"ODEP" crown macrotech
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Topic: "ODEP" crown macrotech
Posted By: foldback
Subject: "ODEP" crown macrotech
Date Posted: 16 April 2009 at 11:25am
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Weve just got a load of macrotech amps. we havnt run them up yet but ive switched them on and they all go into "ODEP" mode. which is some kind of protect from what ive read on the net. Could this be a mains problem in our building? All five of them do the same thing....Any thoughts?
cheers
Ben
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Replies:
Posted By: t0m
Date Posted: 16 April 2009 at 11:31am
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What is showing them all in "ODEP" mode? If the ODEP light shows on the front panel this means ODEP is ready to use, not that its activated. The light goes dim and then finally completely OUT as the ODEP kicks in. Check signal through the amps. //t0m ------------- http://www.microrave.biz PA/Sound/Staging/Lighting & Laser Hire for London & the whole of the UK |
Posted By: foldback
Date Posted: 16 April 2009 at 11:34am
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ahhhh iam being a spanner. just read abit further in the manual pdf and its all there. cheers for your help though dude
=)
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Posted By: t0m
Date Posted: 16 April 2009 at 11:38am
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No probs :) Shame they don't have signal/level lights on the Crowns! that really pisses me off! Have fun with your 5 amps!! //t0m ------------- http://www.microrave.biz PA/Sound/Staging/Lighting & Laser Hire for London & the whole of the UK |
Posted By: jonminns
Date Posted: 19 April 2009 at 1:43am
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When the red odep lights go out, the drivers are dead Just so you know :) |
Posted By: kedwardsleisure
Date Posted: 20 April 2009 at 9:44pm
All the ones I've seen do. Its the IOC light that flashes dim to the music. ------------- Kevin North Staffordshire |
Shame they don't have signal/level lights on the Crowns! that really pisses me off!Posted By: t0m
Date Posted: 20 April 2009 at 10:04pm
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The light flashes to the signal correct, but shows no sign of how much DB is being achieved or when clipping occurs, unless it does flash red when clipping and i've never pushed it that hard! Which I doubt i've NEVER done! //t0m ------------- http://www.microrave.biz PA/Sound/Staging/Lighting & Laser Hire for London & the whole of the UK |
Posted By: ceharden
Date Posted: 20 April 2009 at 10:41pm
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The IOC lights flash at normal brightness when you're running before clipping. They then flash extra bright when you reach clipping. Not the easiest or most obvious indication to see but you can tell when they've run out of headroom. |
Posted By: DjLeco
Date Posted: 05 May 2009 at 1:10am
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If you have Macotech 3600VZ or 5000VZ, is normal the ODEP led's be light on , after 4 secs of starting up and internal status check.
During working, especially on low out impedance (2 ohms each channel),the ODEP leds, dimming lower and lower, showing the amp is going to reach the max thermal output reserve,and when the led's are very low intensity or has been dimmed out, the amp looses his thermal reserve, and next step will be the ODEP protection to be activate, reducing the output power to safe levels for final stage, to have enough time to get cooling, and reach again safe temperatures for output final devices.
Generally this kind of issue, will occur when the ventilation is not proper, or the dust filters on front side are very very dirty...
If this kind of protection doesnt have succes to help amp get cold, presuming 1 or both fan is fauty, then ODEP protection, runs over this step and when final output transistors(the heatsink) will reach more than 120 celsius degrees, the last protection stage will trimm out the power supply on primary coil of power transformer (relais will decouple).
You have the entire manual service, with all adjustments (for recalibrating) here:
http://www.crownaudio.com/gen_htm/legacy/legacamp.htm - http://www.crownaudio.com/gen_htm/legacy/legacamp.htm
Scroll down till reach Macro-Tech series http://www.crownaudio.com/pdf/amps/128313.pdf -
Enjoy the best amplifier that Crown, ever produced (MA5000VZ), in my opinion! ------------- I'm A Stupid SMART Romanian... |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 05 May 2009 at 1:24am
Then make sure you have pocket money saved for all the recone kits you'll need.  ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: chickenfizz
Date Posted: 05 May 2009 at 2:39am
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yes, I agree, this amp (MA3600) does seem very good at destroying speakers. It's the only macrotech I really don't trust. By the way the MA5000 is the only common macrotech that has a red (actually dual colour) LED and it doesn't flash to indicate clip, it indicates the amp is delivering maximum current and could flash well after the amp clips but not usually before. Clip indication is the same as the rest of the series, a bright flash of IOC, and from memory it holds for 0.5 sec for output clip and 0.2 sec for input clip. Not the most clear system admittedly. ODEP should never dim, if it dims there is a problem. ODEP is a misunderstood feature IMO, it's intended to keep the amp operational rather than disconnecting the load as is standard. It's not a signal limiter and doesn't provide any speaker protection. It's there purely to protect the output devices and in most cases does a good job with the advantage of still having a usable amp rather than one that's disconnected the speakers or is going through a thermal cycle. |
Posted By: dannyavila
Date Posted: 05 May 2009 at 5:39am
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Hi Ben.
For your pace of mind, buy some Crown PIP-CLP modules for your MA1200 to MA3600 power amplifiers to add Clip Limiter function to power output and protect your loudspeakers.
Those are probably the best amplifiers made in USA.
Cheers! ------------- Danny Avila. Tech Service Manager Inaudio Servicios Integrales. |
Posted By: DjLeco
Date Posted: 05 May 2009 at 11:36am
Why you tell that?
