Lesley not not the woman? the speaker!
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Category: Other Chat
Forum Name: Golden oldies
Forum Description: Post all historic interesting items, stories and photos here (no, not your Nan)
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=31794
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Topic: Lesley not not the woman? the speaker!
Posted By: colint
Subject: Lesley not not the woman? the speaker!
Date Posted: 19 October 2009 at 9:09pm
I picked this up today and sent it on it's way to sunny greece!
a bit bashed up but still working after all those years!
anyone for a valve set?
they don't make em like this anymore (thankfully)
any ideas how old this is? I havn't seen one for at least 30 years let alone one that still works, but I'm sure there's more out there somewhere?
------------- Never criticise another man until you've walked a mile in his shoes. Once you have, call him what you like, you're a mile away and you've got his shoes!
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Replies:
Posted By: Sheggy
Date Posted: 19 October 2009 at 9:17pm
f*cking cool. Never seen or heard one in real life. What'll you do with it?
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Posted By: colint
Date Posted: 19 October 2009 at 9:26pm
Well I wanted to take it apart (as you do) but it was being shipped out to greece so it wasn't mine to take a screw driver too! Shame that?
I hate to think how much the greek blokes paid for it but it aint gonna be cheap thats for sure!
and they sound wonderful from recollection!
Edit: Just a thought? could this have been the first ever active speaker?
------------- Never criticise another man until you've walked a mile in his shoes. Once you have, call him what you like, you're a mile away and you've got his shoes!
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Posted By: colint
Date Posted: 19 October 2009 at 9:34pm
More info here:
http://www.theatreorgans.com/hammond/faq/mystery/mystery.html - http://www.theatreorgans.com/hammond/faq/mystery/mystery.html
------------- Never criticise another man until you've walked a mile in his shoes. Once you have, call him what you like, you're a mile away and you've got his shoes!
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Posted By: studio45
Date Posted: 20 October 2009 at 1:13am
There's nothing like the sound of a real Leslie! it does things that no simulation can match and I suspect it may well have been the first active cabinet, just possibly preceded by the ondes Martenot's various strange output devices although I'm not sure if they had amplifiers in them.
------------- Studio45 - Repairs & Building Commotion Soundsystem -Mobile PA
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Posted By: fat_brstd
Date Posted: 20 October 2009 at 9:04am
i got mine of ebay out of a church in nottingham for less than 100 quid and being a piece of church kit the worst thing that had ever happened to it was a few biscuit crumbs and i dont think it had moved since it was installed there. They do sound amazing.
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Posted By: jbl_man
Date Posted: 20 October 2009 at 2:56pm
Colin,is it the drum bit at the bottom that rotates? i seem to remember seeing one of these with a pair of spinning HF horns in the top part as well.
Edit..just found this photo of a home-made one,which shows the spinning parts quite well.
------------- Be seeing you.
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Posted By: colint
Date Posted: 20 October 2009 at 7:04pm
jbl_man wrote:
Colin,is it the drum bit at the bottom that rotates? i seem to remember seeing one of these with a pair of spinning HF horns in the top part as well.
Edit..just found this photo of a home-made one,which shows the spinning parts quite well.
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yes it does and also the horn at the top! and the speed of both can be varied!
------------- Never criticise another man until you've walked a mile in his shoes. Once you have, call him what you like, you're a mile away and you've got his shoes!
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Posted By: godathunder
Date Posted: 21 October 2009 at 10:17pm
they are fantastic sounding things. my band used to call upon the services of eddie the hat (moloko) to play hammond/leslie . he could produce sounds from the speed controls and drawbars that you would never get from a synth. however, its not the sort of setup you really want to gig with. size, fragility and weight were definitely not on its side.
btw, does anyone know what the bass driver with the square magnet is - I have a very similar looking one sat here that I can never quite bring myself to take to the dump.
------------- LOUDER THAN LOUD
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Posted By: jbl_man
Date Posted: 22 October 2009 at 4:08pm
I think its an old Baker driver(west London),they made all theirs with square magnets.
------------- Be seeing you.
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Posted By: TRE4U2NV
Date Posted: 22 October 2009 at 6:40pm
kef also done some square magnets
------------- IM SO SECRETIVE BUT I CANT TELL YOU WHY
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Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 24 October 2009 at 12:00am
Posted By: godathunder
Date Posted: 24 October 2009 at 2:55pm
Im guessing peavey (it was one of 2 unmarked and mismatched drivers in a peavey 2x15 cab).
its one of the cheapest looking drivers Ive ever seen.
