Dead V18-1200....am i the first to kill one?
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Category: General
Forum Name: Electro Frying Forum
Forum Description: Talk about drivers, processors and mixers
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=27517
Printed Date: 27 March 2026 at 4:55am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.08 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Dead V18-1200....am i the first to kill one?
Posted By: smithers
Subject: Dead V18-1200....am i the first to kill one?
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 9:41am
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we took the new v1200 loaded Hogs out last night, started with 2, ended with 1.
spent ages setting up a good gain structure before the gig, got it all sounding nice, went home and had my tea and came back to the gig, which kicked off at about 8. went back to the gig, powered up the system and got cracking, for about 3 hours it was all good, getting loads of positive comments about the sound. read into the T amp specs and it does say it will produce 2kw @8r in bridged mono, so after rog's comments about hanging an infinate 8 off them and throwing 2kw at each driver i decided even with chinese watts we had enough juice in the amps to give them plenty of clean power without clipping, limiters were set @ -15Db on the DCX with 35-80hz 48 butterworth x over, and the gains on the amps set to about 3 o clock (not very technical i know) all seemed well, so i went out for a smoke with my mate, came back, and 1 bin had stopped working, no noise or cone movement, dead as a dodo. . checked everything, swapped the cable from the working bin, nothing. couldnt get to the driver as it was behind a grill, but i'm about 98% sure its dead. as i wasnt in the room when it happened its hard to say what happened before the bin stopped working, but the bar manager didnt mention any distortion, or that the box sounded like it was about to blow, it just stopped working.....? gonna pick up the system this morning and inspect the suspect driver, if it is blown i'm going to be pretty gutted, firstly because of the cost factor, and secondly, after running fanes for years and moving up to the big boys driver, i did hope they would be able to take more power than we were giving them last night without sh*tting themselves on their first outing. so anyone know what the damage is for a v1200 recone? or am i the first to need one? if i am the first, maybe void will send me one as a prize! |
Replies:
Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 11:08am
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Gutted man, I hate killing drivers, feel for your loss.
My only thoughts are limiting / attenuator setting on the proline. The prolines have very sensitive inputs, I usually find I have to turn the limiter on the DCX right down as low as it will go with the amp set at fully open, this prevents any cliping (in most situations!). Maybe some cheeky bugger played with the amp while you were outside? Have you anything like an AVC2 in the chain before the DCX? Of course I'm gunna also say... Should have gone for the real daddy - the PD1850 instead of the P.Audio ;) ------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: smithers
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 11:27am
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i wasnt a proline, 2 T amp 2400's in bridge mode, 1 on each bin.
dispite the fact that T amps get totally slated on here, i'm happy running them for the time being, there was also a small (5-6kw) in house martin audio w3 system being powered by crest amps, which was running before i got there, and when i switched our rig on the output from our "DIY boxes, 'crappy' T amps & vintage macrotechs" made the matrin rig look like a joke....got loads of positive comments from punters and dj's for the bass that was being churned out. dont get me wrong, i'm happy with our purchase, the bass is very defined, and the output from 2 bins is pretty damn impressive, last night was a bit of a learning curve to see how far we could push the boxes, and now we know!! and i think even the mighty 1850 would have been on its knee's with the kind of punishment the V-1200's were taking last night.... straight up relentless dubstep pressure! i've never seen an 18" driver in action quite like a V-1200, its very impressive indeed. gonna pick the gear up shortly so i'll know for sure what the cause of death was in a few hours. |
Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 11:36am
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Do the T-amps get a slating? I quite like the 2400 of Florians, seams to be all round better than the EP2500, power / sound and good build quality for a "low cost" amp.
2k into 1 driver on dubstep is pretty hardcore. ------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: smithers
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 11:56am
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T-amp? slating? Talk to heathrom B line!
