X15 driver choice - help
Printed From: Speakerplans.com
Category: Plans
Forum Name: X10, X12, X15 and XM15
Forum Description: Discussion / Questions about the X10, X12, X15 and XM15
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=25640
Printed Date: 27 March 2026 at 8:37am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.08 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: X15 driver choice - help
Posted By: Lincoln1
Subject: X15 driver choice - help
Date Posted: 06 April 2009 at 4:20am
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At least one of my RCF 15's needs reconing which is around 300bucks each
 . So have decided an 'X15' build might as well be on the cards. I do mainly disco-dj stuff, but would like to keep options open for pa-live use.My budget is less than JBL pro, but see p.audio seems reasonable and if it sounds like JBL then great! This is why around the mid90's I went for RCF components when I built what is still my current setup, as it was half the price of what was the 'industry standard' JBL.
I'm from NZ so are limited to a small range of drivers for an 'X15' build. Importing gets expensive due to local taxes and sheer distance. The only supplier here that sells P.Audio gear that I know of is:
http://www.hugesound.co.nz - http://www.hugesound.co.nz
They don't list the SN15MB driver, but do have the P150/2226 which is the JBL copy. (they also do the 15BM300B I see). Does anyone know the difference in sound between the two from say 100Hz - 1 or 1.5kHz? I see the SN is around 300wrms at around 100dB, and the 2226 is around 600wrms at 97dB. This would appear the have around the same output at full load. Though one only needs half the amp output? I know the JBL2226 is a good driver but would like your opinions on the higher efficiency/less wattage driver. Obviously if I decide to build 4 x X15's, a lower powered amp is better for mains draw (and price) etc.
I also like the thought of a 15 and a horn to keep prices reasonable, also can be run standalone occasionally. If this is not realistic please explain what might be better. Here is my current setup. Too much bass I know
  The next build question is horns. Rog has the bmd450 and bmd750 listed for X15. I have read some posts on various horn choices used outside the p.audio ones listed. I have heard beyma comps and horns are good quality. Also please post opinions on 1" vs 1.5-2" comp drivers, if this is just an spl thing or sound quality. Being mainly disco I dont often run the 1.5-4kHz too hard on my current RCF N481 1" comps. Around 2.5kHz sounds harsh otherwise. Pretty sure they phased out the horns I have on the end of them.
I know I have a lot of questions and I appreciate reading what I've read on here so far. I guess I'm just asking is from my limited selection of choices here what you'd do. Also if some other HF combos are nicer then I would be 'all ears', as these are smaller and usually lighter than woofers, freight wouldnt be too much of an issue I'm guessing.
Thanks in advance, and hope my post didnt bore you.
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Replies:
Posted By: ceharden
Date Posted: 06 April 2009 at 6:44pm
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When using a 15" straight up to a compression driver, it is preferable to use a large format compression driver. Using a 1" causes a number of issues because most need a crossover point above 2kHz. Most 15" drivers start sounding a bit rough above 1-1.5kHz and all will start beaming (narrow dispersion due to the width of the driver compared with wavelength). If you choose a 15" with a lighter cone which sounds nicer at the upper end of it's range you then start compromising their ability at the lower end and you might as well be using a 12". The SN15MB is an example of such a light coned 15". Using a 1.4"/2" compression driver allows you to bring the crossover point down to the 1-1.5kHz range where the 15" is much happier. You have to remember that crossover points are not brick walls. In an ideal world you need both the midrange and high frequency drivers to have a response that extends flat an octave in each direction to get them to blend nicely. In practice this is rarely possible unless you're running at least 3 way mid-tops or very special drivers but in the case of a 15"+1" combination where both only just make it to the crossover point it's not surprising that the area around the crossover point never really sounds convincing. Find out if you can get the SN15MB, it's very good for the money. |
Posted By: Lincoln1
Date Posted: 06 April 2009 at 9:14pm
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I'll contact the agent to see if he can bring in a couple of SN15MB's. So as far as the HF end, would you then recommend a 2" comp driver? Value fr money the extra HP looks good, but what about the audio quality? What brand and also what horn, as I see the PH-3223 horn has a squarish shape to it. The 'best' visual one from my limited knowledge looks like the PH4528. But still not edgeless and open like some horns are. This is an area where I think I need the most advice, as I have had little experience in listening tests with different horns. My current setup has an RCF N481 1" and if u eq up 2.5kHz (for test purposes) this really amplifies the crap bacon frying sound:). I usually knock off around 6-9dB and then they sound great below and above this freq. This situation would be good to avoid in the future, or is this just 'horn phenomena'? Definitely keen to hear peoples comments on how to get as close to hifi mid/top as possible using comp drivers.
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Posted By: Calitri
Date Posted: 07 April 2009 at 7:32am
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I'd say go for the 1.4" driver instead of the 2" one because 1.4" drivers have better sound. They don't have the typical metallic sound around and above 7-8 kHz what 2" drivers have. This is however just my personal preference but if you look at almost any mid/high quality 1.4" and 2" drives, they all tend to have the same type of behaviour. You get more dBs at 1-7 kHz from a 2" but lose more on the >8 kHz where as 1.4" resembles more a 1" driver in response. A 1.4" driver will have problems the same way as 2" one but it usually occurs after >13 kHz which isn't normally a problem. Also the 1.4" driver usually have the same power handling as a 2" one as they're almost the same units except for the throat size.
