12" kick bin
Printed From: Speakerplans.com
Category: Plans
Forum Name: Other plans
Forum Description: Discussion / Questions about all the other plans
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=41674
Printed Date: 27 March 2026 at 2:15am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.08 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: 12" kick bin
Posted By: enpe
Subject: 12" kick bin
Date Posted: 30 July 2010 at 9:16am
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hello everybody, was wonderin if any one can help me with some small 12" kick bin plans? i want to incorporate into a midrange box so the smaller the better
thanks alot
jake
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Replies:
Posted By: SebP
Date Posted: 31 July 2010 at 4:59am
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http://hornplans.free.fr/mkb230.html - http://hornplans.free.fr/mkb230.html It's a double Kick Bin , but you can easily transform to single. |
Posted By: asaa00
Date Posted: 31 July 2010 at 7:43am
I was looking at this.. has anyone heard this? ------------- http://soundcloud.com/asaa - My Studio Productions |
SebP wrote:Posted By: vzummer
Date Posted: 12 September 2010 at 5:02pm
same question, any comments on the sound?.. |
Posted By: _djk_
Date Posted: 12 September 2010 at 7:04pm
  Design by Bill Woods. ------------- djk |
Posted By: vzummer
Date Posted: 13 September 2010 at 9:46am
| the drawing doesn't match nor with the photo neither with MKB-230 ..... |
Posted By: _djk_
Date Posted: 13 September 2010 at 11:17am
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"the drawing doesn't match nor with the photo neither with MKB-230 ....." Of course not, it's a different design. The photo is the plan shown, plus corner reflectors. Overall depth is 20.75", inside width is 13.5" I'll wager you it will work much better than half of the MKB-230, and be much easier to construct too. ------------- djk |
Posted By: darkmatter
Date Posted: 13 September 2010 at 12:28pm
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DJK I've noticed you post that Bill Woods design before and it looks great. Interesting that it doesn't show any measured problems in the frequency response at 250Hz (1/4 wave of 250Hz is 13.5" / 34.29cm). Do you think it could be used up to 300Hz comfortably?
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Posted By: _djk_
Date Posted: 14 September 2010 at 12:10am
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It looks like it should be pretty good to 400hz, gets a bit 'crunchy' above there.
One could try adding a septum down the middle of the path, a fiberglass ceiling tile should work. ------------- djk |
Posted By: SebP
Date Posted: 14 September 2010 at 6:45am
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"I'll wager you it will work much better than half of the MKB-230" I don't think it will be better. MKB-230 seems to have an exponential horn with a wave guide like the martin cabinet. One MKB-230 eats two HD15 all the days, see the comparative sim between MKB and HD15 http://hornplans.free.fr/mkb230.html - http://hornplans.free.fr/mkb230.html |
Posted By: bitzo
Date Posted: 14 September 2010 at 8:46am
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there's also a visaton cab 2x12" with similar folding. and a doubled version of that 4x12"
------------- http://www.unitedroots.it - United Roots SoundSystem site |
Posted By: _djk_
Date Posted: 14 September 2010 at 2:39pm
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"I don't think it will be better. MKB-230 seems to have an exponential
horn with a wave guide like the martin cabinet. " Exponential horn? The talk was to build a half sized version, half the mouth area, a 6dB loss in the 100hz region. The Bill woods design has a hyperbolic mouth, much better for low frequencies, no huge cavity in front of the driver. I see no waveguide, a couple of dinky ramps after a huge rectangular cavity. "One MKB-230 eats two HD15 all the days, see the comparative sim between MKB and HD15" An absolutely poor example of a dual 15 cabinet.  A good example of a single vs a dual 15 cabinet (actually one in 2Pi vs 4Pi). "It's a double Kick Bin , but you can easily transform to single." Run a sim in 4Pi with only one driver, I think you will want something better. ------------- djk |
Posted By: darkmatter
Date Posted: 14 September 2010 at 3:17pm
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Thanks DJK. SebP - what do you mean by waveguide? I don't see one. Did you mean a martin style letterbox throat?
