Print Page | Close Window

ES18-BPH

Printed From: Speakerplans.com
Category: General
Forum Name: Advanced Discussion
Forum Description: Advanced discussion area for higher lifeforms
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=27036
Printed Date: 03 March 2024 at 6:33am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.06 - https://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: ES18-BPH
Posted By: Father-Francis
Subject: ES18-BPH
Date Posted: 22 May 2009 at 3:17pm
 I know it says that use the P audio drivers, but there must be one or two more drivers that are betterTongueTongue

ES18-BPH.jpg




-------------
Music is the strongest form of magic.(+45 31879997)blakmanpro@gmail.com, foa@sweetboxaudio.dk



Replies:
Posted By: Static Age
Date Posted: 22 May 2009 at 3:42pm
what do you mean by better?
 
Higher power handling, harder kick, lower extension or nicer sound??
 
what is it that you want from the cab? IMO using the SD18 in the ES18-BPH is a waste of a good sub driver.


-------------


Posted By: Father-Francis
Date Posted: 22 May 2009 at 3:52pm
a harder kick to start with and kind of low so if use in 4 can do subs 

-------------
Music is the strongest form of magic.(+45 31879997)blakmanpro@gmail.com, foa@sweetboxaudio.dk


Posted By: Static Age
Date Posted: 22 May 2009 at 4:19pm

4 of them is never going to get low enough to do proper sub. Most people have been using these as upper bass cab so I dont think there has been much experimentation as to how low they get with different drivers.



-------------


Posted By: biotec
Date Posted: 22 May 2009 at 4:25pm
There is a french sound system called infraktion who have built several double versions. I am not sure which driver they are using but I was extremely suprised by how low they appeared to go. Their sound reminded me of the funktion one bin and they sounded significantly fuller than the USB.
 
I am not sure whether it was the driver or the design but I was suprised by how different they sounded to a similar opile of USBs.
 
I do not have huge experience of either but I think that as a tough Kick cab the USB is hard to beat, but the ES18-BPH does better as an all round bin in an extremly compact size.
 
I should add that it is likely that either will give the sound you want if you choose the right driver for the job.


-------------
me so horny, me love you long throw.


Posted By: SwenK
Date Posted: 31 May 2009 at 8:20pm
I have been looking at building some USB/ES18s for ages,

does anybody have any real world plots of a single USB using the intended Celestion driver? (i tried using search)
or even just the sensitivity,max spl and -3dB points.

Also anybody with experience of both, which would you recommend?

I am looking at building either in singles for use under 12s or 15s for bands(2-4 per side),  and on other occasions above X1's for house music/hard dance. Might one day build some labs to go under them for outdoor use too.

I am aware of the HD15/X1 combination for house and the HD meaning hard dance, but th HD15 won't be much cop in pairs under a 12" for bands, whereas a usb/es18 will.

Also where are we sourcing our p.audio C650 drivers atm?

cheers and thanks

s.


-------------
It's an artistic piece...but i like it


Posted By: gwarntek
Date Posted: 31 May 2009 at 9:29pm
Yeah ive gone for a smilar thing Swen, to use ES18s alone under tops for some things, and then add X1s underneath for other types of music/ bigger gigs etc...


Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 31 May 2009 at 10:55pm
Originally posted by gwarntek gwarntek wrote:

Yeah ive gone for a smilar thing Swen, to use ES18s alone under tops for some things, and then add X1s underneath for other types of music/ bigger gigs etc...


Venues/music play on my set, I could never get  away with just ES18s.

Its either 2 scoops and just Midtops, or 4x scoops, kick, mids.


-------------
"Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy".


Posted By: jethrocker
Date Posted: 01 June 2009 at 1:35am
Peoples need are different I guess... ;)


Posted By: gwarntek
Date Posted: 01 June 2009 at 11:02am
yeah if i was playing bass heavy music, dub etc then its all about the sub
but for live bands and stuff a wider freq range is needed. same as using a stack of USBs...


Posted By: Father-Francis
Date Posted: 02 June 2009 at 10:28pm
what´s the best driver for the Usb so far?

-------------
Music is the strongest form of magic.(+45 31879997)blakmanpro@gmail.com, foa@sweetboxaudio.dk


Posted By: gwarntek
Date Posted: 02 June 2009 at 10:31pm

You mean apart from the recommended celestion one?

 
Also does anyone happen to know the differences between the USB and ES18 regarding volumes and horn lengths/expansion (not physical dimensions though)
 
Sorry im a bit lazy and havent worked it out myself... LOL


Posted By: Symzzi
Date Posted: 02 June 2009 at 11:18pm
Originally posted by SwenK SwenK wrote:


I am aware of the HD15/X1 combination for house and the HD meaning hard dance, but th HD15 won't be much cop in pairs under a 12" for bands, whereas a usb/es18 will.