rog said it would eat up 2k from an inf 8 so i thought it would be ok on the T amp, which probably puts out considerably less in the bass end. it wasnt going balls to the wall either, gains were set at about 3 o clock so there was more juice in the tanks, all the levels were looking good, nothing had been turned up while i had been gone...its a real mystery. although highly unlikely, there is a massive part of me that hopes that a wire has come loose inside the box, when i put my head down near the mouth, the air movement going on was quite frightening....so i'm praying a shoddy bit of soldering will save the day! |
Posted By: Tiff
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 12:20pm
| seems odd,2k at 8 ohm bridge,as long as it wernt on full,i cant imagine a v1200 with green lights flowing doing any damage to them cones.any red lights anywhere else? |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 12:26pm
P-audio? ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
the PD1850 instead of the P.AudioPosted By: nickyburnell
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 12:32pm
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Yep, P Audio ------------- It's everything, not everythink! |
Posted By: Father-Francis
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 12:41pm
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr9xWZy21No&feature=related sorry couldn´t help it ever seen this picture , don´t you always listen , to people , I say V-1000 in the hog should be running 2 of xp 3000 tonight got Busy Signal in the house tonight-. ------------- Music is the strongest form of magic.(+45 31879997)blakmanpro@gmail.com, foa@sweetboxaudio.dk |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 12:41pm
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So the Void V18-1200 is a P-audio OEM then? Or is it just a P-audio sourced chassis? ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: Father-Francis
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 12:43pm
you don´t say  ------------- Music is the strongest form of magic.(+45 31879997)blakmanpro@gmail.com, foa@sweetboxaudio.dk |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 12:48pm
My condolences on your loss.
V18-1200 won't take 2kw of sub heavy material. And I said it before in Scoop forum and was crucified. It wont take 1200W of it either. Its not very sensitive, so it takes more power to reach the same SPL as 1850, but by the time you've got it there, its about to blow. You're not the first to blow V18-1200s, ask Marvin.  ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 12:58pm
I read a post a while back, allegeding that all Void drivers are made by Paudio. Someone also told me, Paudio are not supplying some of their UK distributors due to, "financial factors". ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 1:02pm
Don't jump the gun yet Lev, as there's still a possibility one of the wires have jumped off somewhere.
------------- **Heavy Weight-Line** A home without books is like a body with no soul. |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 1:06pm
Rog previously commented on where the various components for the V1000 came from, which was why I asked if it was P-audio OEM, or just the chassis. I'm not sure that you can really brand it a p-audio driver if it is 'just' the chassis.
So, what's the rub here, or is it just conjecture and winking smileys? ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: nickyburnell
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 1:13pm
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Just a bit of sarcasm, probably fuelled by the lousey service/inability to call back/answer email of a certain seller. PD got just as much stick when they had a bad batch... ------------- It's everything, not everythink! |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 1:14pm
I was one of the first people to try out the V18-1200, and compare it with other drivers. I have also owned 4x of them. That isn't conjecture. Its documented in Scoop forum. Marvin has a mate with a few blown drivers. Cant remember if they are V18-1000 or v18-1200, that's why I said ask him. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 1:20pm
Sorry Nicky, I may not be getting this, was the p-audio comment just a snipe about the reliability of the Void 1200 or was it actually about the fact they are a p-audio product?
So you are confirming it's a p-audio yes?
Sorry, I may not have been clear, I'm aware drivers break, I'm not too fussed about whether anyone knows about any others or whatever, it was the p-audio comment I was interested in, as it could have been an innocent typo - or not.
------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 1:25pm
Yes, hope so. Would be sickening to lose driver so quickly. Spoke to RMJ about reconing Voids a while back, and he said if enough people need the service, he might be able to do something. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: Heathrow_B_line
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 1:51pm
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you lot are obsessed with putting stupidly high current through boxes
dont look at power, look at the spl produced
if its loud enough - cool
if not try to increase the efficiency of the cab or take more boxes
simples ------------- Produce a killer sound. Take no prisoners. |
Posted By: nickyburnell
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 2:01pm
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Norty, if it was me that quoted P Audio I would have done it in a sort of schoolboy snipe, jovial way. Of course it's probably only the chassis made there. I'm sure Turbo Max chassis is made somewhere else, as is Wembly's. It's just that P Audio is seen as a little chinese (probably wrongly) so the jibe is used. Void make wonderful kit, PAP IMHO really don't help the cause at all. I'm sure it's not the staffs fault as when dealing with them personally I've been nothing but pleased. The fact remains if your service is bad jibes will come. People need to know whern the drivers will be available, they need answers to emails, if there is trouble at mill honesty will prevail, not silence. I would much rather support the small guy, if the service is so poor then I cant. Then I'm only a little tiny player so it won't matter.