Do you want to tell MA3600VZ is a bad amplifier,or it offers big output power?
I own 2x 5000VZ, and I'm very happy with what it offers on output.
Reconditioning thread here:
 http://www.forum.poweraudio.ro/viewtopic.php?t=4179 - http://www.forum.poweraudio.ro/viewtopic.php?t=4179
------------- I'm A Stupid SMART Romanian... |
Posted By: spudmiester
Date Posted: 05 May 2009 at 12:28pm
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The '36 VZ is a driver scoffing nasty bastard of an amplifier. Like others have said, be carefull. I had two of these once, they destroyed 4 decent 18 inch RCF drivers so I chopped them in for some CA12's. Not to be left in the hands of the inexperienced, or DJ's. Cant comment on 5000's as have never owned one, the 3600 put me off ! |
Posted By: DjLeco
Date Posted: 05 May 2009 at 12:51pm
The Signal/IOC led (Input Output Comparator) lights normally(dimmed at approx 1/2 intensity) when output signals matched the input signal with distorsion no more than 0,05%.
It starts to lit brighter but for very short periods ( peaks under 0,2 sec), when distortion occurs, greater than 0,05%, and lights brighter more than 0,5 -1 sec, when output stage is in real clipping.
The Iload/Ilimit led lits green when the amp is working in normal current parameters, and goes into RED colour, when the amp is reaching the maximum current capability on output stage.
But independent of CLIP status,because the amp can deliver his maximum current capability (presuming lower impedance than 2 ohms/ch),before entering in clip!
Running the amp in 4 ohms load/ch, the Iload/Ilimit led, never turns in red colour, (even if is clipped at output,because the amp is made for 2 ohms/ch loading),it works on green stage (excluding case of shortened voice coil of loudspeaker, or mismatched loads),only in 2 ohms/ch, the amp goes for red blinking, when the amp is reaching his max output current capability.
Mine amplifiers was modded by myself on ODEP leds changed from red to orange colour, the IOC leds, was changed in bicolor leds,for normal and IOC output (small modifications in led board), and it works well , when the output becomes distorted or clipped, on the green colour it still light and the red colour will lights too, more brightly than the green, to show distorted or clipped output, also the power leds was changed for very brighting leds blue(for bass amp) and red(for top's amp).
The macrotech series amplifiers, are OLDSCHOOL, the one amplifiers wich delivers full output power, all the time, without occuring limmiting after short periods of full output power, like all the switching power supplies amplifier series like I-Tech series, or XTI series or even Macro Itech series, wich cannot sustain max out power for longterm,
because limmiting occurs...
The Macrotech series, is the amp who gives th real power all the time,if are used in normal operation situations.
I cannot pronounce on MA2400 or MA 3600 series, because I never own one of it, I buyed direct 5000VZ series, wich for me is FLAWLESS, excluding the weight... ------------- I'm A Stupid SMART Romanian... |
Posted By: dannyavila
Date Posted: 05 May 2009 at 1:31pm
The Macro-Tech Series power amps don't have neither a Red Clipping light indicator nor Clipping Limiter circuit in models ranging from MA1200 to MA3600. This means that you should be experienced enough to create a decent system gain structure and keep these amps into their RMS power zone most of the time. If you let your amps going beyond this line for long periods where even distorted sound can be noticeable, you`re going to fry out your loudspeaker voice coils to death. In bass bins applications, it's hard to keep the amps in the safe zone so the MA3600 is often blamed for destroying tons of good and well reputed 18" drivers.
 As I said some post ago, adding a http://www.crownaudio.com/pip_htm/pipclp.htm - PIP-CLP module solves this problem and gives this amp an unparalleled performance on heavy duty usage, while keeps loudspeaker working for years. The MA5000VZ is the only model of these Series that includes a 2 speed switchable Clip Limiter.
"Guns don't kill people; people do".
 ------------- Danny Avila. Tech Service Manager Inaudio Servicios Integrales. |
Posted By: Elliot Thompson
Date Posted: 05 May 2009 at 8:42pm
What are saying here?
My Romanian is a tad rusty. 
Best Regards, ------------- Elliot Thompson |
Posted By: DjLeco
Date Posted: 05 May 2009 at 9:17pm
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Singura limitare am avut-o in MONO BRIDGE 4 OHM, unde dupa 15 sec, mi-a sarit sigurantza de 32A de la tablou,pina la mine in camera am bransament FY4 din cupru(instalatie refacuta, evident de mine). means: The only one limmiting ,I had it in MONO BRIDGE 4 OHM where after 15 seconds, the main fuse 32A on power distribution has blown.
Till my room the branchement was re-made by my from cooper conductor FY4mm2.
All tests was done on both channels running, with ODEP set to Hi Voltage.
 Best regards from me, too!
------------- I'm A Stupid SMART Romanian... |
Posted By: Elliot Thompson
Date Posted: 05 May 2009 at 10:34pm
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Nice! 
I was reading in the manual that the current limit is set to 114 amperes. Considering it is a fully dual mono design in which, it has no problem delivering 35 amperes in 4-ohm Bridged Mono, I am sure it will offer 35 amperes per channel in 2-ohm stereo continuously. Did yours come with 30-amp slow blow fuses? I reconfigured mine to 240-volts however never downsized the fuse to 20 amperes per power supply like Crown suggested. Best Regards, ------------- Elliot Thompson |
Posted By: dannyavila
Date Posted: 05 May 2009 at 10:47pm
Just be aware that if you get a short circuit on Mains Full Bridge rectifier your amp is going to loose its Main transformer and Soft start circuit for sure.