Have you tried them? We regularly run an HD215 or 3 HD's a side with a community SLS920 on top for smaller band work, personally i think they do the job very well, hi-passed at 48Hz.
I suppose it depends on what sort of bands you'll be working with, if you need the extra low end for electronic instruments or bigger productions or such like then you'll benefit from an 18" design. Certainly don't be labelling the HD15's as "not much cop" though..


Posted By: Father-Francis
Date Posted: 03 June 2009 at 7:31am
You mean apart from the recommended celestion one?

Yes man apart from that LOLSmile


-------------
Music is the strongest form of magic.(+45 31879997)blakmanpro@gmail.com, foa@sweetboxaudio.dk


Posted By: Buffmarley
Date Posted: 03 June 2009 at 7:50am
we've been using a pd185 in 4 of our es18s, coupled together they can perform sub but not as efficient as longer horn mouthed cabs + very short in terms of throw



Posted By: Father-Francis
Date Posted: 03 June 2009 at 8:04am
Originally posted by Buffmarley Buffmarley wrote:

we've been using a pd185 in 4 of our es18s, coupled together they can perform sub but not as efficient as longer horn mouthed cabs + very short in terms of throw


that should be good for small to medium size halls ,livebands 4 on each size , or just 2* 218Es18-bph



-------------
Music is the strongest form of magic.(+45 31879997)blakmanpro@gmail.com, foa@sweetboxaudio.dk


Posted By: mashgwan
Date Posted: 03 June 2009 at 8:25am
buff marley, out of intrest what do you cross yours over as we run 4 as bass under some double 10"
but we have recently blew one up, cone ripped but the voice coil was fine
 
we run them 40hz to 250hz


Posted By: SwenK
Date Posted: 03 June 2009 at 11:55am
Hi all,
 
some really helpful comments,
 
I notice that several people are discussing the USB and ES18 as if they are the same box, from my understanding, although the design is very similar, they sound very different, usb covering a much narrower frequency band and really only being suitable as a kick bin? (with immense attack)
 
ES18 is more of a general purpose box, that can be used for kick, but was intended to be used on its own? (with less attack) (perhaps even as a poor mans f118)
 
Is my understanding correct?
 
As for drivers in the USB/ES18, i read on here that the USB is absolutely best with the intended driver and that it is fairly reliable in this design, the es18 on the other hand i've not heard much about? Given the limited availability of P.audio drivers atm, any others would be helpful.
 
Thanks for the info on the HD15's for band work, tbh i've never tried 15"s for low end(in any design), as a lot of my tops have 15"s in them anyway,  (15+6.5+1).
 
cheers
 
s.
 
 


-------------
It's an artistic piece...but i like it


Posted By: Buffmarley
Date Posted: 03 June 2009 at 12:39pm
Originally posted by mashgwan mashgwan wrote:

buff marley, out of intrest what do you cross yours over as we run 4 as bass under some double 10"
but we have recently blew one up, cone ripped but the voice coil was fine
 
we run them 40hz to 250hz


Normally 31 band eq it from 30 - 250 and let the 12s pick them up from there, as the dude above said, perfect for small to medium sized halls, + band work which we will be keeping these cabs for that purpose.

Why do people build ES-218's? Its just the same to build 2 and couple the horn mouths together minus 18mm difference.


@ others what you got in your es18s and what do you x-them over at?

Regards
Buff




Posted By: kallabungo
Date Posted: 03 June 2009 at 1:07pm
Originally posted by Buffmarley Buffmarley wrote:

Originally posted by mashgwan mashgwan wrote:

buff marley, out of intrest what do you cross yours over as we run 4 as bass under some double 10"
but we have recently blew one up, cone ripped but the voice coil was fine
 
we run them 40hz to 250hz


Normally 31 band eq it from 30 - 250 and let the 12s pick them up from there, as the dude above said, perfect for small to medium sized halls, + band work which we will be keeping these cabs for that purpose.

Why do people build ES-218's? Its just the same to build 2 and couple the horn mouths together minus 18mm difference.


@ others what you got in your es18s and what do you x-them over at?

Regards
Buff


 
The crossover is actually set from 20 (although hardly reached) up to 200hz you have to remember we are underpowering our drivers though...


Posted By: Buffmarley
Date Posted: 03 June 2009 at 3:40pm
severly!

cheers stu




Posted By: mashgwan
Date Posted: 04 June 2009 at 8:31am
i would bump the cross over up from 20hz, especially when you run full power through them, how much power are you running through them as they only really come into life when they have full power running through them


Posted By: kallabungo
Date Posted: 04 June 2009 at 8:54am
Yeah i know exactly what you mean, the thing is that there is two of them being run in 4 ohm bridged off a peavey 26! Embarrassed then the same again for the other 2...
 
20hz is hardly reached in tracks and that anyway so it wont see the range that often if at all but it does give the driver the flexibility of being able in certain circumstances to drop real low without a noticable cut where if you were using the crossover at say 30 - 35 hz is more noticable.
 
