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Amplifier meet

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Topic: Amplifier meet
Posted By: tallmike
Subject: Amplifier meet
Date Posted: 17 August 2009 at 2:54pm
OK Guys
Looks like a good idea to get together and all have a look at what's on offer in the amp world.
 
We can meet at my warehouse in Ripley, Surrey (postcode GU23 6HS) where we can make noise.
I'll have lots of different types of speakers to try, but of course if anyone's got any they want to play with, bring 'em down. Only thing is, I don't really need anyone turning up with a load more subs as we will run out of space. There will be at least 8 Quake subs in stock here so that should suffice, and we'll be able to max out any amplifier that we bring.
 
I won't bother compiling a list of amps that we'll have to play with - it's a question of 'run what ya brung'!!
 
I would strees that this is going to be a friendly meet, with the no-so-hidden agenda on my part of getting to say hello to a few forumites.
 
I'd like people to bring their favourite CDs / iPods / Laptops to play!
 
I think the only test gear here will be ears, Smaart and a dB meter - it all gets a bit anal after that.
 
Ideally could all amps be the type that run to 2ohm - then we can AB test properly.
 
Date I'm thinking of is wednesday 2nd September. Is that OK with everyone?
 
I need people to reply to this thread with whether they can make it or not, and what their favourite type of biscuit is.
 
All the best chaps,
 
Mike
 
 [edit : test gear!]
 



Replies:
Posted By: SamV
Date Posted: 17 August 2009 at 5:59pm
What a great idea :) Sadly I have nowt to contribute and don't drive and it's in the middle of nowhere :(


Posted By: Safetyman
Date Posted: 17 August 2009 at 6:15pm
The 2 ohm running will count out most XP 5000's as they only go to 4 ohm, I believe.

Could you not set-up 2 ohm and 4 ohm rigs for a greater variety of amps to test ? Just a thought, and also what cables are you using for 2ohm ( 2x 4mm or 2x 6mm ?)

Cheers


Posted By: djshaney
Date Posted: 17 August 2009 at 6:19pm
id love to come but i have nowt decent to contribute and im only 15 so no transport... :(
 
sounds fun though. wish it was tht easy to find a place to make some noise, without mass complaints...


Posted By: ceharden
Date Posted: 17 August 2009 at 6:23pm
Have put it in my diary, been meaning to pop up and see you for some time.  Might throw some other random interesting items in the van, in case anyone wants to look/listen.

I'm easy on tea/coffee/biscuits as long as there is some!


Posted By: trebor
Date Posted: 17 August 2009 at 6:26pm
Hi, I'm free on that date and can bring XP5000s if required. What are the approx start and finish times?


Posted By: tallmike
Date Posted: 17 August 2009 at 6:29pm
Start late morning - let's say 11am. Finish whenever we get bored? There is a pub up the road that also does decent food!
 
Mike


Posted By: tallmike
Date Posted: 17 August 2009 at 6:38pm

Just want to make it clear that you don't have to bring anything if you're coming - just a smile will do..



Posted By: tallmike
Date Posted: 17 August 2009 at 6:39pm
Originally posted by Safetyman Safetyman wrote:

The 2 ohm running will count out most XP 5000's as they only go to 4 ohm, I believe.

Could you not set-up 2 ohm and 4 ohm rigs for a greater variety of amps to test ? Just a thought, and also what cables are you using for 2ohm ( 2x 4mm or 2x 6mm ?)

Cheers
If anyone's got the 2 ohm XP5000s, that would make a fairer test.
 
6mm cable I guess (there's quite a choice here...)
 
Mike


Posted By: Ryan94
Date Posted: 17 August 2009 at 6:43pm
would love to come but im on holiday. Unhappy and i cant drive as not old enough anyway. but would love to meet up with you guys in the future if something like this happens again. Smile


Posted By: tallmike
Date Posted: 17 August 2009 at 6:45pm

I'm sure it will - the main objective is to actually organise one that gets off the ground..!!!



Posted By: ceharden
Date Posted: 17 August 2009 at 6:57pm
I'm afraid the only amp I have which is big enough to be slightly interesting is a Crest 8001 but if I ask my mates nicely I could get Camco's and Lab Gruppens if you don't have any already.


Posted By: highlyunlikely
Date Posted: 17 August 2009 at 7:09pm
hello not many people on here know me .May be able to bring some ffa 8 down .


Posted By: vectif
Date Posted: 17 August 2009 at 7:45pm
I don't think I will be able to make it but can I make a worthwhile suggestion... I appreciate that the "big boys toys" amp arena seems to be focused on the bass but what about tops... I think that there would be far more gained in ideally running a consistent set of bins and tops and trying these amps at both tasks.

