!
I want to build the 1850 horn with a Eminence Omega Pro 18 Speaker!
Do you think its a good choice?

 
Start a new thread for your own questions sir.
 
 


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It's everything, not everythink!


Posted By: Sibulus
Date Posted: 20 April 2009 at 5:13pm
Ciare are f**king annoying to deal with. They actually TOLD me they didn't do 4r versions of the 12.00sw when I knew someone who about 50 of the f**king things in their warehouse.

Somewhere I've got a number that if you call they will actually be helpful, I'll find it if anyone is interested?

Looks like a brute of a driver as well.


Posted By: Joe Average
Date Posted: 20 April 2009 at 11:24pm
Yes pleas, on the number, would like to replace a dozen C-550's with these and see what they sound like grouped in bloody great horns.

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http://www.mrfatbastard.com - http://www.mrfatbastard.com


Posted By: Sibulus
Date Posted: 21 April 2009 at 2:13am
Originally posted by Joe Average Joe Average wrote:

Yes pleas, on the number, would like to replace a dozen C-550's with these and see what they sound like grouped in bloody great horns.


bare with me, i have it on a computer at my parents house, 300 miles away! but ill get it for you. I had so much trouble getting stuff from them but worked out in the end.


what are these bloody great horns you speak of?


Posted By: TDA-Audio
Date Posted: 22 April 2009 at 5:03am
\\\\\\\\\\\\18.00sw driver is ciare's answer to mccauley's 6174. \\\\\\\\\\\\\\

very different drivers....


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horns plans http://photofile.ru/users/tda-audio/


Posted By: rich_gale
Date Posted: 07 October 2009 at 1:52pm
Originally posted by TDA-Audio TDA-Audio wrote:

\\\\\\\\\\\\18.00sw driver is ciare's answer to mccauley's 6174. \\\\\\\\\\\\\\

very different drivers....
 
that may be true, but i read that ciare only started designing their 18.00sw after seeing a mccauley 6174 loaded bassmaxx cabinet.  I remember also hearing an american company claiming they replaced all 6174 drivers for the 18.00sw.  you can see how ciare have engineered their 18.00sw to be a similar performer to the 6174.  the only difference is that they have aimed for something a bit more horn friendly at the expense of fs being higher.


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REFLEX ALL THE WAY.... (however, im playing with horns again...) That ok Mister Valiant? :)


Posted By: mpro
Date Posted: 29 June 2012 at 6:24am
i agree with u its good driver but no life it have its burns lot n some time lead wire get cut... dust cap come out manufacture prob is lot in pd 1850...


Posted By: mykey-
Date Posted: 29 June 2012 at 6:47am
Originally posted by Sibulus Sibulus wrote:

Ciare are f**king annoying to deal with. They actually TOLD me they didn't do 4r versions of the 12.00sw when I knew someone who about 50 of the f**king things in their warehouse.

Somewhere I've got a number that if you call they will actually be helpful, I'll find it if anyone is interested?

Looks like a brute of a driver as well.
member Marvin on here


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BbbBBRAAAAPppBBBBbgushhhhhhhhssshhhhhGrAbRAAAAAAPPPPPp = Dubstep


Posted By: mykey-
Date Posted: 29 June 2012 at 6:50am
Originally posted by mpro mpro wrote:

i agree with u its good driver but no life it have its burns lot n some time lead wire get cut... dust cap come out manufacture prob is lot in pd 1850...
probably in a reflex box?  sensitivity is to low

stick it in a hornWink

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BbbBBRAAAAPppBBBBbgushhhhhhhhssshhhhhGrAbRAAAAAAPPPPPp = Dubstep


Posted By: Tocooltom
Date Posted: 29 June 2012 at 9:11am
Originally posted by rich_gale rich_gale wrote:

 id like to see a scaled up punisher style cab using this woofer...  maybe in two parts with a bolt on mouth section!

Now thats something Im interested in! Tongue


Posted By: DubSirenSpecialist
Date Posted: 22 October 2012 at 11:01am
I use the Ciare 18SWs in some bass horn boxes of my own design. Very very impressive, great for sub horns no good for kicks though, they shift tonnes of air and welly up your belly, definate trouser rattlers.

Lean business of Ipswich do them, at a good price too. I have them running on a Cerwin Vega CV5000 at 2ohm stereo and they sound great with roots/reggae/dub.

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The man of many technologies, the technologies of many men.


Posted By: JahMic
Date Posted: 22 October 2012 at 7:26pm
I have pair in some moded eminence scoops, they sound ok. Looking to change them out soon though.


Posted By: paulus
Date Posted: 22 October 2012 at 7:57pm
@ Dub spec any pics of ya horns sound interesting

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TRENDSETTER SOUND SYSTEM


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 22 October 2012 at 9:08pm
Just took a look at this driver,

Resonant Frequency (fs)

36.4Hz
Impedance (Re) 6.8 ohms
Electrical Factor(Qes) .47
Mechanical Q (Qms) 11.6
Total Q (Qts) .45
Compliance Equiv. Vol. (Vas) 92 Liters/3.25cu. ft.
Voice Coil Overhang (Xmax) 14.0mm
BL Factor 35.11 T-M
Diaphragm Mass (Mms) .371 kg.
Surface Area of Cone (Sd)m2 0.1104m2
Reference Efficiency .88%
Coil Inductance (Le) 1.72mH

IMHO, personally not for me.Dead

Above in red say why.

Xmax figure is b*llcks, real figure is 6.5 - 8.5, depending on fudge theorem utilised.

