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THAM 12 - a compact 12" TH

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Topic: THAM 12 - a compact 12" TH
Posted By: martinsson
Subject: THAM 12 - a compact 12" TH
Date Posted: 15 March 2012 at 8:48pm
This is the THAM12 :

http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/index.php?m=03&y=12&entry=entry120315-210219" rel="nofollow - http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/index.php?m=03&y=12&entry=entry120315-210219

It's rougly half the size of the THAM15 (35x50x55cm) but is still granting usefull 50Hz response with a 100dB/W/m sensitivity flat on open ground, the driver choosen as default example is the Beyma12LX60V2.

Once again Johannes Rodin is to blame for yet another new THAM design seeing the light of day, his first words where "- it's tuned to low and the enclosure is to big" but eventually he came around to seeing it my way :)

The blog is now updated, but will continue to be worked on.

Best reg's // Martinsson


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Swedish Pro-fi diy-nerd - http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/" rel="nofollow - http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/



Replies:
Posted By: login4
Date Posted: 15 March 2012 at 8:58pm
great, ill looks forward to it, thanksBig smile




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CELTIC SUBSONIC SOUND SYSTEMS


Posted By: goodgroove
Date Posted: 15 March 2012 at 9:17pm
Would jbl 2206 or 2204 drivers be suitable for this design as I have some available ?


Posted By: martinsson
Date Posted: 17 March 2012 at 8:59pm



More info and simualtions are now available on the blog.

As for the JBL drivers, i have no idea I'm afraid, give hornresp a try and let me know what you find, all the info is available.




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Swedish Pro-fi diy-nerd - http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/" rel="nofollow - http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/


Posted By: _djk_
Date Posted: 18 March 2012 at 4:14am
This is not a THAM 12, but a similar (but larger) TH using the JBL 2206.




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djk


Posted By: martinsson
Date Posted: 23 March 2012 at 3:10pm
I recently heared thatt he JBL GTI1200 will work fine in th THAM12 and I will look into this as soon as possible, when doing so I'll se i f i can have a go at the JBL's asked for here aswell.

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Swedish Pro-fi diy-nerd - http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/" rel="nofollow - http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/


Posted By: martinsson
Date Posted: 25 March 2012 at 10:52am
JBL 2004H :


JBL 2006H :


Compared with a modern driver, let's say the B&C 12PS100 :



Or the original Beyma 12LX60 from rougly the same age (?) :






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Swedish Pro-fi diy-nerd - http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/" rel="nofollow - http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/


Posted By: GekoMusic94
Date Posted: 25 March 2012 at 10:59am
This seems similar to the MTH-30Smile good job martinssonClap

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Posted By: martinsson
Date Posted: 25 March 2012 at 11:59am
Thanks, but I'm not sure that's a fair comparison, the MTH-30 is 68x34x57cm (131,7 liters) exteral volume, the THAM12 is 55x35x50 (96,2 liters) and this difference (~37%) will not go unnoticed, see this as a more compact alternative, not a competitor, the MTH-30 is a great design and well proven in the field aswell.




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Swedish Pro-fi diy-nerd - http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/" rel="nofollow - http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/


Posted By: slaz
Date Posted: 27 March 2012 at 7:11pm
Originally posted by martinsson martinsson wrote:

I recently heared thatt he JBL GTI1200 will work fine in th THAM12 and I will look into this as soon as possible, when doing so I'll se i f i can have a go at the JBL's asked for here aswell.


Interesting. Thats a car subwoofer right ? Is it one of the ones with REALLY low Fs and low efficiency ?

I'm asking because I have here a 12" (ish - actually more like 11") bass driver branded Kicker. Was originally in a compact reflex box (with amplifier as active sub) .... now I have the amplifier also - very power-efficient (think it must be class D) .... only 50W RMS  but great for portable battery-powered small setups I use.

Thing is, this driver is (obviously) a great match for the amplifier (decent cone area, 2R impedance, and matching power handling). Now during trying to look up info on this Kicker thing, I came across comments from the car audiophile types to the effect that "plays very good level, but not real deep".
This - plus the feel of the surround - makes me think its not really like typical "2000W" Fs=20Hz, efficiency=86dB car subs ..... a bit more like PA bass drivers - or mebbe more like hi-fi drivers.
Certainly that 50W amplifier was REALLY throwing the cone around in free air ....
Other nice thing is that its really light-weight (smal magnet).

Anyway - I got to thinking - wonder if that driver could be made to play at half-decent efficiency in a compact horn-loaded cab - like maybe Cubo or some such. Or .... THAM 12 ?
Is there a chance it could work in a THAM12 ? What are the main determinants of the suitability of the driver ? .... I have no info this one at all .... but could mebber try to measure Fs at least with the rice trick LOL

If it could play between 50 and 100 or so with improved efficiency I'd be well chuffed !!

