----Show Off Your Heftiest Woofer-----
Printed From: Speakerplans.com
Category: General
Forum Name: Show Off Your Sound System
Forum Description: Show of your gear. Post pictures of your Sound System here...
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=40181
Printed Date: 26 March 2026 at 4:57pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.08 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: ----Show Off Your Heftiest Woofer-----
Posted By: rich_gale
Subject: ----Show Off Your Heftiest Woofer-----
Date Posted: 15 June 2010 at 8:53pm
i just picked up a nice 12" woofer. An oldschool cerwin vega stroker 12" woofer. though a car audio driver, it shares a lot of features found on pro audio drivers. the 11.5mm xmax, high motor strength and strong cone and 95db/1w sensitivity should give me a great output once i decide on a suitable cabinet.  she has a rather hefty looking motor structure im sure you will agree!  ------------- REFLEX ALL THE WAY.... (however, im playing with horns again...) That ok Mister Valiant? :) |
Replies:
Posted By: SamV
Date Posted: 15 June 2010 at 9:28pm
If you want hefty... RE Audio XXX12. doggy poo loads of fun. But not that efficient but by god it drops low and sounds quite good.
|
Posted By: torch1
Date Posted: 16 June 2010 at 10:31am
I've got 2 x RE XE 15's which are pretty hefty too. Tripple stack magnets. Two of them was a bit much for a hatchback tbh  |
Posted By: Saul
Date Posted: 16 June 2010 at 11:01am
| one way excursion of 22mm !!! nutters |
Posted By: JR.junior
Date Posted: 16 June 2010 at 11:45am
|
nah..this is hefty!  ------------- Support the scoop technology, larger mouth plays louder! |
Posted By: torch1
Date Posted: 16 June 2010 at 11:56am
The MTX Jackhammer has to win this competition: http://www.mtx.com/caraudio/products/subwoofers/jackhammer.cfm - http://www.mtx.com/caraudio/products/subwoofers/jackhammer.cfm
|
Posted By: Saul
Date Posted: 16 June 2010 at 12:34pm
| it does beg the question tho....why? |
Posted By: djyves
Date Posted: 16 June 2010 at 1:49pm
I don't think so:  ------------- "If brute force doesn't work, you're just not using enough!" |
torch1 wrote:Posted By: djyves
Date Posted: 16 June 2010 at 1:51pm
 ------------- "If brute force doesn't work, you're just not using enough!" |
Posted By: torch1
Date Posted: 16 June 2010 at 2:30pm
|
There's always one
|
Posted By: SamV
Date Posted: 16 June 2010 at 2:40pm
| Trouble is though that the jackhammer sounds doggy poo. Whereas the RE is wide accepted to be a fantastic SQL driver. It'll go lower and louder and sound better than the MTX. |
Posted By: torch1
Date Posted: 16 June 2010 at 3:24pm
Yep, I love mine. |
Posted By: Oscar
Date Posted: 16 June 2010 at 4:24pm
back to the original post, thats a nice speaker you got there....I got one just like it, although I need to take better pics of it   |
Posted By: SamV
Date Posted: 16 June 2010 at 5:04pm
| It's a CV stroker isn't it? |
Posted By: Oscar
Date Posted: 16 June 2010 at 6:09pm
|
yup, both mine and rich_gale's...just from different angles
|
Posted By: SamV
Date Posted: 16 June 2010 at 6:11pm
| Wait I don't see what the big deal is, didn't rich have an 18" Stroker not so long ago? |
Posted By: Oscar
Date Posted: 16 June 2010 at 6:14pm
| good question...if he did, what did he do with it?.....I have two 18s here, one in need of recone'ing....top plate is huge on these suckers |
Posted By: SamV
Date Posted: 16 June 2010 at 6:19pm
| He built it into a 12v rig if I'm not mistaken :) |
Posted By: Oscar
Date Posted: 16 June 2010 at 7:01pm
thats cool.....here is a pic of one of my 18" strokers next to the 12" stroker: the top plate on the 18" comes in at a full 1" thick here's one of the 12" stroker (which shares the same motor with the 15" version) next to a Eminence Kilomax 15":  the Kilomax pales in comparison lol |
Posted By: rich_gale
Date Posted: 16 June 2010 at 10:46pm
|
the stroker 18 top plate is immense. i did have a stroker 18 - but it was a pro audio variant. 8ohm, 10mm top plate (instead of 25mm). it had a lot lighter cone and less power handling. spl/1w was over 100db/1w. model number was 189sc . @ oscar: i notice your front spider mount is pushed a few mm further down the spindle than mine. did yours come like this from the factory? ------------- REFLEX ALL THE WAY.... (however, im playing with horns again...) That ok Mister Valiant? :) |
