"Polar Bear" Scoop build
Printed From: Speakerplans.com
Category: Plans
Forum Name: New Projects Forum
Forum Description: Forum for new speakerplans projects, in memory of Tony Wilkes, 1953 - 2014
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=40313
Printed Date: 16 April 2024 at 11:53am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.06 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: "Polar Bear" Scoop build
Posted By: pfly
Subject: "Polar Bear" Scoop build
Date Posted: 19 June 2010 at 11:00pm
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As some of you may remember, late last year I designed and built two scoops of my own. My friends decided the model is called Polar Bear due to it being perhaps the northernmost scoop design ever. Yesterday we started building two more. Today's task was to take it slow and put one together without glue, just to see how everything aligns out. Tomorrow we're going to take it apart, add the missing stuff (dog leg...) and hopefully get both ready for painting. There are going to be two connector panels, another with 2x NL4 and another with 2x NL8. We have two V18-1000s waiting to be loaded. For these two we decided to cut all side panels ("roof" and "floor" included) 18mm too deep to get a small lip to the back to improve the grip when grabbing underneath the bin while taking it up some steep stairs or in any other situation where there may be need for more than two pairs of hands carrying it. The lip doesn't make it any deeper because there are still casters beneath, making the actual full depth quite a bit more than what the box in itself is.     BTW the Makita impact screwdriver is a lovely tool to work with! Highly recommended. |
Replies:
Posted By: Sinfinity
Date Posted: 20 June 2010 at 12:04am
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Build is looking good. +1 on the makita l ion impact driver. ------------- Matt at ukamp dot co dot uk |
Posted By: Saul
Date Posted: 20 June 2010 at 1:07am
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makita impact drivers are brilliant |
Posted By: djstefanos
Date Posted: 20 June 2010 at 7:50am
+1 Makita, woodwork & the bush on that calendar. LOOOOL ------------- system: 20 x MA W8L 12 x MA W8LC 12 x MA W8LM 20 x MA S-218 8 x D.A.S. ST-112 |
Posted By: mykey-
Date Posted: 20 June 2010 at 9:27am
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what about the rubber dildo hanging on the window frame? looking good, big rear chamber there? ------------- BbbBBRAAAAPppBBBBbgushhhhhhhhssshhhhhGrAbRAAAAAAPPPPPp = Dubstep |
Posted By: pfly
Date Posted: 20 June 2010 at 9:39am
| Nnope, actually quite small, mostly because of the "extended" dogleg / triangle which moves the throat really near to the front of the chamber. We forgot to put in in there while dry-building this. |
Posted By: mykey-
Date Posted: 20 June 2010 at 9:42am
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own up! who had a look? lol
------------- BbbBBRAAAAPppBBBBbgushhhhhhhhssshhhhhGrAbRAAAAAAPPPPPp = Dubstep |
Posted By: pfly
Date Posted: 21 June 2010 at 12:39am
  First bins with mouth bracing. Also first bins that we built without having to rush them to a gig next day, so I guess one thing leads to another (not building so quickly leads to better build quality etc.) We really should add bracing to other boxes too, though. btw these pictures were taken between 9 and 10 pm this evening  |
Posted By: pfly
Date Posted: 05 July 2010 at 5:30pm
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Updates: As I'm still located in Shanghai, sound system co-owner sent me pictures of our Polar Bears, now almost finished. Finally we have something that could be considered as "whole", though 1850s are wrong cabs for midbass job. Older scoops are going to have mouth bracing as well and all old cabs are going to have a coat or two of Warnex. We are also going to have some proper square grilles for the drivers. Big thanks go to my friends and co-owners making all this sillynes possible. Next move will be something completely different, first step may be getting rid of the 1850s (can I see two more scoops coming up...?) and building USBs to go in the middle, if I don't feel like finishing my 8643 hybrid's 2x12" version. The mighty V18-1000:  Mouth bracing, FINALLY  The stack, missing two midtops in here:  |
Posted By: JR.junior
Date Posted: 05 July 2010 at 6:23pm
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Great! ------------- Support the scoop technology, larger mouth plays louder! |
Posted By: Nitz V1505
