Turbosound BPH-238
Printed From: Speakerplans.com
Category: Plans
Forum Name: Plan Requests
Forum Description: All plan requests here
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=60521
Printed Date: 27 March 2026 at 6:16am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.08 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Turbosound BPH-238
Posted By: Tocooltom
Subject: Turbosound BPH-238
Date Posted: 14 December 2011 at 4:22pm
|
http://hornplans.free.fr/turbo_bph238.html Which Turbosound plan is this a copy of? |
Replies:
Posted By: tweeter box
Date Posted: 14 December 2011 at 6:24pm
been looking for these, nice one 
------------- PRECISION SOUND SYSTEM. Feeding the peoples needs for Roots Music. Strictly premium grade reggae and dub steppers from the early 70's to present day. |
Posted By: tweeter box
Date Posted: 14 December 2011 at 6:24pm
------------- PRECISION SOUND SYSTEM. Feeding the peoples needs for Roots Music. Strictly premium grade reggae and dub steppers from the early 70's to present day. |
Posted By: luton_soundman
Date Posted: 14 December 2011 at 6:29pm
those 'kick bins' look nice tweet  how much would you buy a pair unloaded for??
------------- Sound Hire/Sales new/used equipment. |
Posted By: rich, ind.st
Date Posted: 14 December 2011 at 6:53pm
|
would make more sense if you stacked the phillies and tops vertically, like, loads more sense. actually,running it in two stacks would make even more sense than that. ------------- music is god |
Posted By: tweeter box
Date Posted: 14 December 2011 at 7:24pm
ill give ya 50  ------------- PRECISION SOUND SYSTEM. Feeding the peoples needs for Roots Music. Strictly premium grade reggae and dub steppers from the early 70's to present day. |
luton_soundman wrote:Posted By: luton_soundman
Date Posted: 14 December 2011 at 7:36pm
 ------------- Sound Hire/Sales new/used equipment. |
Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 14 December 2011 at 10:23pm
| it's amazing how many copies of these there are about but the plans have been kind of elusive... |
Posted By: Tocooltom
Date Posted: 15 December 2011 at 8:58am
|
That french website has got plenty of plans to keep ya busy! Anyway...is someone going to tell me what plan that is a copy of? I cant seem to find it on the turbo product sheets... |
Posted By: tweeter box
Date Posted: 15 December 2011 at 9:03am
|
i always thought they were called tse215?
------------- PRECISION SOUND SYSTEM. Feeding the peoples needs for Roots Music. Strictly premium grade reggae and dub steppers from the early 70's to present day. |
Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 15 December 2011 at 10:50am
|
yep.. they are the first version of the tse range. they were made like this for a while, then they were changed to the other version with the curved front. think tony ass was responsible for the change as he was building for them at this stage. i have a few of these.. i really like them, but i've had some for so many years i'm just attached to them really. |
Posted By: Tocooltom
Date Posted: 15 December 2011 at 12:28pm
|
I take it your rate them well then? What driver did Turbosound use in them? What is the best driver to use off the shelf? |
Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 15 December 2011 at 12:31pm
|
i've got pd154 in mine. fane colossus 15b also sounded good. i've never seen / knowingly heard an original turbo driver in them. i just like them because when i started trying to make my rig better, they were my starting point and i worked around them. do like the x1 / turbo combination. |
Posted By: Tocooltom
Date Posted: 15 December 2011 at 1:39pm
i had asked a question but i think the data sheet will answer it for me!  .......after some searching.... The data sheet below shows the TSE215, it is basically the HD215 ftp://ftp.turbosound.com/datasheets/legacy_products/tse115.pdf (the questions i had before) What frequencies is this design good for? Can you use these cabs on their own in stacks and still get good SPL at 50hz?