Once we have more amp power i'll be making adjustments though.


Posted By: mashgwan
Date Posted: 04 June 2009 at 11:30am
how many watts does a peavy 26 run??


Posted By: Buffmarley
Date Posted: 04 June 2009 at 12:56pm
not enough: Bridge Mode-Mono: 8 Ohms: 1800 Watts RMS

maybe on paper but not enough in practice


Posted By: double fred
Date Posted: 18 June 2009 at 1:08pm
Originally posted by biotec biotec wrote:

There is a french sound system called infraktion who have built several double versions. I am not sure which driver they are using but I was extremely suprised by how low they appeared to go. Their sound reminded me of the funktion one bin and they sounded significantly fuller than the USB.
 
I am not sure whether it was the driver or the design but I was suprised by how different they sounded to a similar opile of USBs.
 
I do not have huge experience of either but I think that as a tough Kick cab the USB is hard to beat, but the ES18-BPH does better as an all round bin in an extremly compact size.
 
I should add that it is likely that either will give the sound you want if you choose the right driver for the job.


Was quite unhappy with how it was run at the last frenchtek. dodgy console splitting the signal between various racks meant I couldn't send a summed signal to my bass amps. As if the stereo signal was out of phase.
annyway, ours are loaded with p.audio C18-650EL and each double bin gets 1400w @ 4ohm from a Lab Gruppen 2000c channel.
we run a stack of 6 (so 12 x C18-650EL drivers) 42hz-168hz precisely, there's no eq or anything else, just limiters (must do a proper SMAART session sometimes).
for feewer cabs I up the low cut off point to 45-48.
I've never had a chance to do a proper A-B test with the FK1 218 but after having listened to both or them for a long time at Boom festival last year, I think our double ES-18BPH sounds better and just as loud LOL
What with them using one of the cheapest off the shelve 18" driver, and very little wood for a bass bin.

Overall we're very very pleased with our choice of bass bins, except shortly after our first build, p.audio announced the MKII, with new TS and power handling Cry
I for one gonna have to buy some 2nd hand C18-650EL at some point.




Posted By: sKs01
Date Posted: 18 June 2009 at 1:17pm
we use pd186 in our es18's and i realy like the sound, not had a proper chance for compartivive listening other than with 1 oem turbosound driver which can neither be baught nor reconed.

for those using es18 as sub bring the crossover up higher, it wont produce the low end anyway and your just eating up the power of the amp producing low end content out of the passband of the box.

i tried this myself having the crossover down at 20Hz and then bringing it up to 80HZ or so the signal light dropped on the amp from fullly on all the time to barley glinting and then turned the gains up and was met by a ton of kick.

you might be able to scrape another db or two out of them that way and if you have something go wrong your less likley to break the driver.


-------------
You're a big man, but you're in bad shape. With me it's a full time job. Now behave yourself.


Posted By: SwenK
Date Posted: 21 June 2009 at 1:26pm
Double Fred
 
Is the driver still suitable?
 
I assume the only reason you couldn't use the new drivers with the old just because of mixing drivers in the same band?
 
cheers
 
s.


-------------
It's an artistic piece...but i like it


Posted By: djslacka
Date Posted: 25 June 2009 at 9:55am
has anyone tried using a fane colossus 18xb in es18s? we have some that need a new home and apart from scoops or reflex they seem to be useless for everything else!


Posted By: double fred
Date Posted: 25 June 2009 at 2:48pm
Originally posted by SwenK SwenK wrote:

Double Fred
 
Is the driver still suitable?
 
I assume the only reason you couldn't use the new drivers with the old just because of mixing drivers in the same band?
 
cheers
 
s.


new TS, doesn't mean it won't work but the original plan has been designed with different TS in mind.
anyway, the new drivers are rated at 850w I think, so my amps aren't quite powerfull enough to drive them (as opposed to the old 650w driver whih is just perfect for the amps).


Posted By: biotec
Date Posted: 25 June 2009 at 2:56pm
fred I heard the cabs at the teknival in France in may 2008. I saw your sound system setting up this year but didn't find you again!
 
It is the best I have heard those drivers sound. I think the £ to performance ratio is excellent.


-------------
me so horny, me love you long throw.


Posted By: Mircea Bartic
Date Posted: 25 June 2009 at 3:47pm
Originally posted by double fred double fred wrote:

Originally posted by SwenK SwenK wrote:

Double Fred
 
Is the driver still suitable?
 
I assume the only reason you couldn't use the new drivers with the old just because of mixing drivers in the same band?
 
cheers
 
s.


new TS, doesn't mean it won't work but the original plan has been designed with different TS in mind.
anyway, the new drivers are rated at 850w I think, so my amps aren't quite powerfull enough to drive them (as opposed to the old 650w driver whih is just perfect for the amps).


tested the new C18ELF in the ES18BPH , and found out is sounds better and goes a bit lower


-------------
general manager & head designer at nexus-acoustics research
http://www.facebook.com/nexus.acoustics.research" rel="nofollow - http://www.facebook.com/nexus.acoustics.research

Ex Nexus_3


Posted By: Meat
Date Posted: 25 June 2009 at 4:29pm
Anyone got any of these in Sheffield or Manchester?