Date Posted: 05 July 2010 at 9:02pm
Nice looking stack mate!!!!! ------------- LET THE BASS ROLL LIKE THUNDER & THE TOPS LIKE LIGHTNING..... |
Posted By: pfly
Date Posted: 13 July 2010 at 10:44am
Waiting for grilles:  |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 13 July 2010 at 1:36pm
Nice pics,  How do they sound? ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
pfly wrote:Posted By: pfly
Date Posted: 13 July 2010 at 2:40pm
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Well, I really cannot comment on how they sound compared to other scoops as I haven't heard any other than what was in last Notting Hill Carnival (A.S.S was in different league compared to others, missed Aba Shanti I though). I think they really need a bit of EQing around 40-60hz area, that is if I really really want that same "flavour" and warmth as Kayak had with his ASS float. Of course these sound well heavy without EQ too. They are definitely on a par with 1850 horn what it comes to sensitivity. We are driving both with same amplifiers and both are loaded with V18, so easy comparison. We use these for 30-70hz and 1850 from 70 to 120, we may push them to 130 or 140hz at some point just for fun. What do you consider as large / medium / small chamber in scoops, Lev? These ones have around 60 liter chamber |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 13 July 2010 at 3:04pm
IMHO, would class small chamber as <55L, 55-65L as Medium Chamber, and >65L as large chamber. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: JR.junior
Date Posted: 13 July 2010 at 3:17pm
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ASS S118 has around 53L - small chamber. around 60 is medium, around 70 is large. To calculate chamber volume, I need inner width (600mm?), distance for inner baffle and throat oppening.------------- Support the scoop technology, larger mouth plays louder! |
Posted By: pfly
Date Posted: 13 July 2010 at 3:52pm
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JR I've already done that. Actually 60 liter was with driver. It is 71 liters without driver  |
Posted By: JR.junior
Date Posted: 13 July 2010 at 4:55pm
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HR plots? ;) ------------- Support the scoop technology, larger mouth plays louder! |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 13 July 2010 at 5:02pm
Driver with larger Vas than V18-1000, would really make use of that larger chamber. However, would also need min BL=25/Xmax=12, Think you should try one of these in there... http://forum.speakerplans.com/2x-18-turbomax-1000-drivers-fane-chassis_topic41060.html - http://forum.speakerplans.com/2x-18-turbomax-1000-drivers-fane-chassis_topic41060.html ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: pfly
Date Posted: 13 July 2010 at 5:41pm
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I'm thinking more of these: http://bmsspeakers.com/cone-speaker-compression-driver/bms-neodymium-cone-speakers/bms-neodymium-cone-extended-low/bms-18n860-neodymium-woofer/18n860-woofer-t-s-parameters/ - http://bmsspeakers.com/cone-speaker-compression-driver/bms-neodymium-cone-speakers/bms-neodymium-cone-extended-low/bms-18n860-neodymium-woofer/18n860-woofer-t-s-parameters/  back to V18-1000: 2pi / 2,83v  0,5pi / 2,83v  |
Posted By: JR.junior
Date Posted: 13 July 2010 at 6:04pm
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18N860; realy slow dynamik speaker. EPB 62, Qts 0,37 Mms 277g, this is not good horn driver, great for BR.. ------------- Support the scoop technology, larger mouth plays louder! |
Posted By: pfly
Date Posted: 13 July 2010 at 6:11pm
Just check out what 18N850 does in Hogs  Tony Wilkes tested two with Smithers' Hogs I believe. ...On the other hand you are kind of right, but then again scoop isn't the most typical horn. My guess is that 18N860 has large enough VAS and just enough of BL to work in there, it sims a bit poorer than V18-1000 though. It would be really interesting to compare 18N850, 18N860 and V18-1000 in my scoop |
Posted By: JR.junior
Date Posted: 13 July 2010 at 6:14pm
I have to, it's much better driver.  ------------- Support the scoop technology, larger mouth plays louder! |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 13 July 2010 at 6:57pm