Posted By: Oscar
Date Posted: 17 June 2010 at 1:42am
actually it did come like this, but it was not bought new...i bought it used from Ebay....once I found the site www.cerwin-vega-fans.com, i found some pics of brand new stroker 12s and I saw that the top spider was biased just a tad higher than mine, so I've adjusted mine sinc: |
Posted By: jazomir
Date Posted: 17 June 2010 at 10:22am
|
Always impressed by the JTR Growler drivers - they look so mean (1000w AES/2000w program) yet at the same time so damned neat: http://jtrspeakers.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=36131677&postcount=27 - http://jtrspeakers.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=36131677&postcount=27 ------------- For sidefills, can we have two enormous things of a type that might be venerated as Gods by the inhabitants of Easter Island, capable of reaching volumes that would make Beelzebub soil his pants. |
Posted By: Oscar
Date Posted: 17 June 2010 at 3:15pm
thats definitely a nice looking driver, especially with that new 4" voice coil...do they sell those drivers outright? |
Posted By: rich_gale
Date Posted: 17 June 2010 at 8:37pm
|
hey oscar. please can you check something for me.. if you unscrew the three allen head bolts on the back plate of your blown stroker 18, does it allow you to remove the back plate? or is it glued? i have another stroker with some rust buildup in the vc gap and i want to see if its possible to get at the vc gap to clean it up without a full reconing ------------- REFLEX ALL THE WAY.... (however, im playing with horns again...) That ok Mister Valiant? :) |
Posted By: asaa00
Date Posted: 17 June 2010 at 9:13pm
|
a mod or the OP should rename this thread "-=SHOW OFF YOUR DRIVERS=-" and just keep the pics comin'guys......
------------- http://soundcloud.com/asaa - My Studio Productions |
Posted By: rich_gale
Date Posted: 17 June 2010 at 9:18pm
fixed. would be nice to see shots showing off the mechanics of all the main drivers. ------------- REFLEX ALL THE WAY.... (however, im playing with horns again...) That ok Mister Valiant? :) |
Posted By: RosscoPico
Date Posted: 17 June 2010 at 9:35pm
|
Massive Audio subs look good (for car subs) IMO:
------------- .:ELEMENT 5 SYSTEMS:. |
Posted By: djshaney
Date Posted: 17 June 2010 at 9:50pm
|
why do all car audio companies have such cheesy names |
Posted By: JR.junior
Date Posted: 17 June 2010 at 10:26pm
CV-Stroker Pro 12"!
 ------------- Support the scoop technology, larger mouth plays louder! |
Posted By: Sinfinity
Date Posted: 17 June 2010 at 10:29pm
 Big woofer ------------- Matt at ukamp dot co dot uk |
Posted By: JR.junior
Date Posted: 17 June 2010 at 10:38pm
 EPIC!! ------------- Support the scoop technology, larger mouth plays louder! |
Posted By: asaa00
Date Posted: 17 June 2010 at 11:16pm
hahahaha good woofer poo  ------------- http://soundcloud.com/asaa - My Studio Productions |
Posted By: rich_gale
Date Posted: 18 June 2010 at 7:43am
i just died. ------------- REFLEX ALL THE WAY.... (however, im playing with horns again...) That ok Mister Valiant? :) |
Posted By: Oscar
Date Posted: 18 June 2010 at 9:33pm
|
so when it says "show off YOUR heftiest woofer", shouldn't it be woofers that people actually own, instead of just showcasing what people can find on the internet? |
Posted By: Oscar
Date Posted: 19 June 2010 at 4:01am
good question.....I have not been able to check that since my tiny allen wrenches will not allow enough leverage to loosen those bolts.....what's preventing you from checking yours? |
Posted By: rich_gale
Date Posted: 19 June 2010 at 9:42am
|
i dont want to go losening them and ruining the coil of a woofer that might not need a recone. if i can get to it easy i can clean and vacuum out the vc gap from the back. otherwise i think i might open up the central spindle hole (in the center of the front spider) a bit with a scalpel and get a thin vacuum nozzle in there while running a 20hz signal free air. i will make the hole in the front spider small enough so it is covered back up once the centering ring is screwed back in place. its not a terrible rubbing noise from the rust, but enough to annoy me. any ideas before i go and order a recone kit?