Me and a mate are thinking about building some and loading them with some RCFs hes got and we'd like to try the drivers in the cabs before doing the build. The sims look real good and they seem to go to 40Hz ok (but not flat) just want to see if the reality is anything like the sim.

-------------
Don't test the champignon sound


Posted By: djslacka
Date Posted: 03 July 2009 at 10:04am
has anyone tried using fane colossus 18xb in es-18s? i heard that they sound ok in usbs and i know they arent the same box exactly, but would it work?


Posted By: double fred
Date Posted: 03 July 2009 at 2:38pm
Originally posted by biotec biotec wrote:

fred I heard the cabs at the teknival in France in may 2008. I saw your sound system setting up this year but didn't find you again!
 
It is the best I have heard those drivers sound. I think the £ to performance ratio is excellent.



you heard this :





and this is where we stand now :





causing damage Smile + a 508D in the back éé!

We use those TMS4 because we had them sitting in the lockup, I don't like their sound much, the mid-high is weak to my ears and furthermore the bottom section works in the same freq band as our bass bins.
I'd like to build 2 more "porn horn V1", and stack the bass bins 2 wide 3 high underneath, would be a nice compact 10kw.



Posted By: Sequence Empire:::..
Date Posted: 04 July 2009 at 11:58pm
Originally posted by double fred double fred wrote:

... and stack the bass bins 2 wide 3 high underneath, would be a nice compact 10kw.


Been thinking this is going to be the way to go for the low end under my 4 MT121's.
I have access to SD-18's here in New Zealand, so it'd work out 2 stacks of ES-218's 3 high each side with 2 MT121's above per stack.
I have not found any info on how the SD-18's perform other than they have slightly more output & can extend lower than the C-18's in the ES18 cab...
Anyone know what low freq response a set-up like this should do?

I'm interested in the Stapier design as it appears simple in construction & figures/opinions on here are positive, my only problem is I have never heard them before so walking in the dark a little here to firm up what to build.

James


Posted By: nickyburnell
Date Posted: 05 July 2009 at 6:06pm
ES18-BPH
Built two recently. Modded the OTT mouth bracing to be simpler.
Fired one up in anger last night with an old Fane Studio Collosus 4" coil single suspension 400w driver. Gave it about 500w of modern house stuff.
 Pressure levels in front of the cab were amazing, sounded rich and warm 50hz up. Musical. Not one note ish.
 Very efficient cab that seems to be very forgiving of whatever driver it has.
 Was going to put some bigger drivers in to go on top of my 1850 minis, not going to bother, running them from 75hz up the 400w drivers will run at 600w happily.


-------------
It's everything, not everythink!


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 05 July 2009 at 8:06pm
Originally posted by nickyburnell nickyburnell wrote:

ES18-BPH
Built two recently. Modded the OTT mouth bracing to be simpler.
Fired one up in anger last night with an old Fane Studio Collosus 4" coil single suspension 400w driver. Gave it about 500w of modern house stuff.
 Pressure levels in front of the cab were amazing, sounded rich and warm 50hz up. Musical. Not one note ish.
 Very efficient cab that seems to be very forgiving of whatever driver it has.
 Was going to put some bigger drivers in to go on top of my 1850 minis, not going to bother, running them from 75hz up the 400w drivers will run at 600w happily.


I have always wandered how to determine how much power will a 300W 12' take if high-passed at 100Hz and put in a reflex cab?


-------------
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: nickyburnell
Date Posted: 05 July 2009 at 8:14pm
Well from experience as soon as you remove the sub considerably more.
Had some really old fane 2" coil dual concentrics years ago, 100w, flapped like a flag with bass, used them 150hz up as mids, two in a cab for ages, 4r cab used to get 300w all night.
 I recon 1/3 more is a good guess above 100hz in a reflex.


-------------
It's everything, not everythink!


Posted By: fuzzylogic
Date Posted: 05 July 2009 at 9:42pm
Double Fred... hats off to ya they look superb and I'm sure they sound as good to.
Now the question on everyones lips is not how do they compare to Funktion bins... but Void Stasys 8s??

-------------

NEIGHBOURHOOD SOUNDSYSTEM
Infinitely baffled.



Posted By: Ibex
Date Posted: 06 July 2009 at 1:47pm
Hi there!
Can someone help me, I wanna know if a delay of the horn/port length is required in the case of the ES-18BPH?
greez


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 06 July 2009 at 2:24pm
Yes.