Thanks for any thoughts ..... even if its "nah forget it mate" Smile




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REMEMBER....POLITICIANS AND DIAPERS SHOULD BE CHANGED OFTEN AND FOR THE SAME REASON


Posted By: martinsson
Date Posted: 28 March 2012 at 8:53am
The JBL GTi1200 was not a very good match after all :



Take a look at my homepage, there you'll find approx 30 simulated drivers, from these you might be able to draw conclusions or perhaps find another more suitable candidate.

A BL value around or in excess of 20 is a good start.


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Swedish Pro-fi diy-nerd - http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/" rel="nofollow - http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/


Posted By: martinsson
Date Posted: 29 March 2012 at 4:54pm
I better post this simulation to regain some credabillity :)

The Faitalpro 12FH500 :


or perhaps the...

The BMS 12N804 :


or why not put on the spending trousers and go for...

The Beyma 12P80Nd :





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Swedish Pro-fi diy-nerd - http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/" rel="nofollow - http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/


Posted By: martinsson
Date Posted: 31 March 2012 at 3:16pm
A quick comparisson between the THAM12 and the THAM15



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Swedish Pro-fi diy-nerd - http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/" rel="nofollow - http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/


Posted By: Tony Wilkes
Date Posted: 01 April 2012 at 9:01am
Anders, try the 12HP1020, its Fs is better I think for your project.

On my slightly larger 12" THEX I am getting similar results to the THAM15 but the smaller TH12 is very similar to your THAM12

The actual TH12 measures pretty close to the simm's and loses about 8hz to the measured THAM15's

The TH12 has similar output to a high power 18" reflex  but obviously without the extension.

Keep up the good work :)

Tony




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www.forteaudio.eu - BMS - db-Mark Processors - Lexon (SAE)


Posted By: martinsson
Date Posted: 02 April 2012 at 8:47pm
Thanks for the tip Tony, here she is :)

Fatialpro 12HP1020 :


Not the best simulation for the THAM12, but more then good enough to do fine job in reality, thanks.

Quote The TH12 has similar output to a high power 18" reflex  but obviously without the extension.


But with good enough extension to do a fine job in live applications I think, now that's impressive, and I bet that alot of people would not belive it until they felt it :) the posibility that the distorion and overall quality of the sound would be improved aswell is a mere bonus.

Quote Keep up the good work :)


Thanks!, and the same goes for you, I think I'm getting close to the end regarding the PA designs, a THAM18 would be nice, but I have no emidiate plans for that at the moment, for now I'll take a break and verify my designs in my own pace, hopefully enjoying the procedures :)

I want to remember something about you have a 18" TH design in the works ?


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Swedish Pro-fi diy-nerd - http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/" rel="nofollow - http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/


Posted By: martinsson
Date Posted: 13 April 2012 at 6:17am
Size comparision, the 218 box has a sensitivity and specified frequency range comparable to the THAM15 (99dB/w/m 45-120Hz) but the extension both upwards and downwards are more forgiving and it will handle alot more power, the smaller THAM's all show the simmillar senisitivity (~100dB/W/m) but with different lower LF corners in steps of approx 10Hz each.
 


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Swedish Pro-fi diy-nerd - http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/" rel="nofollow - http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/


Posted By: login4
Date Posted: 13 April 2012 at 10:16pm
wow they really are small, so looks like four tham12's are the close to the same size as one jbl 218.

Clap


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CELTIC SUBSONIC SOUND SYSTEMS


Posted By: ovidias
Date Posted: 23 April 2012 at 4:34pm
hallo, how about Selenium 12WS600? it works in this design? how low can get at 2, even 4 cab? thanks 


Posted By: ovidias
Date Posted: 29 April 2012 at 3:46pm

here is the response



Posted By: ovidias
Date Posted: 29 April 2012 at 3:52pm

i have made some modification to the original project, look at the response and the input data



Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 29 April 2012 at 5:09pm
You should calculate in 2.0pi.



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Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
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Posted By: ovidias
Date Posted: 29 April 2012 at 5:38pm

Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

You should calculate in 2.0pi.

ok, there it is. The difference is not so evident, but it is. The 5 cm added to the high = +2dB more in the 45-60 Hz band




Posted By: rish
Date Posted: 29 April 2012 at 5:46pm
Hi martinsson. How low would 4 tham12 drop if were to use them together with the faital pro 12fh500?  i have built the tham15 and love it. I am thinking 2 tham12 a side for small functions and 4 a side for slightly larger ones. your designs are amazing to say the least.


Posted By: martinsson
Date Posted: 01 May 2012 at 10:36am
Ovidias :

Thanks for posting the sims on the Selenium 12WS600, it looks fine to me.

I really like seeing the designs being tweakked and modified, I want people to regard them as baselines, either leave them as is be happy with that, or take them further, this is the beauty with open development, the choise and freedom to do so is yours, no restrictions.