 ------------- Danny Avila. Tech Service Manager Inaudio Servicios Integrales. |
Posted By: Elliot Thompson
Date Posted: 05 May 2009 at 11:23pm
Thanks Danny! I definitely do not want to loose the power transformer. 
Best Regards, ------------- Elliot Thompson |
Posted By: DjLeco
Date Posted: 06 May 2009 at 6:01pm
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Mine was come both of it with 20A slow blow fuses, because was for european 220-240 volts.
I reconfigured for 210 volts because usually in Romania, in some cases, at some locations AC plug is dropping under 220 Volts.
Any opinions about this amplifier?
Anyone? ------------- I'm A Stupid SMART Romanian... |
Posted By: Elliot Thompson
Date Posted: 07 May 2009 at 6:15am
Thanks DjLeco I own six Macro-Tech 5000VZ amplifiers ranging from 10 to 14 years with no issues whatsoever.
Best Regards, ------------- Elliot Thompson |
Posted By: DjLeco
Date Posted: 07 May 2009 at 7:24pm
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Best regards from Romania, too! ------------- I'm A Stupid SMART Romanian... |
Posted By: pchclx
Date Posted: 17 May 2009 at 7:40pm
| hi sorry to jump into a conversation - new member here but having a bit of a problem w my Crown 5002VZ. after about 5 secs of use, the ODEP light goes out and the signal cuts completely. can't be a heat issue as im using it outdoors and is well ventilated. i was powering a pair of EV Eliminator 8ohm 350w speakers, and the same problem when powering a pair of EAW sb850 subs. am i making a legitimate mistake w mismatching loads, or is there a problem with the amp? any help is much appreciated. |
Posted By: pchclx
Date Posted: 17 May 2009 at 7:56pm
| edit: this also happens w no signal coming into the amps, and the channels turned down completely. .. ?? |
Posted By: Elliot Thompson
Date Posted: 17 May 2009 at 9:24pm
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There are LED indicators inside the amplifier to help you troubleshoot the problem. If you are not technically inclined, you need to take it to a repair shop in order to get it fixed. Your amp is broken. Try searching for a Crown authorised repair shop within your area on Crown's website. I had my Crown MA 600 fixed at Stereo Exchange in Soho in 1994. However I have no idea if they repair amplifiers anymore. Best Regards, ------------- Elliot Thompson |
Posted By: S DeXter
Date Posted: 19 May 2009 at 12:57am
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Ampman fixes them. Had one with a screw been dropped inside it, totally fried one channel. The LEDs on the front of a 5000 are a bit confusing and have lead to a few premature driver deaths over the years. As has probably already been explained This is how it should look ODEP = RED SIGNAL / IOC = Green (bright green means theres more than 0.05% THD, Input output comparator =. clipping) ILoad / ILimit = Yellow, Red means your at max current. Ive struggled to get the ODEP light to go out, if you clip it into 2 ohms stereo i suppose it would, but this is just bad practice!! |
Posted By: Elliot Thompson
Date Posted: 19 May 2009 at 11:35am
Possibly you are using a modified Macro-Tech 5000vz for mine offer green (as the IOC) LEDs when the load is flowing and red when it has reached its maximum current. Best Regards, ------------- Elliot Thompson |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 06 July 2009 at 1:22pm
Thanks for that, where's the cheapest place to get these pip cars from? Does the 3600 have a rep for getting hot, on same loads as MA5000VZ? Also, anyone know approx price to upgrade MA5000VZ to MA5002VZ? ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: twinypaul
Date Posted: 06 July 2009 at 8:15pm
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you realy need the right model crown for the size of driver 3600 for 15s 5000 for 18s and if you are still runnig out of headroom you need more boxes and amps ------------- paul |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 08 July 2009 at 6:10pm
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ILoad / ILimit = Yellow, Red means your amp's gonna swich output off in less than a split second if the load is anything below 4Ohms an a 5002VZ! Its a bitch running 3 bass cabs per side on that thing. It hates 2.6 Ohm, dont even want to see 2. ------------- www.aggressiveaudio.co.za |
Posted By: DjLeco
Date Posted: 08 July 2009 at 8:32pm
Are you sure about you're saying?
I'm owner of 2 pieces of Macrotech 5000VZ beasts, ans they have runned one full night with 2 ohms(4x8 ohms subs) on each channel,and don't have any kind of troubles.
Don't be LIAR and don't make me to load photos with 5000VZ running around to clip level on dummy load 2 ohms each channel, for half hour of 50Hz benching.
I understand all to love new digital or lightweight amplifiers, but 5000VZ is the best amplifier(at his class) that Crown ever produced.
More better than Itech series too, wich have alot of limmiting, especially on 2 ohm loads.
Please, don't make such affirmations, I'm sure that you never seen an macrotech inside...
here's some pictures from reconditioning of my amps, done by myself.