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Sims only tell you half the story, and are often very optimistic. From 1st hand experience, can tell you Turbomax 1000/Fane 18-1000 sounds better than PD 1850/V18-1000 in all the medium chamber scoops I have heard. They are basically more musical/flatter response. With true Xmax evidenced, by smooth sound, even at high power with plenty of Eq. The very expensive B&C Neo was a joke compared to the above. If new/used Neos provided same price performance ratio as Turbomax 1000/Fane 18-1000, would definetly be more interested iin them. EDIT:Compared to the weight of PD1850, the Turbomax is a Neo. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 13 July 2010 at 7:07pm
| But by your definitions this is a large chamber scoop and pfly is talking about a BMS neo driver, not a B&C. |
Posted By: pfly
Date Posted: 13 July 2010 at 7:10pm
| I'm not about Nd in this but I honestly believe that BMS 18N860 is one of the very very very top sub drivers today, regardless of magnet material. Like all drivers, it won't suit every loading technique, but general quality and performance should be top notch. |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 13 July 2010 at 8:03pm
Typically, drivers suited to scoops fall into 2x categories, those perfect for small chambers and the rest. So you are more likely to hear about small or medium chamber scoop drivers. Mentioned B&C, as that is also a Neo that on paper/Sims seemed to excel, however actual performance in scoop was very dissappointing. Point being, time has shown, simming Neo drivers in scoops, is "often" pointless, proof being in actual listening, as opposed to simming ferrite drivers, you will often get mostly accurate approximation, of real world results. ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: Saul
Date Posted: 13 July 2010 at 10:18pm
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to be honest i'd ignore Hornresponse altogether. it is unable to really tell how it is going to sound. the best example being: sim a Turbomax 1800 in a medium/small scoop and the sims say it would be awesome, but we all know these drivers need more than a big chamber, so it seems, otherwise they sound like a bag of spanners. i can only think of 2 common drivers that truly work in tiny chambers with 10+mm xmax, thats the PD1850 and the V18-1000. btw those scoops look cool - did you leave the lip around the rear of the box to provide a handle all the way round for when it's on castors?
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Posted By: Nitz V1505
Date Posted: 14 July 2010 at 12:53pm
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I like the look of this scoop , just look how deep the fcuker is!!!!!!!! ------------- LET THE BASS ROLL LIKE THUNDER & THE TOPS LIKE LIGHTNING..... |
Posted By: Tony Wilkes
Date Posted: 14 July 2010 at 1:10pm
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I personally would not use the 860's in anything but a large BR when you need its ability to go very low, Cinema Subs etc. However in large chamber Scoops the 850v2 works very well. No idea how it compares to the Tmax etc etc never compared them, only with the Void 1200,s. Maybe do a comparison one day. Tony |
Posted By: pfly
Date Posted: 26 April 2011 at 2:08pm
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bump. I just wanted to update latest measurements here to accompany other information about these unfiltered in venue response  30hz 48dB HPF & 80hz 48dB LPF  |
Posted By: pfly
Date Posted: 01 August 2011 at 9:58pm
another measurement bump, this time outside, with 2nd and 3rd harmonics. For many reasons this is much more accurate than earlier |
Posted By: Lee In Montreal
Date Posted: 02 August 2011 at 3:32pm
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The response measurements posted above are impressive as very few scoops will go below 40Hz. 30Hz is quite an achievement. Was the scoop placed in a corner when the measurement was made? Lee |
Posted By: pfly
Date Posted: 02 August 2011 at 5:02pm
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All measurements done with a stack of four. Indoor measurement was done near back wall. Low-ish ceiling. I'm more impressed with the distortion figures. I think these things sound phenomenal. They are definitely sub box with little "kick" available, but in 30-80hz range they sound fast, precise, warm and smooth. Not as "clinical" as Lab, but still there is plenty of detail that for example Meyer 700HP wouldn't reveal. Also I can give them everything that Infinite 5 bridged per pair can give and they don't show any sign of stress what so ever. |
Posted By: Venny
Date Posted: 17 November 2012 at 5:10am
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Broken image links, any chance of a re-upload?
