using a video projector as (indoor) laser
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Category: Other Chat
Forum Name: Lighting Talk
Forum Description: All your lampy, laser and 'other' special FX needs....
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=30145
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Topic: using a video projector as (indoor) laser
Posted By: foax
Subject: using a video projector as (indoor) laser
Date Posted: 30 August 2009 at 11:45pm
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hey there. you might take a look on that video. this guy made a program which uses a common videoprojector (we germans call that "beamer") as a light effect. the download will be available soon. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qp_W-72hX4&feature=channel |
Replies:
Posted By: Pav
Date Posted: 31 August 2009 at 8:28am
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Hi, do you know anymore about the software? i.e. when it will be available for download? Cheers |
Posted By: Pav
Date Posted: 31 August 2009 at 9:30am
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Found this not sure on cost. http://www.laserelectronicsltd.com/v3d.htm |
Posted By: VPAS
Date Posted: 31 August 2009 at 11:16am
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It sounds like a pretty good idea, especially from a health and safety point of view.
If you didnt notice, there is a demo of that software, not sure about the limitations of it though. Im guessing you would need a projector with a high contrast ratio to get the best effect and reduce light spill. DLP would be better suited then LCD id of thought ------------- n^2 modulo -P = number wang |
Posted By: SamV
Date Posted: 31 August 2009 at 5:18pm
| I used to use my projectors as lights when I were a teen :) being able to emulate lasers seems cool though. And I just got myself a 6k triple chip DLP :) |
Posted By: tekoffensive
Date Posted: 31 August 2009 at 7:08pm
| whats the program called and whens it out?? would be good cos our projectyors been kickin about unused for ages, |
Posted By: tomschute
Date Posted: 31 August 2009 at 7:51pm
6k - nice Seems a very effective, very interested in this. Might consider nocking up some animations - sure be easy enough in flash / premier to achieve this. I'll see what's going on over on VJ forums, might be something already about like this. Tom thinking about it you're gonna get some serious depth of field issues with this surely :/ ------------- Out to lunch... stableaudio@hotmail.co.uk www.stableaudio.co.uk Speaker Building Services |
SamV wrote:Posted By: Pav
Date Posted: 31 August 2009 at 8:20pm
| Biggest problem will be contrast ratio as projevting black will only be as good as the ambient light levels. Hence expensive projector installs are rear projected in a blacked out roo. Mind you some sort of rear pro rig may be an option. |
Posted By: Pav
Date Posted: 31 August 2009 at 8:21pm
| Follow my earlier link theres a package out now. |
Posted By: tomschute
Date Posted: 01 September 2009 at 10:45am
take a look at the demo reel - painful  found this: http://www.ljb2of3.net/lights/lasersim.php - http://www.ljb2of3.net/lights/lasersim.php ------------- Out to lunch... stableaudio@hotmail.co.uk www.stableaudio.co.uk Speaker Building Services |
Posted By: Pav
Date Posted: 01 September 2009 at 11:55am
| Excellent I'll take a look. Projectors are becoming cheaper and cheaper at much higher level lumen counts. |
Posted By: odc04r
Date Posted: 01 September 2009 at 12:00pm
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I had a look at the first program linked and it appears to be rather basic, not tried it with my projector yet but I wouldn't expect a lot. The second link appears much more promising, will have a play with it later this week and if it works well I might use it for a gig in a month or so's time. |
Posted By: tomschute
Date Posted: 01 September 2009 at 4:29pm
well i'll use it this weekend at a gig if it's any good - so there (in sarcastic voice)  I'll have a play tonight... ------------- Out to lunch... stableaudio@hotmail.co.uk www.stableaudio.co.uk Speaker Building Services |
Posted By: odc04r
Date Posted: 01 September 2009 at 6:46pm
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Haha, yeah I may well have a play tonight too. Pretty sure a desk will be required to get the best out of it unfortunately but could be fun anyway. Any excuse to fill the lounge with a bit of smoke! |
Posted By: Pav
Date Posted: 02 September 2009 at 6:26am
| Let us know how it goes! |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 02 September 2009 at 9:42am
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I'm not sure I understand the marketplace for these. For the price of a beamer big enough to make them look like lasers in a venue, you can just - get a laser! Sure, there are other effects these are capable of doing that lasers can't, but emulating something that is now fairly cheap to buy anyway is surely missing a trick. I remember a number of the laser emulators of years gone by and they all had a sort of market because gas heads were re-mortgage material - but no longer.... ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: odc04r
Date Posted: 02 September 2009 at 10:21am
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Well a couple of plus points are no H&S issues, a huge range of colours, and more effects like you say. Plus the old why not factor which is ever present, I think of them as just another lighting effect with a difference rather then a laser. Didn't get round to testing it in the end last night, will try again perhaps later. |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 02 September 2009 at 12:25pm
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Just because there isn't legislation against high power beamers in peoples eyes, doesn't mean they may not present a health risk. If they are to acvhieve the same effect as a laser, they'll need to be putting out similar amounts of energy.