Who's rig is that on the right? Those kick bins look much like these plans: http://hornplans.free.fr/turbo_bph238.html" rel="nofollow - http://hornplans.free.fr/turbo_bph238.html Is this design a Turbosound cab? Are they originals? What are they loaded with? Ive searched the Turbosound product sheet and cannot find any designs that are anything like this cab  I would appreciate it if someone could shed some light on this design because i am thinking of building some!  |
Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 15 December 2011 at 5:39pm
|
what are you looking for? basically these were made in the early days of turbosound. the festival rig was broken up and used for hires, the company were called Turbosound Rental in those days i think. cabs of this era were built by SSE in Nottingham. these bins among some of the other early stuff was made at that time. there's no data sheets for anything from this time. the TSE range as you found the data sheet for was a later range that evolved from this older stuff. look in the golden oldies section for a thread called "Turbosound: the relics" or something like that. the tse range was early 80s so these are older than that. the bins pictured above could be originals or copies.. in either case, the bracing was added, that wasn't there originally. copies are often better than originals of these, because they're newer. many of the old ones have got fairly rattly by now. also.. the HD15 is basically the TSE-215, not the other way round heh  i have mine loaded with pd154, i play them above X1s, i run them up to 150hz. in the turbosound data sheets you'll find many 18" bins based on this. arguably the ES18, the USB, the funktion one 18" bins all owe their arrangement to the old turbo bph. be they 18 or 15". |
Posted By: Tocooltom
Date Posted: 16 December 2011 at 9:41am
|
I was just looking for a little more information about the cab because as i have found out they are quite rare and not many people have them. But you have cleared up the questions i had so thanks! Will be looking into building a pair as the design is very simple and if people are still using them, they must be good! I might have a play with the plan and change the design so it is arranged like a USB. I have been searching for a 15" version of the USB and have only come across one design the fits the bill. This could be a good little project  |
Posted By: tweeter box
Date Posted: 16 December 2011 at 9:50am
Theyre exact copies of the original Turbo bins, originally made by Minimaximal of the forum, sold to me then sold to Luton Soundman Excellent on kick, thanks to your link to the plan im gonna be making single versions ive A/B these with HD15 and tbh the HD15 didnt stand a chance, each cab was tested with PD154 & PD1550, please note that the 154 were sold straight after the test Freq played was "approx" 60hz-150hz, hope this helps   ------------- PRECISION SOUND SYSTEM. Feeding the peoples needs for Roots Music. Strictly premium grade reggae and dub steppers from the early 70's to present day. |
Posted By: mykey-
Date Posted: 16 December 2011 at 10:32am
|
@tweet so you tried a double HD15 against the double turbo cab and the HD didn't stand a chance? don't believe you ------------- BbbBBRAAAAPppBBBBbgushhhhhhhhssshhhhhGrAbRAAAAAAPPPPPp = Dubstep |
Posted By: Tocooltom
Date Posted: 16 December 2011 at 1:14pm
|
What makes you say that mykey? It would be interesting to see the turbo cab compared to a HD on paper before i decide to build some. |
Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 16 December 2011 at 2:16pm
 some visible there in an old photo from the turbosound factory |
Posted By: Tocooltom
Date Posted: 16 December 2011 at 4:05pm
|
That pic is old skool! where did you find that? |
Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 16 December 2011 at 4:47pm
| it was on the turbosound site in the past. i can't work out what the ones in the foreground are.. they look like shells for martin phils or something... i wonder did SSE build for them too? tony or someone might know. |
Posted By: smoore
Date Posted: 22 December 2011 at 10:51am
|
I take it 2 of these will have a very similar output then? h http://hornplans.free.fr/em15.html" rel="nofollow - ttp://hornplans.free.fr/em15.html I've built one loaded with kappa 15lf and whilst very happy. Not blown away with output. Im still deciding whether to build another 3
|
Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 23 December 2011 at 1:30am
| cabs like these do get better in multiples.. i couldn't tell you though. i've never really properly used anything else similar so can't describe a comparison. |
Posted By: smoore
Date Posted: 23 December 2011 at 9:58am
| Well i tested one with my whole system yesterday and very happy with the way it works above subs. What do you cross yours at? And would you say stack them the way in that picture or HD215/USB style? |
Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 23 December 2011 at 10:13am
| i use mine at about 70 - 150. |
Posted By: tweeter box
Date Posted: 02 January 2012 at 10:42am
no single side of the double Turbo cab against a single HD15 ------------- PRECISION SOUND SYSTEM. Feeding the peoples needs for Roots Music. Strictly premium grade reggae and dub steppers from the early 70's to present day. |
Posted By: dj haydn
Date Posted: 07 January 2012 at 12:38am
|
thanks for the link in the other thread tweet :) couple of questions, having never heard a hd15 or the turbo why in your opion was the turbo better and for what style of music, and why do you prefer the 1550 to the 154? im curious because theyr both about the same price give or take a fiver and if i was to choose this design over the hd15 ect i would like the best sounding driver, also do you know how these compare to the mkb/mkh style cab??? many thanks ------------- contact me for booking the Earwax Sound-system @ Earwaxsoundsystem@hotmail.co.uk |
Posted By: Tocooltom
Date Posted: 09 January 2012 at 2:31pm
|
cravings uses 154, tweeter box uses 1550, both will sound good without a doubt, the 1550 has more power and correct me if im wrong but will the PD154 sound more musical than the 1550? IMO the HD is not very good, 95% of the time i have listened to them, they don't please me ears. there has to be cabs just as good or better than the HD out there. There is only one member AFAIK that has built the mkb/h cabs on this forum and their name escapes me atm so comparing the mkb/h to the turbo is very unlikely, also there is no real data on this turbo design due it being so old, it pre dates the turbosound product list! You can compare the HD15, turbosound BPH and the mkb/h cabs but you would have to use hornresp due to the lack of data for the turbo. Would be good to see the difference tho. |
Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 09 January 2012 at 2:42pm
| i've always heard that the pd1550 is a generally more musical driver, and more versatile, and that the pd154 just thumps. as i said above, i liked the sound of fane collosus 15b in these also. but at this stage i have most experience with the pd154 (i have 12 pd154s in these turbo bins), so i'm not really in a position to compare them with anything else. |
Posted By: smoore
Date Posted: 20 January 2012 at 2:15pm
I've just gone n built myself 2 EM15's which have very similar dimensions/layout. Loaded with kappa 15lfs and loving the way they sound :) Wil put photo's of the build on new project forum! |
Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 20 January 2012 at 2:18pm
|
sure do look very similar! nice |
Posted By: Tocooltom
Date Posted: 31 January 2012 at 3:58pm
 redrawn plans in USB style arangement Let me know if anyone needs the cad file (the dims on the cad file are not perfect but close enough) |
Posted By: Calculus
Date Posted: 03 February 2012 at 3:18am
|
looks nice can you sticks some angles up mate? or send me the cad... would be fun for the 12x15's we have...
------------- Always a compromise, You can't have everything... Where would you put it all. |
Posted By: smoore
Date Posted: 03 February 2012 at 8:39am
| yea mate could you send me cad too? and yes angles would be very useful as well as i might build more of these.. |
Posted By: Tocooltom
Date Posted: 03 February 2012 at 9:26am
|
i take it you cant send files over SP? PM me your email address and i will send the cad file. As i said some of the dims shown are not exactly correct but + or - 2mm max If you do change it so its perfectly the same then please post it up, im not all that great with cad |
Posted By: tweeter box
Date Posted: 03 February 2012 at 9:43am
 what drivers has it been simmed for? ------------- PRECISION SOUND SYSTEM. Feeding the peoples needs for Roots Music. Strictly premium grade reggae and dub steppers from the early 70's to present day. |
Posted By: Tocooltom
Date Posted: 03 February 2012 at 10:11am
|
well its the same as the original just arranged one on top of the other, it hasn't been simmed that i know of, but people have said PD154 or PD1550. Im making a few changes to the dims, just found that its actually better than i thought, just had the dims in the wrong place. Ive made the fonts bigger and im now adding the angles. will post the revised version soon. |
Posted By: tweeter box
Date Posted: 03 February 2012 at 10:18am
lovely jus what i been looking for ------------- PRECISION SOUND SYSTEM. Feeding the peoples needs for Roots Music. Strictly premium grade reggae and dub steppers from the early 70's to present day. |
Posted By: Tocooltom
Date Posted: 03 February 2012 at 11:05am