So to summerise, the P Audio bit is just a jibe as far as I can see, bit like, "Yeah but it's stll a Skoda"
:) ------------- It's everything, not everythink! |
Posted By: nickyburnell
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 2:05pm
 Not often I agree HBL. Absolutly true. I've had people tell me that my 8r bridged UKP1600 is not enough for my two 16r PD1850's. Yes it is. 1600w proper watts is fine. The gains for normal use in adding loads more power arn't worth it. It's loud, efficient and safe. ------------- It's everything, not everythink! |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 2:12pm
Recently, a number of allegations have surfaced regarding Void drivers being manufactured by Paudio or in China. Also mentioned to me, was the fact that Paudio are not supplying certain UK distributors, due to certain "financial disagreements". I am neither confirming or denying, explicitly or implicitly, the authenticity or any unfounded nature of the above two statements or any connection thereof.  ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: nickyburnell
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 2:26pm
 You're wasted Lev. Stand for election.------------- It's everything, not everythink! |
Posted By: Father-Francis
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 2:44pm
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"Yeah but it's stll a Skoda" Those are Vw´s  not Skodas anymore , they are from the west not eastIf i remember right it´s only the chassis made in the east ------------- Music is the strongest form of magic.(+45 31879997)blakmanpro@gmail.com, foa@sweetboxaudio.dk |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 2:47pm
Dat's the ting dere matey. Can really count on one hand, how many amps give out "proper" 1600W (20hz-20khz) at 8ohms bridge, or 1600W at 4ohm stereo. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: smithers
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 2:49pm
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ok update.
just got back from picking up the system, 1 driver dead as suspected. removal of the cone has revealed a very black voice coil with arc marks at various points around the voice coil.....sure signs of too much power over a sustained period of time. i'm confident no clipping was going on, the poineer mixer was hitting 1 red light in the worst instances, and everything else was set up as it should be, so i think too much power is the cause of death in this instance. every other driver is fine, especially my shiney new BMS comp drivers that were sounding very nice indeed last night, and are a massive improvement to my old P audio units....cannot recommend them enough. so, recone prices anyone? |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 3:01pm
------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: nickyburnell
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 3:16pm
------------- It's everything, not everythink! |
Posted By: nickyburnell
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 3:19pm
|
[Dat's the ting dere matey. Can really count on one hand, how many amps give out "proper" 1600W (20hz-20khz) at 8ohms bridge, or 1600W at 4ohm stereo. [/QUOTE] Gotta be close  ------------- It's everything, not everythink! |
Posted By: Heathrow_B_line
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 3:24pm
get the new ukp's
you will be shocked at their performance and sound quality ------------- Produce a killer sound. Take no prisoners. |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 4:24pm
Cool, just wanted to know the facts, as between this and the Technics thread I'm getting a bit sick of 'I read it on the internet so it must be true' syndrome - and the fact that between 3 or 4 audio sites used by a lot of people you can sort of track these things back to off the cuff comments that are misconstrued.
I couldn't care one way or the other whether they are or not, all of my experience of P-audio has been good, but I just know in 6 months someone will reference that 'V18-1200 = P-audio' out of context and hares will be set running... ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 5:09pm
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Sorry was just a cheeky jibe in reference to Rog's post sbout where verious parts of the V18s come from, no more than that... I think I'[m right in saying P.Audio have the largest and most advanced driver factory in the world.. so it's certainly nothing to be ashamed of (as Nicky said it's like the skoda / vw thing).
On the subject of Void drivers... The V18-1200 is ment to have a Kurt muller cone.. is this the case with the V18-1000? ------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 7:27pm
| Overheating is what killed the driver then, not too much power. You said it was a night of relentless dubstep, which is heavy work for any bass cabinet. If someone could find or quote a post where Rog said he thought that putting 2000w continuous into each driver all night was a good idea I'd like to see it - that value is about right for peak output but if you put 2k into pretty much any coil for 6 hours solid it'd burn up. |
Posted By: Tony Wilkes
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 7:45pm
Sorry to hear about the driver but glad you seem to be happy with the comps. Did you cross them at 1.3K ? Tony |
Posted By: smithers
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 8:34pm
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oh yes indeed tony!
