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Our new baby

Printed From: Speakerplans.com
Category: Plans
Forum Name: New Projects Forum
Forum Description: Forum for new speakerplans projects, in memory of Tony Wilkes, 1953 - 2014
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=50262
Printed Date: 20 April 2024 at 4:40pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.06 - https://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Our new baby
Posted By: Tony Wilkes
Subject: Our new baby
Date Posted: 24 March 2011 at 8:04am
Fresh from the glue stage. Quadruplets born yesterday. Faital 3" tuned to around 90hz, used 1 per side with a single 12" sub for solo performers or 2 per side with two subs.

Pretty good for home use as well Smile




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www.forteaudio.eu - BMS - db-Mark Processors - Lexon (SAE)



Replies:
Posted By: TheAmazingGanjaMan
Date Posted: 24 March 2011 at 9:43pm
very nice, just checked the drivers. any more pics! would love to see them loaded, will u be using anythin above them or do they sound ok up high?

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Burn Baby Burn Voice Coil Inferno


Posted By: Baron Greenback
Date Posted: 24 March 2011 at 9:52pm
Nice one Tony they are going to be sweet, you have just got to love laser cutters! just remember not to stare into the beam!

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The doctor recons I'm paranoid... well he didn't say it exactly, but I just knew the bastard was thinking it!


Posted By: Nachural
Date Posted: 24 March 2011 at 10:16pm
Tony, how do they sound in terms of HF extension? Plots look good on the faital website.

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it's all just cardboard and magnets really


Posted By: SamV
Date Posted: 24 March 2011 at 11:38pm
Why 3" Tony?


Posted By: Edd Jordan
Date Posted: 24 March 2011 at 11:49pm
thats awsome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! let me know how it sounds..

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I do a sideline in ply wood wheels.


Posted By: login4
Date Posted: 24 March 2011 at 11:52pm
ye im hopefully going to be using these drivers in my 12v mini rig so do tell, how do they sound?

ncie little  baby btw.


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CELTIC SUBSONIC SOUND SYSTEMS


Posted By: Tony Wilkes
Date Posted: 25 March 2011 at 6:54am
Why the 3" drivers?.  They are readily available at a reasonable price and do have the upper extension with high quality that is perfect for this type of job.

I am aiming for a X-over of around 180hz to the subs but they will probably need a bit of EQ nearing this point when in free air i.e. on poles. On wall brackets they should do much better.

Regarding the laser cut front plate, the drivers have to be rear loaded so not wanting a thick baffle the 3mm steel plate seemed ideal. The front plate and pre-wired driver assembly then just screws down on to battens. The front plate will be powder coated along with the rap-around grill.

Will try and load them later today and take a photo, up to my eyeballs in it at the moment, no excuses when the weathers this good!!

Tony

p.s. should work out slightly cheaper than the Bose "L1" system Wink


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www.forteaudio.eu - BMS - db-Mark Processors - Lexon (SAE)


Posted By: Tony Wilkes
Date Posted: 25 March 2011 at 11:14am
Do you think that I may have overdone the sub?




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www.forteaudio.eu - BMS - db-Mark Processors - Lexon (SAE)


Posted By: Nachural
Date Posted: 25 March 2011 at 11:29am
Jist looking at the Failal 4FE30 http://www.faitalpro.com/products/schede/fes.php?id=401005100 - http://www.faitalpro.com/products/schede/fes.php?id=401005100
it looks like a nice driver too.


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it's all just cardboard and magnets really


Posted By: hond
Date Posted: 25 March 2011 at 6:13pm
nah you never can overdo the sub :p


Posted By: jamwa
Date Posted: 25 March 2011 at 7:04pm
very nice simlar approach to how HK do there ellements range.
so are you making them so you can add more units above
 
if you make them so they are 16ohm you could allow for additional topboxes for greater coverage.
 
but very nice young man...