By adding 20cm to the L23 you have achieved a better LF extension, if using the same folding principles, what would this new proposal look like when drawn up, what would these extra 2dB cost in terms of dimensions ?

rish :

First off, big thanks for the kind words, secondly I have not gotten around to evaluating the THAM12 to that extent yet, I'm currently getting to know a little loudmouth called THAM10, but this is somewhat related.

THAM10 is designed with a simulated LF corner of roughly 65 Hz (simmed tuning), in reality it has a usefull response from 50-55Hz, and noticable respoonse from approx 45Hz, this is pretty much in line with what i predicted.

Extrapolating on this I'd say that the THAM12 when used in singles should have a usefull resonse from approx 45Hz, when used in multiples there would be more of a SPL benefit then an extension benifit, tapped horns does not sum in the same way as flh's, but I would like to direct this question to the crews using the THAM desiigns in the field for a better answer, they will know how this works from expirience wich allways triumphs theory and simulations.


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Swedish Pro-fi diy-nerd - http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/" rel="nofollow - http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/


Posted By: _djk_
Date Posted: 01 May 2012 at 11:02am


One, two, and four of a 40hz design (15TBX100).


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djk


Posted By: jamwa
Date Posted: 01 May 2012 at 3:52pm
DJK to work out the max spl would I take the output of 4 cabs 1w/1mtr and times by total watts of all 4 cabs or just the 1.....
 
so in example 112db @ 1w/1mtr (4 x cabs) x the total wattage not single driver wattage.
 
 
via an SPL calculator of course... 


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Sound, Light, Projection, Display, Cameras and production support


Posted By: infrasound
Date Posted: 01 May 2012 at 3:54pm
Total Smile


Posted By: jamwa
Date Posted: 01 May 2012 at 4:25pm
that will make the total output of 4 tham15's over 150db allowing for some thermal resistance.

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Sound, Light, Projection, Display, Cameras and production support


Posted By: djeddie
Date Posted: 01 May 2012 at 7:13pm
Originally posted by jamwa jamwa wrote:

that will make the total output of 4 tham15's over 150db allowing for some thermal resistance.

They're good. Very good... but not that good!


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Chas n Dave : it's like Drum and Bass but with beards.             E=mc² ±3dB


Posted By: ovidias
Date Posted: 16 May 2012 at 4:32pm

I have made 1 piece. Here it is







Posted By: t.geessounds
Date Posted: 16 May 2012 at 4:58pm
wow that look realy nice make me want to try a pail now Thumbs Up


Posted By: martinsson
Date Posted: 16 May 2012 at 5:22pm
ovidias : is that Tony's FTH 12 ? an excellent design I'm sure, but just to clarify that it's not a THAM12 (to avoid confusion).

(at first I thought it was an upscaled development release of the THAM10 with full front modifications)

This however is the build of a THAM12 :


The differnace is in the final steps of the folding and the full front grille capabillity of the FTH-12, otherweise i think they are remarkably simmillar in their respective balancing of performance.

Thanks for sharing, It's allways nice to see build pictures, and Tony's design is one of great quality.' I'm sure.


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Swedish Pro-fi diy-nerd - http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/" rel="nofollow - http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/


Posted By: ovidias
Date Posted: 16 May 2012 at 5:50pm
thank you Martinson. The project is 99 % the same, just a little difference, is higher with 50 mm, S3 and S4 is bigger, also L23 is with 14-15 cm longer. This is traduced in more SPL to the lower octave. It is a great design and for that I thank u very much 


Posted By: martinsson
Date Posted: 16 May 2012 at 7:19pm
Ovidias : Oh, yes I see, so you stated a coupple of posts ago, sorry for the missunderstanding, nice work, and it's allways a joy to see the designs evolve, or being tweaked, I really like the "i'll do my own thing of this"-approach, that drives development, good job!

So, how du you find this version of yours ? is it performing ok ?


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Swedish Pro-fi diy-nerd - http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/" rel="nofollow - http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/


Posted By: ovidias
Date Posted: 16 May 2012 at 7:29pm
great is a little word to describe the sound that came out from such a little box Clap


Posted By: FForsman
Date Posted: 08 August 2012 at 11:55pm

Hi

I am very curious on this little speaker and I think I’m about to build a pair my selves.

I’m not 100 % convinced that they have the extension downwards for my taste.  Is there anyone who has made some measurement on them and would like to post them? I would appreciate that very much.

Kind regards

/Forsman



Posted By: Chaps
Date Posted: 18 December 2012 at 1:39pm
It have been a looong time since i last was in the garage for building subs (JBells SS15), but .. Now i'm back and excited to get started on something new.