was gonna do a seperate post at some point doing a little write up, but got side tracked by the dead drivers! the BMS comps are simply sublime, and tony is also a lovely guy to do business with. i A/B'd one against the old P audio unit and the difference in sound quality was staggering. so much more dynamic and crisp, they go lower, and higher than my old units. dubstep wasnt really the ideal test for sound quality, but at the gig they sounded snappy, and plenty loud enough, i was optimistic about the 1.3 x/over, but they sounded great, and mimised the gap between from 1-2.2khz we had with the old BMD 450. i tried them at home on some more downtempo stuff with vocals to see how they performed and it was very impressive, i'd run a pair of those comps in my Hi fi set up any day. all in all i'm very happy, didnt like the idea of a 2" driver, i just dont like the sound of them, and these comps cost less and sound so much better, so this suits my needs perfectly. |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 8:49pm
Is overheating not simply the symptom of too much power? ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: mikey bear
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 8:49pm
| what model is the comp? |
Posted By: smithers
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 9:24pm
http://www.bmspro.info/4544.bms_4544_compression_driver.0.html that compression driver is here whenever you want it mikey. |
Posted By: smithers
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 10:08pm
i was thinking the same thing. i'll post a picture up of the burnt voice coil when i get a chance. what i did notice is that the v1200 voice coil was black, proper burned out, so it did take a hell of a beating before it gave up, i've got a 186 cone and coil here from another driver on the recone pile, and its voicecoil looks pretty much normal, like it didnt put up much of a fight when it died. |
Posted By: nickyburnell
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 10:32pm
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Dubstep, music (loose description) designed to destroy speakers? ------------- It's everything, not everythink! |
Posted By: pfly
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 11:06pm
| If someone would invent some really really efficient way of cooling down drivers, Like if pole piece was tooled to have some channels for water cooling. |
Posted By: nickyburnell
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 11:24pm
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Good idea, but if the bass and distortion of this music genre carries on getting more extreme then there will need to be a reurn to servodrive technology maybe? ------------- It's everything, not everythink! |
Posted By: Heathrow_B_line
Date Posted: 08 June 2009 at 12:29am
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a scoop os great at cooling the driver down.
if you redline a metro and try and get it upto 150mph you will make it go bang ------------- Produce a killer sound. Take no prisoners. |
Posted By: Rog
Date Posted: 08 June 2009 at 3:11am
Ha ha, please don't slate people for free speach Norty.
You have no idea the fun it gives me reading what the guessers have come up with every morning.
I'm even thinking about a new section called 'guess what' where all the guessers can post there latest reincarnations. It would save me from having to check all the sections then to find all the juiciest entertainment.
@smithers.
I'm sorry you had problems, but 2k into any 1200 watt driver with dubsetp will kill it.
I'd also like to know where I said an inf 8 putting 2k into a V18-1200 was ok. In fact I would like to know how to get 2k from an inf 8 into an 8 ohm driver. If you hang one driver from each side you get about 1500 watts, two drivers per side would get about 1400 watts each and four from each side would get about 1k each. I've tried all these combinations with an inf 8 and a V18-1200 and have never blown a driver. If you were to bridge an inf 8 into an 8 ohm driver it would get around 2800 watts, which is toast time for any driver with sub heavy material . Please understand that an amp might have a total output of 4000 watts, but if you connect two drivers to it, each driver will not get 2000 watts. Things like impedance need to be looked into when calculating power.
Also understand that an amp with its volume knob set at 3 o'clock will not be putting out a third of its power or less than it would if the knob was set flat out. It's possible to get full output from any amp with the volume knob set to 1 or 10.
Which amp was driving the PD186 that you blew up, as I've never managed to take out a PD186.
|
Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 08 June 2009 at 12:05pm
Giving a driver too much power constantly is one potential factor of overheating, yes. But it's not the only one. Even if the amp was not explicitly clipping, there is a good chance that somebody was getting filter/effects happy at the mixer and adding extra sub-harmonics to the bass. What was the HPF on the Hogs? What kind of slope did you use? Does the T.Amp have any kind of other HPF on it to stop the stuff that'd never be audible? |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 08 June 2009 at 12:11pm
Please give an example of overheating that isn't caused by too much power? ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: smithers
Date Posted: 08 June 2009 at 12:18pm
err, this is where i got the impression i could have 2kw hanging off a V18-1200.
|
Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 08 June 2009 at 1:00pm
Take the HPF on your bass cabinets down to 0Hz and turn on a subharmonic synthesizer
Smithers: I don't see anywhere in that quote where Rog explicitly says 'put 2000w into it, that's a great idea'. Just that it was designed to work with over 1200w going into it for an entire night. |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 08 June 2009 at 1:12pm
Ok, so you get very slow cycles which lead to very long +ve and -ve durations (relatively) which cause the VC to glow and burn.
