Void V18-1000
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Category: General
Forum Name: Electro Frying Forum
Forum Description: Talk about drivers, processors and mixers
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=34444
Printed Date: 27 March 2026 at 7:16am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.08 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Void V18-1000
Posted By: levyte357
Subject: Void V18-1000
Date Posted: 09 January 2010 at 12:26pm
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Anyone know who makes the cones? ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Replies:
Posted By: nomis
Date Posted: 09 January 2010 at 1:59pm
my mum
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Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 09 January 2010 at 2:15pm
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http://www.kurtmueller.com/dkmenglish/seite3.html
------------- ......just all them hanging there like giant bananas. |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 09 January 2010 at 2:25pm
Cheers, any idea of model no? ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
mykey wrote:Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 09 January 2010 at 3:05pm
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check ya pm
------------- ......just all them hanging there like giant bananas. |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 09 January 2010 at 3:28pm
Done... Can some one please put up pick of driver showing Cone model no. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: Saul
Date Posted: 09 January 2010 at 3:41pm
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It usually written in silver pen on the outside. I'll check later
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Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 09 January 2010 at 3:48pm
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Appreciated.
------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 09 January 2010 at 11:30pm
Bump...  ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: backlash
Date Posted: 09 January 2010 at 11:36pm
Saul said "later" well he has 24 minutes left - then its tomorrow! ------------- According to suicide statistics, Monday is the favored day for self-destruction. http://www.truesoundhire.co.uk/" rel="nofollow - Sound Hire |
Posted By: Saul
Date Posted: 09 January 2010 at 11:46pm
hahaha didnt go to lockup :( but anyone who is sitting next to a v18-1000 - look for the silver pen code on the outside of the cone. |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 09 January 2010 at 11:49pm
Cmon guy's, someone please do this before 12am. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: backlash
Date Posted: 10 January 2010 at 12:11am
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Too late! ------------- According to suicide statistics, Monday is the favored day for self-destruction. http://www.truesoundhire.co.uk/" rel="nofollow - Sound Hire |
Posted By: Father-Francis
Date Posted: 10 January 2010 at 10:27am
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I looked at six different drivers all have different numbers very far apart . depending on when bought 90010, 86001 just two of them ------------- Music is the strongest form of magic.(+45 31879997)blakmanpro@gmail.com, foa@sweetboxaudio.dk |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 10 January 2010 at 2:38pm
Dont see these numbers on the KM spreadsheets I've got...  ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 10 January 2010 at 3:03pm
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that could just be production numbers there should be another code ------------- ......just all them hanging there like giant bananas. |
Posted By: cilla.scope
Date Posted: 10 January 2010 at 4:57pm
in silver pen? ------------- My girlfriend thinks I'm a stalker. Well, she's not exactly my girlfriend yet ... |
Posted By: Saul
Date Posted: 10 January 2010 at 5:10pm
maybe the silver pen isnt the cone model then - although all mine have the same number on afaik, and they were bought very far apart in time. |
Posted By: Father-Francis
Date Posted: 10 January 2010 at 5:37pm
Yes in silver pen - the 90010 is a new recone form Void themselves. ------------- Music is the strongest form of magic.(+45 31879997)blakmanpro@gmail.com, foa@sweetboxaudio.dk |
Posted By: cilla.scope
Date Posted: 10 January 2010 at 5:46pm
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hmm .. are they 100% definitely KM cones? Given that we know Rog is based in China, and he said before that the Chassis/magnet is a Chinese chassis, used be several other makers .. why do you think its a KM cone? seems odd to ship KM cones all the way to China, assemble them and ship them back out again?