I hope this is better, all the measurements are within 1mm of the original so it cant be too bad. If you spot any mistakes let me know Lengths of panels on one side, angles on the other, you can do the rest i think? If you want the cad file, PM me your email address Cant wait to get a pair of these built. Do you think it would be worth making the outside panels from 18mm and keeping the 15mm internal panels? The cab is rather large for 15mm ply don't you think? Wont take too much to change it, and i cant be asked to redraw the whole inside of the cab to fit 18mm, that involves effort |
Posted By: Tocooltom
Date Posted: 03 February 2012 at 12:32pm
both versions of the new plan, 15mm on the left, 18mm outside panels on the right  If anybody builds some, it would be nice to see some pics in the new projects forum.  |
Posted By: Risc_Terilia
Date Posted: 03 February 2012 at 12:56pm
| But which drivers? PD154s? |
Posted By: Tocooltom
Date Posted: 03 February 2012 at 1:30pm
|
apparently the 154 or 1550, check back through the thread its already been discussed I have sent the plans to tweeter box and hes going to sim it in winisd, if you want to do it yourself pm me your email address. |
Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 03 February 2012 at 1:57pm
| i've doubled up the top panel on these, it's the biggest unbraced surface. |
Posted By: Tocooltom
Date Posted: 03 February 2012 at 2:05pm
im going to copy the bracing from my new punishers and fit that into the mouth of this horn, i think it will look pretty sexy when its all done |
Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 03 February 2012 at 2:10pm
|
by top panel i meant the 610mm one on the left and right of your plan there. they were some of the first things i built, turned out slightly wonky but very solid hehe.  
|
Posted By: Tocooltom
Date Posted: 03 February 2012 at 2:32pm
|
nice build the bracing from the punishers should be enough to hold the horn nice and sturdy. handles - you have put yours in the horn mouth which looks okay for singles, but im not sure this will be the best place for them when they are in doubles. I'm thinking of using the handle design from the punishers because it is basically an extra panel screwed on top (or each end as shown in my plan), that way providing extra support and incorporating the handles into the cab without affecting the sound. Its also very easy to move them around on the wheels with the handles like that This will also make my plan slightly wider, hopefully just enough to fit perfectly on top of one double punisher...taking my measuring tape home tonight
|
Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 03 February 2012 at 2:39pm
| they're in the chamber. they work there fine when the speakers are that way up, they're well balanced. i put some box handles in the same place on some doubles, and again, they work when they're stood that way, but not so much when they're on their wheels on their back. never been sure what to do with them. |
Posted By: tweeter box
Date Posted: 03 February 2012 at 3:12pm
hes going to try you mean ------------- PRECISION SOUND SYSTEM. Feeding the peoples needs for Roots Music. Strictly premium grade reggae and dub steppers from the early 70's to present day. |
Posted By: Tocooltom
Date Posted: 07 February 2012 at 11:07am
|
Any news Tweeter box? I took down as many Dims as i could from the punishers this weekend. Now ive got to fit it all into my drawing i hope it works! |
Posted By: Tocooltom
Date Posted: 27 February 2012 at 5:03pm
Ive done the drawings for the handle arrangement  Now for the bracing... |
Posted By: dj haydn
Date Posted: 29 February 2012 at 4:34pm
|
i think its time to build my mids, has anyone built and tested the above plans yet? and how do they compare to the double 12's you previously suggested tom?? ------------- contact me for booking the Earwax Sound-system @ Earwaxsoundsystem@hotmail.co.uk |
Posted By: Tocooltom
Date Posted: 29 February 2012 at 4:55pm
|
The above plans are the same as the cabs that cravings and tweeter box use (only arranged differently so will sound slightly different) and they both rate them well, however there is no data for this particular design unless you want to Hornresp it yourself That means comparing the Turbo cabs to the dual 12s would be difficult, and I'm not clued up enough to say which would be better just off the top of my head. The only thing i would say is the turbo cabs are likely to go slightly lower than the dual 12s but that's just a guess...and if you using them as kick bins then this is not such a problem. I dont think anyone from this forum has built the MKB and MKH cabs i suggested before, however if you go to the french website hornplans, there are some people who have built them. The website shows data for them and judging by the RCF drivers recommended for those cabs, they should sound fairly good. I want to build a pair of these turbo cabs to sit on my punishers and also a pair of the either the MKB or MKH just to see how good they are. Ive just had a thought....I'm going to change the arrangement of the MKB and MKH plans too |