------------- REFLEX ALL THE WAY.... (however, im playing with horns again...) That ok Mister Valiant? :) |
Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 19 June 2010 at 10:10am
|
You can always remove the current cone complete - providing cerwin vega use a rubber based glue for the suspention part
by using a slovent such as acetone and a lot of patience, it is possible usually to remove the cone and coil complete and undamaged, do your clean up, and then re-cone using your old kit
i have done this on jbl e series and HH drivers in the past which suffer from gap corrosion
|
Posted By: Oscar
Date Posted: 19 June 2010 at 3:42pm
unfortunately the strokers use some kind of hardening adhesive, perhaps akin to an epoxy...i've tried acetone on my blown 18" stroker, and it wont do anything to it...it will have to be removed by physical means like scraping rich, i'll see what I can do to try and get those bolts off |
Posted By: rich_gale
Date Posted: 20 June 2010 at 12:38pm
|
cheers for the input guys. i think i might have a go with some gunwash or cellulose thinners. i know gunwash does well on contact adhesive but it needs a good soak to break it down. ------------- REFLEX ALL THE WAY.... (however, im playing with horns again...) That ok Mister Valiant? :) |
Posted By: Tony Wilkes
Date Posted: 20 June 2010 at 1:08pm
 |
Posted By: rich_gale
Date Posted: 20 June 2010 at 4:00pm
|
yikes. is that an aurasound 'neo-radial' licenced design? underhung? ------------- REFLEX ALL THE WAY.... (however, im playing with horns again...) That ok Mister Valiant? :) |
Posted By: RosscoPico
Date Posted: 20 June 2010 at 4:09pm
|
Nope! Read what it says on the box it's sitting on ------------- .:ELEMENT 5 SYSTEMS:. |
Posted By: IanD
Date Posted: 20 June 2010 at 4:49pm
BMS18N860 ;-) (I've got a Seismic 8196 which is a modified Aura 1808 with 1100W power handling, I'll post a picture next time we get the band's rig out) |
Posted By: Tony Wilkes
Date Posted: 21 June 2010 at 4:55pm
Ian  Still prefer the 850's but I am going to try the 860's in some IB boxes. Tony |
Posted By: S DeXter
Date Posted: 21 June 2010 at 6:40pm
I think the 860 would make a really great studio sub, would have thought the 850 is more suited to pro sound boxes... ------------- Enjoy your self...... It's later than you think....... |
Posted By: patrickmaximum
Date Posted: 21 June 2010 at 8:19pm
|
Atomic 12´´ Dc Audio - level 5 10´´ lms - 18´´    http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/5781/1155800280large.jpg -
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6687/dsc02524zj.jpg">
 http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/3666/mijn15.jpg">
 http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/1249/lms1.jpg">
 ------------- Patrick_Maximum |
Posted By: rich_gale
Date Posted: 21 June 2010 at 8:44pm
|
thats hilariously hefty. are those magnets wider than the frames? ------------- REFLEX ALL THE WAY.... (however, im playing with horns again...) That ok Mister Valiant? :) |
Posted By: patrickmaximum
Date Posted: 21 June 2010 at 10:22pm
|
yess LOL like the DC audio lvl 5 10'' ------------- Patrick_Maximum |
Posted By: cilla.scope
Date Posted: 02 November 2010 at 2:01pm
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Worst thing is .. I reckon that BMS 18" neo would crap all over those "ooh, look what a big chrome plated magnet I've got" car speaker jobbies ... as with anything related to car willy measuring competetitions, they always look more impressive than they actually are .. I bet if you loaded them up on a real amplifier, they woul crap out at a few hundred watts.