-------------
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 06 July 2009 at 2:24pm
But you should delay your tops not the subs :-)

-------------
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: jethrocker
Date Posted: 06 July 2009 at 4:04pm
Unless your tops are for some reason loaded onto longer horns than the Es-18... Just to be pedantic... :)


Posted By: Ibex
Date Posted: 06 July 2009 at 8:27pm
Thanks guys!
Why certainly, the tops have to be delayed... Wink
...only the path length of the horn/port or including the distance from the troat to the driver?


Posted By: nickyburnell
Date Posted: 06 July 2009 at 9:28pm
BP just reminded me, we should wire these out of phase?

-------------
It's everything, not everythink!


Posted By: Saul
Date Posted: 06 July 2009 at 9:49pm
yeah i reckon so as the driver is loaded in backwards. 


Posted By: Saul
Date Posted: 11 July 2009 at 2:18am
just read thru this thread and really think these bins could be something special in big pile. Say a pile of 12, running up to 140hz and then some MT122(or similar) taking over from there. Surely a massive pile would go fairly low - say 35-40 ish? 

I'm also intregued to know how they sound for live work. imagine with a pile of 6 or so either side of a stage could be incredible. Huge efficiency, small managable cab size, and simple and easy to build. Much easier than 1850 horn which only has 1 more dB on the sensitivity and they go as low as each other. I had a set of 4 1850 horns, but always thought they sounded a bit brutish and were a bit of a one note air moving machine, which is not what i want to hear when i want a band to sound clean and crisp. 

Someone experiment please Thumbs Up.  Im looking at a new set of bins to build for live band work, and if i can build a dead easy cab like this, rather than puns or something, then its got to be a winner. 

(i do have an "in progress" custom design of my own mind....)







Posted By: Sequence Empire:::..
Date Posted: 13 July 2009 at 4:11am
+1 for the 6 per side info!



Posted By: Ibex
Date Posted: 13 July 2009 at 6:43am
Which driver do you use in your cabs, saul and sequence empire?
 
My only experience with these cabs are a mono stack of 4 with the Eminence Omega Pro-18 drivers. Awesome for the compact size!
http://www.speakerplans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28315&PID=282955&title=do-you-know-this-project-from-beyma#282955 - http://www.speakerplans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28315&PID=282955&title=do-you-know-this-project-from-beyma#282955
Originally posted by Ibex Ibex wrote:


Yesterday I hab the chance to get an auditory impression of an stack of 4 ES-18BPH loaded with Eminence Omega Pro-18A. They played not too deep, but a clear punchy sound with the right kick. The 4 cabs were driven by 2 bridged QSC 2450, so more than enough power. Their unprocessed response was very flat and they did easily 145dB! They did a better job than a stack of 4 HK RL118!

ES-18BPH x4 - Omega Pro-18A - SPL 113,13V
ES-18BPH x4 - Eminence Omega Pro-18A - SPL 113,13V

greez



Posted By: Sequence Empire:::..
Date Posted: 13 July 2009 at 7:21am
I'm interested in exploring the P-audio SD-18 option for a 1-way bass cab to meet my MT121's as the plans state for greater low extension. 
I would be building ES218's, USB style dual cabs.


Posted By: Ibex
Date Posted: 13 July 2009 at 9:06am
Hi sequence empire, IMHO it won't be the worst choice to take the PAudio SD18...
 
ES18-BPH x2 - PAudio C-18ELF vs. SD18 - SPL
black = ES-218BPH - PAudio SD18
grey = ES-218BPH - PAudio C-18ELF
 
But I would advise you to build 2 single ES-18BPH cabs instead of one ES-218BPH due to the fact that they are much easier to transport furthermore you won't have any performance advantages by building an ES-218BPH compared to stacking 2 ES-18BPH cabs...
cheers


Posted By: Saul
Date Posted: 13 July 2009 at 9:27am
yep i would try to use the recommended drivers where possible too. 

i think there are plenty of other drivers that would also work. ........b&c neos, mmmmm.....


Posted By: Sequence Empire:::..
Date Posted: 13 July 2009 at 9:35am
good work on the plot there Ibex,
Originally posted by Ibex Ibex wrote:

Hi sequence empire, IMHO it won't be the worst choice to take the PAudio SD18...


So you are saying the SD-18 would be a good option?
Do I understand correctly?



Posted By: Ibex
Date Posted: 13 July 2009 at 10:59am
Stipe (designer of this cab) recommended driver for higher SPL and lower cut-off frequency is the PAudio SD18...
...so, yes I think that would be a good option!


Posted By: Buffmarley
Date Posted: 13 July 2009 at 9:29pm
Does anyone else find the es18s need to be coupled with 4 cabs or they realy loose there force?
We split them at a gig last weekend and where disapointed with the difference in throw and dB given from the cabs.




Posted By: Sequence Empire:::..
Date Posted: 14 July 2009 at 8:03am
right on, wasn't 100% lol

as for dual cabs, I don't mind the idea, visual appeal more than anything imo


Posted By: gwarntek
Date Posted: 14 July 2009 at 12:24pm
Anyone up for posting the HR input data for the ES18?
 