------------- My girlfriend thinks I'm a stalker. Well, she's not exactly my girlfriend yet ... |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 10 January 2010 at 8:02pm
Yep that's true... Ah well, I just wanted a slightly softer spider, than the one normally shipped with V18-1000. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: Father-Francis
Date Posted: 10 January 2010 at 8:15pm
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Yep that's true... Ah well, I just wanted a slightly softer spider, than the one normally shipped with V18-1000. may I ask why??  ------------- Music is the strongest form of magic.(+45 31879997)blakmanpro@gmail.com, foa@sweetboxaudio.dk |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 10 January 2010 at 8:19pm
Of course, you may ask....  ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: Father-Francis
Date Posted: 10 January 2010 at 8:25pm
can you tell  ------------- Music is the strongest form of magic.(+45 31879997)blakmanpro@gmail.com, foa@sweetboxaudio.dk |
Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 10 January 2010 at 11:47pm
Rog has explicitly stated several times that the cones used are UK-produced Kurt Mueller ones. Isn't there a possibility that they make OEM cones, not on the standard product list? |
Posted By: Saul
Date Posted: 10 January 2010 at 11:49pm
you dont wanna know.....
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Posted By: cilla.scope
Date Posted: 11 January 2010 at 1:29am
Yes, thats a possibility ... I just can;t imagine them shipping them all the way to China to fit em to drivers and then shipping them all the way back ... still thats probably what they do then. ------------- My girlfriend thinks I'm a stalker. Well, she's not exactly my girlfriend yet ... |
Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 11 January 2010 at 1:35am
They could be shipping the chassis and magnet to the UK and fitting the cones there? Or, considering the cones are going to also be used in Void's own cabinets they could be doing all of the driver manufacturing in China in big batches? |
Posted By: cilla.scope
Date Posted: 11 January 2010 at 1:40am
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Well, We know Rog is in China ... I thought he supervised the driver production, so I assume drivers are assembled out there. Ifact they can;t be assmebled in the UK, how would they build and test the cabs without the drivers? So, must be KM cones, shipped out to China I guess, unless KM have a factory out there? Maybe just the recones are supplied from KM UK? who knows ... ahh the mysteries ;) ------------- My girlfriend thinks I'm a stalker. Well, she's not exactly my girlfriend yet ... |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 11 January 2010 at 2:24am
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Or maybe everything is shipped to Spain, and assembled there. ;)
------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 11 January 2010 at 5:12am
A softer spider on a stiff cone, not sure what the outcome would be, would have thought a soft cone and softer suspension would be ok, stiffer suspension and stiffer cone....any references out there Lev? a softer suspension will have a hard time pushing a stiff, heavier cone  . Don't know if you ever remember the first ever B-line drivers lev? these had a stiff'ish cone's and soft suspension, a few hours play at full power, the spider gave up, and the cone sank a few mm, this is what you don't want  If you look at Adamson sounds web site..... http://www.adamsonsystems.com/advanced_engineering/ you can see the stiffer cone not changing shape at all, great for raw bass and kick, but I feel will lack some warmth the V1000 is more suited to FLH's Rog came up with the V1200 for scoops (RLH's) on paper the V1200 is what I would be using in a scoop  Edit: are you aiming for something in between these 2 lev ------------- ......just all them hanging there like giant bananas. |
Posted By: Father-Francis
Date Posted: 11 January 2010 at 8:01am
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thanks Mike
------------- Music is the strongest form of magic.(+45 31879997)blakmanpro@gmail.com, foa@sweetboxaudio.dk |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 11 January 2010 at 9:12am
Phew... thought Mykey had exposed my bizniz there... IMHO, V18-1000 is a top class driver, and I'm expecting "slightly" softer spider to "slightly" change one particular T/S parm, to alter the driver's characteristics in minor way. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 11 January 2010 at 10:20am
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soft suspension and stiffer/heavier cone would be like asking a puny bloke to push you car for you, he ain't gonna push it far "Phew... thought Mykey had exposed my bizniz there... "so if I'm wrong, then what you up to ??
