above 4 scoop...
Printed From: Speakerplans.com
Category: Plans
Forum Name: Scoops
Forum Description: One scoop or two ;-)
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=36188
Printed Date: 24 April 2024 at 5:39am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.06 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: above 4 scoop...
Posted By: _Natty_
Subject: above 4 scoop...
Date Posted: 22 February 2010 at 8:19am
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i'm really undecided about my new 4 mid bass to put over my 4 18" super scoop the fight is between: horns plan Vs reflex and any way have advantage and disadvantage... for shure i put one 15" b&c speaker on it...wich model allready don't know...any suggestion very wellcome ;) actually my scoop are cut at 100hz(i know that is not the best but i can't work on it for now) and for the upper cut of the 15" no prob i can set how i prefer... up i've 4 12" actually on a double reflex box... Imo: horns: (hd15, hd215, any else?) -very efficent -necessary for a decent kick section (?) -more wood and more time for building -more money to spend -i need an help for working on some parts... reflex: -easy to do -easy to project (i've some one at b&c that can model for me a box) -less wood and less time -l don't need any help for building -less efficent -delay problems (?) any help will be apreciated... |
Replies:
Posted By: The Builder
Date Posted: 22 February 2010 at 9:42am
| http://www.freespeakerplans.com/index.php?option=com_jfusion&Itemid=64&jfile=viewtopic.php&f=16&t=989 - http://www.freespeakerplans.com/index.php?option=com_jfusion&Itemid=64&jfile=viewtopic.php&f=16&t=989 |
Posted By: king david
Date Posted: 22 February 2010 at 10:06am
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i would go for the reflex boxes, if you use b&c and an amp that can give them enough power, u wont be disappointed, 4 x 15 reflex over scoops = good choice, and no delay problems between your system sections.
its less efficient than a horn, but again, you can just use a good amp and it would be fine.also maybe you dont need massive 100to200hz for the dub/roots you play
actually i built horns (es18) to go over scoops, but thats just cause i would use them as stand alone bass bins for live bands, 2 per side
------------- http://www.warriorcharge.noblogs.org |
Posted By: _Natty_
Date Posted: 22 February 2010 at 10:46am
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http://www.freespeakerplans.com/index.php?option=com_jfusion&Itemid=64&jfile=viewtopic.php&f=16&t=989 - http://www.freespeakerplans.com/index.php?option=com_jfusion&Itemid=64&jfile=viewtopic.php&f=16&t=989 is it for a fane speaker...so it's also good for a bc? wich one? any one have try it? kingdavid: Ciao ;) yes i know that bc needs more power than pd for example... but afeter some test 18" neo bc vs 18" pd i've found that maybe is less aggressive but more musically... |
Posted By: bitzo
Date Posted: 22 February 2010 at 11:13am
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to me the sim of bootybass is pretty optimistic, first because is simmed like a scoop and not like a tapped horn, second because hr is optimistic because model the horn with round surfaces. In the forum there's some variations around the bootybass concept. I quote king david for reflex, no delay needed but more watt needed for the same pressure of a horn. cheers, bitzo ------------- http://www.unitedroots.it - United Roots SoundSystem site |
Posted By: king david
Date Posted: 22 February 2010 at 12:05pm
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is it for a fane speaker...so it's also good for a bc? wich one? any one have try it? i built a single driver version, test would be possible, but we live too far. and i used a sonora midbass driver,not b&c one(i dont have any 15 from b&c, sorry for that!
and yes i also have b&c and i love their sound, and for kind of dances i'm doing, 3 hogs/b&c loaded are enough and sound sweet, 4th hog still wait its first dance. also i found some deals on b&c, impossible to beat, pd1850 would be more than twice the price... ------------- http://www.warriorcharge.noblogs.org |
Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 22 February 2010 at 12:11pm
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reflex are no fun
http://forum.speakerplans.com/straight-kick-horn-the-mule_topic35786_page1.html ------------- ......just all them hanging there like giant bananas. |
Posted By: king david
Date Posted: 22 February 2010 at 12:56pm
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yes, nice design and reflex arent that beautiful but natty maybe prefer something he can build by himself also i remember you advising 2 x 15" reflex in the old thread "battle of the scoop kick bins"  ------------- http://www.warriorcharge.noblogs.org |
Posted By: _Natty_
Date Posted: 22 February 2010 at 1:26pm
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for the horns that's suggest mykey i've the same problem with all the rest of the horns plan: angles angles angles!!!!! so i can do by my self any project but i need helps for cutting angles! also after some comment with someone who doing ts parm for big farm i can't trust in it!!!! so simulation for me aren't good at all, never! ;) i trust just in my hears and i can say: -hd are very good but i've heard it just with pd, so i don't know if it's still ok with some bc driver -the last 15" reflex good that's i've heard are on Shilo's sound (something like the bc sub project but turbomax loaded maybe) but the noorth arena is really small so i don't know if i can trust in this test....and many sounds that have reflex are moved to horns.....