Ive worked it out but just to double check you know, as im a bit new to it.
 
Cheers


Posted By: Jake_Fielder
Date Posted: 14 July 2009 at 8:24pm
Originally posted by Saul Saul wrote:

 ..... Surely a massive pile would go fairly low - say 35-40 ish? ....
 
I doubt it! what does a single go down to? because i thought the lowest bass comes from the bandpass chamber so wont benefit from a bigger horn mouth...?


Posted By: Saul
Date Posted: 14 July 2009 at 8:27pm
single does around 50hz, even lower with SD18. So therefore a big pile is going to go right down to around 40-45hz i reckon - which is good enough for live work. 


Posted By: gwarntek
Date Posted: 14 July 2009 at 10:46pm

They are similar to HD15s in design, and from what ive read on here, the number of cabs does make a fair difference right?

 
Dont mean to pester, but anyone with HR data please?


Posted By: Saul
Date Posted: 15 July 2009 at 11:04am
so people: 

BANDPASS HORNS for live work... yay or nay? 

im starting to love ES18s eventhough ive never heard more than 2 together. LOL




Posted By: Jake_Fielder
Date Posted: 15 July 2009 at 11:37am

I simmed this a while ago, i think the tuning of the bandpass bit drops lower as you stack more so they will get lower, you just dont get the horn-like gain in efficiency with the lower end. so you get good efficiency up until the horn stops beconing effective, then a slope down as you get lower...



Posted By: Ibex
Date Posted: 15 July 2009 at 1:23pm
Originally posted by gwarntek gwarntek wrote:

They are similar to HD15s in design, and from what ive read on here, the number of cabs does make a fair difference right?

 
Dont mean to pester, but anyone with HR data please?
 
Yes, HD15 is almost a 15" version of an ES-18BPH...
 
 
ES18-BPH - SD18 - Input
ES-18BPH - PAudio SD18 - Hornresponse Input Data


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 15 July 2009 at 3:31pm
So would 6 a side do 45Hz?

-------------
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: Ibex
Date Posted: 15 July 2009 at 7:56pm
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

So would 6 a side do 45Hz?


-4dB@45Hz? Yes!

ES18-BPH x6 - PAudio SD18 - SPL
ES-18BPH x6 - PAudio SD18 - SPL 1W/2.83V/cab


Posted By: dlyxover
Date Posted: 15 July 2009 at 9:37pm
Im just having my first play with hornresp.
 
Ive used the pd186 in a es18-bph
 
 
 
can anyone see any data i got wrong?
and do i want to press yes on the 'mask throte chabmer and rear chamber resonances' box when i press calculate?
 
cheers


-------------
In the Truth there is no news, and in the News there is no truth


Posted By: Saul
Date Posted: 15 July 2009 at 9:52pm
the reason i ask about using these for live work, is because i dont see many people using Bandpass horns for live work, and i wonder if there is a reason for this? have i missed something? 

I think the ES18 would be a great compact box, and 6 a side would certainly be adequate. 



Posted By: Saul
Date Posted: 15 July 2009 at 9:53pm
also, i think you have missed one of the "S" values out on that HR plot.


Posted By: Jake_Fielder
Date Posted: 15 July 2009 at 10:13pm
Originally posted by dlyxover dlyxover wrote:

Im just having my first play with hornresp.
 
Ive used the pd186 in a es18-bph
 
 
can anyone see any data i got wrong?
and do i want to press yes on the 'mask throte chabmer and rear chamber resonances' box when i press calculate?
 
cheers
I think stipe moddeled it as a 2 part horn, with 2 different flare rates, his input data can be found on the simulation database thread in other plans.
the mask throat thing doesnt really make much differance, also you can stop it asking that in the options


Posted By: dlyxover
Date Posted: 15 July 2009 at 10:28pm
cheers

-------------
In the Truth there is no news, and in the News there is no truth


Posted By: dlyxover
Date Posted: 15 July 2009 at 11:01pm
I work for a company that has the 4 stack of HK audio R series (4 tops 8 subs)

I want to use the same driver and see how they compare, but i love the r series rig


-------------
In the Truth there is no news, and in the News there is no truth


Posted By: doober
Date Posted: 16 July 2009 at 4:32pm
Lots of people use bandpass horns for live work, the Turbosound and Funktion one versions being the most common.

I've not modelled any in hornresp, but surely you don't want to mask the resonances as these are an important part of the design. It must be the resonances which allow such a short horn to produce bass?

-------------
Blahblahblah


Posted By: Jake_Fielder
Date Posted: 16 July 2009 at 4:41pm
I believe they only appear out side of the normal useable freq range of a bass cab anyway.


Posted By: Ibex
Date Posted: 16 July 2009 at 9:01pm
Originally posted by Jake_Fielder Jake_Fielder wrote:

Originally posted by dlyxover dlyxover wrote:

Im just having my first play with hornresp.
 