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Posted By: SebP
Date Posted: 15 September 2010 at 10:10am
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yes the letter box throat, it's a sort of waveguide. DJK, you said: "The Bill woods design has a hyperbolic mouth, much better for low frequencies, no huge cavity in front of the driver." Have you seen the WSX design? it is one of the best sub and it has the same throat than the MKB-230, your arguments aren't good. This letter box and guide allows tu goes higher. And we talk about a Kick Bin, not a bass design. But if you want to compare a kick bin with 2 drivers, you must adjust voltage to 2 volts (1w 4 ohms) and 1.414 volts for two cabinets (1w 2 ohms). |
Posted By: SebP
Date Posted: 15 September 2010 at 10:22am
I have the sim from the designer, so I've made the sim in your exact condition of two MK-230 4PI 2.83volts, here it is: There is near 1dB less sensitivity than your sim, but goes lower and higher, and is just 12", not 15". |
Posted By: mykey-
Date Posted: 15 September 2010 at 1:09pm
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2 x 15'' Neo loaded that I can carry on my shoulder and I always prefer a straight horn or single fold rather than multiple folds for kick cabs http://img185.imageshack.us/i/nanan.jpg/">  ------------- BbbBBRAAAAPppBBBBbgushhhhhhhhssshhhhhGrAbRAAAAAAPPPPPp = Dubstep |
Posted By: Teunos
Date Posted: 15 September 2010 at 6:17pm
6th order BPH? at least by the looks of the graph.
------------- Best regards, Teun. |
Posted By: darkmatter
Date Posted: 16 September 2010 at 12:22pm
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Could people please post input parameters rather than simply the SPL response curve? Interested to know whether for example the Bill Woods design is being modelled with the offset driver arrangement. Also, GD and excursion graphs are pretty important when determining real world behaviour and max output for these cabs. I think the arguments about which is better (mkb 230 or bill woods') may be a bit futile until it's clear what effect the bends in the horn really have on HF response as heard and measured with that specific design. Other factors may also be relevant, for example if using a light coned 12" would the shape of the throat in the MKB 230 cause stress to the cone? Is the snailshell esque folding of the Bill Woods design better for HF or will the careful attention paid to reflectors in the MKB 230 mean that design wins out? Modelling can't answer all of this.
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Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 16 September 2010 at 2:42pm
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Ive just built some 2 x 12" low mid cabs, same size as a punisher, kind of similar layout to the MKB230 but rather than stacking 2 high theres a left and right mirror, bit like a USB. Like darkmatter says the layout makes tons of difference, you have to minimize path length differences and reflections to get good upper extension. Splitting it up with braces can help.
------------- James Secker facebook.com/soundgearuk James@soundgear.co.uk www.soundgear.co.uk |
Posted By: Teunos
Date Posted: 14 October 2010 at 1:28pm
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Would still like to know what kind of cab yours is mykey. ------------- Best regards, Teun. |
Posted By: mykey-
Date Posted: 14 October 2010 at 3:50pm
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Band-pass horn forgot I put that up ------------- BbbBBRAAAAPppBBBBbgushhhhhhhhssshhhhhGrAbRAAAAAAPPPPPp = Dubstep |
Posted By: grec
Date Posted: 30 October 2010 at 12:12am
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could you place a picture? thank's |
Posted By: Keen
Date Posted: 18 August 2011 at 12:15pm
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djk, any advice on drivers for the Bill Woods plan? cheers |
Posted By: _djk_
Date Posted: 18 August 2011 at 10:13pm
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Pick the mass corner for the HF cut point.
The higher the mass corner, the higher the cabinet will go.
The higher the mass corner, the lower the x-max (limiting LF output).
So, pick a high mass corner, but no higher than you intend to cross the driver (don't use a 600hz mass corner driver if you plan to cross at 300hz).
With a good throat I can run a B&C 12PE32 up to 1Khz, and it has enough x-max for a 150hz cross on the low end. ------------- djk |
Posted By: Keen
Date Posted: 18 August 2011 at 10:31pm
| cheers |
Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 01 January 2015 at 10:22pm
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CHEERS! I have 4 pcs rcf 12lfn401 laying around agressive drivers for basshorn Please can you post some hornresp input then I want to sim it?
Just built a test 12" TH for one of these drivers, but I think the new fane 12xb will do better in this than the lf12n401, which on the other hand probably would be better in a flh ------------- www.facebook.com/babysoundsystem |