As we all know, a 400w UV cannon can be quite dangerous when pointing peoples eyes, but how often do you see anyone really caring about it when they are? ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: odc04r
Date Posted: 02 September 2009 at 3:59pm
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There is no way a projector could ever provide the same H&S risks as a laser, I think we all know this. If you work out the irradiance of the output over a viewing distance of a few metres it would be tiny. I wouldn't use one trying to get a similar effect as a laser, just a different effect out of a projector with colour options that you would need many thousands of pounds of laser to achieve. Better off worrying about it dropping on your head after being badly secured. |
Posted By: jamwa
Date Posted: 02 September 2009 at 5:26pm
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there will be soon -
1. I have been installing projectors over the summer into schools and there is a new Becta legislation which is why I am fitting up the Hitachi Mirrored units ( so the little darlings) dont get the light in there eyes. which will soon be a common place with projection all over.
2. I do corporate work for a couple of american investment banks and they will not allow front projection in fear of the light effecting the presenters eyes...
a few years time you will be in a field in the dark with an ipod having a festival streamed to you on a 3" screen with your headphones on in the dark!!!!
------------- Sound, Light, Projection, Display, Cameras and production support |
Posted By: Jake_Fielder
Date Posted: 02 September 2009 at 6:49pm
Thats a pretty cool idea,
Is "this guy" you, by any chance?
 How well would that work in a room with other light effects, as in a room thats isnt completely dark?
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Posted By: tomschute
Date Posted: 02 September 2009 at 10:39pm
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first off still haven't given this a go - i'll try to do it at the gig over the weekend but with a whole festival to help organise will be tight! I have to say Lasers to me will always be sh*t. Unless you have someone with silly money and really know what they are doing then they simply look like someone spraying silly string around. Lets be honest. At best you get the dated novalty factor at worst you get burnt retinas. I on the other hand have 8 projectors to hand which are very impressive in the reaction they get. If I can be more versatile with them all the better. I'm still amazed the reaction you get from simply setting up a big screen and blasting with good VJ content. I bought my entire setup for under a grand, that includes 2x 2k units, 2x 1900 units and several 1650 units. I recon thats cheaper than a few (sh*t) lasers. ------------- Out to lunch... stableaudio@hotmail.co.uk www.stableaudio.co.uk Speaker Building Services |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 02 September 2009 at 10:53pm
Then I guess you've either never seen a decent show, or lasers just aren't your thing. Unfortunately the advent of 'DJ' lasers with sound-to-light control have given the whole laser game a pretty poor showing.
But then I guess thats much the same as 'VJ's (using the term loosely, and lets face it, everyone is bloody doing it now) showing mediocre, repetitive clips that have been got from the same internet shares as everyone else, using the same effects from their Arkaos/Resolume hack... ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: tomschute
Date Posted: 02 September 2009 at 11:11pm
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I'm certainly no expert on lasers - but i don't think they are my thing. We used to have this guy who built his own lasers, massive jobbys. He used to driver from across the country (northampton me thinks), we'd give him a bottle of rum and away he'd go...  apologies for the decor  anyway obvioulsy photos can't do it justice but it was multi coloured and intense, like a solid wave acrtoss the club without smoke. I'm sure nothing special these days but it blooow my socks off! Nothing has ever come close to me in all my years of partying. 'Expensive' off the shelf units seem a joke in comparison. Maybe i'm going to the wrong places ------------- Out to lunch... stableaudio@hotmail.co.uk www.stableaudio.co.uk Speaker Building Services |
Posted By: tomschute
Date Posted: 02 September 2009 at 11:13pm
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and yeah there's VJs and VJs. Seeing the VJ allstars I couldn't sleep for days I was just so overwhelmed and amazed. That's tallent! ------------- Out to lunch... stableaudio@hotmail.co.uk www.stableaudio.co.uk Speaker Building Services |
Posted By: foax
Date Posted: 03 September 2009 at 1:48pm
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http://www.party-pa.de/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=58238&p=613353#p613353 - http://www.party-pa.de/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=58238&p=613353#p613353 this is the guy talking who's programming the "beamer sound to light" program - get the 0.5 version without some main features of the upcoming (free) release there. the main point of his posting is: "there are more things to code than i've planned. it's done when it's done" @jake fielder: no i am not "martin fricke". i'm just on the same forum (there: "fox"). on the youtube account of "klomeister123" (martin fricke) you can see a video of a projector in action while there are scanners being used at the same time. |