Ive used the pd186 in a es18-bph
 
 
can anyone see any data i got wrong?
and do i want to press yes on the 'mask throte chabmer and rear chamber resonances' box when i press calculate?
 
cheers
I think stipe moddeled it as a 2 part horn, with 2 different flare rates, his input data can be found on the simulation database thread in other plans.
the mask throat thing doesnt really make much differance, also you can stop it asking that in the options


Doesn't make a big difference to moddel the horn with 2 different flare rates.
It's more incongruent if you don't subtract the driver displacement from the front chamber, seems that the guys from the database thread forgot to do this...?
greez


Posted By: Ibex
Date Posted: 16 July 2009 at 9:04pm
Originally posted by Jake_Fielder Jake_Fielder wrote:

I believe they only appear out side of the normal useable freq range of a bass cab anyway.


I'm in complete agreement...


Posted By: Ibex
Date Posted: 16 July 2009 at 9:10pm
Originally posted by dlyxover dlyxover wrote:

I work for a company that has the 4 stack of HK audio R series (4 tops 8 subs)

I want to use the same driver and see how they compare, but i love the r series rig


The design of the HK RL118 is bloody similar to the ES-18BPH.
An Eminence Omega Pro-18A will do a better job than the original PD186... we have tried a view weeks ago:
http://www.speakerplans.com/Forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=27036&PID=285111&title=es18bph#285111
greez


Posted By: Centauri
Date Posted: 17 July 2009 at 12:43am
Originally posted by dlyxover dlyxover wrote:

can anyone see any data i got wrong?


Cms is incorrect - try 1.88E-04


Posted By: Father-Francis
Date Posted: 17 July 2009 at 9:23pm
this what am thinking make the cab 500mm instead of 600mm ES218- load with PD186 , model it and see wicked box .

-------------
Music is the strongest form of magic.(+45 31879997)blakmanpro@gmail.com, foa@sweetboxaudio.dk


Posted By: Saul
Date Posted: 17 July 2009 at 10:08pm
i dont get the plans to this cab, ive tried modelling it on CAD, and nothing seems to add up.... anyone else discovered this? 

Basically if you draw the side plan of the box, the panel lengths don't match. 


Posted By: Sequence Empire:::..
Date Posted: 17 July 2009 at 10:34pm
Originally posted by Saul Saul wrote:

i dont get the plans to this cab, ive tried modelling it on CAD, and nothing seems to add up.... anyone else discovered this? 

Basically if you draw the side plan of the box, the panel lengths don't match. 


I've drawn ES218's in CAD... no problems over here...

I'll link you up the dxf from work on monday... just a 2-D program but I have done 3-view drawings & true flat panels from that for router cutting.
Ez
Jim


Posted By: kiriiz
Date Posted: 19 July 2009 at 9:50am
Hi guys! Sorry for my English, i'll try to explain )

How do you think, will ES18-BPH play lower if you add ports like this?


I know, it will influence on cab efficiency, but otherwise it will be more efficient then simple ported enclosure.

May be it will be something like Martin Audio WMX


Thank you.


Posted By: nickyburnell
Date Posted: 19 July 2009 at 7:17pm
Originally posted by Saul Saul wrote:

i dont get the plans to this cab, ive tried modelling it on CAD, and nothing seems to add up.... anyone else discovered this? 

Basically if you draw the side plan of the box, the panel lengths don't match. 
I'm not suggesting this is what you've done but I had a moment of madness with these. I drew the box on a panel and the internals were wrong. THEN I realised I was 90 degress out with the panel, the cab is deeper than tall, DOH! After that it all added up. Confused 

-------------
It's everything, not everythink!


Posted By: Saul
Date Posted: 19 July 2009 at 8:29pm
yeah i don't think ive made that mistake. 

the side panels should be 750 deep by 670 high. 

i drew up the plan as per the plan on the ES18 sheet, but then the panels don't fit onto the plan. Confused

on the panel lengths i assume the measurements are to the longest point.....


Posted By: gwarntek
Date Posted: 27 July 2009 at 2:22pm
Originally posted by Saul Saul wrote:

yeah i don't think ive made that mistake. 

the side panels should be 750 deep by 670 high. 

i drew up the plan as per the plan on the ES18 sheet, but then the panels don't fit onto the plan. Confused

on the panel lengths i assume the measurements are to the longest point.....
 
That is correct, but there is a very small difference in some of the angles on part D. Where it meets part C is not exactly 90 degrees.
 
If the lower edge of part D meets part E at the measurement of 77 the angles work out ok, but volumes etc dont. Whereas if the higher edge of part D meets part E at 77 the volumes work out fine, but the angles dont.
 
I found it best to get out the planer and adjust by eye.