                                           ------------- I'm A Stupid SMART Romanian... |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 08 July 2009 at 10:05pm
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F.u.c.k-o.f.f! Please, don't be brave now! You would have noticed that I was talking about the 5002VZ if you were able to read. I have been working with these things for the past 7 odd years. The company I run the sound department for have these things in stock too. I have never had ANY probles when driving them in 4Ohm loads or higher, ONLY when I go below 4Ohm. I always run these size amps on 32A Cee-Form too. They do play niceley in 2ohm if you whatch your level, but as soon as you have too start pushing them a bit the ILoad / ILimit light goes red and the relay kicks in. Every single time! On probably 15 different 5002VZ's! Then, the 5000VZ is the other ORIGINAL Macro-Tech, never lets me down. It goes 2ohm all night long while the 5002VZ is choking next to it. Please, get yourself an 5002VZ and run 8 cabs with a 600-800watt powerhanling on it. See how long you will be able too keep your bassline going properley or the bands kickdrum in step on the field. Then, I'll bring an 9001 and piss all over your 5000VZ and 5002VZ afterwards. If you want to talk about amps in its class. You can give the Crest a harder beating than ANY Macro-Tech. "BLA BLA BLA.... Liar! BLA BLA BLA have you seen the inside... BLA Here is my pics! BLA BLA I will show you my 5***VZ:" ITS A f**kING 5000VZ, NOT AN 5002VZ! AND LEARN ENGLISH! YOU MA SE POES! ------------- www.aggressiveaudio.co.za |
Posted By: DjLeco
Date Posted: 08 July 2009 at 10:51pm
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I'm not telling you same words , shame for your spelling on a public forum, I dont like to injury anybody,but to make the 5002VZ (designed for 120Vac), to work properly and deliver his rated power, you must supply'em with minimum 44 amps from the main supply, to expect loading him with on 2 ohm each channel, and run it into his maximum (2 ohm) power output.
So, you have supplied'em on 32 amps soket is normally to have that behaviour, because the 32 amps on 120Vac have exactly 3840 watts power (alot underpower).
So a class AB+B amplifier to deliver 5000 watts, must be supplied with around 7 Kwatts of power,regarding their randament.
If you had read their manual, you will understand why they said about 42,6 amperes draw for 50% duty cycle (2 ohms loading), and in some cases it could draw around 80 Amps maximum, to reach their full power,because AC power droppings...
So for 4 ohms on both channels it will draw around 34,3 amps, how the PDF says, exactly wich you fave feed on your 32 amps soket.
Learn, you cannot beat physic,P=UxI
So, first time, supply-em with desired power requirements, and after that talk about it.
Internal 5002VZ is THE SAME with internal 5000VZ, excepting main supply.
So don't be angry for your fools..
 http://www.crownaudio.com/pdf/amps/131510.pdf - http://www.crownaudio.com/pdf/amps/131510.pdf
Also, I'm not talking here about advantages or disadvantages between Crown-Crest.
So go to piss somewhere else!
Personally I dont like ClassH sound (crest).
Good luck! ------------- I'm A Stupid SMART Romanian... |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 09 July 2009 at 9:42am
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"Learn, you cannot beat physic,P=UxI" We run 230v in South Africa! We get the 240v models over here. Our generators for gigs run @ 240V and the problem does'nt go away... There are at least 20 other techs over here to back me up about the 2 ohm problem. So, we are running in 2ohm or 2.6ohm, need around 30A peak for each amp and each are running on a 32A Cee-form socket. Thats 6 Macros. We need 60A per phase on our 100KVA gennie running @ 240V. The mids and highs need around 30A per phase to run properly. Thats far under the 125A distros trip point, not to even speak about choking the gennie. Am I calculating all of this wrong? Every time? I must be. Because according to you were running 120V. Whose angry now, fool. ------------- www.aggressiveaudio.co.za |
Posted By: S DeXter
Date Posted: 09 July 2009 at 10:21am
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Crowns are designed to run at 2ohms and they will do all night. They only hit the red ILoad / Limit when you clip them in 2ohm, which of course you never do... I've been searching for ages to find again a document i read on the net where they ran about 8 macro 5000s at one gig at 1 OHM per channel. All the ODEP lights were off, the ILoad / Limit were RED and not one went wrong. They are IMO the best touring amp of the 20th century.
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Posted By: S DeXter
Date Posted: 09 July 2009 at 10:26am
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And of course there is very little differnce between the 5000 and 5002, i have ran both at 2ohms no problems. Allegedly crown only did it to boost sales. |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 09 July 2009 at 10:33am
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I know exacty how reliable these things are. I never have ANY problems running them in 4 ohm as I said. I dont know why there is that problem with the 5002. The 5000 doesnt ever die on gigs. NEVER. Even the distributors over here doesn't reccomend that we rin the 02's less than 4ohm for gigs. My amps are properley limited in any case. Its just that I have had this experience over and over for how long now.
------------- www.aggressiveaudio.co.za |
Posted By: Elliot Thompson
Date Posted: 09 July 2009 at 11:03am
Have you contacted Crown? You live in Africa where the climate may contribute to your problems where others like myself are not faced with the same type of weather conditions. Best Regards, ------------- Elliot Thompson |
Posted By: DjLeco
Date Posted: 09 July 2009 at 11:14am
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Is very interesing what you say, so it could be something that you missed!
Now I saw that you use them on power generators!
Are you sure that they offer 50 herts sinusoidal perfectly?
Because the amplifier has internal overvolt protection semireglabil adjust, (R780) and also an jumper for 50Hz ans 60 Hz (JP1), and here can be the key of your misterious behavior of the amps!
Try to feed'em on local 220-240 volts Ac power supply, and check again inside the jumper (JP1)of 50-60Hz , also the Voltage Conversion Tabel, could be something dubious there!
If it's OK, on local Ac power plug, is solved the mistery!
I had a friend in Romania wich owns 3 macrotech, 2of 5002VZ and 1 MA3600VZ.
Never had problems with 5002VZ, even running lower than 2 ohms each channel 5 spealers of 8 ohms loaded, on each chennel.