Posted By: SamV
Date Posted: 03 September 2009 at 7:18pm
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The thing about projectors is that you have to spend big money to get anything remotely decent. Sure there are a lot of cheap projectors now but if you look at the usual suspects Sanyo Xtra standard, their still about the same price. There's no point sticking in a brighter bulb if you don't have the optics or chips to do them justice. I've recently seen my old Sanyo 800 lumen projector show up a Cheapish 4k. There was no contest and the extra 3.2k just seemed to go into washing out the image lol. PS - Decent projectors might be cheaper to initially buy than decent lasers but don't forget about replacement bulbs... usually around £300-600 a pop and different lenses (if needed). That said you'll never properly emulate a decent laser. I have a mate that used to build his own 1 and 2 watt lasers which were fully programmable by machine and nothing I saw came close to them apart from the really big laser shows. He was based in Stratford though. |
Posted By: odc04r
Date Posted: 03 September 2009 at 8:55pm
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I can't help thinking that peeople are seeing this from the wrong angle, it's not about emulating a laser - just using a projector in a different way as another light effect. Something different for the sake of it! Obviously if you want a laser you buy a laser. As an aside I bought a new bulb for my LCD projector the other month, cost me £200 as a I found one reduced from £300. I was pleased. |
Posted By: SamV
Date Posted: 03 September 2009 at 9:30pm
| Sometimes if I'm low on lights I use the big projector + itunes' new visualiser that's reactive to the built in mic, looks beautiful. |
Posted By: numtie
Date Posted: 23 October 2009 at 12:35pm
Just made an enquire into this and they quoted me £1500 lol  and thats not a typo no wonder there not advertising there prices!------------- Disco Hire Wales |
Posted By: mk2_ginger_biscuit69
Date Posted: 23 October 2009 at 2:28pm
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ive used projectors a fair few times for big oil effect projections, looked good!
lasers.... tacky unless they are really high spec units and programmed with some VARIETY!!!
Kam starclusters are the bain of my existance down plymouth, every man and his dogs got one  ------------- ''Remember that the object of a subwoofer is to enhance the output of your main speakers, not overpower it'' ''Dubstep - an elongated electronic fart'' |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 23 October 2009 at 5:27pm
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The thing with lasers is that realistically you want to use them for about 10 mins every hour or so to give that 'woo' factor over the night. However promoters have often shelled out lots of money on hiring them in if it's any good, and so every time they walk into the room and see no lasers it's like 'WHY IS THERE NO f**kING LASER??! IT'S COSTING ME A f**kING FORTUNE I WANT TO GET MY MONEYS WORTH' And all the time the laser is on it means the lighting guy has to watch what he does so as not to white out the laser.
Dunno if anyone saw Robbie Williams at roundhous ethe other night but they obviously spent money on some lasers, but used them appropriately for a single song as far as I could see. Exactly as intended, a special effect. You don't see many gigs with 10 hours of solid pyro now do you...  ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: jamwa
Date Posted: 24 October 2009 at 10:15am
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Heres one for you
My 12k Christies can store presets for zoom and focus so I can Project onto a front screen behind the stange and the other one I did exactly the same at the other end of the room.
then for 1 of the bands songs we hit preset 2 on the wired remote on the back projector it zoomed right out and refocused for the haze at stage end and then through arkaos did a lazer effect - Yeah Norty anything less than 5k and it would look pooh - didnt get any photo's as was a man down due to an empty promise from the client (yeah I will have loads of bodies to help) My arse....
but will get some footage so I can put on the website....
rgds
J ------------- Sound, Light, Projection, Display, Cameras and production support |
Posted By: Rog
Date Posted: 25 October 2009 at 10:06am
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Uummmm,
Have I missed the point somewhere here.
Most if not all projectors can and will connect staright to a PC, either as a monitor or via USB. So why does the laser sim program convert DMX to the projector. I went to the laser sim page and was expecting a bit of PC software with patterns already created that you could drag and drop into a timeline to create a show. Just a PC and a projector. I would have downloaded it and been having fun right now. But DMX, why. You have frightended me off. I've got a PC and I've got a projector, its simple. I want a PC program to make pretty patterns so I can blow my mind with a smoke machine and my projector. Why did you have to bring DMX to the party.
