Highest amplifier supply rails?
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Category: General
Forum Name: Amp Forum
Forum Description: The 'Stopping Jake Fielder moaning constantly' forum description...
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=64433
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Topic: Highest amplifier supply rails?
Posted By: BUZguy
Subject: Highest amplifier supply rails?
Date Posted: 06 March 2012 at 10:53pm
| Was wondering what amp has the highest +/- voltage rails in the non tier designs? i.e. single pos. rail, zero and single neg. rail. |
Replies:
Posted By: Peter Papp [PKN]
Date Posted: 06 March 2012 at 11:06pm
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PKN 3PHASE-20K +/- 276V I have not seen any other audio amps with even close values |
Posted By: Muckerbarnes1
Date Posted: 07 March 2012 at 1:55am
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You are of course talking semiconductor and not thermionic. ------------- Billy Dawg. |
Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 07 March 2012 at 10:30am
Have they invented a speaker that can work at that voltage level (or is that a lighting amp  )??  ------------- Earplugs Are For Wimps! |
Peter Papp [PKN wrote:Posted By: jbinks
Date Posted: 07 March 2012 at 10:48am
I'm sure there is a car-audio "speaker" out there that claims to handle 10k... Would be a fun experiment. In reality however, that kind of amp would be for driving many speakers at once, not just one! So the loads would be connected series-parallel to achieve the best loading for the amp and also voltage across each driver. ------------- Can you have too many 1850-horns or PKN XE amps?? |
Posted By: Peter Papp [PKN]
Date Posted: 07 March 2012 at 11:14am
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There are just very few speakers which can handle above 200V peaks. I meant only peaks with super carefully maintained average-to-peak ratio with rms limiter, etc... The ability of extra headroom compared the +/- 276V to an amp for example an XE6000 with 190V rail (which is still pretty high) is significant even on moderated power levels with smaller speakers too. |
Posted By: teslaman
Date Posted: 07 March 2012 at 11:59am
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If you mean class-AB with no rail switching (i.e. not class G/H) then i've seen up to +/- 90/100V split rails but there are probably more extreme examples out there (Maplin 1kW amp kit or OMP 1kW MOSFET amp perhaps?). Above these rail voltages it's harder to find decent transistors and more effeciency from class-G/H helps keep dissipation down anyway whilst lowering the maximum voltage the devices see. Class-D is a different matter of course...
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Posted By: burningbush
Date Posted: 07 March 2012 at 1:46pm
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What about a big valve amp, don't they have kV supply rails?
------------- music is the message |
Posted By: M4trix
Date Posted: 07 March 2012 at 3:22pm
I'm a bit skeptic about PKN 3PHASE-20K power ratings. I would like to see the design. Which transistor they used in the output? Transistors that can withstand at least 550V and designed for audio? Unfortunately this is beyond my knowledge.  /me digging on the net about this case....  |
Posted By: simonp1100
Date Posted: 07 March 2012 at 3:45pm
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1.21 gigawatts per rail.
Sorry i was waiting for someone to say that, thought i would get in there first.
 |
Posted By: burningbush
Date Posted: 07 March 2012 at 4:31pm
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Anode supply voltage to KT66 of 475-575v. Anode supply voltage to V1505 of 2-2.5kV. From the Audio Freq. Amplifier Design book from GEC ltd (London) 1957. ------------- music is the message |
Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 07 March 2012 at 6:25pm
Class D will use switching transistors - usualy fets, not audio devices. {Maybe that´s why they don´t sound right, haha. Just kidding!} ------------- Earplugs Are For Wimps! |
Posted By: M4trix
Date Posted: 07 March 2012 at 6:54pm
Ecler's PAM 6100 is a class AB amplifier with two 3,6kVA toroidal transformers, cca. 150V DC per rail and delivers 1750W per channel on 4 ohms load. That's the highest power supply voltage I've seen in a AB class design. It has 24 switching fets in the output, IRFP360. |
Posted By: kedwardsleisure
Date Posted: 07 March 2012 at 7:14pm
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Some of the big Trace Elliot bass amp heads use around 630V. I don't think this is a good idea! ------------- Kevin North Staffordshire |
Posted By: BUZguy
Date Posted: 07 March 2012 at 8:34pm
| I think the Maplin 1Kw and the BK Electronics 1000w module were both approx +/-90v. |
Posted By: studio45
Date Posted: 07 March 2012 at 9:49pm
630v with solid state devices? Really? ------------- Studio45 - Repairs & Building Commotion Soundsystem -Mobile PA |
Posted By: Nitz V1505
Date Posted: 07 March 2012 at 10:40pm
------------- LET THE BASS ROLL LIKE THUNDER & THE TOPS LIKE LIGHTNING..... |
Posted By: Nitz V1505
Date Posted: 07 March 2012 at 10:42pm
------------- LET THE BASS ROLL LIKE THUNDER & THE TOPS LIKE LIGHTNING..... |
Posted By: kedwardsleisure
Date Posted: 07 March 2012 at 10:58pm
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Yeah I was thinking of the V8 that uses 4 matched pairs of KT88. Serious stress and the valve bases coated in silicone grease. ------------- Kevin North Staffordshire |
Posted By: Nitz V1505
Date Posted: 08 March 2012 at 11:08am
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Would love to hear it hooked up to a G sub or two loaded with Fane 18xb's!!!!!!! ------------- LET THE BASS ROLL LIKE THUNDER & THE TOPS LIKE LIGHTNING..... |
Posted By: DjLeco
Date Posted: 08 March 2012 at 4:24pm
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I use on mine modules of amplification, +/- 96-98Vdc
AB-B Class module amps.
