Laser news - new blue changes the world!
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Category: Other Chat
Forum Name: Lighting Talk
Forum Description: All your lampy, laser and 'other' special FX needs....
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=39767
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Topic: Laser news - new blue changes the world!
Posted By: norty303
Subject: Laser news - new blue changes the world!
Date Posted: 03 June 2010 at 8:49am
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Dunno how many people realise just HOW expensive blue laser light was up until the last 48 hours, but if not, it was PROHIBITIVELY expensive!
Very small power ratings could cost you an arm, if not a leg. However, in the last week a new source of blue (445nm to be precise) wavelength has emerged from an unlikely source and at a phenomenal price. Casio have released a new projector which is based on LED and laser technology, and comes packed with 24 x 1 Watt 445nm diodes. As we speak, there are various groups around the world buying these things brand new and instantly tearing the things apart to harvest the laser diodes for use as laser display sources 
To put this into context, last week, if you wanted 1 watt of any blue laser it would cost you somewhere in the region of £3k to £4k. Today, you can buy all the components to build a module for about £150!! Expect to see a lot of the cheap crappy ebay Red/Green/Violet projectors dissappear very soon to be replaced by proper (and powerful) RGB's with good modulation characteristics. The only downside at the moment is that the beam specs are not great, but people are working on lenses to suit these new diodes so it won't be a problem for long I don't think. ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Replies:
Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 03 June 2010 at 11:51am
| very interesting... |
Posted By: mrchay
Date Posted: 03 June 2010 at 2:08pm
| Thats a really interesting bit of news - does anyone have links? |
Posted By: SamV
Date Posted: 03 June 2010 at 3:42pm
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Been waiting for this. BTW according to this video, if you buy the projector it comes with one free blowjob ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHBnNPyE_io
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Posted By: Louder than loud
Date Posted: 03 June 2010 at 6:59pm
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Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 03 June 2010 at 8:29pm
To what exactly? The projector itself? The diodes? ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
does anyone have links?Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 03 June 2010 at 8:30pm
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Oh yeah, someone in the US who normally runs big 40watt gas lasers for his blue has gone out and bought 2 Casio projectors (for about $1500) and is going to make a 40watt beastie to replace his gas lasers!! ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 03 June 2010 at 8:33pm
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I've got 2 diodes on the way and components to mount them. Will post pics once I've got them here. Still no definite decision on best lense options, but some are looking at exotic prism and lense combos to get low divergence and round beam ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: odc04r
Date Posted: 03 June 2010 at 9:15pm
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Cool stuff, wonder where Casio has had the diodes fabricated and if the plant even knew what they had made. They probably will soon :) Expect to see them appearing on ebay soon as a result of a Chinese factories 3rd shift! |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 03 June 2010 at 10:04pm
Right, so what do I need to buy sharpish, and where from, so that I can make make cash on it later !? 
------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 03 June 2010 at 10:44pm
Opportunities for making cash have gone I'm afraid, that was last week before everyone knew where they were coming from  One ebay guy did make a bit of a killing apparently tho.