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Sound, Light, Projection, Display, Cameras and production support


Posted By: kevinmcdonough
Date Posted: 26 March 2011 at 3:52pm
Originally posted by Tony Wilkes Tony Wilkes wrote:

Do you think that I may have overdone the sub?







What are the subs, just reflex?  or is that a THAM?

LOL i bet with some sort of clever access panel you could transport at least one, maybe two, of the tops inside the sub and have a great super portable wee system LOL





Posted By: subbass
Date Posted: 26 March 2011 at 3:56pm
looks like martinssons design

looking forwards to building mine in the summer Thumbs Up


Posted By: Tony Wilkes
Date Posted: 26 March 2011 at 3:58pm
No its my own compact 18" tapped horn that takes the BMS 18N860!!!! Now this moves some serious air.

Tony

p.s. The Tham15 is much smaller.


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www.forteaudio.eu - BMS - db-Mark Processors - Lexon (SAE)


Posted By: subbass
Date Posted: 26 March 2011 at 4:09pm
Tongue nice

how low does it go? I take it xmax isnt so much an issue with those silly drivers


Posted By: Tony Wilkes
Date Posted: 26 March 2011 at 4:21pm
Not that low it measures flat to about 38hz and around -10 at 28hz. This is with a non calibrated mic so could be a bit different in real life. Have only tried it on a small amp at the moment with the cone moving around 2mm or so because of neighbour issues but you can tell it is going to be a monster.  Think compact hog Big smile
Usable up to around 125hz

As with the Tham15 the dip predicted in Hornresp is there but to a very small degree about half of the sim'd amount.

Sound quality is also nothing like a normal horn and is closer to what I expect from a reflex.

Tony

p.s. According to  Hornresp it should average 132db cont 40-100hz with around 135db at 40hz, thats the 860 for you.


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www.forteaudio.eu - BMS - db-Mark Processors - Lexon (SAE)


Posted By: kevinmcdonough
Date Posted: 26 March 2011 at 4:38pm
hey

Ahhh this'll be the one you mentioned before in an email when I was asking about the driver Smile I could tell straight away that was gonna be a monster, excursion has always been one of the main driver factors with a tapped horn and with 19mm it should be silly!

What are the external dimentions?  Hard to get a sense of scale from the diagram, hence why i thought it may have been a THAM.

k


Posted By: Ryan94
Date Posted: 30 March 2011 at 9:56pm
Hmmmmm, these could be great for a little 12v system. Will you be releasing plans?


Posted By: Tony Wilkes
Date Posted: 31 March 2011 at 8:17am
Originally posted by Ryan94 Ryan94 wrote:

Hmmmmm, these could be great for a little 12v system. Will you be releasing plans?


As soon as they have been fully tested in the real world I will get a PDF ready. Pretty simple design really though just 1L per driver.

If anyone wants to build them exactly as above then I could supply the laser cut baffles, powder coated, just p.m.for details.

Tony


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www.forteaudio.eu - BMS - db-Mark Processors - Lexon (SAE)


Posted By: Baron Greenback
Date Posted: 31 March 2011 at 8:54am
Fair play to you Tony you are a credit to the community good designs, and really helpful too! keep up the good work. Oh we should be hooking up the 4550's (5440'sWink) some time in the next few days as we have a pair of 15" tops constructed, will let you know how we get on, many thanks again for the comps and horns.

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The doctor recons I'm paranoid... well he didn't say it exactly, but I just knew the bastard was thinking it!


Posted By: Tony Wilkes
Date Posted: 31 March 2011 at 2:57pm
Originally posted by Baron Greenback Baron Greenback wrote:

Fair play to you Tony you are a credit to the community good designs, and really helpful too! keep up the good work. Oh we should be hooking up the 4550's (5440'sWink) some time in the next few days as we have a pair of 15" tops constructed, will let you know how we get on, many thanks again for the comps and horns.


OK mate. On those horns try 1K 24db LR should work just fine. If you want the response checked just let me know and I will pop over with the measuring gear. Cost you a pint though :).