------------- Predominant Culture Sound System - Roots and Culture |
Posted By: 01jordand
Date Posted: 12 August 2013 at 6:41pm
| would like to see those images as well if thats possible... |
Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 12 August 2013 at 6:56pm
Good pre amp on that, all good. ------------- Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing. |
Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 12 August 2013 at 11:05pm
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Ha, I know at least one happy soundman reading this who fully agrees with you Lev
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Posted By: revast
Date Posted: 30 June 2015 at 10:20am
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@pfly Thanks for doing the polar bear scoop! We are a collective of dub enthusiasts from Graz, Austria, and are very interested in it. We have talked with Dub Smugglers Soundsystem, they also have build Your design. Buildphase-photos are available at their Facebook account: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150996514247223.482590.128547807222&=3 Among the many photos which you can also find there:        So Dub Smugglers (& propably others -tell us!) already have fun  , we are in the planning phase right now. As this is our first build, we eagerly try to look at every detail and try to speak with as many people as possible to get it right. As your original image uploads of the plan are offline, we would kindly ask If you (or, please, anybody else who would have them) could fix that, as well as we would be very curious if there were some improvements made to the design since the last 5 years. We plan to use a 5axis CNC machine to cut the scoop(s), so we would like to work as thoroughly as possible. If you would find some flaws in our plans, please tell us. I think that I can also speak for Dub Smugglers when we say thank you for designing such a wonderful scoop. |
Posted By: Sinai Sound
Date Posted: 30 June 2015 at 1:56pm
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Dub Smugglers didn't design them And they also aren't the only sound with them
ahem cough cough |
Posted By: revast
Date Posted: 30 June 2015 at 6:08pm
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Well, I never said so. You've to read it again... We met Dub Smugglers in Vienna, at a dance of botheration HIFI, where we also played. This is where the contact comes from, and they brought our attention to this design. And then I browsed their fb page and I found lots pictures of Polar Bears ;-) Still, I am curious to get to talk with pfly, as he's the one behind the design; This, the fact that the original plans are offline, and that we want to share & get more infos, is the motivation of my post. By no means would I have posted just these Photos if I would have I found more:   more photos & detailed info is more than welcome . |
Posted By: paulus
Date Posted: 30 June 2015 at 8:11pm
Been hereing good reports about the polar 52 loaded, is a big old scoop but if it performs so be it , do like that throat arrange ment means big chamber but can controll it , great design by pfly there  ------------- TRENDSETTER SOUND SYSTEM |
Posted By: goliath
Date Posted: 01 July 2015 at 7:21am
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Was really impressed when I heard this scoop, it doesn't have massive spl but sounded very deep and I like that. Much preferred these to the steve b's when I heard them together at the Dub Cub Warrior clash. ------------- PBS AUDIO Please don't message me on here as I'm not on here that much these days. contact on FaceBook https://www.facebook.com/sam.seekings.5 Speaker Box Builders |
Posted By: pfly
Date Posted: 01 July 2015 at 8:49am
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Nice to hear positive comments! Less nice is to see my plans being spread openly. This far I have pretty much willingly shared plans to whoever asks me. I'd like to at least pretend that I have some kind of control over these plans. Oh well, beans are spilled now. No way reversing it. |