Diodes are from Nichia. Last week they were going for ~$400 each diode, today, you can pick them up for 1/24th of the price of a new projector (about £700) ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: Andylaser
Date Posted: 04 June 2010 at 5:58pm
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Its amazing how quickly the industry can can change when new technology becomes available. Lots of info here. http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=51 - http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=51 |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 11 June 2010 at 8:15pm
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And it could change the world in bad ways, WickedLAsers have just started selling 1 watt blue laser pointers for near pocket money - even mentioning how it could be used as a weapon for self defense. I was a naysayer, but I can see that some legislation may not be too far away, and possible serious injury to some people... ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: chris_k
Date Posted: 11 June 2010 at 10:19pm
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Quote from Wickedlasers "....this laser possesses the most burning capabilities of any portable laser in existence. That's why it's also the most dangerous laser ever created" `Skynet` is ever closer. |
Posted By: Louder than loud
Date Posted: 12 June 2010 at 10:29am
| I friend of mine has just paid someone to make him two 12w Blue laser systems ARRRRR :) |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 12 June 2010 at 10:33am
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Be interesting to see how they go. Whilst the diodes are cheap, getting 12W of them into a single package is going to be tough, and the correction optics expensive I'd have thought. ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: Louder than loud
Date Posted: 12 June 2010 at 10:36am
| He's paying £1800 per unit which includes everything :? I said i'll belive it when i see it but so far he hasn't let me down. ( just built him a 7.5w white light system £££££ ) |
Posted By: Louder than loud
Date Posted: 12 June 2010 at 4:17pm
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If you want a can post a load of picture up of the 7.5w system being used only last week :) ?? If anybody would like to see it say shout and i'll post them
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Posted By: subbass
Date Posted: 14 June 2010 at 1:56am
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Is this one of the new diodes? Serious stuff ! http://www.uberreview.com/2010/06/wicked-lasers-latest-offering-is-a-weapon.htm - http://www.uberreview.com/2010/06/wicked-lasers-latest-offering-is-a-weapon.htm
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Posted By: VPAS
Date Posted: 01 July 2010 at 4:25pm
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So is this the sort of thing you could retro fit in another laser? ------------- n^2 modulo -P = number wang |
Posted By: torch1
Date Posted: 01 July 2010 at 4:36pm
| So when do expect we'll be able to buy decent blue lasers for silly cheap? |
Posted By: mk2_ginger_biscuit69
Date Posted: 01 July 2010 at 4:37pm
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that laser pointer seems rediculous, why would anyone sell something handheld which can burn skin, instantly blind etc etc, its truely rediculous!! Kinda scares me - theres enough dicks out there with the powerfull green ones! ------------- ''Remember that the object of a subwoofer is to enhance the output of your main speakers, not overpower it'' ''Dubstep - an elongated electronic fart'' |
Posted By: SamV
Date Posted: 01 July 2010 at 6:57pm
You can buy them now. What scares me about the wicked lasers stuff is that it's actually dangerous. And I'd be surprised if it doesn't lead to legislation coming into affect about who can own/use them. Which screw over a lot of legitimate people who user/hire large lasers but respect safety rules. |
Posted By: Louder than loud
Date Posted: 01 July 2010 at 7:16pm
| There being pulled of the market so buy them quick :) |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 02 July 2010 at 12:05am
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Well, I've got 2 of my diodes mounted in my projectors now - both are doing about 1.5 watts total power - 500mW 532nm, 400mW 640nm and the 445nm doing about 600mW. That gives quite a nice white, edging towards the blue for that 'ice white' shade. Have had the blues up to 1W so far and they seem perfectly happy.
Will post up some pics of the builds and some beam shots when i get some over the weekend. Unbelievable to think that 800mW of 473 will cost me ~$9k, and I've just built these 2 for under £300 the pair including drivers, mounts, new mirror mounts, dichros, etc Got a few spare diodes stashed away for a rainy day too. Might do a 2watt blue that might grow into a monster RGB as funds allow ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: SamV
Date Posted: 02 July 2010 at 12:24am
| Nice :) If you ever wanna sell lemme know :) |
Posted By: B.P.Sound
Date Posted: 02 July 2010 at 12:31am
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Go to sleep Tim ------------- http://www.londoneventrentals.co.uk/ https://www.facebook.com/LondonEventRentals |
Posted By: Louder than loud
Date Posted: 02 July 2010 at 12:56am
Go to bed Barry
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Posted By: AUDIO HABIT
Date Posted: 02 October 2010 at 8:36am
any updates on this norty,would be good to know how your getting on with it,and have you got and pic/vids by any chance
cheers
mike ------------- https://www.facebook.com/fxstageproductions |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 02 October 2010 at 10:36am
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Yep, I did the dance stage at the Alchemy Festival a couple of weeks ago.
------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 02 October 2010 at 10:46am
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very nice. interesting how your lowest power is running in the red diode, but most commercial units seem to have loads of red power i guess thats cheap diodes?