If you look at Martin Audios current re-badged amp line-up, they deliberately sell two different sets of amps... Ones for driving bass and ones for driving tops.

The other rather interesting test as I have found out recently is whether you can get a sub to deliver what its recommended frequency range is. For example I tested an newly purchased amp this last weekend that was able to drive a Gsub up to near its recommended frequency range of 180hz and it sounded amazing. On the other hand the amp I used to use would be ok upto 80hz but much above that the sound and control of the Gsub turned to mush.

Anyway I look forward to hearing of some outcomes from this get together...

If nothing else I am sre you will all have fun!





Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 17 August 2009 at 7:46pm
Most of us are working during the week, wouldn't a Saturday be better?

Does anyone have an Xp5000 2ohm version in London?

I want to do a small mini test with XP5 vs 5000VZ, with 2x scoops per channel; 1850s  & Turbomax 1500.




-------------
"Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy".


Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 17 August 2009 at 8:37pm
Originally posted by tallmike tallmike wrote:

Date I'm thinking of is wednesday 2nd September. Is that OK with everyone?
 
People may still be mashed up from Notting Hill carnival w/end Mike!
 


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**Heavy Weight-Line**
A home without books is like a body with no soul.


Posted By: jonminns
Date Posted: 17 August 2009 at 8:43pm
I'd like to be there, to hear a pile of 8 quakes firstly but mainly to put all the claims in the real world and see what everything's made of

150 miles from me but hopefully will be a good day

Should have my xp5000 returned by then too


Posted By: Sinfinity
Date Posted: 17 August 2009 at 9:01pm
I go away to eat some food and all this happens in a hurry. Smile

Wednesday is already in diary. Thanks for holding the meet Mike.

Would you mind the presence of some anal types ?

I love to hear lots of noise as much as the next man / woman / child / speakerplanner or beetle called Derek.

I am sure that we can not listen to all of the amps at the same time. Knowing how hard it is to get everybody together I suggest that we make it a dual purpose meet, as originally suggested.

Hearing things is important, I could not agree more. However, I have read thread here and elsewhere that suggest some amps sound louder because of distortion ???
I was over the moon to see that we were finally going to sort this amp thing out for once and for all. Both sound testing and putting the amps that are not running speakers on a test bench with a set of multi meters, scopes and a dummy load sounds like a great idea.
I understand that I do not have the budget for beautiful products like the FFA or MC2, but would love to see with my own eyes the differences between these high end amps and the likes of the matrix. I may not be able to interpret all of the results myself ( still learning ) but will be bringing high end digital SLR's and HiDef canon camcorders to record waveforms etc.

I am sure that the more knowledgeable people frequenting this forum will be able to interpret the results for us, even if they can not make it to the meet.

Win win solution for everyone involved. Lots of kit, many faces put to names and a proper, analitycal review of each of the amps. Whilst we can try and describe the differences in sound from one amp to the next to the unfortunate members who can't make the meet, there is no hiding from scope captures that will look the same to everybody.

I'm hoping to 'see' why the lab gruppens / mc2 / crown's of this world cost that much more than the likes of the matrix, before I consider upgrading the xp5000's.

I'm sure that this will present no problems because the test gear and person to operate it has already been promised, the only thing we need from Mike's venue is one bench, a power supply and some willing amp candidates.

I would even go so far to say I am willing to miss out on the grub for the sake of getting the data.

So, fellow speaker planners, if you would like me to miss out on the good food at the pub ( and just munch through Mikes' biscuits ) in the name of science let me know.

Mike, may we have that one bench please ?

Cheers
Matt

edit: speeeling



-------------
Matt at ukamp dot co dot uk


Posted By: ceharden
Date Posted: 17 August 2009 at 9:12pm
How much dummy load have you got available?  We need enough to be able the amps continuously for proper torture testing.  Realistically that means a dummy load capable of handing 3kW @ 2R.

I can do 1200W @ 4R and 1200W @ 2R loads (with a fairly healthy peak load capacity), maybe more with some forced cooling. 


Posted By: snalprekaeps
Date Posted: 17 August 2009 at 9:13pm
i love the idea of the xp5000 but only becuase it would make a great back up amp for the money. you cant place lab gruppen mc2 crown ffa camco and crest etc on the same shelf as these are the types of amps very big touring companys use day in and day out and if the xp5000 could match these they would already be buying them for sure. i hope that these tests are done with ears not just laptops. just look at d&b and your see my point doesn't matter how it works or what the plots say it sound out of this world.