The I-Load I-Limit leds are on red in some peaks,but never entered into cliping (maximum output current achieved).
I'm not fighting or argue with you!
 Friends?
 ------------- I'm A Stupid SMART Romanian... |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 09 July 2009 at 11:20am
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Cool. Its the same on the gennie and the wall. I'm in Cape Town. Climates' like Italy or whatever. Thats not the prob. |
Posted By: DjLeco
Date Posted: 09 July 2009 at 11:39am
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How many pieces of it do you own?
All do the same thing?
Is curious their behavior if all do the same thing on the same time. ------------- I'm A Stupid SMART Romanian... |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 09 July 2009 at 11:50am
| They all drive bass 35Hz - 80/120Hz. 2x 5000VZ and 4x 5002VZ. When pushed hard the 02's kill output whenever they want while 5000's keep on smiling.... |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 09 July 2009 at 12:04pm
They were all in the same cases too. Heres some pics of a rack [phone cam]:  |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 09 July 2009 at 12:20pm
| All always on o.775 and either VZ-Odep or Lock Low. All amps always set exacly the same. |
Posted By: S DeXter
Date Posted: 09 July 2009 at 12:29pm
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What are you using for limiters? Do the amps clip (IOC)...... |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 09 July 2009 at 1:25pm
| Driverack 260/480. |
Posted By: JaKe
Date Posted: 09 July 2009 at 1:55pm
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I used to take out racks of 5000/5002/3600 for a company I used to work for, at least 16 amplifiers per show for at least a hundred shows, some all nighters, these same racks were used with a couple of the Prodigy tours, an outfit not known for going easy on amps and speakers. The 5000 and 5002 were always running into 2 ohm loads - 2x EAW SB850/1000 per channel. I never had a single amp go down. JaKe |
Posted By: DjLeco
Date Posted: 09 July 2009 at 3:28pm
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Very interesing, also I presume trouble comes from power supply system... ------------- I'm A Stupid SMART Romanian... |
Posted By: Hugo Biermann
Date Posted: 09 July 2009 at 3:30pm
| Could well be then... |
Posted By: kallabungo
Date Posted: 26 May 2010 at 6:57pm
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Bringing back up this post
The signal IOC lights flash bright when clipping is occuring... What would cause a premature indication of clip? Say the volume is still high, but with headroom and the amp is showing clip?
This could be down to the input signal from LMS being too high? Would this also be because of something further up the chain such as a redline DJ?
So how would you go about finding the right balance between input and output signals? Am i right in thinking, that if you have the signal and output perfectly adjusted you should be able to achieve near maximum current (power supply dependant) without clip?
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Posted By: DjLeco
Date Posted: 26 May 2010 at 9:39pm
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The IOC led is NOT an clipping indicator!
Is a distortion-free PROOF ; tipically any distortion greater of 0,05% makes it light , it names IOC from Input Output Comparator.
You can read here:
http://www.crownaudio.com/pdf/amps/iocpaper.pdf - http://www.crownaudio.com/pdf/amps/iocpaper.pdf
Also I observed at mine, setted on 775 mVolts sensitivity, with volume knobs at 30% from maximum rotation, the IOC leds blinks showing distorted input signal, when I reached +6 db on mixer Vu-Meter...
The output power was around couple hundred of watts, (too small output power to think the amp is in clipping)but very distorted (not by the amplifier).
So check adequate sensitivity switch, to be matched with mixer signal level too.
The perfect match is to give to the mixer 1000 Hz ,set all corections and equalisers to 0 db , filters,low cuts ,limmiters set to OFF, gain level 0db on the channel you inject signal , master level must be 0 db (on vu-meters) indication,and use a precision digital true rms multimeter or better an oscilloscope with true rms capability measuring referenced to ground and pin 2(hot) of the XLR output , and see EXACT mixel level in hundred of milivolts or even volts at 0db on his output.
That's in case of direct connection between mixer and amplifier!
If you use another electronic equipment between mixer and amplifier, try to measure at amplifier input the voltage level.
I saw many level mismatches between amplifiers sensitivity setting, and ahead amplifier chain of equipment, so at amplifier input XLR is deja distorted signal present.
------------- I'm A Stupid SMART Romanian... |
Posted By: stem
Date Posted: 09 June 2010 at 11:34pm
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so just to confirm that it is normal for the ODEP LED to be lit during operation?? Thanks ste |
Posted By: kallabungo
Date Posted: 10 June 2010 at 8:21am
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Yeah the red ODEP lights at the top should be constantly red, when they start fading out and turn off that's when you have problems... It confuses some people, they see red and instantly assume its related to something bad, gladly, not in this case... :) |
Posted By: stem
Date Posted: 10 June 2010 at 10:27am
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ok, thanks for that mate. You've put my mind at rest! |
Posted By: DJGing
Date Posted: 14 June 2010 at 1:35pm
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Hi guys, been reading this topic as i've been having a few problems with my macrotech 2400. I'm new to this forum too! Basically my macrotech will be working fine for a while, and then for no apparent reason the right (ch2) ODEP indicator will go out and the ch2 signal indicator will light up fully. There is no output after this. It is running in bridge mode at 4ohms. Any help would be much appreciated! |
Posted By: kallabungo
Date Posted: 14 June 2010 at 1:58pm
A few things to check, the fans are running properly, there is no restriction to airflow and input sensitivity on the amp (if applicable) is set correctly.
It could be that you are demanding too much from the amplifier and it is getting excessively hot and going into protect.