The THAM12 looks very interesting to me. I was actually looking into finding some Danley TH-Minis, but they ended up being to expensive where i live. It looks to me, as the THAM12 is very close to the Danley design.

Anyway .. I was looking at your sims on different speakers and i stumbled across something that got me wondering ..

The B&C 12PS100 is rated very low in effeciency compared to for example the PD 12.SB30, when looking at the spec sheets.
The difference at 70Hz is about 7.5 dB.
That would normally make me go for the PD, even though the B&C is capable of handeling almost twice the power. This will only gain it 3dB in advantage anyway.

Now, when i see your simulations, they seem to be very close at 1W. Is there a simple explanation to this? Is the PS100 just a more suited driver and therefore have a bigger efficiency boost or? 
Can you tell anything about how they will behave at full tilt?

I am suspecting that the TH-Mini is using the PS100, so there must be a good explanation for that Smile

 Thanks in advance!



Posted By: mobiele eenheid
Date Posted: 19 December 2012 at 12:01pm
PD States the test cabinet is a closed 975 liter box. B&C states the test cabinet is a 40 liter reflex tuned to 48 Hz. So two extremely different enclosures. You simulated those drivers in the same enclosure, which by the way is a cabinet that alters the efficiency of different drivers towards the same frequency response.
 
Both drivers are excellent horn/ bandpass drivers, tho different efficiency-wise (n0) and optimized for different frequency ranges.
 
In my experience, results when measured will be greater then simulated. Likely to happen is that the 12SB30 is percieved louder due to more output starting above 70 - 100 Hz. Whereas the 12PS100 will have more output below 50 Hz. All at the same input power.
 
For heavens sake lets not forget about power compression differences.
 
Best regards Johan


Posted By: Chaps
Date Posted: 19 December 2012 at 1:06pm
Thanks for clearing that up. Totally missed the different cabinets used for measurement.

The 12SB30 sounds compelling, as the box will be high passed around 50Hz, so no need for the driver to due well beneath that frequency. Much rather have a little extra output in the 70-100Hz region.
So frem specs and sims it lookes like the only real advantage of the 12PS100 is the capability of 700/1400 watts compared to the 12SB30s 400/800 watts.  Only a couble of dBs in difference for almost double the price.

I see though, that the PS100 is specified to +/- 8mm xmax (16mm in total) whereas the SB30 is 7mm. Anyone knows if PDs specs i also +/- ? If not, could the extra xmax be a great advantage of the B&C in this design?

Alot of questions, i know .. Bear with me Embarrassed


Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 22 December 2012 at 9:15pm
The PD Specifies +/-7mm xmax (5mm overhang) 

How high are people running these cabs?  Anyone think hitting 200Hz is possible?  Im quite tempted to knock one together to find out...


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Posted By: lukam
Date Posted: 23 December 2012 at 12:45pm
Here is a measurement from my prototype 12'' tapped horn. It has the same folding as martinsson but a bit longer horn path and is a bit bigger. Loaded with 18sound 12LW1400 it takes 1400W without exceeding xmax. Simulations predict a lot more excursion than it is in reality. In this prototype I have a small resonance at 63hz that I'm trying to get rid of. The low extension sounds lower than the measurement predicts and I can boost it at 47hz and get alot more low end... for such a small box prety impressive.
I think you can get to arround 150Hz with the crossover before it starts to sound bad. 




Posted By: mrloud
Date Posted: 16 January 2013 at 10:03pm
What are opinions for B&C 12TBX100 in tham 12?

Martinsson can U try it on your test to see diaghram...?

Thanks!


Posted By: Chaps
Date Posted: 06 February 2013 at 10:59am
Finally .. I have two (almost) finished THAM12s loaded with PD.12SB30 Smile Thought i would share a pic.



Just needs grills and perhaps another layer of paint.
Only had them fired up for a few minutes so far, so can't really say much, but the sound quality was just great!
Have a gig on saturday with a lot of time to play around. That will be interesting Tongue


Posted By: supremesoundz
Date Posted: 06 February 2013 at 11:12am
Look good! Look so compact. Do you have any build pictures?


Posted By: Chaps
Date Posted: 06 February 2013 at 11:24am
Originally posted by supremesoundz supremesoundz wrote:

Look good! Look so compact. Do you have any build pictures?

Thanks!

Build pictures will be uploaded under "New projects forum". Just need to get all the pictures from phone to computer. Will get them online this week, together with pics of them from my gig on saturday.


Posted By: t.geessounds
Date Posted: 07 February 2013 at 1:06am
nice


Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 15 April 2013 at 2:17pm
@ovidias I'm curious about your modified design, can you post how you did it?
I can see that you did more than making the design additional 5 cm longer, with this extra fold just before the driver.
I have had 4 pcs rcf lf12n401 laying around for ages, so I want to build 4 boxes for them!
-Additional LF extension would be nice, the design is so compact that adding a little extra volume is no problem.