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The users formerly known as Timmy Bedpoke, his Dad, BP Sound..... and their 2 imaginary friends in the world


Posted By: jonminns
Date Posted: 17 August 2009 at 9:22pm
I'd like to be there, to hear a pile of 8 quakes firstly but mainly to put all the claims in the real world and see what everything's made of

150 miles from me but hopefully will be a good day

Should have my xp5000 returned by then too


Posted By: Safetyman
Date Posted: 17 August 2009 at 9:34pm
I have an XP 5000/2 ohm version, but it does not yet have the uprated fans. I have some holiday booked the following week, so may not be able to take anything the week before.....

Sounds like a great idea to have an amp shootout, assuming it has not been done before ?

Cheers 


Posted By: trebor
Date Posted: 17 August 2009 at 9:41pm
I have two different versions of the XP5000, I will double check with Andy whether the newer one is latest or if there are further upgrades available. And I might even make it to his workshop between now and then, if he can squeeze me in


Posted By: tallmike
Date Posted: 17 August 2009 at 11:38pm
Hi Chaps,
 
I hope that wednesday is OK with people - Saturdays are nigh on impossible and there's hardly ever any kit around to use.
 
I don't have anything in the way of testing gear - that's why I wanted to just have a meet, say hello to people and listen to some amps, and other audio gear. It's not all about the bass - that's the other thing. I just thought it'd be a good idea for us all to compare!
 
As far as dummy load testing is concerned, I don't think anyone has one large enough - and it always seems to add a negative tone to the event. Let's just listen with our ears?
 
I personally would like to dispel the 'class D sounds rubbish' rumour, which doesn't need silly bass or dummy loads!
 
Any thoughts?
 
Mike


Posted By: Joe Average
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 12:41am
Providing the pub down the road (which evidently sells solids too) allows registered alchoholics in, I am definately up for it. I understand that Wednesday has a 'y' in it so it is defiantely a drinky day. Would be good to have a subjective listening test, so long as some of the 'Big' boys are fully represented. Would be lovely to see the underdog win the day (You all know who).
Have just got off the phone to another member, who has agreed to transport me to your shoot-out.
Can't wait.
If I have to crawl there, I will attend.


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http://www.mrfatbastard.com - http://www.mrfatbastard.com


Posted By: tallmike
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 8:57am

That's great news Boris!

Our local pub will let anyone in... they let Tim Bespoke in!!

Mike


Posted By: ceharden
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 9:04am
One of the reasons I'd be interested to do some bench testing is to try and match up what our ears tell us and what the scope say.  ie WHY does that amp sound different?

However I'm not that bothered.

How about a compromise, we could set the scope up to monitor the output of the amps while running into the drivers?  That way we could measure the real peak power going into the cabs?



Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 9:05am
im there with bells on ( and a pl380 ) if it can be made the following wednesday? ( 9th)


Posted By: tallmike
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 9:11am
Hi Chris,
 
Would love to have you here - PL380 is a must have as well!
 
Not sure about changing the date though - will you still be in Oz?
 
Mike


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 9:15am
im back just before, but have got a job out that day ( as well as jet lag no doubt...)
 
no bother if the arranged date stands, i can hardly ask everybody else to move their arrangements, but it would be really good to see a few faces again, and really hear those FFA's do their thing
skiing tomorrow!!! yipeeeee


Posted By: Tony Wilkes
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 10:24am
To be honest if you do not do the technical measurements I do not think that the tests have much validity. For instance you may decide that amp A sounds louder and is "fatter" than amp B, but why? Is it because it is giving out more power or because of subtle distortions etc.

Amp C may also be superb at thumping out 100v at 40hz into 2 ohms all day but sounds like a hornets nest when driving comps etc. Why would this be? (and yes I have a well known amp in mind).

Without technical tests IMHO all you will have is a male bonding session and not much else, although from the sound (sic) of it the coffee should be good.

Tony


Posted By: snalprekaeps
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 10:45am
when you demo a system your looking to buy do you take measurement kit with you or your ears ? again i refer to d&b no plots no bullsh*t just clever amps and speakers that makes you believe it sounds good and who cares anyway. i see your profile picture looks like a home set-up tony wilkes did you set it up using your ears by any chance ? i only wish i could make it down for this but as long as pictures and results are posted in the right way i dont mind. i am also hoping the under dog will win here. lets see.

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The users formerly known as Timmy Bedpoke, his Dad, BP Sound..... and their 2 imaginary friends in the world


Posted By: Ben_Lawrance
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 10:45am
Count me in Mike.


Posted By: tallmike
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 10:50am
HI Tony,
 
Totally understand where you're coming from - so I think I'll decide on some sort of test that has technical validity. Will keep you posted.
 
I think that one issue can be that people are massively into numbers without listening - I wanted this to be about all getting the amps in one place, listening, and maybe doing some sort of tests.
 