Or it could be the same problem that i'm having in that the mosfets on the VZ stage are shorted (through wear and tear) and bad 555 timers on the odep section. I'm not good enough to replace these parts myself so the amp is off to an electronics engineers tonight.
I never knew too much about this problem until i discovered it, and apparently it has been an issue with quite a lot of crown amps.
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Posted By: DjLeco
Date Posted: 14 June 2010 at 5:49pm
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Dear friend kallabungo, here are the picture where you can see all components that must be replaced to fix VZ stage fault.
All red rectangle components must be replaced, even if they looks ok, for better safety!
Ask to technician to give maximum attention when desoldering and resoldering components, because the PCB are double sided, and any weak soldering,or exfoliated circuits,could compromise good working of VZ stage!
After replacements of all integrated circuits and mosfets for both channels(use sokets for integrated circuits), put amplifier in lock low mode(VZ switches) no input signal and no loads on outputs ,and measure the tensions that I have described in photo (87 to 95 Vdc, depending a little of main supply).
If everithing is OK, put 4 ohms on each channel, leave the VZ switches in lock low mode(booth channels), put multimeter to check again same supply voltage , insert audio signal(music or sinewave), and grow up the level till slow clipping.
If everything is ok, the supply tension (87 to 95 vdc in idle) must drop couple volts when increasing the output power.
If is ok, turn off the amplifier, and change switches on VZ auto or VZ odep mode, and repeat stage, if everything is ok, the supply voltage when increasing output power, must increase too ,over 120-150 volts, in same point where you have measured initially the 87 to 95 VDC in idle.
If the supply tension increases when increases output power, the VZ stage for each channel is working corectly!
So shorter explanation, in Lock Low ,VZ Auto or VZ ODEP mode, the supply tension between +VCC Bussbar and -VCC Bussbar, should me no more than 87 to 95 Vdc in idle mode!
Any tension greater, means those components described must be replaced!
Initially when mosfets fails, also the 555 timmer fails too, but I have some cases when even the 393 and 339 comparators are faulty too...
Good luck, hope my explanations and photo will be helpfull for everyone on this forum!
Greetings from Romania!
 VZ STAGE SUPPLY
 The entire manual service can be downloaded FREE from here, thank's to CROWN.
http://www.crownaudio.com/gen_htm/legacy/legacamp.htm - http://www.crownaudio.com/gen_htm/legacy/legacamp.htm
scroll down till Macro-Tech Series
------------- I'm A Stupid SMART Romanian... |
Posted By: kallabungo
Date Posted: 15 June 2010 at 7:58am
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Thank you very much for your help Leco. The amp is now with Lewis from Abeltronics (a member of this forum too) I'm glad to be finally getting to the bottom of this problem! Really appreciate your time and efforts, you're a knowledgable man!
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Posted By: DjLeco
Date Posted: 15 June 2010 at 10:32am
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Waiting for your reply when all faults have been fixed!
And photos too!
 Cheers! ------------- I'm A Stupid SMART Romanian... |
Posted By: kallabungo
Date Posted: 08 July 2010 at 4:19pm
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Well i dont have any photo's im afraid but i have just had confirmation from Lewis that the fault(s) have been fixed and the amp is fully operational once again!
We have 4 more 1850 horns as of this weekend (fingers crossed) Finally we'll have an amp to power them!
Thanks to Lewis for the repair and many thanks to DJ Leco for all your time and advice in helping me sort the faults out.
Stu (Inferior Sounds)
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Posted By: DjLeco
Date Posted: 08 July 2010 at 4:51pm
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We wait for some youtube links, with movies from event!
Can you ask Lewis , what was exactly faulty?
------------- I'm A Stupid SMART Romanian... |
Posted By: kallabungo
Date Posted: 09 July 2010 at 9:57am
The mosfets on channel 2 as you pictured were found to be faulty and replaced. There was however, another issue that Lewis was unable to find. After channel 2 had been repaired channel 1 ODEP was completely off and IOC light constantly illuminated bright green. By chance Lewis managed to accidentally find the little burnt out resistor, or maybe a capacitor, on part of the ODEP circuitry. He replaced the component and the amp seems to be fully operational once again.
We have a very big gig 31st July and this will definitely test the amps abilities, i'll be sure to take a video for you. I think i should give it a good bench test before i take it out to a gig really, just to be safe.
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Posted By: DjLeco
Date Posted: 12 July 2010 at 10:13pm
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Ok, we wait "the videos"!
Make it on HD camera if you can! ------------- I'm A Stupid SMART Romanian... |
Posted By: Ke5lly
Date Posted: 27 March 2012 at 1:50am
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Hello I have 2 crown microtech 5002vz on one the channel 2 is getting hot but working. On the outher one as soon as I power it up the STBY1 LED comes on on both channels and then a few seconds later channel 2 STBY2 LED goes out and channel 1 STBY1 stays on and the OUTPUT MOD FAULT LED comes on. Any help on this would be appreciated. KE5LLY |
Posted By: chickenfizz
Date Posted: 27 March 2012 at 1:40pm
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Presumably you are talking about the LEDs on the PCB? The LEDs on the front panel probably look like this: channel 1 LEDs - ODEP on, IOC off channel 2 LEDs - ODEP off, IOC on It is likely to be at least a shorted output device on CH2 and possibly other damage as a result, get it sent off. Your other one that gets hot (under no load?) could be a bias fault or could be something completely different, again, get it sent off. |
Posted By: DjLeco
Date Posted: 28 March 2012 at 11:57am
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Check power supply mosfets from VZ circuit, is shorted, suplying permanently the final stage with max tension (170-180Vdc). On the other, you have deja blown(shorted) output devices.