Posted By: Sinai Sound
Date Posted: 01 July 2015 at 9:02am
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All credit due to Mr Pfly Polar bear + PD1852 + K20 = amazing Was only running on 3 scoops most of the night at the warrior clash, I managed to blow a PD1850 fairly early on - was a non genuine recone. Strange how the other 3 genuine coned ones continued to work.......but that's a whole other topic
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Posted By: paulus
Date Posted: 01 July 2015 at 9:19am
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Must have a listen Mr Sinai , also amazing how many sounds now going over to the powersofts, seen pic aba the other day with 3 in rack, tho these 52s do take some running must be over 10 sounds off top of head who are running the k20 now heard k10 and was just regular so seems the 20 is the one to go for ------------- TRENDSETTER SOUND SYSTEM |
Posted By: revast
Date Posted: 01 July 2015 at 9:38am
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Would have been nice to tell that in first post of that thread that you would have wanted control of your plans... Well... so far so good. Apologies are to be made from our side. If you wish, We can take things down - It's your design after all. So it is only fair to follow your policy. That is, if you like us to, we also do not share plans publicly in first place, but if somebody asks, we share. As you wish. |
Posted By: Sinai Sound
Date Posted: 01 July 2015 at 9:45am
I've tried the inf8 with the PD1852 a few times, and whilst having a great tonality, the drivers can take more than it can give Inf8 not having enough power! madness :) There's quite a few big sounds that have heard the difference and have made the move I was pushing 6k peaks if not more at the weekend into 4 scoops, and it was only pulling 10a at most The efficiency is incredible We ran 6 x SBH a SIDE off the K20 the other weekend, which was equally ridiculous |
Posted By: pfly
Date Posted: 01 July 2015 at 10:08am
Damage is already done, no way fixing it now  TBH it is not THAT big issue for me.I tried PMing you but failed to notice you only have 5 posts... But if you don't mind, take the links away anyway. |
Posted By: revast
Date Posted: 01 July 2015 at 10:25am
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ok, done. Looks like I gonna have to collect some points... |
Posted By: paulus
Date Posted: 01 July 2015 at 10:34am
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Great stuff. Witnessed same on the big old crest 9001 clipping away on 52/51no more power to give and like you say drivers got way more to give.yeah void running out of power is mad tho few say iration having same problem as well with new drivers.only reason not changing drivers really as can not run to a k20 ha ha so will stick with the void for now. Regularly haveit to 16 -19 amps tho feel 1850 pretty much at limits there. Yeah amazing efficiency on the power soft from what you describe. ------------- TRENDSETTER SOUND SYSTEM |
Posted By: levantemassive
Date Posted: 12 March 2016 at 8:37am
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Greetings everyone is it possible to get the plans? Anyone can PM them please? Also, what drivers suit well for this particular design? everyone is talking about the 1852 of course, but I'm looking at a less expensive solution, like 18LW1400. Standard parameters for scoop suitable drivers are ok or should I look for something in particular? THX
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Posted By: PavelP
Date Posted: 13 March 2016 at 9:17pm
| http://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=40313&PID=415837&title=polar-bear-scoop-build#415837 |
Posted By: levantemassive
Date Posted: 14 March 2016 at 3:32pm
Thanks PavelP, but there are at least 2 measures missing-the ones in yellow! Also, can't find the width & indications on bracings & mitre angles. Would someone be so kind to send me the complete plan if it's still available, I read the thread..