Plenty of British Drivers would smash this.

0.88% efficiency, Fane 18XB would be almost 3x times louder, with 800W power input.


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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: Meat
Date Posted: 22 October 2012 at 9:49pm
Their calculations for voice coil overhang do seem rather funny although I think total balls is stretching it somewhat:
(33-10)/2 = 11.5, not 14
11.5mm of real voicecoil overhang is a lot though. 14mm looks like a figure maybe obtained by them looking for the 90% BL point (I think thats what some people use, please correct me if I'm wrong) as using the above formula + (overhang X 0.21) would be a very strange thing to use.

Looks like in the right cab it'd be a total beast. Its very different in terms of parameters to most others I've seen.

The error on the resonant frequency of +-7Hz seems a bit strange too, although its nice to see errors - the PD website needs to state these really if it wants to justify putting their parameters to 5 significant figures (now that really does seem like a gimick).




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Don't test the champignon sound


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 22 October 2012 at 10:01pm
Originally posted by Meat Meat wrote:

Their calculations for voice coil overhang do seem rather funny although I think total balls is stretching it somewhat:
(33-10)/2 = 11.5, not 14


OK, guess you used info from here http://oem.ciare.com/pdf_oriz.php?info=372" rel="nofollow - http://oem.ciare.com/pdf_oriz.php?info=372 ,

Used the figures from here,

http://www.usspeaker.com/ciare%201800sw-1.htm" rel="nofollow - http://www.usspeaker.com/ciare%201800sw-1.htm

Which are,

SPEAKER MODEL

18.00 SW

SPECIFICATIONS

Nominal Basket Diameter

18" / 460mm

Impedance

4 or 8 ohms

AES Power Rating

800 Watts

Program Power 1,600 Watts

Frequency Response

20Hz - 1kHz

Sensitivity (1W/1m)

93dB

Voice Coil Diameter

4" / 100mm

Winding Material Copper
Former Material Fiber Glass
Winding Depth 1.0" / 25mm
Magnetic Gap Depth .5" / 12mm
Flux Density 1.3T

Which painted much less optimistic picture.

The Qes, Qts, Vas, "ref efficiency", still speak med grade car speaker to me.

Can't possibly fathom why someone would want to use driver with referency efficiency < 1.0, in PA cab. Dead


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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 12:38am
Reference efficiency is less important in a horn than it is if the driver is to be used in a reflex box, especially a big long horn, the main reason for the low direct radiating efficiency is the high MMS, thick cone and long coil.  With the added mass of the air in the horn the difference between a 200g moving mass and a 370g moving mass will be much less of a factor than with a direct radiator. 


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James Secker          facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk               www.soundgear.co.uk


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 12:52am
Originally posted by Timebomb Timebomb wrote:

Reference efficiency is less important in a horn than it is if the driver is to be used in a reflex box, especially a big long horn, the main reason for the low direct radiating efficiency is the high MMS, thick cone and long coil.  With the added mass of the air in the horn the difference between a 200g moving mass and a 370g moving mass will be much less of a factor than with a direct radiator. 


Very well put point.

My other issue with this driver in a long horn being, the Qes/Qts on the 18.00SW, does not "seem" to be compatible with the tight throat/compression in a horn like the WSX.




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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: JahMic
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 5:12am


Plenty of British Drivers would smash this.<--Yes Lev very trueBig smile. Would like PD1850 but i'm in the USA and  don't have the budget for that. Option are down to RCF-L18P300 and TBX100. Lev any thoughts between the too? 




Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 5:18am
Originally posted by JahMic JahMic wrote:



Plenty of British Drivers would smash this.<--Yes Lev very trueBig smile. Would like PD1850 but i'm in the USA and  don't have the budget for that. Option are down to RCF-L18P300 and TBX100. Lev any thoughts between the too? 




For what cab?

For Folded horn/scoop, 18TBX100 not my favorite driver, but easily superior to this Ciare effort.

For reflex, RCFL18P300 also much superior to the Ciare.


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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: JahMic
Date Posted: 23 October 2012 at 6:22am
Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

Originally posted by JahMic JahMic wrote:



Plenty of British Drivers would smash this.<--Yes Lev very trueBig smile. Would like PD1850 but i'm in the USA and  don't have the budget for that. Option are down to RCF-L18P300 and TBX100. Lev any thoughts between the too? 




For what cab?

For Folded horn/scoop, 18TBX100 not my favorite driver, but easily superior to this Ciare effort.

For reflex, RCFL18P300 also much superior to the Ciare.
Thanks Lev
There modified eminence scoop. 


Posted By: darkmatter111
Date Posted: 24 October 2019 at 1:08pm
Reviving an old thread, this is a driver I have been investigating for use in a large system, in a domestic environment (not PA)
http://www.loudspeaker.com/Ciare/18.00SW#8%CE%A9 - http://www.loudspeakerdatabase.com/Ciare/18.00SW#8%CE%A9
I propose to load it in a sealed box for a low(ish) QTc of around ~0.6 a quick run through WinISD gives around 200 litres.
Still available here at Lean Business (Ipswich)
https://www.lean-business.co.uk/eshop/ciare-1800-sw-18-800-watt-8ohm-20htz-subwoofer-p-1762. - https://www.lean-business.co.uk/eshop/ciare-1800-sw-18-800-watt-8ohm-20htz-subwoofer-p-1762.html

Thoughts?


Posted By: Keen
Date Posted: 28 October 2019 at 5:05am
been done before



Posted By: Keen
Date Posted: 28 October 2019 at 5:06am
go for it




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