Also before fixing, check VZ stage mosfets, are shorted surely.
Replace NE555 circuit too, and LM339 comparator.
Entire manual service here:
http://www.crownaudio.com/gen_htm/legacy/legacamp.htm" rel="nofollow - http://www.crownaudio.com/gen_htm/legacy/legacamp.htm
Blown components on VZ stage:
http://postimage.org/image/a6befcbdt/" rel="nofollow">  ------------- I'm A Stupid SMART Romanian... |
Posted By: gerry_morales
Date Posted: 28 May 2015 at 12:58am
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hi DJLeco, about vz5002 ioc problem..........do i need to replace also MOC8021 |
Posted By: organeu
Date Posted: 15 February 2016 at 3:12pm
CROWN MACROTECH MA3600VZ 2X1565W/4OHMHELLO, Is this power amp good enough for 2 JBL SRX 718 ? and so sometimes 4 JBL SRX 718 (2 on each side of the stage) linked ? Thanks a lot. The only problem is than this power amp is heavy but I believe very good.
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Posted By: ychole audio
Date Posted: 15 February 2016 at 5:06pm
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Onother query here to our macro amp experts, I got an ioc light on solid green. Any inputs on this where to start troubleshooting?
------------- I am ZERIEL'S dad!!! |
Posted By: kedwardsleisure
Date Posted: 15 February 2016 at 8:05pm
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IOC light glowing brightly with no audio connected essentially means its in protect. There are further diagnostic lights on the power & main boards which should hint where the protect signal is coming from. ------------- Kevin North Staffordshire |
Posted By: ychole audio
Date Posted: 15 February 2016 at 8:58pm
------------- I am ZERIEL'S dad!!! |
Posted By: kedwardsleisure
Date Posted: 16 February 2016 at 9:29pm
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if the amp is exhibiting any unusual behavior you need to disconnect the speakers and get it working perfectly on the scope then dummy load before putting speakers back on there. ------------- Kevin North Staffordshire |
Posted By: carl adams
Date Posted: 01 May 2019 at 9:30pm
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[QUOTE=t0m]What is showing them all in "ODEP" mode? If the ODEP light shows on the front panel this means ODEP is ready to use, not that its activated. The light goes dim and then finally completely OUT as the ODEP kicks in. Check signal through the amps. i have a 3600 crown.when you turn it on only the signal lights coming on.no relay coming on either .what can be the cause? |
Posted By: opacheco
Date Posted: 07 June 2022 at 5:51am
Dear DjLeco This discussion is very old but could you re-upload this image again please? I have been having some troubles with some 5002Vz and 3600 and I am triying to fix it. I appreciate if you can re-upload the others ones pics about the parts we need to change for a PSU failure in the 3600 because yours link in the links are death too! I will appreciate your help Thanks a lot opacheco
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Posted By: DjLeco
Date Posted: 09 June 2022 at 8:10am
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Unfortunately, this is the only one that I have: https://i.postimg.cc/85cHbm7C/Crown.png" rel="nofollow - https://i.postimg.cc/85cHbm7C/Crown.png https://postimg.cc/mzxCLMNx" rel="nofollow">
 ------------- I'm A Stupid SMART Romanian... |
Posted By: opacheco
Date Posted: 10 June 2022 at 5:04pm
Look like the link is death, Could you upload againg please? Thanks opacheco
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Posted By: Pinyorouk
Date Posted: 10 June 2022 at 5:23pm
| Link working for me |
Posted By: opacheco
Date Posted: 10 June 2022 at 7:33pm
I don't want to bother you but Could you send this pdf schechematic to me directily to my e-mail please? Here my e-mail: opacheco@yahoo.com Thanks again! opacheco
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Posted By: Pinyorouk
Date Posted: 13 June 2022 at 2:13pm
| I tried to send but there was an error from your rmail. Press and hold the picture of the schematic then select download image when on phone. |
Posted By: opacheco
Date Posted: 14 June 2022 at 3:38am
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Oh man!!....that's shame! My email is working normal!, but please send it to me again to my other e-mail (this is my other e-mail): opacheco_hn@msn.com You can use www.wetransfer.com (free service) and let me to know if this work for you please. I tried to download in my phone but the resolution is very, very bad!!, I can't see anything!, sorry. Thanks opacheco |
Posted By: Elliot Thompson
Date Posted: 14 June 2022 at 1:21pm
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You can download the service manual directly from Crown's website https://www.crownaudio.com/en/support_downloads" rel="nofollow - https://www.crownaudio.com/en/support_downloads Best Regards, ------------- Elliot Thompson |
Posted By: opacheco
Date Posted: 14 June 2022 at 3:28pm
Sorry but this Crown's website schematic is different, I have it!!.... Thanks opacheco
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Posted By: Elliot Thompson
Date Posted: 14 June 2022 at 5:53pm
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Contact Crown on the revision you have and, they will send you the Schematic. Best Regards, ------------- Elliot Thompson |
Posted By: opacheco
Date Posted: 14 June 2022 at 8:25pm
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I did it, but they don’t response any e-mail/communications but I am requested it here because it look like easy to send it to me and some have very experience in this amps series. Thanks again opacheco
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Posted By: Elliot Thompson
Date Posted: 14 June 2022 at 9:01pm
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You need to call them over the phone. The photo is not clear enough if you are looking to determine the values of the components. I am viewing it on a 50 inch screen and the values are not legible. Best Regards, ------------- Elliot Thompson |
Posted By: opacheco
Date Posted: 19 June 2022 at 5:43am