I'll speak to a few people and ascertain a testing element to it - totally understand why that's important to people.
 
Cheers
 
Mike


Posted By: Tony Wilkes
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 10:51am
Originally posted by snalprekaeps snalprekaeps wrote:

when you demo a system your looking to buy do you take measurement kit with you or your ears ? again i refer to d&b no plots no bullsh*t just clever amps and speakers that makes you believe it sounds good and who cares anyway. i see your profile picture looks like a home set-up tony wilkes did you set it up using your ears by any chance ? i only wish i could make it down for this but as long as pictures and results are posted in the right way i dont mind. i am also hoping the under dog will win here. lets see.


"and who cares anyway" I think sums up your last post!!!

Tony


Posted By: Tony Wilkes
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 10:54am
Originally posted by tallmike tallmike wrote:

HI Tony,
 
Totally understand where you're coming from - so I think I'll decide on some sort of test that has technical validity. Will keep you posted.
 
Cheers
 
Mike


Mike, OK thank you.

Tony


Posted By: chunkydj
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 11:59am
Mike, I would like to attend aswell and as I do not own kit worthy enough to even lean against the quakes, I shall bring a packet of quake equivalent biscuits: CHOCOLATE HOBNOBS! Thumbs Up

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http://www.maxmarcusevents.co.uk" rel="nofollow - http://www.maxmarcusevents.co.uk


Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 12:58pm
Originally posted by Tony Wilkes Tony Wilkes wrote:

To be honest if you do not do the technical measurements I do not think that the tests have much validity. For instance you may decide that amp A sounds louder and is "fatter" than amp B, but why? Is it because it is giving out more power or because of subtle distortions etc.


I do understand the need for some formal measuring, to ascertain/confirm power output and THD, but I typically purchase an amp based on how well it performs in gig situations.

After numerous occasions of finding quality amps of lower specified power output, comprehensively butt kick amps of higher specs on sub, my regard for specifications is steadily decreasing.

Widely accepted indicator, is how well does a sub amp drive 2x 1850s per channel, or 2x in 4 ohm bridge.

Further recently found acid test, is can an amp drive 3x turbomaxes per channel without going bang.

I know the macrotech 5000VZ/Inf 8mk2/UA6 can do this, but would be suprised if the XP5000 2 ohm version survives it.



-------------
"Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy".


Posted By: darkmatter
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 2:48pm
Completely agree Tony but formal testing will be almost impossible in that situation. I think Mike's wise to make it a social first and foremost. Plus I can understand you being non-specific when you say 'Amp C sound like a hornet's nest when driving comps, and yes I do have an amp in mind' and I guess you'll be happy to discuss that sort of thing openly when it's not going down in writing on the forum.

I think even max power before 0.1% THD or 1% THD tests are sometimes a bit uninformative personally. If one amp produces more 2nd harmonic it might show higher THD but still sound nice, while another amp putting out more third harmonic might sound worse but with a lower measuerd THD. Think you have to be very very anal to truly understand what's going on!


Posted By: tallmike
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 2:49pm
Chunky..... don't forget we need an extra fridge for the biscuits!
Ray ... If you have any 1850s or Turbomaxes, bring 'em down! Would love to hear these.
 
Mike


Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 3:07pm
Originally posted by tallmike tallmike wrote:

Chunky..... don't forget we need an extra fridge for the biscuits!
Ray ... If you have any 1850s or Turbomaxes, bring 'em down! Would love to hear these.
 
Mike


Would be great to come down, but few people on here would'nt agree with my opinions on testing.

So I'll carry out mini comparison of Matrix XP5000 vs MA5000VZ. May even include CA18 in that test, if venue has 16/32A. Wink

In all honesty, my purpose here is to find which amp I prefer the sound of thru 4x 18s. Not to confirm THD or output power.


-------------
"Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy".


Posted By: paulus
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 3:12pm
i could bring 2 turbomax ASSscoops in needed (1200is)

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TRENDSETTER SOUND SYSTEM


Posted By: chunkydj
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 3:50pm
Originally posted by tallmike tallmike wrote:

Chunky..... don't forget we need an extra fridge for the biscuits!
 
Mike

Shall I bring the fridge?
Let me talk to mr bedpoke LOL


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http://www.maxmarcusevents.co.uk" rel="nofollow - http://www.maxmarcusevents.co.uk


Posted By: tallmike
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 3:59pm
Originally posted by levyte357 levyte357 wrote:

Originally posted by tallmike tallmike wrote:

Chunky..... don't forget we need an extra fridge for the biscuits!
Ray ... If you have any 1850s or Turbomaxes, bring 'em down! Would love to hear these.
 
Mike


Would be great to come down, but few people on here would'nt agree with my opinions on testing.