Posted By: kingkwak
Date Posted: 16 April 2013 at 8:18pm
What sort of weight do they come in at?

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To much power? NEVER.


Posted By: myleslewis
Date Posted: 17 April 2013 at 9:48pm
Moved to own thread.

Apologies, no intention to try and hi-jack thread.

Thanks, 

Myles.


Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 05 November 2013 at 10:04am
What moved where?

Tham12 mods / tests here:


@Remoddeling
Ok, is the expansion linear all the way? I need to extend the cab to 63 cm heigh and 45 cm depth in stead of 55 / 50. If it's linear all the way I can just "drag" it around the way I like.
Ovinidas: does that extra fold work for you? I mean it's an easy hack if you can just put that there & then play lower, keeping the expansion og course.

@High cut:
How high will this box play?
I've seen Martinsson use tham15 with a turbomid on top! -That has to be crossed at 250hz or higher!
According to Martinsson you don't hear the peaks in the sim?
I guess it should sound even better with the tham12?

@Directivity:
How much directivity does this box have?
How about at 150-250 hz?
Did anyone measure / calculate this?


Posted By: RepairMan
Date Posted: 30 January 2014 at 3:05pm
Hornresp shows for THAM 12 "100db sensitivity. Hornresp - is a simulator, you do SPL measurement?


Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 24 November 2014 at 5:56pm
Please will you share your plan? This looks like a combination of tham12 & fth12, it has the wide opening from tham12 & the "leg" from fth12, I will try to sim my drivers with your input parameters now, I need a design ready for tonight.
The drivers I have at hand are rcf lf12n401, pretty aggressive driver, perhaps not the most obvious option for a tapped horn? Would flh be better?

Originally posted by ovidias ovidias wrote:

i have made some modification to the original project, look at the response and the input data



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Posted By: martinsson
Date Posted: 25 November 2014 at 6:12am

here's a link to all published THAM designs :

http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/static.php?page=static140228-173656" rel="nofollow - THAM family overview



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Swedish Pro-fi diy-nerd - http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/" rel="nofollow - http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/


Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 25 November 2014 at 8:13am
Thanks again:-)
You're plans are easy to find.
Unfortunately Ovindas doesn't have drawings of the other version, should be easier to draw out. Hard getting an even response from that driver in a th.


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Posted By: lost eden
Date Posted: 25 November 2014 at 10:14pm
I'm trying to work out a sensible low-cut/high-cut for my PD.12SB30 loaded THAM12 to keep the driver beneath its 7mm xmax, but whatever I do I can't keep the 70Hz excursion peak down? I'm new to hornresp so I don't know if I'm actually doing it right though.

These are my input parameters;



The PD.12SB30 is rated at 400W AES, which AFAIK is 56.6V at nominal impedance of 8 ohms (I assume I should be using the nominal impedance of 8 ohms & not the DC resistance of 5.88 ohms?). So I enter 56.6 for Eg in the Loudspeaker Wizard;



Then I try to play with the Filter Wizard & I can keep the low end excursion in check, but not the 70Hz region;



Unless I do something silly like this;



Is the solution just to limit power at less than 400W AES? If I limit power to 350W/53V I can use 50Hz/12dB & 110Hz/12dB & the 70Hz peak sits right on 7mm.


Posted By: Xoc1
Date Posted: 08 December 2014 at 1:41pm
You say the driver is at x-max at 53V on the 70 hz peak so use this to start with.
Then bring in the hi-pass filter so that the first peak is equal at 7mm .
Then forget about the power rating as it is totally theoretical. To actually achieve the x-max excursion you will need to consider thermal compression effects that are likely to be over 3db. So take that 350W figure and double it to 700W and you will be closer to reality. The only way to really check is with a practical full bore test of the speaker.Big smile


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Posted By: lost eden
Date Posted: 16 December 2014 at 6:42pm
Okay, so if I simulate the full 400W/56.6V AES that the driver is rated at, with bandpass filters at 45Hz/-12dB & 110Hz/-12dB, the excursion on the ~48Hz peak reaches ~8.2mm. Is it safe to run the driver like this, because we can assume that if I actually start feeding it anywhere close to 400W the voice coil will get sufficiently hot that power compression means excursion won't actually reach anywhere near 8.2mm? And if it does, with an xmax of 7mm that means 8.2mm is probably within xlim/xmech?


Posted By: Xoc1
Date Posted: 19 December 2014 at 10:13pm
I think you are approaching this from the wrong angle.
It is not really helpful to filter a speaker to death to allow you to to drive it with as much power as possible its just going to get hot and bothered. What frequency are you going to cross over to your mid top? Have you looked at the frequency response of the settings you suggest?