How is that not overpowering? For me, the definition of overpowering is anything that causes the coil to heat enough to cause it damage. Whether that be 50w DC, or 2Kw AC its all 'overpowering' the coil.
What you describe is effectively applying DC to the speaker, and most people know that a drivers rated power is only valid based on reasonable operating parameters. ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 08 June 2009 at 1:19pm
May not say its a great idea, but it clearly states ... Test is recommended with 2000W applied over 4 hours. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: Rog
Date Posted: 08 June 2009 at 1:22pm
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Yep, I'm not seeing where I said put 2000 watts into a V18-1200 either.
I did say that during the test the guys did they should have used a bigger amp as I believe the test was carried out with a Peavey amp. An Infinite 8 mk2 would have been good, but I still believe that if its a good amp an you are in total control of the situation and have the experience to pull it off, that a 2000 watt amp could be used with a V18-1200. But it could not be with source material that contains say 30Hz sustained for long periods. Reggae and dub would be ok as theres not much below 40Hz, but dub step or R&B would require the use of a smaller amp.
|
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 08 June 2009 at 1:30pm
A VZ5 driving 2x PD186s per channel could easily take them all out, in reflex/scoop/folded horn, if the low cut off is set between 30-40hz, and eq is applied approx 50-60hz. Lots of Soundsystems prefer the sound of PD186s to 1850s, but kept blowing them, so they upgraded to 1850s, even if it meant replacing warm deep sound, with aggression. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: Rog
Date Posted: 08 June 2009 at 1:38pm
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Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 08 June 2009 at 1:53pm
Jah Tubbys also used to use PD186, then went to 1850s, tried V18s, and is now using Turbomax. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: Rog
Date Posted: 08 June 2009 at 2:20pm
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But he also still drives a VW golf that he's had for 20 years.
I tried VW golf's but blew them all up in less than 10 mins. Then I tried Nissans, but I blew all them up too.
I now have a car with large Honda Vtec engine and can't blow that up.
Circles, circles, circles, round and round and round..........
Hold on tight and scream if you want to go louder.
|
Posted By: SteveAATW
Date Posted: 08 June 2009 at 2:34pm
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The VTEC does have an ECU that will actively stop you blowing it up though, speakers don't
|
Posted By: pfly
Date Posted: 08 June 2009 at 3:12pm
| Shouldn't Inf8 help to protect speakers also? It should detect when severe overexcursion occurs. |
Posted By: tweeter box
Date Posted: 08 June 2009 at 3:37pm
 Here you go;
i guess it is kinda misleading!
dont worry, you werent alone
 ------------- PRECISION SOUND SYSTEM. Feeding the peoples needs for Roots Music. Strictly premium grade reggae and dub steppers from the early 70's to present day. |
Posted By: nickyburnell
Date Posted: 08 June 2009 at 3:51pm
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My car has a rev limiter too, infact all my cars have, my ears. ------------- It's everything, not everythink! |
Posted By: ceharden
Date Posted: 08 June 2009 at 4:00pm
That doesn't surprise me at all. The 50-60Hz region just above the reflex tuning or cut-off of the horn is where the cabinet has the least control over the driver (assuming a 35-40Hz tuning). Just look at an impedance or excursion plot. Adding EQ at that point is going to really stress the driver, take it into the non-linear excursion region and cause the voice coil to get rather toasty! |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 08 June 2009 at 4:16pm
Yup, I know so many dudes who have blown PD186s for the same Reason. Just as it was getting enough power/eq to sound real nice... Pop goes the weasel... Same power/setup with 1850/V18-1000, bliss.. Paulus? ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: H...
Date Posted: 08 June 2009 at 4:22pm
I'm with Nicky on this - EARS!