For P. Audio horns, the 4528 is a good quality horn although a little large one. I've used it and it does have a good sound projection and very nice equal coverage but for cabinet size what you're after, the 2723 does the same job but for a more reasonable size. I'd go for the SN-15MB + PH-2723 + SD-740N with 1.4"/2" adaptor. Of course the BM-D740 would be better suited if you're on a budjet.
If you want to have high sound quality, well, there's always the 18Sound ND1480 or Beyma CP-755 with an 18Sound XR1464 horn which would give a superb sound quality and coverage but would be a bit pricy solution.
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Posted By: Lincoln1
Date Posted: 08 April 2009 at 8:01am
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Thanks heaps Calitri, this is just the info I needed, right on the button!
I thought I wanted high sound quality until I looked up the prices of your listed drivers!? They work out to be more than double in $NZ then postage. May just stick with the listed drivers. I just cant justify around NZ$2,500 for better HF drivers when we're on one income (mine:).
Don't mean to waste time/take the piss on this whole X15 thing, but what will be the sound quality difference between the SD-740N 1.4" v's the BMD450 1" comp driver apart from extra grunt from the larger one? This will probably depend on what I go with. (Keeping in mind I 'may' use my existing 1" RCF's if I find I need sheer SPL).
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Posted By: LunchieTey
Date Posted: 08 April 2009 at 9:32am
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I'm in Aus and have a spare set of everything you want! I have a pair of sn15mb's, a pair of bmd750's and 4528 horns sitting in my spare room! I MAY still want to use the sn15mb's but I'm struggling to find a need for the bmd750's. My sd450's are just so sweet with the sn12mb's that I think I'll just use them. What's postage from Perth to NZ? As far as performance goes, yeah the 15's are great, really efficient and in my oppinion would still sound 'ok' up to a 1" driver. You will get the drawbacks of using a 15" up to a 1" but it really isn't the end of the world! The sn15mb's are REALLY light when you pick them up, if you haven't picked up a neo driver like this then you will be surprised for sure! Have you asked www.cannononline.com.au about shipping? They've been good to deal with for me and I've been shipping across Aus! If I were you, I'd maybe just re-driver your current cabs, keeping your hf's and using a 15" with good mids(like the sn15mb). Saves building cabs etc! All things considered a recone might no be too bad either. Also the BM series from P-audio are discontinued AFAIK, so you'd be buying supersceded models from day 1. ------------- Speaker addict |
Posted By: LunchieTey
Date Posted: 08 April 2009 at 9:35am
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Just been browsing that link and holy sh*t it's expensive over there!
------------- Speaker addict |
Posted By: Calitri
Date Posted: 08 April 2009 at 3:53pm
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The difference between SD-740 and BMD-740 on a comparison is the frequency response, power handling and the magnet, one is neodymium and the other is ferrite + the SD series is a bit more "pro" where as the BM series is more budget. The BMD-450 however will have problems to do the same job as SD-740/BMD-740 because the recommended x-o for the 450 is about 2.2kHz/12dB/oct minimum iirc. Also it will cause more distortion in the 1.5-2.5kHz range if you push it to 1.5kHz x-o. The BMD-740/750 will handle that x-o quite easily. If you really need to use a 1" driver, it's not the end of the world like Lunchie Tey said it. You will have some beaming & phasing issues if you push the 15" to 2kHz but it's not unheard of even in pro cabinets. The RCF (old) Art series 15"+1" tops has a x-o of 2.5kHz which is a bit ridiculous considering that the cabinet has a 90*x60* horn. Of course it's not smart but what can you do... |
Posted By: Lincoln1
Date Posted: 12 April 2009 at 4:31am
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Lunchie Tey, I have a mate in perth, maybe just maybe it'll be an option, also thanks for the advice. Calitri thanks for your input too mate. Also my old RCF's are way before the art series. My horns are a H3709 and 1" comps are N481, which are happy crossed over at 1kHz or above. However they arent very linear and like I said with an eq thrown at them they still sound good, well compared to most of todays crap out there. Funny how a good quality anything ages much more slowly:)
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Posted By: LunchieTey
Date Posted: 12 April 2009 at 8:58am
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Have a look at what's available, my horns are as new(never gigged) and you can have em for $300au for the two horns and drivers :) Same price for 2 sn15mb's, again like new and never gigged. They are light so weight priced shipping shouldn't bee too bad BUT 2 drivers will need a fair size package. That's under half price here but you have to get em to you! ------------- Speaker addict |
Posted By: Lincoln1
Date Posted: 13 April 2009 at 10:19am
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Wow! That sounds awesome. The only wee problem I have is the security thing. I have been ripped off (like 2grand) on ebay only a couple of years ago. That really hurt so I am quite a bit more careful, or the best i can be these days. The only safe way i know of would be to get a mate over there to come and buy them off you directly? Just an idea. I'm quite new here so sorry if this seems on the nose, as you may be well known in this 'scene'. Hope you understand.
I was going to go for the SD neo HF's but for that price I'd be interested. Will have to sort out how to get them into NZ.
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Posted By: audionik
Date Posted: 20 July 2009 at 2:31am
Did you ever compare 18Sound ND1480+ 18Sound XR1464 horn whit B&C drivers? And RCF HF 64 horn? By, Fabio |
Calitri wrote:Posted By: Lincoln1
Date Posted: 20 July 2009 at 8:21am
| No I didnt sorry. 18sound over here in NZ just arent around. I ended up buying 4 used JBL 2426 comps and the jbl bi-radial horn copies of JBL 2370a's from P.Audio. The 18sound stuff you mention has had good compliments from users on here if I remember rightly. Sometimes its quite hard searching the threads on here but spend some time and you should find someones feedback... |