Posted By: dj haydn
Date Posted: 29 February 2012 at 5:08pm
|
thanks tom ------------- contact me for booking the Earwax Sound-system @ Earwaxsoundsystem@hotmail.co.uk |
im thinking of building the single version like cravings has posted earier in this thread (gotta love the little flower poking its head up over the left bin
), so arrangment would be something i could play with, not really the reason for the decision more so its easier to move by myself, im not very skilled at carpentry so im going to get the wood cut and then assemble them myself, who was it you suggested to try again tom? cant seem to find the email you sent me, muchly appreciated Posted By: Tocooltom
Date Posted: 01 March 2012 at 9:44am
|
try SP: tomchute at stable audio or SP: goliath from phatboy sounds |
Posted By: t.geessounds
Date Posted: 01 March 2012 at 12:41pm
| how those the speaker install in these like the usb or the hd with the magnet inside the chamber?? |
Posted By: Tocooltom
Date Posted: 01 March 2012 at 1:28pm
|
if you look at the original plan on page 1, the driver is mounted with the magnet inside the chamber like a HD. How much difference would it make turning the driver around to the USB style? |
Posted By: smoore
Date Posted: 01 March 2012 at 2:56pm
| I dont think the driver will sit in the throat. I held my driver up at the angles when i was building my single versions and the back of the cabinet gets in the way i think.. Cant entirely remember.. Anyway thought I would stick up a link to the ones i built if anyone fancies a ganders! http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150105889493951.284126.659953950&type=3#!/photo.php?fbid=10150493089183951&set=a.10150105889493951.284126.659953950&type=3&theater" rel="nofollow - http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150105889493951.284126.659953950&type=3#!/photo.php?fbid=10150493089183951&set=a.10150105889493951.284126.659953950&type=3&theater |
Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 02 March 2012 at 10:41am
|
they're not the same plan as the turbo bins though are they? they look different.. they look deeper. btw tom this "bph-238" is a name that french guy has obviously stuck on the plan, i presume it's metric for 2x15.. but people have always called these bins the tse-215. |
Posted By: smoore
Date Posted: 02 March 2012 at 12:33pm
| oh yea sorry I always think its the same design! Its very similar i think theres about 2-3cm difference in the dims. And the internal plan is very similar but with the access panel at the top |
Posted By: Tocooltom
Date Posted: 02 March 2012 at 4:56pm
I thought it had something to do with that I would change the thread name but ive posted a link to this page on a few other threads now and if i change it then the links wont work, thanks for the heads up |
Posted By: andycw
Date Posted: 09 April 2012 at 9:33pm
|
@tocooltom You seen these? http://photo.qip.ru/users/tda-audio/1155875/25513039/" rel="nofollow">  http://photo.qip.ru/users/tda-audio/1155875/25513038/" rel="nofollow">  ------------- No Bass No Fun |
Posted By: Tocooltom
Date Posted: 10 April 2012 at 8:54am
|
Yeh ive seen that pic somewhere before, problem is that is a 218 cab (pretty much a USB) Ideally i need a 215 because i want to keep the kicks a similar size to the punishers ive already got
|
Posted By: Tocooltom
Date Posted: 30 May 2012 at 5:02pm
|
very similar design here, may be of use to people...slightly deeper than the turbo cab TDA ES15/BPH http://www.freespeakerplans.com/forum/16-bass/10974-tda-es15-bph" rel="nofollow - http://www.freespeakerplans.com/forum/16-bass/10974-tda-es15-bph
|
Posted By: collision
Date Posted: 22 March 2013 at 6:57pm
|
I'm currently in the predicament of choosing between the turbo cab mentioned in this thread and usbs, Im currently running 6 wsx replica's 3 turbo tfs, and have been using martin 115's as kick but want to upgrade. What does everyone think, im drawn to the usb's as i think they will keep up better than the turbo? Cheers guys ------------- ONE LIFE. AVE IT. |
Posted By: Tocooltom
Date Posted: 23 March 2013 at 1:54am
|
One thing to think about is how you like to stack your system and how the turbos or USB will fit, I can't remember the dims of wsx off the top of my head. Both are very good cabs and cost pretty much the same to build and load. To be honest I can't answer your question because I've never heard the turbo and USB next to eachother. Maybe someone else has? |
Posted By: boots-hifi
Date Posted: 23 March 2013 at 3:03pm
| I have, i've got them both for sale! Two different cabs. One's a double 15" forward firing and the others a double 18" reverse firing. I prefer the Turbo's but thats just me. |
Posted By: njw
Date Posted: 23 March 2013 at 9:49pm
I don't think anything can beat the Turbosound 'kick' for dance music, but thats just me.