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Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 22 February 2010 at 1:39pm
15" reflex above scoops, is simplistic solution, but in all honesty, "optimum" performance requires every cab above a scoop to be delayed appropriately. 1/2 USBs will be louder than 15s, and require less power/drivers to do it, and murder 15" reflex inside or out. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
king david wrote:Posted By: bitzo
Date Posted: 22 February 2010 at 1:59pm
that's interesting....so you can obtain real prooved ts parameters, than sim a cab with that....than build the cab simmed and load it with the same driver with prooved parameters and if this guy have the equipment to measure the spl you can obtain the real scientific truth about simming. ------------- http://www.unitedroots.it - United Roots SoundSystem site |
Posted By: _Natty_
Date Posted: 22 February 2010 at 2:05pm
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yes but also a softwere simulate it...isn't the truth again! maybe relly near but i prefer my hear
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Posted By: king david
Date Posted: 22 February 2010 at 2:12pm
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yes! thats why i built es18 bph!
but first, 15"reflex is tried and tested solution since a long time, and many sounds still use them with good results, it sounds good, nice sound for dub/roots, no need for extreme kick
second...natty would use the upper bass at 100hz and more, no need for a big box as usb/es18/turbosound tse118... i cross my hogs to es18 at 70hz, maximum 80hz, i wouldnt use it for 100hz and above, its a waste of good bass bin(imo), while a simpler, smaller box would be easier to build & move and cheaper to load
remember its not about ideal upper bass bin but what its better for nattys soundsystem.
also he uses b&c drivers, i dont know if they fit in the es18/usb/turbo style cabs
last one from me, today i had free time(thats why so many posts by me) and built a 12"reflex with 1"horn above, for monitor use. it took 2 hours, now i can just wait for the glue to dry and play some music... if u are in a hurry, reflex wins everytime... ------------- http://www.warriorcharge.noblogs.org |
Posted By: bitzo
Date Posted: 22 February 2010 at 2:14pm
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Sorry but I don't get the point. I mean you get the real ts parameters (from this guy that do this job) then sim a cab with this parameters. then build the same cab simmed, and load this cab with the measured driver. then measure the spl of this cab. In this way you obtain the difference between simming and real measurement. that's real scientific truth that not belongs from personal tastes, just from measurement instruments. however the tastes are tastes (i gusti son gusti). ------------- http://www.unitedroots.it - United Roots SoundSystem site |
Posted By: silworm
Date Posted: 22 February 2010 at 2:30pm
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natty, do you know what speakers King Shiloh is currently using? I've seen a recent flyer and it seems they're using some kind of horn but I couldn't figure out which... I'm in the same position as you and would prefer to build simple reflex but don't want to regret it later on... |
Posted By: SebP
Date Posted: 22 February 2010 at 5:01pm
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http://hornplans.free.fr/mkb230.html - http://hornplans.free.fr/mkb230.html |
Posted By: _Natty_
Date Posted: 23 February 2010 at 9:01am
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http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3752609&l=d6bef2fd1a&id=514791786 - http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3752609&l=d6bef2fd1a&id=514791786 |
Posted By: bitzo
Date Posted: 23 February 2010 at 9:20am
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18sound cab without pushpull effect. http://www.eighteensound.com/staticContent/applications/kits/18Sound_kit15_dual.pdf ------------- http://www.unitedroots.it - United Roots SoundSystem site |
Posted By: _Natty_
Date Posted: 23 February 2010 at 9:46am
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no! both speakers are front loaded! |
Posted By: bitzo
Date Posted: 23 February 2010 at 10:00am
yup...no pushpull effect... :) reverse driver and wiring ------------- http://www.unitedroots.it - United Roots SoundSystem site |
Posted By: _Natty_
Date Posted: 23 February 2010 at 2:27pm
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any one have tested this before? http://www.bcspeakers.com/suggested.php?id=0000000007 maybe i can build something like a double box reversed like the shilo's mid bass.. |
Posted By: king david
Date Posted: 23 February 2010 at 2:48pm
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if you plan to use b&c sub15 as bass bin for small parties + kick bin for your full sound, thats a good idea.