Tony


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www.forteaudio.eu - BMS - db-Mark Processors - Lexon (SAE)


Posted By: Baron Greenback
Date Posted: 31 March 2011 at 3:43pm
Cheers for the offer man, but I think that we have the gear to take measurements (really new to this) I have an M-audio soundcard with XLR inputs, an RTA mic, and a copy of true RTA on the laptop, would that suffice? although as far as the procedure is concerned it does look like I have some reading to do, although if you want to come over and show me that would be sound, and as far as the pint is concerened, I will buy you two!Smile

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The doctor recons I'm paranoid... well he didn't say it exactly, but I just knew the bastard was thinking it!


Posted By: Teunos
Date Posted: 31 March 2011 at 6:12pm
measurement mics always need phantom power, i don't think your sound card will be able to supply that to your mic. Cheap fix would be the behringer PS400.



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Best regards,
Teun.


Posted By: Ryan94
Date Posted: 31 March 2011 at 6:31pm
Cheers for the reply tony, great project, might well have to build a pair in the summer. How much does the 3" driver cost?

Ryan


Posted By: Baron Greenback
Date Posted: 31 March 2011 at 8:09pm
Originally posted by Teunos Teunos wrote:

measurement mics always need phantom power, i don't think your sound card will be able to supply that to your mic. Cheap fix would be the behringer PS400.

No mate it's all good, the soundcard is an M-Audio FW410 (firewire) and it does have phantom power... Yey... something that I do not have to chuck more money at... I thought the day would never come... but if you would come down and go through the procedure with me at some point I would very much appreciate it, cheers.

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The doctor recons I'm paranoid... well he didn't say it exactly, but I just knew the bastard was thinking it!


Posted By: Tony Wilkes
Date Posted: 10 April 2011 at 7:20pm
Took longer than expected due to other projects,




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www.forteaudio.eu - BMS - db-Mark Processors - Lexon (SAE)


Posted By: Teunos
Date Posted: 10 April 2011 at 8:59pm
Originally posted by Baron Greenback Baron Greenback wrote:

Originally posted by Teunos Teunos wrote:

measurement mics always need phantom power, i don't think your sound card will be able to supply that to your mic. Cheap fix would be the behringer PS400.

No mate it's all good, the soundcard is an M-Audio FW410 (firewire) and it does have phantom power... Yey... something that I do not have to chuck more money at... I thought the day would never come... but if you would come down and go through the procedure with me at some point I would very much appreciate it, cheers.
Going a little off-topic here, sorry Tony. Nice soundcard, and i'd love to stop for a chat and a listen to help you along, but my location isn't very optimalWink.


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Best regards,
Teun.


Posted By: Tony Wilkes
Date Posted: 13 April 2011 at 9:15am
OK new baby had its first day out yesterday to meet his Uncle Steve_B for a play on his Smaart machine, let him ride on top of a tame 12" sub and was really very happy with his progress.

After a few tweaks they managed 40-16000 pretty flat in a very civilised style with a X-over at 200hz.

Gonna work on getting him a brother now and have arranged to have another day out in a pub type environment where his Aunty Lynn is going to sing and play guitar for them and a few of his pissed-up playmates.

This is what he drew when we gave him some crayons, crayons and paper courtesy of Steve_B

No EQ on the Sub by the way.



More later

Tony


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www.forteaudio.eu - BMS - db-Mark Processors - Lexon (SAE)


Posted By: Steve_B
Date Posted: 13 April 2011 at 5:16pm

Uncle Steve here, to add a little to what the proud dad has already mentioned.

The set up and measurement that produced the above graph was done very quickly and could, depending on taste and time, be tweaked a little more. The amount of eq applied was minimal, Just three bands used. Two were very gentle with Qs of about 0.4. One to pull down a small lump centred around 2KHz and the other to compensate for a slight roll off below 400Hz. The only narrow bandwidth filter was to tame the peak at 10KHz. With no mics involved the original 10K peak might provide a little zing that some may like, but in live situations I always consider such peaks to be tempting fate re: feedback. For a mainly speech system the natural response could improve intelligibility.