------------- ......just all them hanging there like giant bananas. |
Posted By: Saul
Date Posted: 11 January 2010 at 10:29am
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the v1200 cone is a lot lighter isnt it? |
Posted By: cilla.scope
Date Posted: 11 January 2010 at 10:41am
Nooo ... don't think so .. hmm .. actually, that reminds me .. I must check exactly what it is that comes and goes in all those big cardboard boxes that arrive in the warehouse ... I'll put it on my "to do" list ------------- My girlfriend thinks I'm a stalker. Well, she's not exactly my girlfriend yet ... |
Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 11 January 2010 at 1:57pm
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Rog throws all the parts off the top of a mountain in Tibet...... they then land below in the glopitta-gloppita machine, they come out of the machine to be blessed by Dalai Lama himself, then shipped to beautiful Pool, in Dorset
------------- ......just all them hanging there like giant bananas. |
Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 11 January 2010 at 4:26pm
 ------------- ......just all them hanging there like giant bananas. |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 11 January 2010 at 4:54pm
Mykey, I am dispatching some of my associates to you, to aid your understanding of the term "top secret".  ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 11 January 2010 at 4:58pm
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s h i t, that must be them knocking at the door now, boy that was quick LOL ------------- ......just all them hanging there like giant bananas. |
Posted By: smithers
Date Posted: 11 January 2010 at 6:38pm
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just to throw another spanner out there.
mark @ PAP showed me an 18" double thick magnet V18-4000' while i was down at the unit which was made as a prototype, able to take an Inf 8 in bridge mode..... mark also mentioned that he was reconing a driver to be shipped back to rog, which would leave me to believe that the driver are not finished in china as it would be a bit silly to send a chassis to mark to recone and then send back to china. i could be wrong though. cones dont exactly weigh much so shipping wouldnt be too costly. |
Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 11 January 2010 at 7:04pm
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if someone is good at searching, you will find a post by Rog, STATING that the parts were sent to the UK and assembled there, and that the cones were from KM UK 4k driver, this is getting silly now ------------- ......just all them hanging there like giant bananas. |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 11 January 2010 at 7:33pm
Right then... On that Basis, Can anyone match up a V18-1000 cone part no, to a KM OEM part no? ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: smithers
Date Posted: 11 January 2010 at 7:44pm
yeh mark said the same thing, really no need for a drver like that. |
Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 12 January 2010 at 4:22am
you might have to go about this another way ------------- ......just all them hanging there like giant bananas. |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 12 January 2010 at 1:47pm
Yep... Just want alternate spider, which means I need cone model no.. Not trying to pirate driver.... ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: Jake_Fielder
Date Posted: 12 January 2010 at 1:57pm
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higher vas? is that your biz?
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Posted By: Jake_Fielder
Date Posted: 12 January 2010 at 2:08pm
Its not the suspention that pushes it though, it resists it.
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Posted By: odc04r
Date Posted: 12 January 2010 at 2:20pm
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Dissecting a commercial cab, just so you can put another driver in it would still be copying in my eyes. If you want to design a driver then you need to design all of the driver! My advice would be to start getting used to FEMlab and FEA analysis... If you want a variant on the V18-1000 then document your idea and try and sell it to Rog. If it's good enough maybe he will arrange for your idea to be made in a limited production run and you can buy them... Anything else would be skating a little close to taking the piss imo. |
Posted By: Jake_Fielder
Date Posted: 12 January 2010 at 2:23pm
| But surely if he wants to buy a couple of v18-1000s and get them reconed differently, its not copying or really doing anything wrong? |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 12 January 2010 at 2:32pm
You need to wake up mate... If I buy a blown driver, and buy a recone kit in bits, and decide to use different spider, there's nothing wrong with that. I'm trying to get a "different sound" out of drivers I'll be owning soon, not rip off the dudes design and sell it as my own. Similarly to getting the fans in Your amplifier upgraded, or upgrading the ECU in you car to get more boost out of your Turbo, or different engine timing... EDIT:So I also guess, buying a Martin WSX, using horn response to sim the cab, and then upgrading "your" cab with V18-1000 is copying the cab as well...  ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: odc04r
Date Posted: 12 January 2010 at 3:42pm
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Sure, upgrading a driver with a recone is all well and good - no problem with that and if you buy something then I am all for the right to modify it as you will. Microsoft can pry my modded xbox from my cold dead hands. Asking what the model number of the existing cone in the driver is skating close to the line though imo and that was my point even if I didn't make it well the first time. |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 12 January 2010 at 3:48pm
Fair enough.. Only reason I need the model no, is to find out which spider I need. Whole point of messing with V18-1000, is because its great as is. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: ArthurG
Date Posted: 12 January 2010 at 6:17pm
and you think you will be able to get the sound you want only with a spider swap ? I'm not sure at all... you are like the chinese engineers here... they don't do R&D, they only know T&D (try and develop) when they are not busy in doing C&D (Copy & Develop) !!!!  Anyway, better to start your own homework, softwares are not hard to find and many literature is available. I think it will be faster than your T&D method...