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Posted By: AUDIO HABIT
Date Posted: 02 October 2010 at 11:13am
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wow ..extremely colorful aren't they .if you dont mind me asking how much would one of them cost ------------- https://www.facebook.com/fxstageproductions |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 02 October 2010 at 11:23am
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Nope, its wavelength specific mainly.
Most cheaper commercial products use 660nm (usually extracted from CD/DVD sleds, very dark red) or 650nm. Unfortunately 650nm is a multimode diode which results in a big fat beam (usually 5mm square or similar, with high divergence - they're known as flashlights, for good reason). This means the power is spread out over a wider area - same principal as for sound density. So: 660 is very dark = more power required 650 is very fat but a nice red = not great for integrating with better beam specs of green or blue 635 is bright per mW, but a bit too orange and also fat like 650 (so same issues) Then along came 640nm. Nice tight beam specs, good red colour, but a bit more expensive. I used to own a 1.1 watt 650, but switched to the 640's at 400mW for the better beam specs Here is a vid of the 650 next to the 640, you tell me which is which? Benefits of 640 also mean you can run lower power for same effect (safety). However, this doesn't sell lasers (bigger numbers = better, obviously!) - which is why you see 660 and 650 predominantly in the cheaper commercial stuff. I reckon I'd need 2W+ of 660 to keep up with 1/2W of 532nm and that still might not be enough for a good balance. It is quite like sound, in the way that 'How many watts is it mate?' isn't the whole story, but the laser market is still very much lead by how many watts you're packing, and in some situations its true, just not with reds (or blue/violets) 
------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 02 October 2010 at 11:36am
To build, or buy commercially? If you wanted an off the shelf product I guess you'd be looking at £2.5 to £3k perhaps, maybe less. You build, probably somewhere in the region of £1.5 - £1.8k Once you have lasers and scanners, you still need a case (~£250) and optics (I guess I spent about £200 for each projector on optics and adjustable mounts, and I got some good deals) ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 02 October 2010 at 11:37am
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very interesting. Building a laser system is something id love to do at some point, but there is a great deal to learn first i suspect... i guess you can still tell the promoter of punters that its a 5w system...
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Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 02 October 2010 at 11:39am
| ps - im guessing the 640 is on the left, looks a little more orange |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 02 October 2010 at 11:44am
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Yep, you're right, although the camera CCD shows it up worse than it is in real life. But brightness for brightness they're right on the money.
Next up looks like it could be a 4W beast, with 2W of 532 and 2W of 445. At some point red could be added but at what cost...!!! With 532 you look to pay about £1/mW for something reasonable, £300 should have a dual diode 445 setup running, but 2W of 640 is still extemely expensive. That said, new diodes are hitting the market all the time, so it may get cheaper as time goes by. Certainly, my bank balance says I'll have to play the waiting game! ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: JohnnyPyro
Date Posted: 02 October 2010 at 11:52am
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An interesting read there, i have been think about building a laser for quite a while , esp for my firework displays , i have 2 Robe wash 575's , heads are knackerd and was thinking of mounting a laser on the arms .. prob ive hqad so far is finding one that fits .. the idea was to have them as moving heads for when i do weddings, at some place i fire aqua shells into the lake .. so i could program the laser to scan the lake while the aqua shells went off, then back up into the sky for the rest of the show ... have you done this at all Norty?
Appreciate any help
Johnny ------------- Pyrotechnics... its not rocket science, well.... actually it is !! :o) Powered by MC2 & XTA |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 02 October 2010 at 12:01pm
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Whilst its a nice idea and there's a few around, I'm not a big fan of lasers of any significant power mounted in moving heads. Given the time I spend setting up and setting beam zones to ensure safety, I'm still not convinced that DMX is a good way to point high power lasers around the place. I've seen some 2W greens being used in a club where they were just given over tot he lampy to operate off his Avo. There were really NO safety considerations taken there.