------------- LOUDER THAN LOUD
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Posted By: service dept Steve
Date Posted: 10 April 2010 at 9:42am
I had to do an emergency repair on a Leslie 760 last week for a band going to Spain to record their first album, the lower rotor was behaving but the top rotor only turned when fast speed is selected, the drive is wonderfully simple, there are two motors piggybacked with a wheel in between. The fault was quickly traced to a transistor that fires a reed relay that fires a triac which turned the slow motor on and off. The client (panicking) waited with it whilst I worked on it so I was only able to get a couple of photos when he went to the bog, they are still in the camera which is in a box under a ton of other boxes waiting to move into the new workshop in Wimbledon SW17 (near the stadium, plug plug), I will be moved in a couple of days, the beer fridge goes in on Monday after that I will start unpacking and will be able to post the pictures if anyone is interested. Steve
------------- We are not "They", We are "The others" http://www.servicedept.co.uk" rel="nofollow - http://www.servicedept.co.uk -
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Posted By: BlueDragon
Date Posted: 11 April 2010 at 4:52am
Any thoughts on micing one of these for live use?
I've may have to do it in the near future. I don't have access to an exotic range of mics, would a 57 on the top and a kick mic on the bass work OK, or is there a better solution? Also, would it be worthwhile using 2 mics on each, one either side to better reproduce that 'swirling' sound, or would that be a waste of effort?
Cheers
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Posted By: Teunos
Date Posted: 11 April 2010 at 11:12am
Well, yes. The best possible way of micing one of these is by using 4 microphones. I know, it's an expensive jobby, but take 2 mics like the SM57 for the HF, one left and one right of the rotating HF and connect it to a stereo channel! Do the same for the LF, but use a different microphone which has more low-end extension. This will give you the best results, without loosing any quality of the effect itself.
------------- Best regards, Teun.
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Posted By: illuminate
Date Posted: 11 April 2010 at 11:39am
Nothing quite like the sound of a hammond organ with leslies. We get them toured in from time to time and rarely need to mic them up, especial if its a pair of leslies. They are just so darn loud! It's also great to see equipment with moving parts on stage.
------------- Sound is analogue, get over it!
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Posted By: The Builder
Date Posted: 11 April 2010 at 11:55am
Baker in Croydon? Next door to Saxon in the late 70's Don't think that's a Baker driver, much cruder cast chasis IIRC.
Baker used to quote frequency response in CPS, ahh the good old days..
Edit. Wow, just Googled them, this was the correct address
http://www.tradetod.co.uk/baker-loudspeakers-ltd-croydon/company.html - http://www.tradetod.co.uk/baker-loudspeakers-ltd-croydon/company.html
Surley not still there?
------------- It just is.
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Posted By: pfly
Date Posted: 11 April 2010 at 12:11pm
I usually mike the top part with pair of SM57, MD421 or MD441.Not necessarily from the opposite sides but from two sides, so that the mikes are 90 degrees from each other. Don't forget to pan these L&R
Bottom part could be done with only one mike, if two mikes are out of question, MD421 works nicely. I would guess Heil PR40 would be properly nice there too.
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Posted By: freeytrap
Date Posted: 11 April 2010 at 1:47pm
i have a coppy in the workshop at the moment the only difrence seems to be a polystryen bass scoop and mosfet amp a part from that the moters are the same it even has a simuler fault i have replaced the triacks and am thinking of replacing the relays but i will check the transistors first i am looking for a 4 ohm 12" speaker for it any sugestions
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Posted By: Nitz V1505
Date Posted: 11 April 2010 at 3:00pm
I love them things,cant beat that authentic Hammond sound through a Leslie .The mains have to be well stable cos with frequency fluctuation the speed of rotation varies, i read somewhere with a naff generator can sound bad. Love the valve kt88 valve amp.
------------- LET THE BASS ROLL LIKE THUNDER
& THE TOPS LIKE LIGHTNING.....
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Posted By: service dept Steve
Date Posted: 11 April 2010 at 5:27pm
The 760 that was in for repair was, sadly, only with me for less than an hour. I did have time for a quick look round though. Yes, the synchronous motors will be unchuffed with frequency variations but the horn assembly spins so fast, 4 or 500 rpm full bore, I'm not sure that it would be overly displeased. (would make a mess of either your fingers or a mic) The one I had in had transistor amplifiers, circa 1974 I would guess, but huge, five feet high and three wide. The motor control was either fast motor on, fast motor off, slow motor on, slow motor off so shouldn't be hard to find out why it isn't turning. I will try to locate my camera in the next day or two.