Why not try something like this at 250W 45V

This looks like this in a frequency plot

I doubt that the peak at 200hz would be as bad as the sim and could be filtered with a higher order filter if you have one.
Theoretical power was 250W @ 8 ohms so probably good for at least 500W.
The sim data that you used was very basic and probably not very accurate. Practical testing would be best. Probably this would involve a spot of white paint, a torch, a pair of ear defenders, and some low frequency sweeps at increasing power levels!



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OMG my Daughter has gone prog rock!
http://www.strangeredearth.com/videos/


Posted By: lost eden
Date Posted: 22 December 2014 at 10:24pm
Okay, I probably am looking at this wrong. I'll step back & just ark from a basic position - how do I get the most from my THAM 12 without frying the driver the first time I let a redlining DJ play on it? I'm using a DCX2496 for processing.


Posted By: panos
Date Posted: 22 February 2015 at 12:00pm
hi...
is anyone who can make a simulation at horn resp with helix db12 at tham 12 design...
i'm asking because i don't know how to use horn resp...
here are the driver parameters
http://www.manualslib.com/manual/394176/Helix-Dark-Blue-12.html


Posted By: mini-mad
Date Posted: 22 February 2015 at 1:19pm
Dude, this driver wont work for PA use!
The box may add a few dB to the output but not enuff to my it usefull for PA.



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If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.


Posted By: panos
Date Posted: 22 February 2015 at 2:54pm
i know but i think to make the box now with this driver because i already have it...and after when i will have some money i will buy a pa driver...


Posted By: lost eden
Date Posted: 25 February 2015 at 5:20pm
Got a grill from Markie for mine & started the first coat of Rustins :)




Posted By: lost eden
Date Posted: 21 March 2015 at 2:31pm
This Rustins stuff may smell awful, but I'm starting to get a nice finish with a few more coats :)




Posted By: mini-mad
Date Posted: 21 March 2015 at 2:43pm
looks bloody nice though.....



i did a bad black/green combo



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If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.


Posted By: lost eden
Date Posted: 21 March 2015 at 2:50pm
Yeah I was thinking about a two-tone paintjob like yours, I really like the whole dark colour outside then an accent inside look, but in the end I liked the look of the wood too much! The killer is waiting for the stuff to cure though, takes 3-4 days if you believe the booklet so I'm stuck doing a few coats each weekend :(


Posted By: mini-mad
Date Posted: 21 March 2015 at 3:06pm
stick with it.... it looks lovely!

...prob would have given the edges a half inch round over though. looking back at mine theres a fair bit i should have done a little different. wen i pull my finger out and crack on with all the jobs i need doing 1st and finishing off a few others i WILL build another of these little beasties as i have a second PD waiting to go in.

im currently in the middle of building a very old skool matrix amp rack with a 4U drawer in the bottom for a karaoke system on wheels for the bar at work.

as i said lots of little bits and a few big jobs need doing before i can start another tham12 lol




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If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.


Posted By: lost eden
Date Posted: 21 March 2015 at 3:47pm
I know I should've really done a proper roundover, but I don't own a router so I'd need to find one to borrow/buy & I'd need to either countersink all the screws deeper or remove & fill them all. In the end impatience won out & I just sanded the edges a bit so hopefully they won' tbe quite as susceptible to damage as hard edges...




Posted By: mini-mad
Date Posted: 21 March 2015 at 4:00pm
counter sink or... as im starting to do, wood dowels!

wood dowels hold the two edges in place while glue sets and also aids lateral strength to the but joint (and no more screws to coverup/over).

a router is a pretty good investment. great for finishing and cutting perfect round holes to exact size. there are a fair few other uses too. but well worth the money. you can have a pretty good one for around the £80mark.... but its the bits you buy that make the biggest difference if you ask me.




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If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.


Posted By: kr1sounds
Date Posted: 21 March 2015 at 4:44pm
Originally posted by mini-mad mini-mad wrote:

counter sink or... as im starting to do, wood dowels!

wood dowels hold the two edges in place while glue sets and also aids lateral strength to the but joint (and no more screws to coverup/over).

a router is a pretty good investment. great for finishing and cutting perfect round holes to exact size. there are a fair few other uses too. but well worth the money. you can have a pretty good one for around the £80mark.... but its the bits you buy that make the biggest difference if you ask me.



so screws have been replaced by dowels?


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I MAN SERVE SELASSIE CONTINUALLY... NO MATTER WHAT THE WEAK HEART SAY

fostonshfs.webs.com


Posted By: lost eden
Date Posted: 21 March 2015 at 4:48pm
Tbh one of the reasons I went with screws instead of dowels was to cut down on clamps - I'm guessing with dowels you still need clamps to get enough compression?


Posted By: mini-mad
Date Posted: 21 March 2015 at 5:06pm
the screws are not replaced with dowels.

with dowels, yes you still require clamps.

you COULD use dowels with few screws inbetween and then wen the glue has gone off remove the screws and fill the hoes with saw dust and glue.

screws serve as a mechanical fastener for local clamping where as a clamp has a greater coverage of the same area.

i find owning loads of clamps is always a good idea.