 |
Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 23 March 2013 at 10:16pm
|
Can anyone suggest 15" driver for the bph-238/TE215, that will actually go upto 250hz, as Turbo docs state? Without sounding terrible that is. HD15 is nothing like the old BPH238/TSE215, doesn't go as low or as high. Owned HD15s previously, and heard the TSE215s, with 1550s. No contest. ------------- Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing. |
Posted By: SebP
Date Posted: 24 March 2013 at 6:15am
Have you ever heard the Martin F2B? |
Posted By: boots-hifi
Date Posted: 24 March 2013 at 9:51am
| PD 154's in mine, dunno about that high Lev but they certainly hit 170-180 fine. |
Posted By: boots-hifi
Date Posted: 03 April 2013 at 10:28pm
|
Single version of the plans. 1 Cab loaded with PD 154 simed pink noise. 
I will have 4 singles and two doubles loaded with PD 154's available soon.
|
Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 03 April 2013 at 11:20pm
Simmed, or response plot mate ? ------------- Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing. |
Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 03 April 2013 at 11:34pm
|
response plott mic not calibrated for spl, plott taken at 5m...... but calibrated in all other areas.... for a true measurment we should of done a signal sweep at 2m..... ------------- https://www.elements-audio.com |
Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 03 April 2013 at 11:37pm
|
no off the shelf driver in a bhp will get up that high..... even the claims that the turbo can go to 250 is a big stretch.... yes it plays that high but sounds very boom'y....... even with turbo drivers i would not play past 185hz ------------- https://www.elements-audio.com |
Posted By: chiourme
Date Posted: 24 August 2013 at 2:39pm
|
Turbosound "BPH238" = SSE Turbosound TB215
http://www.dghwells.clara.net/pictures/SSETS4.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://www.dghwells.clara.net/pictures/SSETS4.jpg
http://forum.speakerplans.com/assgaussmartinetc-old-brochures_topic24797_page10.html" rel="nofollow - http://forum.speakerplans.com/assgaussmartinetc-old-brochures_topic24797_page10.html
|
Posted By: chiourme
Date Posted: 24 August 2013 at 3:04pm
|
. |
Posted By: chiourme
Date Posted: 24 August 2013 at 3:05pm
|
Posted By: Tweeter_Box
Date Posted: 26 August 2013 at 11:26pm
|
got a pair of mint PD1550 if anybody buildin these boxes needs em? |
Posted By: vragas
Date Posted: 08 October 2013 at 8:04pm
|
am in the process of building four of these kick bins and i was wandering if i will need to ad wading in them? |
Posted By: vragas
Date Posted: 09 October 2013 at 8:12pm
http://s276.photobucket.com/user/versionman/media/SAM_0037.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
|
Posted By: Tocooltom
Date Posted: 18 October 2013 at 5:53am
|
add some wadding, see how it sounds @chiourme SSE copied the designs and sold them as their own until turbosound got onto them
|
Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 18 October 2013 at 10:04am
| i thought SSE were building them legitimately for turbosound. both names were on the back of them. |
Posted By: Tocooltom
Date Posted: 20 October 2013 at 12:01am
| yes they were building them for turbo, but they also decided to sell them off to buyers in the uk and europe under the noses of turbo. One day turbo found out and cut all ties with SSE. As you can imagine their relationship has never been the same since. |
Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 20 October 2013 at 4:10am
| wonder what driver the SSE ones were loaded with then. |
Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 20 October 2013 at 12:17pm
Think this is endemic in the industry. ------------- Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing. |
Posted By: vragas
Date Posted: 20 May 2014 at 1:30pm
http://s276.photobucket.com/user/versionman/media/sound.jpg.html" rel="nofollow"> |