So I'll carry out mini comparison of Matrix XP5000 vs MA5000VZ. May even include CA18 in that test, if venue has 16/32A. Wink

In all honesty, my purpose here is to find which amp I prefer the sound of thru 4x 18s. Not to confirm THD or output power.
Awesome, that's what we like.
 
I'll have 32a - although I can't see how it would sound different attached to a different supply. If the amp tried to take too much out of a 13a supply,  the fuse would blow!
 
Looks like we have some turbomaxes which is great.
 
The 'Venue' is my 1000sq ft warehouse... but we've got permission to make lots of noise!
 Should be cosy!
 
Mike
 


Posted By: tallmike
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 4:00pm
Originally posted by chunkydj chunkydj wrote:

Originally posted by tallmike tallmike wrote:

Chunky..... don't forget we need an extra fridge for the biscuits!
 
Mike

Shall I bring the fridge?
Let me talk to mr bedpoke LOL
Already agreed - then everyone can 'experience' the raw power of the TAS-Sub!!
 
 


Posted By: chunkydj
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 4:04pm
Originally posted by tallmike tallmike wrote:

Originally posted by chunkydj chunkydj wrote:

Originally posted by tallmike tallmike wrote:

Chunky..... don't forget we need an extra fridge for the biscuits!
 
Mike

Shall I bring the fridge?
Let me talk to mr bedpoke LOL
Already agreed - then everyone can 'experience' the raw power of the TAS-Sub!!
 
 

Ok coolio!
I will start trying to load in into the van! its hard when the bloody thing is taller than me!



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http://www.maxmarcusevents.co.uk" rel="nofollow - http://www.maxmarcusevents.co.uk


Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 4:11pm
Originally posted by tallmike tallmike wrote:

Awesome, that's what we like.
 
I'll have 32a - although I can't see how it would sound different attached to a different supply. If the amp tried to take too much out of a 13a supply,  the fuse would blow!
 
Looks like we have some turbomaxes which is great.
 


Sorry Mike, I meant I'll be doing my own little mini test in London... If someone in London has the Xp5000, as I dont think Marvin has any.




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"Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy".


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 4:34pm
Originally posted by chunkydj chunkydj wrote:


Originally posted by tallmike tallmike wrote:

Originally posted by chunkydj chunkydj wrote:

Originally posted by tallmike tallmike wrote:

Chunky..... don't forget we need an extra fridge for the biscuits!
 

Mike


Shall I bring the fridge?

Let me talk to mr bedpoke LOL


Already agreed - then everyone can 'experience' the raw power of the TAS-Sub!!
 

 

Ok coolio!
I will start trying to load in into the van! its hard when the bloody thing is taller than me!
<span ="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; font-size: 10px; line-height: normal; color: rgb102, 102, 102; white-space: pre; "></span>


Are you bring some portable corners or a shipping container too?



Sorry, couldn't resist


Posted By: snalprekaeps
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 4:41pm

Stern Smile now that is a big bass bin. how many do you have chunkydj ? how many drivers in it ?



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The users formerly known as Timmy Bedpoke, his Dad, BP Sound..... and their 2 imaginary friends in the world


Posted By: Sinfinity
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 4:44pm
Originally posted by snalprekaeps snalprekaeps wrote:

Stern Smile now that is a big bass bin. how many do you have chunkydj ? how many drivers in it ?



Have a search for the "TAS SUB". Lots of talk about it a few months ago. It certainly is a large lump.


-------------
Matt at ukamp dot co dot uk


Posted By: chunkydj
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 4:45pm

Originally posted by snalprekaeps snalprekaeps wrote:

Stern Smile now that is a big bass bin. how many do you have chunkydj ? how many drivers in it ?


Now that would be telling, wouldnt it LOL

I thought it was fairly obvious how many drivers this contained...?


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http://www.maxmarcusevents.co.uk" rel="nofollow - http://www.maxmarcusevents.co.uk


Posted By: SamV
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 5:19pm
Pfft you call yourself chunky. 


Posted By: snalprekaeps
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 5:22pm
35 pages !!!!!!! not even going to try and read all that. when i looked up bespokes profile his last post was him saying he was leaving Confused does anybody know if he still makes tas sub ? did anybody on here apart from chunkydj buy them ? was he part of matrix by any chance ? as it would seem so in some of his posts

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The users formerly known as Timmy Bedpoke, his Dad, BP Sound..... and their 2 imaginary friends in the world


Posted By: Jake_Fielder
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 5:24pm
Nineleaves designed it i believe, also Bespoke is called True audio pictures now i think


Posted By: chunkydj
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 5:51pm
Originally posted by SamV SamV wrote:

Pfft you call yourself chunky. 