------------- We are not "They", We are "The others" http://www.servicedept.co.uk" rel="nofollow - http://www.servicedept.co.uk -
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Posted By: madboffin
Date Posted: 11 April 2010 at 8:47pm
BlueDragon wrote:
Any thoughts on micing one of these for live use?
I've may have to do it in the near future. I don't have access to an exotic range of mics, would a 57 on the top and a kick mic on the bass work OK, or is there a better solution? Also, would it be worthwhile using 2 mics on each, one either side to better reproduce that 'swirling' sound, or would that be a waste of effort?
Cheers |
As these things are not very hi-fi, having a restricted frequency range and usually being rather noisy, you don't need exotic mics. There are two things to be aware of. First, the rotating horns and reflectors cause a lot of air disturbance, so your mics need good popshields. Second, much of the characteristic sound is due to the phasing effect as the hf horns rotate, and to reproduce it requires a stereo pair of mics on the top section. Either one each side pointing towards the middle, or a proper crossed pair - whatever best gives the sound you want. A pair of general puropse dynamics is best, SM57's or whatever is to hand. I have a pair of old EV 408's which work well because they have swivel mounts and can be positioned where they don't get in the way.
A lot of people expect to use a specialist LF mic, say a D112 or whatever, on the low end (only one is needed here). However you usually end up rolling off a lot of LF noise and rumble which defeats the purpose. I find an SM58 is adequate - it has a good pop filter and not too much LF, and survives being kicked when people stumble into it in the dark.
A Hammond played through a Leslie is one of my favourite sounds...
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Posted By: doober
Date Posted: 11 April 2010 at 9:16pm
I did sound for a band who had one of these last summer. The keyboard player arrived in one van, the rest of the band in another. It was good fun lifting the hammond up onto the stage (3ft high, no ramp), made getting my amp rack up there seem easy.
I went for a pair of 57s left and right just inside the top section, panned left and right, and an ATM25 for the low section. I think that went around the back of the cab pointing into an opening. When he started playing it I soon understood why he bothers taking it out on the road- I've never heard anything quite like it, really warm sound with a very subtle un-cleaness about it. The top end was beautifull and really sits well in a mix, was fascinating to watch as the speeds change too.
I doubt I'll see another one anytime soon.
------------- Blahblahblah
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Posted By: Nitz V1505
Date Posted: 12 April 2010 at 11:51am
You cant replicate that sound,its abit like trying to replicate electric guitar through a good valve combo on a synth. It aint gonna happen!!!!!!!
------------- LET THE BASS ROLL LIKE THUNDER
& THE TOPS LIKE LIGHTNING.....
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Posted By: godathunder
Date Posted: 14 April 2010 at 9:36pm
The Builder wrote:
Edit. Wow, just Googled them, this was the correct address
http://www.tradetod.co.uk/baker-loudspeakers-ltd-croydon/company.html - http://www.tradetod.co.uk/baker-loudspeakers-ltd-croydon/company.html
Surley not still there?
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the shop was still open around 10 years ago but it looks derelict now. perhaps its still open as a workshop. I pass it pretty regularly - Ill peek through the windows and give the door a kick
------------- LOUDER THAN LOUD
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Posted By: service dept Steve
Date Posted: 14 April 2010 at 10:27pm
I have started unpacking and have found my camera.
------------- We are not "They", We are "The others" http://www.servicedept.co.uk" rel="nofollow - http://www.servicedept.co.uk -
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Posted By: burningbush
Date Posted: 19 April 2010 at 3:39pm
Couple on ebay for 99p:
sharma one - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sharma-Leslie-Rotary-Speaker_W0QQitemZ170475130037QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_ConElec_SpeakersPASystems_RL?hash=item27b11c0cb5 - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sharma-Leslie-Rotary-Speaker_W0QQitemZ170475130037QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_ConElec_SpeakersPASystems_RL?hash=item27b11c0cb5
Leslie 760 - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Leslie-760-speaker-cabinet_W0QQitemZ330424910087QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_ConElec_SpeakersPASystems_RL?hash=item4ceedc0107 - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Leslie-760-speaker-cabinet_W0QQitemZ330424910087QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_ConElec_SpeakersPASystems_RL?hash=item4ceedc0107
Don't know if they are any good though.