if you plan to have a kick bin and stop, then i suggest you a midbass driver, not a sub. it would be more efficient in a reflex box in the 100/200hz range and sound would be better ------------- http://www.warriorcharge.noblogs.org |
Posted By: silworm
Date Posted: 23 February 2010 at 3:18pm
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@Natty: I know Dub Tribulation outta Sweden use the BCSub 215 which is the double version of BCSub. @King David: Which of the B&C drivers would you reckon to work good as a midbass driver? In your opinion, would the PD1550 or PD156 work well in this box? |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 23 February 2010 at 3:23pm
PD1550 is a filthy beast, especially in right horn cab. Ask Shant-I..  ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: bitzo
Date Posted: 23 February 2010 at 3:30pm
double ported wbin? ------------- http://www.unitedroots.it - United Roots SoundSystem site |
Posted By: silworm
Date Posted: 23 February 2010 at 3:33pm
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Ok Levyte, this PD1550 was sugested to me by JTS as a good driver for a reflex enclosure, but I'm glad to know that they can work well in a horn too. What horn are you referring to? This way I might start with a simple design and maybe move to horn in the future without having to swap drivers. |
Posted By: king david
Date Posted: 23 February 2010 at 5:03pm
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for pure upper bass b&c 15plb76...as ceharden suggests here http://forum.speakerplans.com/topic28993.html - http://forum.speakerplans.com/topic28993.html
in the end i built es18 bandpass horns, they are ok, a bit too big and heavy for 1 man lift but do the job very well, nice bass, nice throw, a bit strange when you are very near the stack.
if i would just need a box to just play dub, i would build reflex, good for small places, good for bigger ones when fed with enough power, easy to build, and yes not funny but i'm not funny anyway...  ------------- http://www.warriorcharge.noblogs.org |
Posted By: _Natty_
Date Posted: 24 February 2010 at 8:45am
| but he sayd also that the nw76 doing the job better with some more power...or i wrong? |
Posted By: _Natty_
Date Posted: 08 March 2010 at 2:12pm
first test.... |
Posted By: king david
Date Posted: 08 March 2010 at 2:23pm
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looks great!!! a stack like this would really give justice to roots/dubwise!
only thing i must add is...100hz hpf on the jbl is too high, i'm sure they kick hard! ------------- http://www.warriorcharge.noblogs.org |
Posted By: tweeter box
Date Posted: 08 March 2010 at 8:14pm
looks wicked 
cross to the JBL midbass at 85hz ------------- PRECISION SOUND SYSTEM. Feeding the peoples needs for Roots Music. Strictly premium grade reggae and dub steppers from the early 70's to present day. |
Posted By: bitzo
Date Posted: 09 March 2010 at 8:19am
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_natty_ have you load the wbin with a double 15" or a single 18"? ------------- http://www.unitedroots.it - United Roots SoundSystem site |
Posted By: joseph
Date Posted: 09 March 2010 at 9:48am
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i use the b&c 15 box , simple box , on my 4 way system , playing roots & dub ... very very good cabs !!
see in myspace/jahmilitant , photos section, cultural dub temple II ... just build dem recently and it was the 1st time i played with those kick box ... very good results , loaded with fane .
respects
weeda
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Posted By: silworm
Date Posted: 09 March 2010 at 3:11pm
| joseph, what is the fane model you use and what are the crossover points? thinking of building something similar... |
Posted By: _Natty_
Date Posted: 09 March 2010 at 5:10pm
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nice stack joshep! the jbl are loaded with a single 15" soon i'll open the box and i'll see wich bc driver is...and maybe i'll put one new....this test is made quikly in one session...and it sound great... @tweetr box. actually i can't change my crossover point...mostec style ;) |
Posted By: _Natty_
Date Posted: 27 April 2010 at 9:55am
 we have some problem of times for make a building so we continue some test!!!!with celestion 18" sub....cut off 200hz... |
Posted By: bitzo
Date Posted: 27 April 2010 at 10:30am
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reflex?
------------- http://www.unitedroots.it - United Roots SoundSystem site |
Posted By: Saul
Date Posted: 27 April 2010 at 11:06am
| reflex is a good option |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 27 April 2010 at 11:58am
Oops bit late here... Have heard them in Turbosound TSE215, so they should sound good in HD15s. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: _Natty_
Date Posted: 28 April 2010 at 11:39am
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IMO is not a reflex cab! are really strange but i can't find the project around....maybe not too suitable for crossing at 200hz....but a test is atest ;) |
Posted By: bitzo
Date Posted: 28 April 2010 at 1:13pm
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any chance to see over the grill? or model number ... ------------- http://www.unitedroots.it - United Roots SoundSystem site |
Posted By: _Natty_
Date Posted: 29 April 2010 at 11:23am
| isn't a grill!!!! but a wood panel! i've forget to pick up the serial number sorry... |