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Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 12 January 2010 at 6:24pm
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I think Lev needs a C of T .....with a biscuit ------------- ......just all them hanging there like giant bananas. |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 12 January 2010 at 6:29pm
Erm.. Have already done homework Arthur, and spoken to "a number" of loudpseaker driver manufacturers, reconers, as well as KM on a number of occasions, weeks before even starting this thread. Already researched making my own custom driver, and quickly realised "that's not" what I need. I would expect many people are tweaking bits of their kit, and mentioning nothing here, due to the aggro received sometimes, just by asking questions. Priceless. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 12 January 2010 at 6:44pm
Yup need to leave work now and have dinner... And just turn up to scoop shootout with driver X, and no more chat... ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: adambomb
Date Posted: 12 January 2010 at 11:11pm
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Well I for one applaud you Lev - well f**king done for having a go. That's TRUE DIY audio right there! Whatever happens, if you succeed or fail, one thing is for certain - you will know more about driver design and the design process that goes in to them than when you started - good thing in my book - everyone starts somwhere. What TS are you hoping to change? Will a looser spider give a lower fs while retaining the efficiency adding a weight to the cone would lose? (I'm plucking ideas out of the air here). ------------- http://www.freespeakerplans.com" rel="nofollow - www.freespeakerplans.com |
Posted By: Saul
Date Posted: 12 January 2010 at 11:28pm
maybe, maybe not
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Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 12 January 2010 at 11:49pm
Cheers mate: http://www.speakerplans.com/index.php?id=faq1 - http://www.speakerplans.com/index.php?id=faq1 Vas: Volume of air equal to the driver compliance. This can be thought of as how stiff the movement of the cone is. The value is given in litres or cu inches. There are a lot of variables that determine the Vas, so you can’t really say that high values of Vas mean a certain thing or are better. A single or double suspension spider will affect Vas, so does the size of the cone. The temperature of the air and also the humidity will affect Vas and so it is one of the hardest parameters to evaluate. http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/speaker-break-in-fact-or-fiction - http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/speaker-break-in-fact-or-fiction When a newly-minted driver rolls off the assembly line it will typically not measure or otherwise perform as one of its well-broken in siblings does. In large part these differences arise owing to the fact that said driver's spider (often crafted of a varnish-impregnated linen) is not as compliant as it will become once it's broken in properly. Depending on number of mechanical factors relating to its design, construction and materials composition, a net post-burn in compliance increase on the order of 5% - 10% would not be unusual. Owing to this initial change in compliance, we can also expect to see, post-burn in, a reduction in fs, given:
Where: a reduction in Qts, given: and Where: and of course, an increase in Vas, given: Where: ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
(Hz)
driver free-air resonance frequency (Hz)
mechanical mass of driver diaphragm assembly including airload (gm)
mechanical compliance of diver suspension ( 
)
magnetic flux density in air gap (T)
length of wire in air gap (m)
mechanical mass of driver diaphragm assembly including airload (gm)
mechanical compliance of diver suspension (μM/N)
driver resonance frequency (Hz)
total Q of driver at resonance fs including all system resistances
Q of driver at fs considering driver nonelectrical resistances only
Q of driver at fs considering electrical resistance, Revc, only
Acoustic mass of driver diaphragm assembly including voice coil and air load
DC resistance of driver voice coil (Ω)
equivalent piston area of diaphragm ( 
)
(L)
volume of air having same acoustic compliance as driver suspension (L)
density of air (1.18 kg/m^3)
velocity of sound in air (345 m/s)
mechanical compliance of diver suspension ( 
)
equivalent piston area of diaphragm ( 
)Posted By: rich_gale
Date Posted: 13 January 2010 at 12:31am