------------- My girlfriend thinks I'm a stalker. Well, she's not exactly my girlfriend yet ... |
Posted By: Strange Daze
Date Posted: 03 November 2010 at 2:42pm
 :-) |
Posted By: kay-singh
Date Posted: 03 November 2010 at 2:57pm
|
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Posted By: rich_gale
Date Posted: 03 November 2010 at 8:41pm
|
wow. concentric dual magent/vc? ------------- REFLEX ALL THE WAY.... (however, im playing with horns again...) That ok Mister Valiant? :) |
Posted By: JohnnyPyro
Date Posted: 03 November 2010 at 11:23pm
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heres my buggers http://www.orioncaraudio.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=514 - http://www.orioncaraudio.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=514 2 sat in the loft ... wish i hadnt bought a sports car now lol ------------- Pyrotechnics... its not rocket science, well.... actually it is !! :o) Powered by MC2 & XTA |
Posted By: subbass
Date Posted: 03 November 2010 at 11:28pm
lol SPECIFICATIONS
|
Posted By: JohnnyPyro
Date Posted: 03 November 2010 at 11:35pm
|
yeah i think someone seriously cocked up there ... 30db sens lolol ------------- Pyrotechnics... its not rocket science, well.... actually it is !! :o) Powered by MC2 & XTA |
Posted By: RosscoPico
Date Posted: 10 January 2012 at 7:33pm
|
I must say, I was bit excited when I unpackaged these new carbon drivers which came from Italy;
They're sexy eh! ------------- .:ELEMENT 5 SYSTEMS:. |
Posted By: spongebob
Date Posted: 10 January 2012 at 7:58pm
AA SMD 18 (I dont own one, but boy I wish I did)  Got voicecoil? |
Posted By: jerronimo
Date Posted: 10 January 2012 at 8:10pm
That's a nice looking driver 
B&C ?
|
Posted By: RosscoPico
Date Posted: 10 January 2012 at 8:24pm
|
Nope, it's an Eighteensound 18NLW9600C http://www.eighteensound.com/index.aspx?mainMenu=view_product&pid=304" rel="nofollow - http://www.eighteensound.com/index.aspx?mainMenu=view_product&pid=304 I wasn't expecting a carbon dust cap as the website shows a different looking driver...anyway I'm not complaining! Cool thing is that it's got a aluminium voice coil for very high power handling. Spongebob - sure that seriously is a big voice coil eh! ------------- .:ELEMENT 5 SYSTEMS:. |
Posted By: RosscoPico
Date Posted: 10 January 2012 at 8:43pm
|
You could say these are more hefty though, the 18sound 21NLW9600; Bathing together in the sunshine :)
And upside down;
------------- .:ELEMENT 5 SYSTEMS:. |
Posted By: GEB
Date Posted: 10 January 2012 at 9:13pm
There's a video on youtube of a run of the mill atomic driver connected up to the mains 220-240vac, not sure what that equates to watts wise? Anyone?
|
Posted By: Peter Jan
Date Posted: 10 January 2012 at 9:58pm
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About 6.5kW for an 8 Ohm speaker. That makes it a noisy, shivering and inefficient stove I guess |
Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 10 January 2012 at 10:02pm
Which boxes will those be in? ------------- Marjan Milosevic MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
Posted By: Father-Francis
Date Posted: 10 January 2012 at 10:31pm
|
he put the link it should be these ones here http://www.eighteensound.com/index.aspx?mainMenu=view_product&pid=304" rel="nofollow - http://www.eighteensound.com/index.aspx?mainMenu=view_product&pid=304
------------- Music is the strongest form of magic.(+45 31879997)blakmanpro@gmail.com, foa@sweetboxaudio.dk |
Posted By: fuzzylogic
Date Posted: 10 January 2012 at 11:19pm
Badman 1851  ------------- NEIGHBOURHOOD SOUNDSYSTEM Infinitely baffled. |
Posted By: Jimmer
Date Posted: 10 January 2012 at 11:20pm
|
God they look brutal rupe! ------------- http://connect-av.co.uk" rel="nofollow - http://connect-av.co.uk |
Posted By: fuzzylogic
Date Posted: 10 January 2012 at 11:27pm
We likes em,great for dusting venues ceilings. ------------- NEIGHBOURHOOD SOUNDSYSTEM Infinitely baffled. |
Posted By: Edd Jordan
Date Posted: 10 January 2012 at 11:45pm
|
Mine. hope to have 4 more by the end of the year! 