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If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.


Posted By: mini-mad
Date Posted: 21 March 2015 at 5:10pm
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/400747063011?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&var=670292484643&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT" rel="nofollow - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/400747063011?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&var=670292484643&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

900mm clamps.

these are fine for DIY.


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If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.


Posted By: mini-mad
Date Posted: 21 March 2015 at 5:40pm




im not saying you need loads off them but a good 6x 3ft jobbies should give you a good start.
then wen the wife asks you wat you want for your birthday... ASK FOR TOOLS!! (and give her all the web links so you get what your really want and not crap her "mate" said to get)



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If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.


Posted By: lost eden
Date Posted: 21 March 2015 at 9:10pm
I'm sure I'll build up a decent collection of clamps one day (only got 3x cheap 45cm jobs atm), but it's another of those things I keep putting off when I can get by without somehow or other!


Posted By: Dub Specialist Sound
Date Posted: 22 March 2015 at 12:43pm
lmao that some serious sach and clamps man

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Musical Roots Reggae Vibration is Life! for music is sound...sound is vibration...vibration is energy... and energy begets life. Therein lies my passion!...MUSIC IS LIFE...


Posted By: ptiliegewe
Date Posted: 23 March 2015 at 11:59pm

hi ,
in my research i've found your tham 12 and i'm falling in love!
i want make 4, and i've 4 audax pr330t4, i would like your opinion if it's a good deal?
i've also a pair of rcf lf12g301 and i've seen the simu on your blog.
so could you make me a simu with the pr330t4?
for you it's a good solution with the audax or not?
better or not than the rcf?
i like the kick bass more than the 30hz, i'm a little dj with the parties for 100-150/pers.

many thanks and regards,

Philippe

sorry for my English, i'm from belgium and i speak french.



Posted By: mini-mad
Date Posted: 24 March 2015 at 8:11am
If you like kick... have you thought about the MTH30?



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If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.


Posted By: ptiliegewe
Date Posted: 24 March 2015 at 3:57pm
Hi all,
I prefer the design of the tham 12, but if the mth-30 give more kick, it's a good deal for me.
I thought that the tham work like the mth-30(kick) but work better in lower freq. And in a smaller box.
And what about my Audax in the tham or in the mth-30?
Thanks again for the answers
Phil


Posted By: mini-mad
Date Posted: 24 March 2015 at 5:00pm
Im in the middle of building a MTH30 so i'll let you know which is better on kick. Im using the PD as its the driver it was designed for.
Im unable to sim as it just drives me nutts using those programmes.

Im sure if you ask Anders himself on his website and i'm sure he'll help you out.


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If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.


Posted By: ptiliegewe
Date Posted: 24 March 2015 at 5:39pm
Many thanks, i've try to join Martin but i've a problem because the message d'ont go!
Do you have a adress mail for to join Martin?
Regards
Phil


Posted By: martinsson
Date Posted: 24 March 2015 at 8:03pm
Hi Phil

Your mails have gone trough, I just noticed them, sorry for not answering them on time I've just been a bit to busy of late.

I presently do not have hornresp within reach, perhaps some one else could lend a hand if you are in a hurry?

Regarding the MTH30, it's a significantly bigger box, but if that's not a problem then I would suggest going that route, the sensitivity is no doubt higher, given that the SPL capacity should be aswell, not to donplay own design, but it's only fair to you that you know what could be gained by going with the MTH-30 if size is not a problem for you, it's all in the physics.

The THAM12 may have a higher dB/dm3 ratio, the THAM series are all designed to provide great volumetric efficiency given a realistic range with regards to driver size, but that's not the same as to say the will be louder or go lower.


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Swedish Pro-fi diy-nerd - http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/" rel="nofollow - http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/


Posted By: bitSmasher
Date Posted: 24 March 2015 at 9:23pm
Originally posted by mini-mad mini-mad wrote:

Im in the middle of building a MTH30 so i'll let you know which is better on kick
Really curious about this... but wouldn't expect either to compare to a FLH for "kick" impact


Posted By: ptiliegewe
Date Posted: 25 March 2015 at 7:46am
Ok,
Many thanks, î'll start the building for 4 mth-30.
Thanks all and thanks speakersplans.
Phil


Posted By: lost eden
Date Posted: 02 April 2015 at 9:02pm
Rustins is dried, reassembled with the new grille Smile





Posted By: mini-mad
Date Posted: 02 April 2015 at 9:39pm
Very pretty! I like the lazer cut speakon 'dish'

...im still slowly trying to put together a MTH30 but not javing enuff clamps and time has not been on my side lately.

still, very pretty... one of a pair?