If you are doing outside work then you probably want 2 watts of green really (with facility to control the 'atmosphere' quite effectively, be it foggers, smoke bombs, fireworks, etc) Bear in mind that decent scanners have quite a good angle of deflection so you could still scan across a lake, and up into the air with a regular projector. For that video I was only using about 20% vertical angle. Also remember that the less a beam is pointing towards you, the less visible it is, so you are unliley to be wanting to shoot beams straight up. Also consider the paperwork aspects if doing outdoor shows where you want to fire beams into unterminated airspace. I believe you need to log this with CAA. ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: JohnnyPyro
Date Posted: 02 October 2010 at 12:18pm
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With a a lot of the shows i do we have to contact local airports etc esp on high ground firing 8" shells,
was actualy looking doing RGB Norty , purely for the fact that i could then you appropriate colours for the design of the show , as you probably know, fireworks let off a hell of a lot of smoke and aqua shells leave a great mist sitting above the water , use of a lazer could probbly enhance the overall look
I understand what you mean about health and safety, just from the industry im in it is a huge amount of paperwork
im not looking to build one in a short period , which would give me plenty of time to do research on H&S whilst im building
i had thought about incorporating the shutter from the head to block any chance of the beam hitting the crowd as it scanned from the lake upwards
i know its not totaly thought through, but a great little project to keep me occupied while im getting back on my feet again
beats sitting about all day after a hard session at physio and keep the brain going ------------- Pyrotechnics... its not rocket science, well.... actually it is !! :o) Powered by MC2 & XTA |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 02 October 2010 at 12:27pm
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If you want to go RGB for outdoor work then I think you need to be looking in the 4-6W total power region really, thats the intention for my big build.
That said, the first outing for these 2 projectors was outdoors, right next to an RAF airfield (we terminated beams on the ground and trees just up the field a bit) This was with a fogger and fan right underneath the lasers, as you can see, the beams all but dissappear when the wind moves. ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: JohnnyPyro
Date Posted: 02 October 2010 at 1:00pm
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Very Impressive light show there Norty, although the pyro did make me chuckle, that is exatly the kind of look im after, im not to bothered by a bit of wind clearing some of the smoke, afterall its only to back up the Pyro and not a main feature unlike your video where its reversed, have tried it with heads in the past .. but to be honest it looked rather pants, to foggy rather than clean cut lines , although some of the gobos looked quite good
This is a show i fired last year at drayton manor ... lasers were down to another company but you see the effect im after
------------- Pyrotechnics... its not rocket science, well.... actually it is !! :o) Powered by MC2 & XTA |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 02 October 2010 at 1:59pm
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Have you tried contacting the company to see what sizes they used for that show? Might be a good start.
Also, they are using lots of single beam type effects, these will always look brighter to the eye outdoors. It also looked like they had some bounce mirrors mounted this side of the lake - a great way to make 1 or 2 lasers look like more than they really are. The other thing for beam shows that makes a big difference to perceived brightness is the scan speed. Again this is a 'bigger is better' situation on the numbers front for marketing and is only really relevant if you are doing high quality graphics shows. For aerial beam shows you want to scan slower as this means you get longer dwell on each point (and hence it seems brighter). It also means that diode pumped lasers get a chance to come up to full brightness on each point - a known characteristic of some pumped (DPSS) heads is that when modulated fast they don't always achieve max output on each cycle (due to rise time), so slower is better. I run scanners capable of 25kpps ILDA test at 8 degrees but run them at 18kpps which is still good enough for graphics on scrim and good beam shows. If you're interested I can put you in touch with the importer for the laser heads I use - he also does custom builds and has a range of single colour heads that aren't too expensive, but will be better quality (and have better support) than some others you might look at. PM if you want a bit more info. ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: JohnnyPyro
Date Posted: 02 October 2010 at 2:21pm
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yeah i spoke to guys on site about the gear they were using, they were not very willing to give any specs , i guess its to do with similar interests, im not after the extemes that was in that show as my own shows are a lot smaller .. weddings and small corporate events, so cost is an issue if i can build one for lets just say half the price, but still have a good quality laser, then that can reflect in the cost to the client ------------- Pyrotechnics... its not rocket science, well.... actually it is !! :o) Powered by MC2 & XTA |