------------- I do a sideline in ply wood wheels. |
Posted By: Dub Specialist
Date Posted: 11 January 2012 at 12:24am
12" heafty magnet 4"VC  ------------- treat all creation with respect. For music is sound...sound is vibration...vibration is energy... and energy begets life. Therein lies my passion! MUSIC IS LIFE 
|
Posted By: Oscar
Date Posted: 11 January 2012 at 12:36am
so sexy, I might have to buy one just for the sexiness!!! |
Posted By: fuzzylogic
Date Posted: 11 January 2012 at 12:46am
Skytronic is my guess...  ------------- NEIGHBOURHOOD SOUNDSYSTEM Infinitely baffled. |
Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 11 January 2012 at 12:48am
I was asking where will he use that driver. Which box. I know the model. ------------- Marjan Milosevic MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
Posted By: RosscoPico
Date Posted: 11 January 2012 at 1:04am
|
Hi MarjanM, our 'Predator' subwoofer has been redesigned slightly so they're now modified to take these 18" drivers instead of the 21's. The result is improved performance, e.g. better attack and sensitivity. This wasn't apparent until after we put the cabinets through physical testing - i.e. the acoustic modeling software wasn't 100% accurate in mapping the responses for this particular design. We'll be using the 21' subs in a new larger tapped-horn sub which we are currently designing now... Oscar - sure why not and a can of beer to go with it :) ------------- .:ELEMENT 5 SYSTEMS:. |
Posted By: Dub Specialist
Date Posted: 11 January 2012 at 2:23am
haha spot on must of the 4" VC gave it away...lol ------------- treat all creation with respect. For music is sound...sound is vibration...vibration is energy... and energy begets life. Therein lies my passion! MUSIC IS LIFE
|
Posted By: RosscoPico
Date Posted: 11 January 2012 at 4:56pm
|
Here's a photo of the 21" B&C which I'd taken a picture of at the Plasa Show (just before a security guard came over and politely told me off for using my camera there...lol!) Looks like a nice woofer;
------------- .:ELEMENT 5 SYSTEMS:. |
Posted By: rich_gale
Date Posted: 11 January 2012 at 5:19pm
The first British looking driver i have seen for a long time. look at those machined lumps. beautiful ------------- REFLEX ALL THE WAY.... (however, im playing with horns again...) That ok Mister Valiant? :) |
Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 11 January 2012 at 5:23pm
I believe cog is using some of these? |
Posted By: RosscoPico
Date Posted: 11 January 2012 at 5:27pm
|
Sorry, who's Cog? I don't know of a member by that name. ------------- .:ELEMENT 5 SYSTEMS:. |
Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 11 January 2012 at 5:32pm
Ha, sorry, stupid autocorrect business there. I typed 'csg' originally. |
Posted By: RosscoPico
Date Posted: 11 January 2012 at 5:36pm
|
Ah I see - I wasn't sure if you meant Rog but there we go.. ..but I guess they're both connected to Void - so you mean in those new infra-subs he now has? ------------- .:ELEMENT 5 SYSTEMS:. |
Posted By: SamV
Date Posted: 16 January 2012 at 9:52pm
One of the drivers we're playing with:  True 12" Cone 5" Voice Coil 96db @ 1w 1000wrms Neo Magnet Structure Shit loads of heatsinks Shit loads of vents Designed in the UK, apparently built here too. One thing I can say, it's having sex LOUD and sounds great too! Oh an it's a mid driver lol. It'll do 60-1.5k quite happily all day long with no nasty peaks! |
Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 16 January 2012 at 10:05pm
close - the drivers in the arcline infra's are the big brother of that b&c - neo, but over 20kg each....6 inch coil, that pic looks like the smaller one with the 4.5" coil ------------- “The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better” |
Posted By: RosscoPico
Date Posted: 16 January 2012 at 10:09pm
|
Interesting woofer Sam - I haven't got a clue what it is! 5" voice coil - very nice, and good sensitivity for the power rating.... ...so what on earth is it then?! (I can't even try to guess....lol) ------------- .:ELEMENT 5 SYSTEMS:. |
Posted By: SamV
Date Posted: 16 January 2012 at 10:16pm
| Let's see if anyone guesses first :) |
Posted By: Adam_Iron_Horse
Date Posted: 16 January 2012 at 10:17pm
|
For some reason I wanna say Faital pro and i have absolutely no idea why... Every driver iv seen by them seems to have funky designs... probably totally wrong though... |
Posted By: RosscoPico
Date Posted: 16 January 2012 at 10:21pm
The 21SW152 is of course the bigger model with the 6" VC, but that weighs 18.5Kgs....so what 21" B&C driver weighs over 20Kgs or is it OEM? SamV - haha, I didn't think you would give the game away that easily(!) Adam - I'd be very surprised if it were a Faital, but lets wait and see eh...