Doesn't matter if its a 30 quid sky tech or a posh PD or Void - sh*t in sh*t out whatever amp whatever driver, YOU should be able to hear something going beyond its limits and do something about it
 ------------- Don't worry F$cked up bigger gigs than this one........... |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 08 June 2009 at 5:36pm
Not applicable to all drivers. PD186/PD1850 sound absolutely lovely right up until limits. Then pop. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: smithers
Date Posted: 08 June 2009 at 5:40pm
i'm with lev on this one. before i left the room everything was ticking over nicely, levels were all spot on, bins sounded nice, i even turned it down a touch because i knew i was going for a smoke outside.... i'm not gonna stand in front of my brand new drivers listening to them begging for their lives, and then walk out of the room. |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 08 June 2009 at 5:52pm
Yup. Going "only" by how things sound, is a sure fire way of blowing even the pit bull 1850. If I know I'm giving drivers a lot of juice from a real amp, I'm listening, watching levels, even walking upto cabs to see if driver is trying to fly out. A number of amps even have a rep for kindly placing a free portion of DC into subs. Not just Chinese amps, but "English amps" as well. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: nickyburnell
Date Posted: 08 June 2009 at 5:55pm
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Misunderstanding here. I DID NOT mean the speakers. I am aware 1850's do this, also a BP cab is very hard to monitor. I meant engines, there is a red line, don't miss a gear and have some mechanical sympathy.
No offence Smithers.. ------------- It's everything, not everythink! |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 08 June 2009 at 6:03pm
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Smithers, did you contact Roy yet about possible recone? ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: smithers
Date Posted: 08 June 2009 at 8:53pm
not yet, its on tomorrow's hit list, the 186 also need to go and see him too so if its possible i'll do it all in one hit. no offence taken nicky, its clear i'm hard on my kit. its not my living thoough, it was a good learning curve, and it was impressive to see what they can do! i'll be on the hunt for another V18-1200 if anyone has gone one going spare in the next few weeks, or a PD1850 at the right price so we can do some A/B testing. |
Posted By: H...
Date Posted: 08 June 2009 at 9:31pm
Sorry but my professional opinion is Bollocks!  ------------- Don't worry F$cked up bigger gigs than this one........... |
Posted By: nickyburnell
Date Posted: 08 June 2009 at 9:40pm
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H... I actually agree, just wasn't pointig the finger. However my experience does not include Dubstep, just normal music where I'm sure I could hear any issues.
I actually know a sound guy who used to always be stoned or worse, blew his kit up weekly ;)
He's all grown up now with lots of kit, never blows anything. He says he can hear it now, sort of proves your point  ------------- It's everything, not everythink! |
Posted By: colint
Date Posted: 08 June 2009 at 9:58pm
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Surely if you have to drive you kit that hard you need a bigger system?
I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would spend that amount of hard earned and trash the arse out of it?.
please don't take the above comment the wrong way, but it seems strange that so many people drive speakers with huge amounts of power for hours at a time then wonder why the sh*t hits the fan!.
I started messing with sound about 1970 and can truthfully say I have never blown a driver? am I doing something wrong cos I'm starting to feel a bit left out! ------------- Never criticise another man until you've walked a mile in his shoes. Once you have, call him what you like, you're a mile away and you've got his shoes! |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 08 June 2009 at 11:51pm
Erm... How many PD186s/PD1850s have you owned mate !? I even know stories of drivers playing fine until end of gig, then when trying them the next day they are dead. Paulus, step up please... ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: H...