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If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.


Posted By: lost eden
Date Posted: 02 April 2015 at 10:00pm
I barely have use for this one, let alone a second - tbh I made it as much for the fun of making it as for actually having any use for it! Sure it'll come in handy sooner or later though ;)


Posted By: all bass
Date Posted: 05 April 2015 at 3:26pm
That custom speaker dish looks the part. I would have made them resessed instead of sticking out like they seem to do now.

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Get your free line array plans here!


Posted By: lost eden
Date Posted: 06 April 2015 at 2:18pm
Recessing so the connectors were flush would leave you with probably only ~3mm thickness of wood to screw into & with how tight the horn is at that corner I wouldn't want to add extra wood for it.


Posted By: dj-b-freak
Date Posted: 15 April 2015 at 12:04pm
hi martinsson!
do you have a logo? to put on the box! just have to print a logo put some epoxy on it, make it flat and we have a hard logo! :p
thanks :)


Posted By: mini-mad
Date Posted: 15 April 2015 at 1:00pm
Originally posted by lost eden lost eden wrote:

Recessing so the connectors were flush would leave you with probably only ~3mm thickness of wood to screw into & with how tight the horn is at that corner I wouldn't want to add extra wood for it.

...a second layer of wood behind it would have cured that :-)



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If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.


Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 15 April 2015 at 5:54pm
Originally posted by mini-mad mini-mad wrote:

Originally posted by lost eden lost eden wrote:

Recessing so the connectors were flush would leave you with probably only ~3mm thickness of wood to screw into & with how tight the horn is at that corner I wouldn't want to add extra wood for it.

...a second layer of wood behind it would have cured that :-)



LOL, but that's what he says he doesn't want to:)


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www.facebook.com/babysoundsystem


Posted By: mini-mad
Date Posted: 15 April 2015 at 7:57pm
Just a small 6mm sliver of would have taken that 3mm upto 9mm and had little to no impact on sound and an 'easy' fix.



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If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.


Posted By: martinsson
Date Posted: 16 April 2015 at 11:02am
Quote do you have a logo? to put on the box!
 
I have not even thought about it, but perhaps it would be nice to have something, this far my only wish is that if the any of the THAM series deisgns are produced and sold by a company that they should keep their designation, i.e THAM18, THAM10 etc. as part of the model name.
 
I have seen THAM's that are produced and sold by companies, both as flat pack's and as fully finished products.
 
For instance if the company Scraphonic Audio Designs (SAD for short) (yepp, ficitive company name) have a THAM18 in their lineup the model would be named SAD THAM18 or Scraphonic Audio Designs THAM18.
 
This raises the question of the logotype, a logo is usually connected to a company, and since I'm not a company I wonder if it would be apropriate? what do you all think? should give it ago or simply leave it be?
 
(The THAM series has never generated any kind of money for me, not even donations, nothing, but that's ok, that was never my intention or motivation)


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Swedish Pro-fi diy-nerd - http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/" rel="nofollow - http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/


Posted By: lost eden
Date Posted: 16 April 2015 at 11:15am
Originally posted by martinsson martinsson wrote:

Quote do you have a logo? to put on the box!
I have not even thought about it, but perhaps it would be nice to have something, this far my only wish is that if the any of the THAM series deisgns are produced and sold by a company that they should keep their designation, i.e THAM18, THAM10 etc. as part of the model name.

For instance if the company Scraphonic Audio Designs (SAD for short) (yepp, ficitive company name) have a THAM18 in their lineup the model would be named SAD THAM18 or Scraphonic Audio Designs THAM18.

:)




Posted By: bitSmasher
Date Posted: 16 April 2015 at 11:57am
comic sans please .


Posted By: 4AC
Date Posted: 16 April 2015 at 1:28pm


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uǝɿɿɐʌǝ6ɯo sı ʇsʞǝʇ ǝzǝp


Posted By: 4AC
Date Posted: 16 April 2015 at 1:32pm
Originally posted by bitSmasher bitSmasher wrote:

comic sans please .




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uǝɿɿɐʌǝ6ɯo sı ʇsʞǝʇ ǝzǝp


Posted By: 4AC
Date Posted: 16 April 2015 at 1:35pm


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uǝɿɿɐʌǝ6ɯo sı ʇsʞǝʇ ǝzǝp


Posted By: martinsson
Date Posted: 16 April 2015 at 8:26pm
Thanks! I'm almost touched :)

is that "Martinsson made...something" or "Martinsson... made something" :)

Really nice job on the connector panel, that is exactly how I would like to see it done, and I'm really happy to see an example, thanks for sharing!

Regarding logos, I made some quick proposals, now remember this is just for fun, and I'm not a graphic designer (I'm an automotive design engineer) :)




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Swedish Pro-fi diy-nerd - http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/" rel="nofollow - http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/



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