Posted By: Saul
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 11:32pm
Originally posted by gwarntek gwarntek wrote:

Originally posted by Saul Saul wrote:

yeah i don't think ive made that mistake. 

the side panels should be 750 deep by 670 high. 

i drew up the plan as per the plan on the ES18 sheet, but then the panels don't fit onto the plan. Confused

on the panel lengths i assume the measurements are to the longest point.....
 
That is correct, but there is a very small difference in some of the angles on part D. Where it meets part C is not exactly 90 degrees.
 
If the lower edge of part D meets part E at the measurement of 77 the angles work out ok, but volumes etc dont. Whereas if the higher edge of part D meets part E at 77 the volumes work out fine, but the angles dont.
 
I found it best to get out the planer and adjust by eye.

LOL

it's all good now, i re- drew it up on autoCAD and it turns out there needs to be a 2 degree angle on the front end of the baffle. The rear end of the baffle is infact 37 not 40 degrees. The top angle on C is infact 39, not 40. All worked perfectly after that. 


has anyone modelled V18-1000 in these?? 

they would fit with little slots for the magnet, like in the hog scoop.


Posted By: gwarntek
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 2:06am
Glad it worked out in the end... haha i got the same end result as you.
 
On the topic of simming, i can't get HR to put out a decent graph for the ES18, despite using the posted inputs. Can any of you please sim a celestion FTR4080FD and a Fane XB in the ES18 by any chance?
 
Would be much appreciated :) or even if you caould email me the file for one or the other? Just need to work out what im doing wrong you see.


Posted By: El Cheapo
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 4:17pm
No fan of sims, can tell you though that two loaded with Fane 18B 600, that's the single suspension model that Roy at RMJ thinks is a better driver, deliver the goods. In a non Dub (step) situation these do a lovely full bass job, far more output than a CVA cab loaded with the same (reflex). As kick, with techno, running 75 up, on top of minis they bang you in the chest. As a footnote, there seems to be a lot of, "Music" that has no kick around now though.


Posted By: sKs01
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 11:35pm
@saul
just modeled the v18 1000 in their compared to the p.audio sd18 it models a 3db more efficient at 80Hz and about 2db more efficient at 200Hz between the two points the efficiency dips to more or less the same.
as im not sure how to model multiples of these i cant say how nicely it will smooth out but it should be pretty brutal.

-------------
You're a big man, but you're in bad shape. With me it's a full time job. Now behave yourself.


Posted By: Saul
Date Posted: 31 July 2009 at 8:28am
nice one!

how low did it go? I'm looking at these as a one way bass solution for live work. 1850 horn goes to 54hz, and so does this, and theres not a huge diff. in efficiency.

what are your HR inputs? 


Posted By: jamwa
Date Posted: 31 July 2009 at 3:22pm
Hey Saul
 
If you are looking at using them for live work I would go with the ES18 as they have a shorter horn length and you wont need as much delay on your tops to comensate.
 
yeah and let me know as I have HD's for smaller set ups but would prefer 1 box solutions for simple band rigs...
 
J


-------------
Sound, Light, Projection, Display, Cameras and production support


Posted By: sKs01
Date Posted: 31 July 2009 at 5:15pm
im using a combination of the ones in the model library in the new projects forum and my own deductive reasoning from the plan itself, i would take a screenshot but the simulations gone walkabout. 

the low end cuttof is unaffected its just more efficient.


-------------
You're a big man, but you're in bad shape. With me it's a full time job. Now behave yourself.


Posted By: ಠ_ಠ
Date Posted: 11 August 2009 at 10:31pm
how about ported es18? one box solution for hd15+x1?


Posted By: lorenzo14
Date Posted: 12 August 2009 at 2:09am
Has anyone used a PD1850 in these?

-------------
Invention is 93% perspiration...


Posted By: Saul
Date Posted: 12 August 2009 at 9:11am
PD1850 and V18-1000 model quite well in these, although magnet slot will need to be cut to get them in. 


Posted By: Sequence Empire:::..
Date Posted: 26 August 2009 at 10:19pm
Would appear that no longer recommended... CL-650 or SD18

Fane 18XB has been suggested for giving decent low end extension? anyone care to model?




Posted By: king david
Date Posted: 27 August 2009 at 12:04am
.

-------------
http://www.warriorcharge.noblogs.org


Posted By: king david
Date Posted: 27 August 2009 at 7:57pm
.

-------------
http://www.warriorcharge.noblogs.org


Posted By: bitzo
Date Posted: 27 August 2009 at 8:07pm
trembling... nightmare of every builders......
put 2 additional braces under panel b, so you have the original brace between the original, so you can screw the additional ones on the original brace, on panel b and h. I hope could be helpful

-------------
http://www.unitedroots.it - United Roots SoundSystem site


Posted By: nomis
Date Posted: 27 August 2009 at 8:09pm
are you sure there is a good baffle seal?
access hatch/wadding ok?
cable touching cone?
hope you find it soon



Print Page | Close Window

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.06 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2023 Web Wiz Ltd. - https://www.webwiz.net