Best laser I ever saw was in 1991 at the Academy in union street Plymouth. Opus supplied the sound system and I was standing on the balcony taking a break when this large red ovulating circle appeard infront of me. Then a yellow triangle appeared and slowly zoomed in and out of the circle. Then followed a blue box that also zoomed in and out and also started bouncing off the yellow triangle. This went on untill there were 6 objects of differnet colours all dancing, zooming and forming new patterns within the ovulating circle. My mind was totally blown away and I just couldn't leave from where I was. Talk about engaging. And I wasn't even on any drugs.
So yeah, the fact that I remember that night means a well programed laser can be about the best mind altering effect money can buy.
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Posted By: Ben_Lawrance
Date Posted: 25 October 2009 at 5:15pm
They were the Martin RGB1.6 lasers
http://www.martinpro.co.uk/product/product.asp?product=rgblaser16 - http://www.martinpro.co.uk/product/product.asp?product=rgblaser16
Nice units, but needed a little more time in the R&D dept in my opinion.
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Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 25 October 2009 at 5:40pm
Nice units but WAAAY overpriced for the spec. Getting 1.6watts of decent RGB white is only going to cost £5k or so, plus decent scanners max another £1k, plus assorted safety boards, case etc Didn't Martin want somewhere in the region of £40k when these came out? Have a look at the Kvants and tell me they aren't very similar units ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 25 October 2009 at 5:47pm
If you are talking about V3D then its not exclusively DMX. However it supports DMX I/O as it is trying to be a laser, so has to support all of the optional control methods that lasers do. In a lot of install situations lasers will have a main machine/controller that is pre-loaded with frames and animations. The control of these is then given over to the LX op who has somewhere in the region of 8 to 14 DMX channels to control frame selection, rotations, zooms, pans, scan rate, etc. It's a way of giving the laser control over to the lighting desk for better integration into a show and less specialised knowledge required. ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: Ben_Lawrance
Date Posted: 25 October 2009 at 6:40pm
Depends who you are
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Posted By: tallmike
Date Posted: 26 October 2009 at 1:28pm
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I'm going to give this a go.
Just bought a pair of 6k DLP 3-chip projectors!
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Posted By: mk2_ginger_biscuit69
Date Posted: 26 October 2009 at 4:09pm
last i heard, the academy is undergoing building surveying and early stages of planning for a new 'superclub/venue'. Big secrets on which international chain it is conducting these works, but should be interesting. Hopefully they wont sell out on the tech side of things if it goes ahead. Plymouth has enough 'average' clubs already!! ------------- ''Remember that the object of a subwoofer is to enhance the output of your main speakers, not overpower it'' ''Dubstep - an elongated electronic fart'' |
Posted By: numtie
Date Posted: 27 October 2009 at 1:10pm
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@rog the program works without the dmx aspect (ithink it also because it means you can hook up a normal lazer and use the same prog) it has a load of set patterns allready programed but tbh the op one is the best imo despite it being german (not being racist i just cant read the dam thing lol) but im working it out the best part is that it all runs by playing flash videos meaning if you able to create basic motion tweens in flash you can make your own effects :) these loads of ones allready in there. Anyway long storry short i had a play at the gig at the weekend doing some basic progs and that despite not having a working hazer it didnt look to bad i even got complimented on my VJ'ing which made me chuckle ------------- Disco Hire Wales |
Posted By: tomschute
Date Posted: 27 October 2009 at 1:58pm
That was the one - we hired in quite a bit of opus, the inhouse system has still left its mark on my hearing  - it was an early Alpha Wave if I remember correctly! Bloody hell, what were you doing down in deepest darkest parts of wales for those nights...? Interesting venue that has now sadly gone.It certainly was a beaut of a laser though! And yes with application like flash it could all be so much easier than DMX. That gives me an idea... ------------- Out to lunch... stableaudio@hotmail.co.uk www.stableaudio.co.uk Speaker Building Services |
Posted By: Pav
Date Posted: 27 October 2009 at 9:55pm
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Off subject slightly but I saw this at Barco's factory in Belgium the other day and it's the muts! Unfortunately they were not up for loaning me one to test!!! http://www.barco.com/en/product/1914 |
Posted By: Sim=bient
Date Posted: 28 October 2009 at 1:15am
| The academys just a giant dust accumulater these days Shame i thought it was quite a charming venue (by plymouths standards) |
Posted By: Sim=bient
Date Posted: 28 October 2009 at 1:24am
The people that run the pavillions (Worst Venue acoustics ever!!!)