LOL i used to be twice that size, the fat went away... the name didnt LOL


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http://www.maxmarcusevents.co.uk" rel="nofollow - http://www.maxmarcusevents.co.uk


Posted By: tallmike
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 6:06pm
Tim Bedpoke calls you super sexy DJ.... anyway... back on topic!
As a first step to 'test gear'...
 
Chris (ceharden) can you bring an ocilliscope and/or a calibrated dB Meter?
 
Mike
 


Posted By: ceharden
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 6:35pm
No probs, will steal the scope off my bench, nothing special but it'll do the job.  I don't have a dB meter I'm afraid.

I'll see what I can rustle up in terms of a dummy load.  Will only be able to do single channel testing but if nothing else, it's useful to know what voltage swing the amps can produce rather than relying on their power rating.  Amps like the Crests can actually produce much more voltage swing and thus peak power output than their power rating suggests.

I'll also try to knock up a cable to allow measurements of what's actually going into the cab when they hit the peak lights etc.

I should be able to bring a laptop with measurement software but probably best if someone else does in case mine decides to play up!




Posted By: Ben_Lawrance
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 6:38pm
I'll bring Smaart and a measurement mic if you like?


Posted By: tallmike
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 6:44pm
Sounds good to me!
 
I'll have Smaart running and I'll try to get hold of a B&K 4007 for the day - to measure cabs acoustically.  This means, if you want to bring your cabs down to be measured for magnitude / phase response - then why not. There will be some 448s for processing here.
 
Mike


Posted By: tallmike
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 6:45pm
unless you've got a posh measurement mic Ben?
 
 


Posted By: Ben_Lawrance
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 6:47pm
Only the DBX jobbie.


Posted By: tallmike
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 6:49pm
that's posher than our usual one, believe me!
 
bring it anyway - you never know. The 4007 is the Meyer Sim mic so I guess it's the one - a posh audio interface would be good though! Our Edirol UA-25s aren't exactly Focusrite Reds!
 
Mike


Posted By: Ben_Lawrance
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 6:55pm
My M-Audio box stays in the case, so that will come as well.


Posted By: snalprekaeps
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 6:57pm

will you be ploting the tas sub bin becuase there is some very funny plots on other pages on here. is bespoke part of matrix ?  



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The users formerly known as Timmy Bedpoke, his Dad, BP Sound..... and their 2 imaginary friends in the world


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 7:10pm
Rog has a proper SPL meter up for sale.


Posted By: Joe Average
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 8:42pm
I have a couple of SPL meters, one of the Phonics and another dedicated meter, will troll them along and a scope if needed.

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http://www.mrfatbastard.com - http://www.mrfatbastard.com


Posted By: ceharden
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 9:30pm
What's your scope like?  I've only got a basic 20MHz two channel Hameg (typical school unit).


Posted By: Joe Average
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 9:36pm
Pretty similar, quite basic 20meg dual, will try and dig it out tomorrow, give a bit more info.

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http://www.mrfatbastard.com - http://www.mrfatbastard.com


Posted By: Sinfinity
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 9:41pm
Originally posted by snalprekaeps snalprekaeps wrote:

will you be ploting the tas sub bin becuase there is some very funny plots on other pages on here. is bespoke part of matrix ?  



Hi snaltrekaeps

Bespoke ( Tim ) is not part of Matrix.

Matrix consists of Andy Amp only. supported by quite a few fans who think his product are good.

Cheers
Matt


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Matt at ukamp dot co dot uk


Posted By: snalprekaeps
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 10:34pm

thanks sinfinty for clearing that up guess i read it wrong.



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The users formerly known as Timmy Bedpoke, his Dad, BP Sound..... and their 2 imaginary friends in the world


Posted By: ceharden
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 10:39pm
Mike,  do you have a distro with an ammeter on it?  I do but it's only a basic analogue job.


Posted By: SamV
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 11:02pm
I have a Kikusui 100mhz Dual Beam Oscilloscope + a handful of probes.



Anyone going past Limehouse? Ideally with a spare seat? If so, I could also bring a Matrix UKP2100 Lightweight if it's any use?


Posted By: Kaizen
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 11:05pm
Unfortunately I'm unable to attend this event but was thinking - sometimes the most revealing and surprising test of equipment is the blindfold test. It's also a happy medium between the hardcore beard stroking measurement and calculation approach, and the more random plug 'em in and see how they sound test.

I think this link - http://www.matrixhifi.com/ENG_contenedor_ppec.htm - http://www.matrixhifi.com/ENG_contenedor_ppec.htm , that was posted on here recently is a brilliant example of how just how significant an effect knowing what amp you're listening to, and the unavoidable preconcieved notions we all have of each amp, has on the sound we hear. Quickly switching between each amp, with a repetitive bassline, without the test group knowing which one is being used, would surely produce some interesting results once averaged out across the group?