For speed of set up (The cab was fitted with a 20mm threaded stand adapter which I didn’t have handy) the cab was placed on top of step ladders with the sub directly underneath. As such it represents closely a typical sub with pole mount positioning the little cab about 1.2m above the sub (single 12” bms reflex loaded)

The measurement mic was on axis between the two centre drive units. With this set up the phase alignment between the sub and mid/tops was achieved by simply flipping the polarity on the sub. No delay was used. Obviously for absolute phase on the kick the phase could be reversed on the mid/tops not the sub. That’s the thing with phase it is relative. The alignment without recourse to delay means that using a simple analogue crossover would be possible. With more time I would explore a variety of different cross-over slopes, mainly to look at how lower order filters would work with a view to using passive cross-overs. Last night was to give an idea how they worked with the 12” sub and the result was positive.

A quick,” that looks about 45 degrees off axis”, showed a gradual roll off in response above 8KHz.

For small, acoustic, vocal type applications this has potential for the basis of a simple system.


Posted By: SamV
Date Posted: 13 April 2011 at 5:48pm
Mmm I dunno Tony, I'm an avid fan of your design and style but 3" still seems wrong to me! Though I'm always open to be proven wrong.


Posted By: B.P.Sound
Date Posted: 13 April 2011 at 8:27pm
Goliath please call me 07748 655 731 and empty PM's
http://forum.speakerplans.com/goliath-empty-inbox-ref-turbo-xbs_topic51034.html - http://forum.speakerplans.com/goliath-empty-inbox-ref-turbo-xbs_topic51034.html


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http://www.londoneventrentals.co.uk/ https://www.facebook.com/LondonEventRentals


Posted By: goliath
Date Posted: 13 April 2011 at 8:58pm
Thumbs Up


Posted By: Steve_B
Date Posted: 14 April 2011 at 12:18am

Sam,

If I can comment on your thoughts. These speakers are never going to compete with a conventional large PA, but not every application requires megawatts of power.

Tony and myself have exchanged a number of emails about this type of design since before Christmas. I forget who mentioned it first, but I had been interested because my wife wants a simple system that she can use when I am not about to set the equipment up. She has a friend who uses a Fishman solo performer system and asked if I could make something similar. From my point of view the system needed to amplify an acoustic guitar and vocals and would be used for a solo performer. Tony expressed an interest so one or two ideas were batted back and forth.

A broken leg before Christmas (I was discharged by the hospital last month) and an impending employment tribunal case in the New Year stopped any activity on my part, but Tony pressed ahead and ordered some drive units; so I get the benefit of listening to them before spending any money.

After measuring the speakers we listened to some acoustic material that I had recorded live. We know the 12” sub can pound with the best of them and were interested in how the two speakers integrated over the crossover region. The design has great promise for something so simple, with the ability to increase the number of drive units or stack cabinets if required.

We also discussed some further development ideas but you’ll need to watch this space regarding those. 



Posted By: SamV
Date Posted: 14 April 2011 at 2:55pm
If it's purely for acoustic then I guess it can makes sense I suppose. I just didn't fancy their chances against other band members/instruments.


Posted By: Baron Greenback
Date Posted: 14 April 2011 at 5:54pm
I reckon they look great, and for their intended purpose (seems pretty obvious to me) they look as if they are just what the doctor ordered, that is that they are: light-weight, compact, and capable of reproducing acoustic instruments and vocals with good clarity at a volume level that will be more than ample for thier intended venue placement (pub/wine bar/bistro etc). I think that a setup like this one can lend it's self to a less dominating listening experience which is just what a lot of people are after if they seek a more relaxed vibe!  Good work Tony, I think you are on to a winner there.

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The doctor recons I'm paranoid... well he didn't say it exactly, but I just knew the bastard was thinking it!



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