are involved they what to convert it into the new pavillions, for bigger bands and stuff
trouble is what ever you do there it will still be on union street and i for one don't like
getting verbal and physical abuse from navy boys of a night out...the crash manor also
on union street, has just opend and has a brand new opus soundsystem and very fancy
decor looks like a shoreditch ponce bar totally out of place with its setting... |
Posted By: tomschute
Date Posted: 28 October 2009 at 3:24pm
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the closing of the academy was in my eyes then death of plymouth really. Tramps changed hands, couperage shut up shop more or less and pretty much all 'underground' venues gave in as wll as promotors. As far as I knew it closed due to the council wanting it bull dozed as the whole of union street was for re-development - how they went about it is another story - glad I wasn't in that night  But with the crunch who knows - there was a petition for a while fighting the closure.I think doing the union street run makes the venue all the better - it's the goal at the end of the road - are you gonna make it or are you gonna get a bloody nose! good old plym - great memorys! ------------- Out to lunch... stableaudio@hotmail.co.uk www.stableaudio.co.uk Speaker Building Services |
Posted By: jumps
Date Posted: 06 November 2009 at 6:28am
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This interface is a nice tool for those who do small type indoor events, and are weak on lighting rig! Take a try :)
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Posted By: Sim=bient
Date Posted: 07 November 2009 at 1:42pm
| I remember plymouth being a very different world to what it is now i guess that was partly to do with the last of the free-festival generation living southwest, they are all in there 40's now and can't be botherd with it, most of em I need to clean my mouth out with soap and watered off to portugal or somewhere warm shame the current generation are a bunch of spoon fed mongs. no generalization intended but its true. |
Posted By: Sim=bient
Date Posted: 07 November 2009 at 1:45pm
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cunty I need to clean my mouth out with soap and water sticks mother having sex doggy poo raper
Hmmm intresting use of language prohibition i expect you have to smoke outside on this forum as well
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Posted By: odc04r
Date Posted: 07 November 2009 at 1:57pm
| Yes, yes you do. |
Posted By: tomschute
Date Posted: 12 November 2009 at 12:35pm
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i think everyone ran for the hills rather than gave up - I did! How can you continue to hold good events when you are being pushed into more and more restrictive environments... not having a go - I ran away, rather than fight for my right to party! It's become a dark place  ------------- Out to lunch... stableaudio@hotmail.co.uk www.stableaudio.co.uk Speaker Building Services |
Posted By: Roland
Date Posted: 16 November 2009 at 12:12am
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How does it works ??
I have a beamer a laptop and i download the lasersim free and V3D Demo do i need more for have this effect ?
It looks nice for play it at home with this but it don't work now what do i wrong ?
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Posted By: numtie
Date Posted: 16 November 2009 at 5:08pm
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Well ive tried and
tested and tbh it is a very good effect and so far have been really happy with
the results. I tried it in around a 500 capacity venue with a 3300 lumen
projector and it looked really good the best way to describe it is a very powerful
gobo ok its not a laser and I certainly wouldn’t use it an outdoor event but it
does have its advantages over the laser. One being crowd scans and the other is
that it can form solid objects. The program I used was the beamer one took a
while to get my head around it but its quiet a good little program with a ton
of effects the best part is it plays swf files or flash files so its really
easy to create your own effects. @roland the V3D demo is rip as in it has had output disabled in the demo one and unless you plan to spend over a grand for the full version give up the beamer one is really easy you just click the big green start button a little white window appears that’s the program out put if you have your computer set up for duel view drag that window into the second screen/projector and click the blue square for full screen flash the strobe button once to get it to go to a black background. The top menu is where you will find all the effects and stuff I cant be bothered to explain how and where because its not easy as its all in German but just play around and you’ll work it out
------------- Disco Hire Wales |
Posted By: Roland
Date Posted: 16 November 2009 at 6:42pm
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Hello,
I have play now with the beamer with another programm : Beamer sound to light.
It gives realy a good looking of visuals straighter than a laser but less powerfull.
It is like a goboprojector with movements that a normal lighting effect can't make.
It's a very nice visual effect !
I used a sony beamer with 2500 lumen
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Posted By: Sim=bient
Date Posted: 17 November 2009 at 6:37pm
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I guess you right,
Still i will never forget the days of castle morton etc...
doubt we will see times like that for quite a while if ever
over here again
 Still the hills are pretty and a nice place to reflect
on what was once.
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Posted By: Frankinsten
Date Posted: 13 December 2009 at 3:18pm
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[/QUOTE]
@ Numtie
Hi, I have a quick question. What is the name of the programm and where do you download it?
Thanks, Tom
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Posted By: ChayD
Date Posted: 17 September 2010 at 9:40pm
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I specifically registered on this forum to say I had a real good chuckle at your comment saying that lasers look "like someone spraying silly string around". I'm going to have to wind up my laserist friends with that one!
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