Test here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrenN56u-GY" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrenN56u-GY
------------- I'm A Stupid SMART Romanian... |
Posted By: Peter Papp [PKN]
Date Posted: 08 March 2012 at 5:54pm
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There is no available circuitry which would be able to use 100% of the DC bus range. Generally there is at least 5V or more drop due semiconductors, coils and ripple,etc.. effects.  |
Posted By: M4trix
Date Posted: 08 March 2012 at 7:16pm
You burnt the floor with those dummy load resistors.  |
Posted By: DjLeco
Date Posted: 08 March 2012 at 7:31pm
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Yes!
That means POWER.
Also dummy load was almost destroyed (melted ceramic)
 Power is power, but at me is CONTINUOUS power! ------------- I'm A Stupid SMART Romanian... |
Posted By: M4trix
Date Posted: 08 March 2012 at 7:48pm
Yeah, you're right. Btw, you did a nice job there with your amplifier. Congratz.  |
Posted By: DjLeco
Date Posted: 08 March 2012 at 7:54pm
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It will follow, 2 ch on BTL for big power into 8 and 4 ohms, AB-B class sound, and in next future, I will develop a big power classD amp, (bass exclusive15Hz-330Hz) a big power class TD amp, (fullrange 20Hz-20Khz) and maybe a easier version of I class amp.
Now, waiting for my PCB designer, to make the PCB design of SMPS, so therefore, proceed to build complete LECO amplifier, amplifier with continuous power cappability, not burst.
SMPS, almost 5200Watts peak power, here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O74jJUo7eA4&feature=player_embedded" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O74jJUo7eA4&feature=player_embedded ------------- I'm A Stupid SMART Romanian... |
Posted By: studio45
Date Posted: 08 March 2012 at 9:10pm
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You are crazy, you wouldn't see me purposefully shorting out something with a power supply that big. However it's nice to know your amp won't break if someone crazy buys it ;) Presumably the finished version will cut the power if it detects a short circuit rather than driving 27A into it all night? ------------- Studio45 - Repairs & Building Commotion Soundsystem -Mobile PA |
Posted By: BUZguy
Date Posted: 08 March 2012 at 9:46pm
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Posted By: DjLeco
Date Posted: 09 March 2012 at 1:49pm
I sold deja more than 30 modules of amplification, till now, mine co-forumist frineds, trust me and my quality design, of amplifier module.
Connecting and disconnecting the load at such big power, gives to the smps, very abrupt differences of power consumption, very big differences of di/dt, so, a weak design, will blow the switching devices, more than sure.
Audio signal is an "mixture" with big differences between min and max peaks, so the SMPS must handle very big differences of consumption, and must be capable to handle it continuous without limmitings.
Mine smps will have couple types of protection, short circuit , overcurent , thermal, and will be dual sosftstart type, also for main AC and secondary DC, total independent, for minimising inrrush current.
The SMPS will offer multiple DC outputs, all of them protected of shortcircuit, but I will make a thread, when everything will be done, with pictures and tests.
Maybe today, I will make a test with mine modules in BTL mode, on 8 ans 4 ohms dummy load, to see the output power, and all.
Keep close!