------------- .:ELEMENT 5 SYSTEMS:. |
Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 16 January 2012 at 10:46pm
Faital are Italian, not British. |
Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 16 January 2012 at 10:47pm
|
sorry, my mistake, it will be 18.5Kg, 20kg is the shipping weight. It is an OEM unit though, different coil from the stock driver, but as far as i am aware, the magnet is standard. ------------- “The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better” |
Posted By: RosscoPico
Date Posted: 17 January 2012 at 12:19pm
|
Sure, I guess with 8ohm coils eh! IIRC, they also used to do a 21SW150 driver which still had a 6" VC but with a lower 1500W AES. ------------- .:ELEMENT 5 SYSTEMS:. |
Posted By: Adam_Iron_Horse
Date Posted: 17 January 2012 at 11:31pm
My bad didn't see that... |
Posted By: RAGING PROMOTIONS
Date Posted: 18 January 2012 at 10:15pm
|
got 8 of these http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/708/38873420740728517735228.jpg/" rel="nofollow">  jake ------------- 8X Turbosound TSW-721's and 4X TFL-760Ht's |
Posted By: SamV
Date Posted: 22 January 2012 at 12:57am
| Lucky bastid. Poor back. |
Posted By: andycw
Date Posted: 22 January 2012 at 1:16am
|
Posted By: Dub Specialist
Date Posted: 22 January 2012 at 1:28am
|
Heftiest Woofer
love to the size of the scoop to load this in
 ------------- treat all creation with respect. For music is sound...sound is vibration...vibration is energy... and energy begets life. Therein lies my passion! MUSIC IS LIFE
|
Posted By: IanD
Date Posted: 22 January 2012 at 1:09pm
|
Photoshop jobbie or wooden fake? Take your pick... (looks like a PD.8050, estimated weight 2 tons...) |
Posted By: AJordan
Date Posted: 22 January 2012 at 1:12pm
| Photoshop |
Posted By: RosscoPico
Date Posted: 22 January 2012 at 1:20pm
That'd be perfect for loading into one of these (may need scaling up a bit...) ------------- .:ELEMENT 5 SYSTEMS:. |
Posted By: TechnoChef
Date Posted: 22 January 2012 at 2:42pm
What in the holy hell are they being used for? Party on the other side of the lake? (or loch/mere/water/etc.) |
Posted By: RosscoPico
Date Posted: 22 January 2012 at 2:52pm
|
It was designed to protect salmon in the fjord and piss off a mining company from a safe distance http://ratkje.no/current-projects/desibel-the-worlds-largest-mobile-horn-system/" rel="nofollow - http://ratkje.no/current-projects/desibel-the-worlds-largest-mobile-horn-system/ I know this isn't the show off your heftiest horn thread, but excuse me for showing you another one which is used for different purposes...  ------------- .:ELEMENT 5 SYSTEMS:. |
Posted By: RosscoPico
Date Posted: 24 January 2012 at 7:35am
So nobody has managed to guess it, are you willing to tell us yet mr V.?! ------------- .:ELEMENT 5 SYSTEMS:. |