scoops
Printed From: Speakerplans.com
Category: Plans
Forum Name: Scoops
Forum Description: One scoop or two ;-)
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=5479
Printed Date: 26 March 2026 at 9:30pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.08 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: scoops
Posted By: abrupt
Subject: scoops
Date Posted: 21 June 2006 at 6:15am
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if i had a pair of super scoops and a pair of normal scoops on my stack would i get phase problems because of the horn lenths or are they roughly the same ------------- its all about infrabass |
Replies:
Posted By: minaximal
Date Posted: 21 June 2006 at 6:24am
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what dimensions are your "normal scoops"? its never a good idea to mix different box designs and drivers, but if they are similar then the db gain may be more usefull or noticable than the sound quality. ------------- Subs + Barges = :) http://www.metaacoustics.com" rel="nofollow - www.metaacoustics.com |
Posted By: abrupt
Date Posted: 21 June 2006 at 6:29am
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i have super scoops at the moment and i thought rather than paying 400 for another pair [unloaded] i would by a pair of the fane design loaded for the same price
------------- its all about infrabass |
Posted By: abrupt
Date Posted: 21 June 2006 at 5:13pm
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does anyone know anything about scoops ------------- its all about infrabass |
Posted By: jethrocker
Date Posted: 21 June 2006 at 5:51pm
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abrupt, this is pure opinion, there's every chance that the two designs would blend ok, but I'd go for more super scoopers everytime. Sure they cost more to build/buy, thats because there is more wood in them to make them a true horn rather than an approximation. I honestly don't think any other scoop sounds as good... 200quid a bin sounds pretty good to me considering the amount of timber, and work involved. |
Posted By: UpComingSound
Date Posted: 21 June 2006 at 11:19pm
| Question about scoops whats a good 18inch woofer to use in them? B&C EV Ciare RCF ? woofer and model please thank you |
Posted By: mykey
Date Posted: 21 June 2006 at 11:30pm
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if you have the drivers perfectly place side by side ie: the coils are in line and the same distance from you then there wont be no probs even if they are different sized drivers just make sure there coils are in line. upcomingsound..... id go for VOLT as 1st choice. pd1850 for 2nd. 3rd would be the rcfp300/s800. 4th fane xb, although i would like to try the 18sound drivers have heard so many good things about them apparently the czech guy who designs there stuff used to work for RCF ------------- ......just all them hanging there like giant bananas. |
abrupt wrote:Posted By: abrupt
Date Posted: 22 June 2006 at 5:23am
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cheers for clearing that up im off to get some more now
------------- its all about infrabass |
Posted By: james folkes
Date Posted: 22 June 2006 at 5:42am
surely that's only half the story... whilst the voice coil alignment may well be important for time alignment of the direct radiating element of the system, a scoop is a direct radiating/rear horn loaded enclosure and as such the output from the cab consists of both elements. surely path length differences in the horn length are likely to be far, far greater than the differences in voice coil alignment which i suspect could be no more than 1-2" maximum, almost trivial numbers at the frequencies involved? james. ------------- mardy hippy. |
Posted By: merlin gerwin
Date Posted: 22 June 2006 at 6:10am
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I've always believed that as the null in response happens around 80 Hz to 140 Hz depending on the horn length, that all the output will come from the horn and not the direct radiating front of the woofer. If your scoop changes from direct radiating to horn at 90 Hz and you crossover at 80 Hz into the scoop, then the output will be from the horn not the front of the woofer, or most of it anyway. I would think that its the horn lenght that would have to match if you use 2 diffirent scoop designs not how well the coils are in the same plane as its only the horn output your woried about. I would think that most scoop design horns are around 1.9 to 2.3 meters. So there could be a bit of cancalation, but I would not think it would be that bad. The null in response always looks to be around 3 times higher than the flare rate. A 2.2 meter horn has a cutoff of 40 Hz and the null apears at about 120 Hz. Why is that. Merlin G ------------- Those willing to sacrifice freedoms for security deserve neither |
Posted By: Gramps
Date Posted: 22 June 2006 at 6:33am
| No idea about Merlins query, but definately standing by James on this one. The output of the driver through the horn must be far greater than that of the direct radiating driver front, due to the efficiency gained travelling through the path of the horn. I am completely guestimating, but I would imagine that you'd probably get something in the region of 5-6db more output from the horn than the drivers front at any given power. Therefore alligning the horn sections, or ideally I guess, having identical horns/cabs, is going to make alot more difference than having the coils alligned. |
Posted By: abrupt
Date Posted: 22 June 2006 at 7:34am
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would hd15's on top of scoops be ok or would i need a digital crossover to put them in phase ------------- its all about infrabass |
Posted By: Gramps
Date Posted: 22 June 2006 at 7:41am
| You'd need some kind of delay unit... Thing is though it'd be tough to do, as you'd be trying to get their output matched to both the direct radiating element of the scoop and the horn as well. Giving me a headache just thinking about it! |
Posted By: Phil B
Date Posted: 22 June 2006 at 9:13am
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Have a look at this old thread..?
http://www.speakerplans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3838&KW=time+alignment - phasing / scoops etc thread .p. ------------- Mostly harmless.... except if catering is shut. Solar Sound System Shennanigans.. http://diyhifi.biz/" rel="nofollow - http://diyhifi.biz/ |
Posted By: abrupt
Date Posted: 22 June 2006 at 6:42pm
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so does anyone know how a pair of reflex bins would sound on top of them then would this be a problem ------------- its all about infrabass |
Posted By: Gramps
Date Posted: 25 June 2006 at 6:54pm
| Should be fine, loads of reggae soundsystems use reflex cabs on top of there scoops and don't use any kind of delay or anything for them as far as I'm aware. |
Posted By: Tom Umney
Date Posted: 26 June 2006 at 12:29am
For example the Iration Steppas boxes there use double 15 inch reflex above their 18 inch scoops, not sure if they use a delay though.
Looks like a 5 way rig to me, and the reggae pre-amps only go to 4 way, so the compression drivers and piezos must share the same crossover frequency.
 |
Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 26 June 2006 at 7:58am
How come no one is mentioning the ASS design here? "A lot" of the reggae systems I know (that still use scoops) swear by ASS copies + PD1850 = perfection. I would like to know once and for all if both superscooper and ASS were loaded with an 1850 and "spanked" (preferably by crest 9001), which would drop deepest and deliver flattest response. Comments? ------------- "Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy". |
Posted By: jethrocker
Date Posted: 26 June 2006 at 6:12pm
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I don't have any experience of the ASS scoops (not to my knowledge anyhow)... Another opinion.. I'm not sure it's always the designs that drop lowest or have the flattest response that sound best for reggae. Super Scoopers sound wicked, as I said before, depending on what your ears like, and so do some other designs that are technically speaking, pretty crap. It all depends how you like to play them really. |
Posted By: UpComingSound
Date Posted: 13 August 2006 at 1:49am
| give thanks Mykey, but i cant find Volt or Pd1850 in the usa? |
Posted By: UpComingSound
Date Posted: 13 August 2006 at 11:47pm
| question anybody in the new york area build good super scoops or scoops? or do any one build them and ship? |