Date Posted: 09 June 2009 at 6:29am
Beta tested them before they were a comerical product mate! ------------- Don't worry F$cked up bigger gigs than this one........... |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 09 June 2009 at 8:59am
Yes, but how many have you personally owned and operated? As the first thing anyone who has owned PD1850 and overpowered it will tell you is, you get a nice sound that is almost growling, then pop. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: AlfieDring
Date Posted: 09 June 2009 at 9:44am
Woofers lev, not growlers! Ive never used 1850's but in principle agree with H on this one. Put a sinewave in at a friendly 40hz or so, turn up till what you hear is not a sinewave anymore, THAT is distortion caused by too much power, you are out of the linear range. Set your limiters to prevent the onset of that sound and then if you want it back recreate it in small signal hardware. Use more boxes and amps to make up the SPL drop and your sorted. Alf |
Posted By: ceharden
Date Posted: 09 June 2009 at 9:44am
That tells me that you actually like the sound of a driver being driven past it's limit. The 'growling' sound is most likely harmonics caused by non-linear motion of the cone. |
Posted By: boycey
Date Posted: 09 June 2009 at 9:49am
and people think i'm odd for liking glitch ------------- the only thing more dangerous than a person who doesn't give a f**k is a person who gives a sh*t. |
Posted By: Tedski
Date Posted: 09 June 2009 at 9:56am
Whatever happened to the tried and tested method of calculating limiter settings for the LMS, and then trying to stay out of said limit at the gig? Makes any rig dubstep-proof. Edit: http://www.teddyb.dds.nl/Audio_Calculator.xls - Very useful excel sheet for limit calculations |
Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 09 June 2009 at 10:12am
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In some enclosures you can't easily hear the driver reaching it's limits (bandpass cabs are particularly bad for this)... but when they are really in distress you can... however, in a scoop you should be able to (I would have thought - obviously Lev has experience to the contrary).
I'v not had the experience of blowing a PD1850, but I have heard one driven to the point of the voice coil slapping the back plate for a good 30-60 seconds.. and the driver lived thru it and carried on sounding fine afterwards... I have also seen / heard them driven for many hours at the point where you can smell them cooking in scoops, and they kept on going (and sounded good doing it). ------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: Rog
Date Posted: 09 June 2009 at 11:39am
That's far too professional an idea Alf. It will never catch on.
@H,
Ha ha, if only the guessers were good enough to know who you are and what you have done in this industry.
I would have said that I've never used a PD in my life, just to keep um guessing like.
|
Posted By: H...
Date Posted: 09 June 2009 at 12:40pm
@ Rog I have left a few hints about a few things I have been apart of - but I'd rather leave the mouth on a stick to people like Mr MagicBox and the like - those who know me on here know me, those who don't well up to them  ------------- Don't worry F$cked up bigger gigs than this one........... |
Posted By: james folkes
Date Posted: 09 June 2009 at 3:05pm
aaahhh-hha-ha-ha-ha!
would you like cream or custard with your humble pie?
james. ------------- mardy hippy. |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 09 June 2009 at 3:10pm
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And i think the comeback was a little lame by all accounts.... ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: nomis
Date Posted: 09 June 2009 at 6:34pm
| its about the production too.extreme bass music designed for soundsytems is not the same as amy crackhouse at glastonbury.if you listen to mungos hifi prods for example,you will often hear the growling lev is on about,and even sounds similar to the voice coil hitting the backplate during the bassline.ok,this is in the production only,but it can make it hard to know whats really going on with yer bins.call me paranoid ,but im sure some producers enjoy giving the soundman kittens when the drop comes in! |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 10 June 2009 at 1:12am
Snap. Did the same with V18-1200. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: Calculus
Date Posted: 10 June 2009 at 2:03am
True, Like modern dub having reverb and delay on bass notes sometimes... (makes the sound of bass rattling something). It's to do with people hearing things in a session and trying to recreate it in a studio. Same reason why drum and bass tunes got faster and faster over the years. people played 1st tunes at +2% so people heard em and made them at that speed, and so on.. Slightly off topic sorry. |
Posted By: Quantum Sounds
Date Posted: 10 June 2009 at 2:41am
people play dnb in the red's, people hear it in the red's and jump up is born  |
Posted By: nineleaves
Date Posted: 14 June 2009 at 11:44am
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tangent, tangent... cant say im too convinced by p-audio's general (non oem) range of tweeters, they ..erm just dont feel nor sound like theyve been designed right. Amoungst other things, the last one i saw had the most disgustingly thin diaphragm ..cone breakup ..cough cough ! so, probably look elsewhere for those at least. |
Posted By: H...
Date Posted: 15 June 2009 at 6:32pm
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with this tangent its a shame the series 2 CD's p-audio's seem hard to get in the UK, a massive step up from the series 1 and the same price (well over here) ------------- Don't worry F$cked up bigger gigs than this one........... |
Posted By: nineleaves
Date Posted: 15 June 2009 at 7:21pm
| same story with other new revision drivers from them; tried getting hold of some of their new neo mids to play with & was told not to get hopes up about seeing them too soon. its all very well them being 60 odd quid.. but it comes to nothing if you cant get hold of them ;) :) |