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Sorry but this didn’t works in the past! It will be better if someone here can send me the file directly please! The file is here but I don’t know why I can’t download it!! Thanks opacheco
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Posted By: APW
Date Posted: 19 June 2022 at 11:56am
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Any good: https://www.manualslib.com/download/225307/Crown-Macro-Tech-Ma-5000vz.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.manualslib.com/download/225307/Crown-Macro-Tech-Ma-5000vz.html
https://www.manualslib.com/download/561502/Crown-Macro-Tech-Ma-5002vz.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.manualslib.com/download/561502/Crown-Macro-Tech-Ma-5002vz.html https://www.manualslib.com/download/726400/Crown-Macro-Tech-Ma-3600vz.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.manualslib.com/download/726400/Crown-Macro-Tech-Ma-3600vz.html |
Posted By: opacheco
Date Posted: 19 June 2022 at 4:02pm
Sorry but I am talking about of this schematic posted by DJleco with his red color notes. Anyway, Thanks for your time! opacheco
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Posted By: APW
Date Posted: 19 June 2022 at 5:15pm
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that drawing is page 10 of the Ma-5000vz schematic in the link above. |
Posted By: opacheco
Date Posted: 19 June 2022 at 7:08pm
Ok let me see please! Thanks opacheco
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Posted By: EmPro
Date Posted: 19 June 2022 at 9:28pm
Damn,i'm happy all my Macros and Micros working great still,and yeah...you guys will be surprised to find out that couple of years ago in one of my MT1200 the right psu Philips capacitor went somehow open circuit and the amp was still playing but he lost power,i suspected psu problem and i found the capacitor just for decor in the circuit...strange but true. i did open the capacitor and it was so full of electrolyte...plenty life in it..but somehow the + side connector band to the screw support fell off completly...and let the capacitor open circuit....------------- EmPro Audio |
Posted By: EmPro
Date Posted: 19 June 2022 at 9:42pm
Got long time ago a PowerTech 3 with one ch faulty,the fault was so simple,just one output device on negative side...i removed and turn on the amp,no more protect mode,ch was working...so i replaced all 16 outputs to balance the amp,set the bias again and the amp is working flawless even today,the outputs i used are from farnell uk ON MJ21194/MJ21193,i was thinking to modd the amp to 12 outputs per ch as the holes are already there,but i never did  just to point out the good part in this is that the chain reaction phenomena is not happening in the MT-s so the protection against really works,not just on the paper.------------- EmPro Audio |
Posted By: kedwardsleisure
Date Posted: 19 June 2022 at 10:19pm
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this line of Crown amps, powertech,microtech,macrotech,commtech were the best that money could buy. They were not engineered for cost, but for reliability and performance. The price reflected that, over £1 per watt and quite a bit more (I have the original brochures with the trade prices I scribbled on in biro). The 80's was a time of plenty in the US and maybe that was a factor. So it's no surprise that there's plenty still out there (the line appeared in the late 1980's). I do wonder how many other amps produced today in an austere world will be around in 35 years' time. Maybe Joni Mitchell should write a song about it! ------------- Kevin North Staffordshire |
Posted By: opacheco
Date Posted: 19 June 2022 at 10:26pm
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EmPro, Thanks for comments! I have changed the bad (5 only) outputs devices in channel one (MA3600VZ) with the 3 Mosfet power supply switching devices too (now new all of them) and now am having a ODEP light turning off indicating some output problem until or PSU failure. I found the MC33079P OTA bad condition, I changed new but the amp is not working until. Any advise will be appreciated opacheco
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Posted By: EmPro
Date Posted: 19 June 2022 at 10:29pm
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Well...i'm a proud owner of 8 MT-s still working flawless,6 of them with all original parts ofcourse i did meinteinance on all of them...recalibrated,resoldered,etc etc...the strongest ones are MT2400 folowed by PowerTech 3,after 1200 and last 600,didn't have any use for MT3600vz or 5000vz,i use different amps for bass...maybe just in my head the lateral mosfets sound better for bass,but i love them,MT-s just doing the light mid-hi stuff never in bridge mode,and rarely in 2R/ch on moderate power levels.
------------- EmPro Audio |
Posted By: EmPro
Date Posted: 19 June 2022 at 10:33pm
Are you sure the rest of the outputs are good?? As the amplifier seems to go in protection mode now,and that indicates faulty outputs/drivers (if the psu is good as you fixed the vs mosfets)
------------- EmPro Audio |
Posted By: EmPro
Date Posted: 19 June 2022 at 10:57pm
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So,if your psu,drivers,outputs and biass are good,then you might have a look for ODEP voltages and see how they are,if the odep circuit fails will turn off the ch and you just gonna waste time looking on wrong board for faults ------------- EmPro Audio |
Posted By: opacheco
Date Posted: 20 June 2022 at 4:36am
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EmPro, I tested all the output devices (I pull out every output transistors and they were tested) and changed the faulty units at all! I am thinking the 555 timer in the regulation channel 1 PSU board could be bad, although as indicated by Look like, this amp has more than one problem, it wasn't just the damaged outputs devices only, maybe the power supply still has a problem in its regulation system; Do someone know what can I check for tests the power supply for any failure? Any specific voltage test or how I can test the 555 Timer? Any advise will be appreciated so much! opacheco
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