Just a thought.





Posted By: DjLeco
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 11:06pm

Come on, let's see the amp's on bench test!

Put first on speakers and then  on dummy load too!

Use an oscilloscope on outputs to see the form of sin wave output, and a true rms voltmeter to see the output swing voltage too!!!!

The dummy load(2 ohms resistor) will be the hardest test!
 
Let the best to WIN!
 
Example here:
 
 
http://www.forum.poweraudio.ro/viewtopic.php?t=5070 - http://www.forum.poweraudio.ro/viewtopic.php?t=5070
 


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I'm A Stupid SMART Romanian...


Posted By: rich_gale
Date Posted: 18 August 2009 at 11:14pm
 

is this gonna be making an appearance?  if so, id really like to come and hear it in action..
 
also, would be nice to hear some mid/high amp comparisons.  what mid/top cabs will be available for testing the non bass performance?  or will the event be focusing on the LF? :)


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REFLEX ALL THE WAY.... (however, im playing with horns again...) That ok Mister Valiant? :)


Posted By: tallmike
Date Posted: 19 August 2009 at 9:41am
the TAB Sub will be there.... for a giggle.
 
We'll have at least EMS-152 tops - This test is about sound quality too...
 
Chris, none of the distros have ammeters, so by all means bring one!
 
Mike


Posted By: ceharden
Date Posted: 19 August 2009 at 9:46am
Will put it in, just need to reclaim my 32A->63A jumper cable from the last person to hire it.....

I'll throw in some cabs too, why not!  Be interested to compare my mid-tops to the EMS ones.


Posted By: tallmike
Date Posted: 19 August 2009 at 9:54am
Of course - all top cabs welcome!!
 
M


Posted By: tallmike
Date Posted: 19 August 2009 at 9:59am
Just bring the distro - got all the adaptors!
 
Mike


Posted By: Sinfinity
Date Posted: 19 August 2009 at 10:07am
Can bring my adapted 3 x 16amp distro with ammeter and voltmeters because it sits in the bottom of the rack anyway.

Will also bring my pair of xtro's if anyone wants a listen ?


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Matt at ukamp dot co dot uk


Posted By: Joe Average
Date Posted: 19 August 2009 at 10:20am
Originally posted by Sinfinity Sinfinity wrote:

Can bring my adapted 3 x 16amp distro with ammeter and voltmeters because it sits in the bottom of the rack anyway.

Will also bring my pair of xtro's if anyone wants a listen ?
 
Do you want me to make up 3 x Powercon to 16A cee-form? Yours are all 13A plugs if I remember correctly.


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http://www.mrfatbastard.com - http://www.mrfatbastard.com


Posted By: tallmike
Date Posted: 19 August 2009 at 10:37am

We've got loads of powercon / iec / 16a / 32a / 63a so no need for that kind of stuff mate!

If someone wants to bring an ammeter / voltmeter distro, that's cool, it just needs to be at least 32a.
 
Mike


Posted By: Joe Average
Date Posted: 19 August 2009 at 10:40am
What power supply have you got ? Do you have 63A CeeForm (single phase), if so, I have a distro that should do the job fineski.

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http://www.mrfatbastard.com - http://www.mrfatbastard.com


Posted By: tallmike
Date Posted: 19 August 2009 at 11:57am
Hi Joe - just 32a single I'm afraid.
 
If your 63a one has meters in in, by all means bring it and we can plumb it in.
 
Mike


Posted By: Joe Average
Date Posted: 19 August 2009 at 2:37pm
No worries, I will make up a 32/63 converter.

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http://www.mrfatbastard.com - http://www.mrfatbastard.com


Posted By: Sinfinity
Date Posted: 19 August 2009 at 2:43pm
Thanks for hosting this Mike, going to be good to finally put a few more faces to names and play with nice kit.

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Matt at ukamp dot co dot uk


Posted By: boycey
Date Posted: 19 August 2009 at 3:18pm
reckon i'll be up for this- only 2.4 miles from clandon station if google maps is right, fine for me bike

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the only thing more dangerous than a person who doesn't give a f**k is a person who gives a sh*t.