------------- I'm A Stupid SMART Romanian... |
Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 09 March 2012 at 6:16pm
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Haha - nice videos, but if your (life) insurance company sees this, your premiums are going uuuup! ------------- Earplugs Are For Wimps! |
Posted By: kedwardsleisure
Date Posted: 09 March 2012 at 6:54pm
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Hope they are CE marked and EMC approved! ------------- Kevin North Staffordshire |
Posted By: DjLeco
Date Posted: 09 March 2012 at 9:14pm
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For DIY use, no need any approvement... ------------- I'm A Stupid SMART Romanian... |
Posted By: GAZ.
Date Posted: 09 March 2012 at 10:16pm
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DJ Leco's amps certainly seem robust! flat out into 2 ohm, and shorting it out at full power and it doesn't go bang! A lot of amps out there would not take that sort of abuse and still work afterwards. ------------- 100% Earth Moving Bass |
Posted By: kedwardsleisure
Date Posted: 09 March 2012 at 10:52pm
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Ok. But your posts seem more like an advert for your amplifiers. Can you post the schematics for them in the spirit of the forum. ------------- Kevin North Staffordshire |
Posted By: GAZ.
Date Posted: 10 March 2012 at 12:07am
Doesn't come across to me as being an advert, more of a "Hey Look what I made!" ------------- 100% Earth Moving Bass |
Posted By: kedwardsleisure
Date Posted: 10 March 2012 at 12:43am
I was being polite in a restrained, English way  ------------- Kevin North Staffordshire |
Posted By: infamousj
Date Posted: 10 March 2012 at 2:01am
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The biggest rails in an amp that I have my hands on is a whole +/- 80vdc. It's a mid 80s Traynor beta800 I'm fixing for a friend, claims 400w per channel at full tilt. After that I'm going to attempt to build my own 100w per channel before moving into big boy power levels, lol. Have come across Some of Leco's posts Over on diyaudio and his stuff seems to be some very nice designs, keep up the good work... You helpto inspire people like me :) |
Posted By: DjLeco
Date Posted: 10 March 2012 at 11:37pm
Watch here:
http://forum.speakerplans.com/topic64601_post643537.html#643537" rel="nofollow - http://forum.speakerplans.com/topic64601_post643537.html#643537 ------------- I'm A Stupid SMART Romanian... |
Posted By: Walkalone
Date Posted: 12 March 2012 at 4:50pm
150VDC rail for class AB??? OMG!!!  Do you have Ecler PAM6100 schematic? I want to see it!
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Posted By: M4trix
Date Posted: 12 March 2012 at 10:59pm
Here you go. Actually there is no info about the power supply voltage in the service manual but fortunately I had an opportunity and opened one amplifier on my desk.  His majesty.... the PAM 6100! ---> http://www.2shared.com/document/zdWGt0Ue/ECLER_PAM_4100-6100.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.2shared.com/document/zdWGt0Ue/ECLER_PAM_4100-6100.html 
|
Posted By: Walkalone
Date Posted: 13 March 2012 at 11:18am
Sorry, i can't download from your link. It's say '' The file link that you requested is not valid. Please contact link pulisher or try to make a search''. Please upload to other host, i.e mediafire or 4shared... Thanks!!!  I have a DIY amp, 95VDC per rail. Bridge topo, used 16 pairs per channel and 2KVA IE transformer per channel. Fully complementary input, based from Crest Audio CA 12. I'm used it on my DIY 15' subwoofer. |
Posted By: M4trix
Date Posted: 13 March 2012 at 3:19pm
Strange, 2shared always worked. Try this link. http://www.mediafire.com/?xqcx770jv7yr4jm" rel="nofollow - http://www.mediafire.com/?xqcx770jv7yr4jm
You made it by yourself? Some pics would be nice. |
Posted By: Walkalone
Date Posted: 15 March 2012 at 1:43am
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Thanks M4trix!!! Yep! I build it by myself. Sorry, i sold it last week for a friend. I'm building another one, similar. 100VDC for each rail, used 16 pairs per channel, bridge topo with 2500 ~ 3000VA toroidal transformer. 2000W/8ohms, 0.1%THD@ full power is my destination, he he. Now, the PCB design is nearly complete.
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Posted By: nev23
Date Posted: 18 March 2012 at 10:33pm
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I saw a 5kW amp that had just 2 output valves. Don't know what they were (sorry) but they were anode modulating a 10kW short wave transmitter. The modulation transformer was quite large... But then the BBC radio 4 long wave transmitter uses a single output valve to deliver 400kW. And It's class B, because it has to be linear for amplitude modulation. |
Posted By: Walkalone
Date Posted: 26 March 2012 at 6:00am
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RAM Audio MB1900. Class AB amp with 5 pairs MJL21193/21194 per channel. 2.2KVA EI transformer, 108VDC per rail.
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