------------- music is the message
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Posted By: freeytrap
Date Posted: 19 April 2010 at 7:48pm
hears one i have been working on
carnt get photo bucket to work hears a link to flicker sight
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27815733@N02/4535002283/ - http://www.flickr.com/photos/27815733@N02/4535002283/
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Posted By: opus jody
Date Posted: 28 April 2010 at 1:16pm
we've got one at work, which all the amps get carries on to be tested in the testing zone. a bit sacrilegious, i suppose, but much loved. seeing this thread got me thinking about plugging an MS10 synth into it. Acid Leslie mayhem? could be good. i'll have to build a new amp trolley, & see if i can get the leslie working. i'll get some photos.
------------- Improvised Hardware Music http://vimeo.com/user9389813/videos
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Posted By: discosucks
Date Posted: 07 May 2010 at 3:44pm
i remember when i used to work on the floor in a local club picking up bottles and stocken the bar, i was asked to pick up a box of miller from the store, when i opened the door there was a massive box that looked like the above micked in the middle of the floor, i had no idea what it was!
i picked up two cases for miller and went to leave the room when this massive black box let an ear bleeding loud scream out and cause me to jump and drop the two boxes!
i think it was an organ it was used with?? would that be right! me tho i broke half the bottles and took a box for bud out too that i droped them on!
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Posted By: studio45
Date Posted: 07 May 2010 at 9:47pm
Yep that would have been the old "it's too bleedin' loud to be anywhere near the stage, so let's put it in the beer cellar and mic it up" gambit! Good reverb in there too, probably sounded amazing in the band's mix, but they could have put up a "Danger: Automated machinery, may start without warning" sign at least
------------- Studio45 - Repairs & Building Commotion Soundsystem -Mobile PA
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Posted By: Nachural
Date Posted: 08 May 2010 at 10:51am
I toured with the Charlatans and their keyboard player at the time (Rob) loved his lesleys.
We tried a few before we found one that wasn't mechanically too noisy though. Some of the older ones certainly whirred & grinded!
------------- it's all just cardboard and magnets really
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Posted By: kedwardsleisure
Date Posted: 11 June 2010 at 9:37pm
These speakers were named after company founder Don Leslie (note the spelling, pedants!) who died only recently.
A good 145 or 147 will make £500 upwards in working order and usually more.
The valved ones are really the only ones most Hammond players want, as they rely on distorting the valve amp to get the distinctive rock growl. If you distort a solid state version, you wave goodbye to your drivers! The solid state ones were usually paired to solid state organs such as the B200 which were popular with 70's jazz players as they were relatively light to handle.
The valve amp is around 45W or so, passively crossed over. Different manufacturers made these as the license holder including CBS and Hammond Organ. They used many different drivers but the most common ones with square magnets were from Jensen. They were made in the UK and US, imported US ones often have 240-110V transformer factory fitted, the frequency is compensated-for by a multi-way pulley affair.
The top horns are really just a single horn, the other is a dummy for balancing purposes, sometimes people cut-out the plug in the dummy and make it a twin-horn unit, IMHO this spoils the sound.
A rival british company called Keith Hitchcock and Co made a leslie clone called the Sharma in the early-mid 70's, (using wooden horns); these were mostly solid state and shared a single 2-speed motor for both speakers.
Speed control is by 2 twin motors, each rotating part (rotor on the bass, horns on the top) has 2 motors, one rotates it fast and the other slow; they are switched between the speeds by the player. An optional extra was a brake switch which kills power to both fast and slow motor.
Hammond still make a range of Leslies, they are very expensive indeed (several thousand quid)and contain stepper-motors and microprocessor control that simulates the correct acceleration and deceleration, min and max speeds and line-out controls that allow you to simulate virtual microphone positions...all fully adjustable. The bass speaker is seperate and static.
Prince had a hammond and leslie rebuilt in perspex to show off the workings. It was shown on the uk's The White Room pop programme.
The 145-7 valve amps use a regulator valve that can cause the lower cabinet to glow blue in the dark.
------------- Kevin
North Staffordshire
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Posted By: GordonW
Date Posted: 07 July 2010 at 9:43pm
godathunder wrote:
btw, does anyone know what the bass driver with the square magnet is - I have a very similar looking one sat here that I can never quite bring myself to take to the dump. |
From what I see from the picture, it looks like the standard Jensen driver that most of these units were outfitted with. In fact, I just reconed three of them for a local keyboard tech here, so I just got to look at some of them close-up. They were either 16 ohm (early model) or 4 ohm (later model). The early ones had paper-edge cones, where the later ones had stiff fabric surrounds.
You can tell for sure if it's a Jensen... just look on the backside of the mounting rim of the driver, and look for the number "220" followed by three more digits (in the format of "220xxx", where "xxx" is the date code, week and year, that it was made). If you see "220", then it's a dead-on surety that it's a Jensen.
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