Posted By: nineleaves
Date Posted: 19 August 2009 at 10:10pm
Originally posted by chunkydj chunkydj wrote:


Ok coolio!
I will start trying to load in into the van! its hard when the bloody thing is taller than me!



be sure to check it has at least a Turbomax 1200/1500/1800 driver in it (1200 was used in first tests, with original intent to finish sorting out a custom driver assembly); otherwise it wont work properly.
im aware that the reason two aren't floating around, is Tim got impatient & chainsawed the other one when he fleeced them both to flog the drivers. So have a peek under the hatch to be sure ;)


Posted By: chunkydj
Date Posted: 20 August 2009 at 11:25am
Originally posted by nineleaves nineleaves wrote:

 

be sure to check it has at least a Turbomax 1200/1500/1800 driver in it (1200 was used in first tests, with original intent to finish sorting out a custom driver assembly); otherwise it wont work properly.
im aware that the reason two aren't floating around, is Tim got impatient & chainsawed the other one when he fleeced them both to flog the drivers. So have a peek under the hatch to be sure ;)

Nineleaves. let me make the following very clear:
Tim gave me this cab for free to have a play with*. When he gave it to me, he made it very clear that under to circumstance was I to take measurements, or to sell it on. 
Also, he said if I got sick of it/bored then I was to hand it back over to him. No one else.


*all I paid for is a TM1800. However the driver will be elsewhere on the week of the amp test date, so does anyone have a spare turbomax xx00?*



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http://www.maxmarcusevents.co.uk" rel="nofollow - http://www.maxmarcusevents.co.uk


Posted By: Joe Average
Date Posted: 20 August 2009 at 7:30pm
In reply to some of the sort of apathetic, excuse, snarly comments that have been raised in this post;
I do not have a driving license, although old enough, probably to drunk to drive anyway.
I am permanently on holiday, in my head.
I have no compunction to put names to faces, personaly I would rather be someone else anyway.
I realy couldn't give a toss about the internal workings of a TAS sub, even if it is a better kept secret than the recipe for Coca-Cola.
Despite all my best efforts to remain as apathetic as ever, during the fleeting moments of sobriety that are becoming as rare as bolloks on a cow, I will still make it.
My point being, someone is always going to come up with some excuse for not attending an event like this, also there is always going to be someone else who uses the whole idea to bang a drum and start some whinging gripe about somthing. In my opinion, this sort of thing should be supported by all parties concerned, no petty gripes about testing procedure or any other such nonsense.
To coin a phrase, 'Let's play it by ear' and see what happens, without all the cobblers. Thumbs Up
 


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http://www.mrfatbastard.com - http://www.mrfatbastard.com


Posted By: Joe Average
Date Posted: 23 August 2009 at 8:53pm
Heres somthing I made earlier. Note the little widget on the left hand side, this displays; voltage, current draw and also a Kwh figure. This means that, not only can we sort out the least efficient amp of the bunch, also, with a bit of rudimentary maths, can calculate how much in cash, it costs to run said amp.
I shal be bringing this along as well as a breakout box with just about every connector I can think of so there are no excuses for just waving somthing under everyones nose and not testing it with the others.
Have lots, looking forward to it.
Ooops, I forgot to place the image.Embarrassed


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http://www.mrfatbastard.com - http://www.mrfatbastard.com


Posted By: jonny4288
Date Posted: 23 August 2009 at 9:20pm

Thumbs Up ideal piece of kit



Posted By: andyamp
Date Posted: 23 August 2009 at 9:26pm
what current can it measure?

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a wise man changes his mind a fool does not.
http://www.matrixamplification.com/ - http://www.matrixamplification.com/


Posted By: Joe Average
Date Posted: 23 August 2009 at 9:29pm
0-120A but, I understand we only have a 32A supply.

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http://www.mrfatbastard.com - http://www.mrfatbastard.com


Posted By: andyamp
Date Posted: 23 August 2009 at 9:33pm
ok thanks

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a wise man changes his mind a fool does not.
http://www.matrixamplification.com/ - http://www.matrixamplification.com/


Posted By: QSS
Date Posted: 23 August 2009 at 11:29pm
Will there be any Powersoft K series be there?

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"Music is life"


Posted By: tallmike
Date Posted: 24 August 2009 at 12:35am

Should have a K-10 stashed somewhere!



Posted By: Rog
Date Posted: 24 August 2009 at 12:58am
I can bring an Infinite 8 V2 and 10Kw's of dummy load.
 
Or is this only open to the DIY community.


Posted By: tallmike
Date Posted: 24 August 2009 at 1:00am
It's open to anyone, Rog - I'm not exactly DIY!


Posted By: Rog
Date Posted: 24 August 2009 at 1:08am
Just read that Andy might be going too, so I'll leave the Infinite 8 V2 at home and just bring the test gear. I don't want to be accused of turning the meeting into a Void marketing event like I did at the mid top shootout that was held around 2 years ago.
 
I can also bring a highly accurate SPL meter and some test tracks that will have most bins quaking in there boots.........



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