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Posted By: pfly
Date Posted: 14 March 2016 at 6:25pm
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I know this is now kind of late to ask but I would not like this to be public domain stuff. Not for now at least. |
Posted By: levantemassive
Date Posted: 14 March 2016 at 6:43pm
thx pfly, finally the answer to my question. Guess I'll try Super Scoopers as the plans are available. |
Posted By: pfly
Date Posted: 14 March 2016 at 6:51pm
I'm sorry but for now I need to figure what I'm going to do with this box. Am I getting greedy, eh? Not really, everyone knows there's no real money in scoop building  |
Posted By: levantemassive
Date Posted: 14 March 2016 at 7:12pm
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Easy, no need to apologize. Your intellectual property, your decision about the availability of the plan! |
Posted By: KidCreole
Date Posted: 14 March 2016 at 11:08pm
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It's a scoop chaps no magic in it. Just some guys who know their sh-t when using scoops ------------- Mykey Wattco |
Posted By: Father-Francis
Date Posted: 15 March 2016 at 6:34am
on can never overstand this scoop biz , ------------- Music is the strongest form of magic.(+45 31879997)blakmanpro@gmail.com, foa@sweetboxaudio.dk |
Posted By: Darkwing_Dub
Date Posted: 07 September 2016 at 5:08pm
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Respect to pfly for designing this great scoop, hope to read you soon! Bigups to Sinai for doing it the proper way, you guys really push the culture! |
Posted By: Darkwing_Dub
Date Posted: 08 September 2016 at 11:20am
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Anyone who like to get in Contact => PM doesnt work with my profile, seems i need more posts ;) as mentioned before you can hit me up via mail or facebook |
Posted By: bob4
Date Posted: 08 September 2016 at 11:34am
what's the purpose of these invitations? What do you exactly hope to discuss? Why not have a public discussion right here? Your posts are a little bit confusing....... |
Posted By: Darkwing_Dub
Date Posted: 08 September 2016 at 11:55am
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oh sorry... didnt explain this someone tried to PM me but i can not receive it... thats why i gave this options of mail and fb |
Posted By: Sinai Sound
Date Posted: 08 September 2016 at 6:10pm
Aww thanks! Addicted to this design! Should have 12 within a few months....  |
Posted By: pfly
Date Posted: 08 September 2016 at 11:27pm
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That is looking proper. I'm glad you guys are enjoying this box. Only thing this box needs is some 2-6dB cut around 80Hz, depending on taste. As this peak is close to where most users would LPF these anyway, alternatively users can leave a small gap into the crossover or just cross these electronically lower to filter the excess energy out. |
Posted By: bob4
Date Posted: 10 September 2016 at 8:20am
Don't worry, keep posting... Very nice build by the way!
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Posted By: Jake_Fielder
Date Posted: 02 November 2016 at 2:28pm
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Looks good! are the plans available? and could i have a link or pm of them please! |
Posted By: luton_soundman
Date Posted: 02 November 2016 at 2:43pm
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I find it strange and equally interesting that people struggle to power their drivers with inf8? Too many occasions we've had the power to destroy 51/52 Tmax1500 and more. EDIT: 52 sounds warmer than 50. Handles more power better on the lows. Id expect a better sound, more pressure nicer lows. Instead i haven't heard that yet with polar 52. Sam i prefer the 1850 scoop you built compared to what ive heard from polar. Also quite alot more boxes infront of the polar from what ive heard. But too many variables ie how they been set up whos operating etc. I can only comment on what ive heard from them and not what i have got out of them as i havnt played them yet. ------------- Sound Hire/Sales new/used equipment. |
Posted By: Jake_Fielder
Date Posted: 07 November 2016 at 4:37pm
| Are plans available for this? |
Posted By: bob4
Date Posted: 07 November 2016 at 4:44pm
have you read this thread? Do you know the name of the designer? if so, why don't YOU PM him? why should he take the trouble to send you the plan if he has expressly stated (in this very thread!!!) he doesn't want to share the plan atm?  |
Posted By: interweb
Date Posted: 28 November 2016 at 4:01am
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Yeah Jake, stop being an asshole Get in touch bro, i'm building again too. Loonie |
Posted By: Redlaz
Date Posted: 22 May 2021 at 2:44pm
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Searching for polar bear plans. Doest someone know how i could contact pfly ?
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Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 24 May 2021 at 9:37am
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Yes, I still keep contact with him offline. Where are you based? There’s a licensed set of builders for the UK and a part of Europe, I believe. It also seems some well made ones are up for sale at the moment on this very forum. |
Posted By: medi.root
Date Posted: 31 January 2022 at 6:43pm
where could i find a plan from the polar bear scoop? |
Posted By: WaveLength
Date Posted: 04 September 2023 at 4:09pm
Hello Is there any chance to get the Polar bear Plan? please 🙏
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Posted By: Fūjin-Audio
Date Posted: 06 February 2024 at 10:46pm
| wondered if there was still any chance of getting the plans sent over privately (if anyone had a copy) in a read only format or such. I am located in japan and do not have the budget to go about in ordering and shipping these from europe. |