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from what i read on here, rog has the right idea.. use the chinese cheap labour to make the individual components - without teaching them enough to use the knowledge to build the whole finished product. then ship back the components to be assembled by professionals with more going on up top than just a mind trying to rip off the product they are paid to be making. are the cabs built in the uk? china has a habit of biting you on the arse if you let them know too much about what the product is doing. worked with many companies who have suffered the wrath of a chinese numbnut copycat learning too much about the product they are being paid to manufacture. A lot of the esoteric/specialist products sent to china for manufacture 5 yrs ago are now back being made in the uk, hope rog does/has done the same before he gets bitten. ------------- REFLEX ALL THE WAY.... (however, im playing with horns again...) That ok Mister Valiant? :) |
Posted By: nomis
Date Posted: 13 January 2010 at 8:28am
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please stop china bashing all the time.we get stuff made there for one reason-its cheaper,and hence companies can squeeze more profits from cheap labour. its time to make more products closer to home,and big up the companies doing so. yes,even products made closer to home can be copied,but how many people buy fake fk1 for example and really believe theyre getting the same product,how many sales do they actually loose? frankly,slagging off people 'getting to know too much about the product they make' is an example of our attitude to others.if i made drivers all day for not much,i might get curious as to how to do it without being ripped off by my paymasters,surrounded by toxic filth whilst they proudly announce how much cleaner it is up north theese days.rant over! |
Posted By: Jake_Fielder
Date Posted: 13 January 2010 at 10:31am
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So i was right about vas?
Whats the deal with higher vas? i noticed that even doubling the vas only shifts the lower impedence peak downward but doenst really do alot else. I couldnt get your link to work BTW
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Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 13 January 2010 at 10:38am
Bit strange that, was ok until I put it on SP. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: odc04r
Date Posted: 13 January 2010 at 2:29pm
Yes we do tend to outsource a lot of manufacturing to China these days to save due to their lack of manufacturing regulations+worker protection amongst other things. It is also well known that western IP laws might as well not exist there and so if you give away too much product information then you can fully expect a competing exported product to turn up in your market at 1/3 of the price. Maybe the quality is poor compared to yours but it doesn't matter when you can't sell any units and go bust anyway. We only shoot oursleves in the foot for these short term profit gains really, until China decides to play a level ball game then we are always going to loose the import/export battle. For example see Google pulling out of the Chinese market due to slightly less than ethical behaviour on the Chinese side, hopefully that will force some CEOs to confront a few issues. and on topic: Just to say good luck with your tinkering Lev, it is what the DIY ethic is all about after all. I think you may be barking up a rather expensive tree for little gain by redesigning heavy duty drivers but someone has got to have a go. I will look forward to any measurements you get to make. Out of interest do you have any maths or modelling to back your ideas up or is it based on a feeling? |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 13 January 2010 at 2:48pm
In the quoted text,"breaking a driver in" typically results in 5-10% increase of Vas/lowering of Fs anyway, which is always desirable regarding subwoofers. The text also quotes the maths to prove this, but after a lengthy phone conversation with KM engineer, he told me many custom versions of drivers, simply have a slightly less impregnated spider, to reduce stiffness. They did warn me it would result in increased excursion, but if the driver to be modified has sufficient Motor strength and initial compliance, a small reduction in stiffness would be acoustically noticable, yet still allow driver to remain in control with slightly reduced power handling. Have also spoken to number of Reconers, who also do this for some soundsystems, so it is more widespread than people think. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |