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MT121 Drivers...

Printed From: Speakerplans.com
Category: Plans
Forum Name: MT122
Forum Description: Discussion / Questions about the MT122
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=65157
Printed Date: 03 December 2021 at 4:45pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: MT121 Drivers...
Posted By: Rawcardo
Subject: MT121 Drivers...
Date Posted: 23 March 2012 at 2:48am
MT121

B&C 12PE32 or B&C 12ndl76?





Replies:
Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 23 March 2012 at 9:39am
as i said last night ive used both, the ndl wins for me, very warm sound and it makes the box alot lighter.......



Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 23 March 2012 at 9:40am
ill dig a plott out of both drivers in the mt


Posted By: PISSHEAD
Date Posted: 23 March 2012 at 10:08am
12pe32-freq- 50-4000k--250w--- 7.6kg--£131 each (Blue Aran price)

12ndl76-freq-50-2000k--400w---3.9kg---£239 each

Both are good drivers and the cost for me would determine which one I'll pick. Pe32 goes up higher.


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The 'drunken master' strikes again.


Posted By: vibez
Date Posted: 23 March 2012 at 10:13am
Originally posted by PISSHEAD PISSHEAD wrote:

12pe32-freq- 50-4000k--250w--- 7.6kg--£131 each (Blue Aran price)


12ndl76-freq-50-2000k--400w---3.9kg---£239 each

Both are good drivers and the cost for me would determine which one I'll pick. Pe32 goes up higher.



surely you would cross to c/d's well under 4k anyway??? I cross mine at 1.3k.


Posted By: Rawcardo
Date Posted: 23 March 2012 at 2:46pm
Ya I think the 12ndl76 will do the trick... Thanks guys!


Posted By: PISSHEAD
Date Posted: 24 March 2012 at 8:36am
Vibes, You can play the pe32 upto 4k and still cross your cd at 1.3k using a BSS minidrive.

-------------
The 'drunken master' strikes again.


Posted By: PISSHEAD
Date Posted: 24 March 2012 at 8:43am
Bee, I know you said you like the 12ndl76 better, at which crossover type/slope did you use?

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The 'drunken master' strikes again.


Posted By: vibez
Date Posted: 24 March 2012 at 9:11am
Originally posted by PISSHEAD PISSHEAD wrote:

Vibes, You can play the pe32 upto 4k and still cross your cd at 1.3k using a BSS minidrive.



oh i agree it can be played up to 4k, as you can with many drivers including the bms 12's that i use. but my question related more to the fact of how efficient will any 12" driver be at 4k??? More efficient than a compression driver??? I dont think so.

I cross my cd at 1.3k but play my 12's upto 2.5ish with a little bit of eq on the 12's around the crossover point because they start to roll off around 2k even though they can apparently play upto 4k according to the specs. they will of course hit 4k but just not better than a cd so it just seems rather pointless. please don't consider my post as critisism as i'm no proffesional, it's just my opinion after running mt's for a couple of years.


Posted By: vibez
Date Posted: 24 March 2012 at 9:14am
@pisshead where are you based in the midlands?


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 24 March 2012 at 11:50am
Vibez, you overlap the 12 and the HF? Which BMS you use?

-------------
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: mykey-
Date Posted: 24 March 2012 at 12:15pm
how can they overlap if it doesn't meet the comp in the first place? Wacko

view this graph for a double

http://forum.speakerplans.com/topic15865&KW=MT122_post153570.html#153570



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BbbBBRAAAAPppBBBBbgushhhhhhhhssshhhhhGrAbRAAAAAAPPPPPp = Dubstep


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 24 March 2012 at 1:21pm
It depends on the driver Mykey, 1.3Khz is fine if you use 12db slope. it will bump the graph a bit at the crossover point. So it might get flat. Dunno this is just a theory.

-------------
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: Rawcardo
Date Posted: 24 March 2012 at 4:18pm
Sometimes it think you guys just want to confuse the hell out of the new guy....
is the 12ndl76 still my first choice?

when it comedown to setting up the amps and xovers and stuff im gonna a hire a pro to come in a tune everything...


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 24 March 2012 at 5:23pm
If it was me doing mt122 i would go for higher powered 12s. At least 600w.

-------------
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: vibez
Date Posted: 24 March 2012 at 6:22pm
Yes i do overlap where my 12's and cd's meet, this is the only crossover point to overlap to get a flat response however i cannot remember the exact slopes used but will check on my lms next time i power it up and post for you. crossover points and slopes were all setup by tony wilkes using his computer software and measuring mic but as to which program was used you would need to ask tony directly. as i said i am no proffesional and will not say that the way i run mine is the right or wrong way to do it as i believe that different people have different preferences to the way they like a rig to sound and i am happy with what i have got and thats all i cate about.
I use 12s310 ferrite drivers that are no longer in production, they are 400w each powered by matrix ukp2100. I find them plenty loud enough given the efficiency of the mt cabs.


Posted By: vibez
Date Posted: 24 March 2012 at 6:30pm
Originally posted by Rawcardo Rawcardo wrote:

Sometimes it think you guys just want to confuse the hell out of the new guy....
is the 12ndl76 still my first choice?

when it comedown to setting up the amps and xovers and stuff im gonna a hire a pro to come in a tune everything...




i have heard many people say they are happy with these but haven't heard them myself however i think this is what bee had his mt121's loaded with so his advice is probably among the best you can get on here, he's a honest bloke. i would assume that this would be a good option but i'm sure others that have used them will confirm for you. don't get to confused by the complex posts, just remember that the more you read/ask the more you will learn.


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 24 March 2012 at 6:40pm
Vibez, you can still order them to be built ;-).

-------------
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: vibez
Date Posted: 24 March 2012 at 8:39pm
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

Vibez, you can still order them to be built ;-).


i thought they had been discontinued but after checking the bms site it seems you are correct. Think i'm going to load my mt121's with them then get some neo's for the122's and upgrade my cd's towards the end of the year.


Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 24 March 2012 at 9:54pm
the b&c rout is because that's what Rawcardo can get in his country (not uk), think it was new Zealand........   i crossed over at 1.4k to the 1" comp but let the 12" run out to 2K between 1.3 and 2K both the 12 and 1" worked the same freq...... you will need to take time the first time you set them up to get them time aligned together........ i used the smaart live software to help, i managed to get a very flat response with a bit of eq, but did spend a good day or so playing with the lms....... the 12ndl being a neo makes these boxes an easy one man lift.


Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 24 March 2012 at 9:56pm
if i get time ill call up the settings on my lms if i still have them, may be of help, but you would still need to eq them as your amps mixer etc would be different to mine and different eq would be needed....


Posted By: jwdrain
Date Posted: 25 March 2012 at 2:53pm
Would the 200 watt P Audio SN12MB be large enough for an MT121 or should i be looking for something a bit more powerful?


Posted By: Father-Francis
Date Posted: 25 March 2012 at 3:26pm
Originally posted by jwdrain jwdrain wrote:

Would the 200 watt P Audio SN12MB be large enough for an MT121 or should i be looking for something a bit more powerful?


what does it say on the plans ????
http://www.speakerplans.com/index.php?id=mt122" rel="nofollow - http://www.speakerplans.com/index.php?id=mt122




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Music is the strongest form of magic.(+45 31879997)blakmanpro@gmail.com


Posted By: jwdrain
Date Posted: 25 March 2012 at 3:29pm
thats the 122 i was on about the 121, is there a difference? im sorry, im aware im a noob but i just thought it might be appropriate on this topic to ask the question seeing as that is what its addressing.


Posted By: Father-Francis
Date Posted: 25 March 2012 at 4:43pm
the difference is that 122 has 2*12"drivers and the 121 has 1 , it´s more or less the seem thing 

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Music is the strongest form of magic.(+45 31879997)blakmanpro@gmail.com


Posted By: jwdrain
Date Posted: 25 March 2012 at 8:06pm
ah yeah i knew that, i just meant does the fact that theres 2 drivers in the 122 mean you can get away with the small 200watt sn12bs but with 121s you have to use something bigger? or could you get away with using a 200 watt driver?


Posted By: PISSHEAD
Date Posted: 31 March 2012 at 9:10am
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

If it was me doing mt122 i would go for higher powered 12s. At least 600w.


Just out curiosity Marjan, why go for a higherpower 12''?..  say if your crossing the 12'' @ 120hz/130hz wouldn't a 300w be sufficient because all you want is vocal mid and won't be getting much mid bass.  The speakers high sensitivity will ensure that the loudness is there.  Would it be overkill (indoors) if higher power 12'' is used?


-------------
The 'drunken master' strikes again.


Posted By: vibez
Date Posted: 31 March 2012 at 4:20pm
Originally posted by PISSHEAD PISSHEAD wrote:


Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

If it was me doing mt122 i would go for higher powered 12s. At least 600w.


Just out curiosity Marjan, why go for a higherpower 12''?..  say if your crossing the 12'' @ 120hz/130hz wouldn't a 300w be sufficient because all you want is vocal mid and won't be getting much mid bass.  The speakers high sensitivity will ensure that the loudness is there.  Would it be overkill (indoors) if higher power 12'' is used?


i guess it depends how loud you need your mid to be, this will differ for each rig/user, my advice would be to set yourself a max budget then buy the best drivers you can within that budget.


Posted By: mykey-
Date Posted: 26 June 2012 at 6:05am
Originally posted by PISSHEAD PISSHEAD wrote:

Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

If it was me doing mt122 i would go for higher powered 12s. At least 600w.


Just out curiosity Marjan, why go for a higherpower 12''?..  say if your crossing the 12'' @ 120hz/130hz wouldn't a 300w be sufficient because all you want is vocal mid and won't be getting much mid bass.  The speakers high sensitivity will ensure that the loudness is there.  Would it be overkill (indoors) if higher power 12'' is used?
yeah doesn't make any sense to me

Higher fs and high sensitivity is whats needed


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BbbBBRAAAAPppBBBBbgushhhhhhhhssshhhhhGrAbRAAAAAAPPPPPp = Dubstep


Posted By: tamuks
Date Posted: 26 June 2012 at 6:45am
600watts drivers are sometime usefull when you face bigger crouds off 1000+ people so loading high power drivers might save u   sometimes in going home with burnt drivers. unless if u are to use say 4 cabs then 300 watts is ok

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K.A.S.S the art of digital sound entertainment


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 26 June 2012 at 1:07pm
I am talking high sensitivity 600W drivers.

-------------
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: VlatkoT
Date Posted: 26 June 2012 at 7:44pm
Do they exist?I mean high sensitivity 12's with more than 400W rms?

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Why to live 7 days like a poor idiot When you can live 100 years like billioner


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 26 June 2012 at 8:06pm
Yeah they do. BMS have one for start. Then the P-Audio SN12MB and so on..

-------------
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 26 June 2012 at 9:55pm
been following this one, the thing about high power drivers 600w etc.... yes they will be louder, but if the venues you do need this kind of power from a mid high box then im sure you would be purchasing rider friendly cabs......  not diy ones..... all so if the venues need more power from the mid high boxes one thing to look at would be dispersion and placement of the cabs, in which case you would need more mt's anyway to spread the sound.......  1 mt on its own has a narrow ish dispersion but 2 together cover a lot more of the venue......  i would rather use 2 cabs and have a good coverage than one but have narrow coverage (per side).......  

Ive built and tested more mt's than my memory can remember, with pd, b&c, celestion, beyma, rcf, jbl drivers... the list goes on.... on paper there are a few drivers that are all most the same on paper, so my choice for this cab comes down to listening tests only......

After many many hours of trying to get the best from this cab, my choice of xovers is 1.2 to 1.3k for the 1" comps but you will need to let the 12" driver roll off at around 2k this helps get rid of the dip that people talk about..... using a 2"comp you can cross straight over at about 900hz.... and about 1k with a 1.4 comp.... with the 12" rolling out at about 1.5k. A small amount of eq is needed around xover points to get a smooth response....... 

i don't and cant see the need for a 600w driver in this cab, its very very efficient as it is, and you would then limit your self to the high end comps only as the cheaper ones would not keep up with the 12...... more power from mid high cabs is good only if you have the dispersion you need to cover a venue all ready........  


Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 26 June 2012 at 9:58pm
tamuks six of the mt121's will do 1000 people with out the 600w driver..... 3 per side


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 26 June 2012 at 10:56pm
Sure that is all fine with me. Just the 600W driver will have a nice and comfortable life :-)

-------------
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 26 June 2012 at 11:13pm
this is a different issue marjan, any driver not put under stress will last longer and sound better..... but in the diy world is the extra £100 for a 600w driver that will only get 400w max be value for money or even be cost effective....... 


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 26 June 2012 at 11:30pm
Bee, the new SN12MB is not a very expensive driver. And to be honest, for 6 boxes (3 per side) that will cover most of what diy people would be able to do, 600 bucks more to make them better and louder then the competitors boxes is something worth investing in. 
At least as i am thinking anyway.


-------------
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: UpComingSound
Date Posted: 26 June 2012 at 11:41pm
B&C 12HPL76 12 inch NEO woofers


Posted By: UpComingSound
Date Posted: 26 June 2012 at 11:42pm
B&C 12HPL76 12 inch NEO woofers is that good woofer for the mt121


Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 26 June 2012 at 11:42pm
true margan but how loud do we need to go, its ok having massive spl but can you use cabs to this level..... So many venues these days have strict noise levels, The only legal venues that you could get away with using this kind of spl in my area is about 0......  lol..... having the spl if you need it is allways a nice feeling but in truth how many of us use it...... that kind of spl from a top cab would need just as much from the kick sections and sub sections to keep a level system....

From a better 12" horn were the dispertion is better and you could get away with using one a side then 600w drivers start to come into there own.....Wink but this is not a diy thing, as most people wont attempt glass horns, bungs etc....

from the specs it looks like a nice driver, i may get one and have a play......


Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 26 June 2012 at 11:48pm
Originally posted by UpComingSound UpComingSound wrote:

B&C 12HPL76 12 inch NEO woofers is that good woofer for the mt121

you can horn load this speaker, but its more suited to kick or high sub......
look for a higher fs driver.....


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 27 June 2012 at 12:51am
No SPL limits here Bee :-)



-------------
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: tamuks
Date Posted: 27 June 2012 at 6:45am
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

Sure that is all fine with me. Just the 600W driver will have a nice and comfortable life :-)
+1 for that especialy when you get more than 4 big outing per mounth with your rig. l think the high power drivers go with how much you charge per outing as in proper tools are allways expensive

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K.A.S.S the art of digital sound entertainment


Posted By: mykey-
Date Posted: 27 June 2012 at 10:41am
Originally posted by bee bee wrote:

this is a different issue marjan, any driver not put under stress will last longer and sound better..... but in the diy world is the extra £100 for a 600w driver that will only get 400w max be value for money or even be cost effective....... 
the bandwidth of this design is 'midrange', so the cone won't hardly be moving. Why would you want to use 600 watts


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BbbBBRAAAAPppBBBBbgushhhhhhhhssshhhhhGrAbRAAAAAAPPPPPp = Dubstep


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 27 June 2012 at 11:50am
Originally posted by mykey- mykey- wrote:

Originally posted by bee bee wrote:

this is a different issue marjan, any driver not put under stress will last longer and sound better..... but in the diy world is the extra £100 for a 600w driver that will only get 400w max be value for money or even be cost effective....... 
the bandwidth of this design is 'midrange', so the cone won't hardly be moving. Why would you want to use 600 watts

Because 600W will be 3db louder then 300W maybe?


-------------
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: tamuks
Date Posted: 27 June 2012 at 12:52pm
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:


Originally posted by mykey- mykey- wrote:


Originally posted by bee bee wrote:

this is a different issue marjan, any driver not put under stress will last longer and sound better..... but in the diy world is the extra £100 for a 600w driver that will only get 400w max be value for money or even be cost effective....... 
the bandwidth of this design is 'midrange', so the cone won't hardly be moving. Why would you want to use 600 watts


Because 600W will be 3db louder then 300W maybe?
+1 for that and more clearer than 300watts

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K.A.S.S the art of digital sound entertainment


Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 27 June 2012 at 1:49pm
clearer.........  watts wont make a driver sound clearer, thats what the engineers job is....... more watts does not make a driver better than a 300w one...... an efficient 300w driver will out perform a very poor efficient 600w driver........


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 27 June 2012 at 2:33pm
True but an efficient 600W driven with 300W will surely sound cleaner then 300W driver driven with 300W at its limits.

-------------
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 27 June 2012 at 3:03pm
this is true marjan, but any driver thrashed to an inch of its life will sound bad..... for me i would rather take more cabs and have better coverage, than narrow but loud coverage.....


Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 27 June 2012 at 3:17pm
just a quick horn i done using horn resp nothing special...... showing the b and c verses the p audio driver......




Posted By: tamuks
Date Posted: 27 June 2012 at 3:36pm
Originally posted by bee bee wrote:

more watts does not make a driver better than a 300w one...... an EFFICIENT 300w driver will out perform a VERYPOOR efficient 600w driver........
no one said use a Very poor driver here .we are all using efficient good reproductive drivers like Pds,p audio.eminence etc. or you saying the drivers mentioned here are very poor?or u just like b&c

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K.A.S.S the art of digital sound entertainment


Posted By: PISSHEAD
Date Posted: 27 June 2012 at 3:39pm
Bee,
What driver do you recommend?


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The 'drunken master' strikes again.


Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 27 June 2012 at 3:50pm
not at all tamuks...... some of us no the difference between a good 300w driver and a poor one lol... all drivers we have talked about hear are of good build, and sound......and it is true that what you pay for is what you get...... don't take me wrong the b&c which is my personal fav in the mt is rated peak at 800w........ this is not a 300w driver..........  for me the horn itself plays a big part in what would be my ideal choice of driver, a lot of factors are taken in to consideration before the horn has even been designed when designing from scratch.....  But through experience in the field..... i will all ways opt for better coverage, even if it means i take 3 boxes a side to a very high powered 1 box setup.....  a good even spread of sound is far better than a narrow high slp one...... 

In the quest for more and more spl, are we not missing the basics out, in that a system should sound balanced, clean and clear in all parts of a venue..... not just slap bang in front of a stack... with hf that will take your eye balls out, or all sub and no tops.......


Posted By: jwdrain
Date Posted: 27 June 2012 at 9:39pm
What do people recommend crossing their MT 121s at? I've had a good read about the forum but can't find any recommendations, noticed on this thread though there was some debating between whether or not its a good idea to cross them..

My MT 121s are loaded with PD 123 ERs and JBL 2445 Hs. I did it by ear by what I thought sounded best, the 12s are working between 180-2200 and the Comps are 1200+, does this sound like it should be about right or should they not overlap??


Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 27 June 2012 at 9:46pm
the issue with the mt121 is there is a big dip in the response around 900 and rolls out, so to get it to meet the horn you need a 1" or 1.4" comp that can play low..... which there is not that many that can.... so if you xover at about 1.2 to 1.3 k and let the 12" roll off naturally to about 2 to 2.5k this help smooth out the response, and removes the dip in the response, and a little eq...... 

you dont get the same dip with the mt122, as both the 12" coupled to a 2" gives a fairly flat curve....


Posted By: jwdrain
Date Posted: 27 June 2012 at 10:51pm
thats one of the reasons i went for the JBL 2445h, it gets seriously low! The guy I bought it off said he crossed his as low as 500, but I wanted it to sound clean and I seriously can't afford to be replacing expensive JBL parts, so i thought crossing it at 1.2 k would make it harder to blow. So is my current arrangement alright? (12 handling 180-2.2K, comps 1.3+) Or should I lower the comps to 1K to smooth out the dip better?


Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 27 June 2012 at 10:54pm
sounds ok to me, the only real way to see how bad a dip you may have or have not, is to do some readings using software like smaart etc with an rta mic...... but from looking at the comp specs it seems good to me.....


Posted By: jwdrain
Date Posted: 27 June 2012 at 11:16pm
are phase plugs available for MT 121s?


Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 27 June 2012 at 11:22pm
no, you would need to design a new horn from scratch to fit a plug......


Posted By: Andy Kos
Date Posted: 28 June 2012 at 1:07am
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

True but an efficient 600W driven with 300W will surely sound cleaner then 300W driver driven with 300W at its limits.
 
Surely the power handling is just a measure of what the voice coil can take before it starts overheating and failing, and not necessarily anything to do with the mechanical limitations of what the driver can achieve.
 
Some top of the range active speaker boxes with dedicated internal LMS often push drivers beyond their 'published' RMS power handling, as they have fine tuned everything for optimum performance. FBT often take B&C drivers and run them well beyond published power handling with no noticeable drop in sound quality.


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just a guy with a warehouse and a few speakers... www.bluearan.co.uk


Posted By: mykey-
Date Posted: 28 June 2012 at 8:38am
Originally posted by bee bee wrote:

no, you would need to design a new horn from scratch to fit a plug......
just done one

I'll put up some pics


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BbbBBRAAAAPppBBBBbgushhhhhhhhssshhhhhGrAbRAAAAAAPPPPPp = Dubstep


Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 28 June 2012 at 9:04am
 Thumbs Up


Posted By: pfly
Date Posted: 28 June 2012 at 10:18pm
Originally posted by mykey- mykey- wrote:

Originally posted by bee bee wrote:

no, you would need to design a new horn from scratch to fit a plug......
just done one

I'll put up some pics





Posted By: smoore
Date Posted: 28 June 2012 at 10:42pm
Originally posted by pfly pfly wrote:

Originally posted by mykey- mykey- wrote:

Originally posted by bee bee wrote:

no, you would need to design a new horn from scratch to fit a plug......
just done one

I'll put up some pics



 
Hahaha


Posted By: kevinmcdonough
Date Posted: 28 June 2012 at 11:26pm
Originally posted by mykey- mykey- wrote:

Originally posted by bee bee wrote:

no, you would need to design a new horn from scratch to fit a plug......
just done one

I'll put up some pics



hahaha, you know I love you to bits Mykey, but.....

...when people are discussing a design or configuration of speakers you do have a rather annoying habit of turning up and showing off! Tongue Posting some cryptic photos or tantalising plots of a cab you have designed that out performs whatever is being discussed.

LOL in all seriousness, I realise most of these are commercial designs and you couldn't just share the plans. But a few more details/tips/ideas about how you work your magic would be a huge help for us in the cheap seats who don't have the experience and skill you do Big smile


k


Posted By: mykey-
Date Posted: 29 June 2012 at 4:34am
LOL

Ask ligwa, hes lovable. I'm not so hehe

The 'SP12' will be sold as a spare part same as the XT8 is. It's to replace the gap the Porn Horn left behind


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BbbBBRAAAAPppBBBBbgushhhhhhhhssshhhhhGrAbRAAAAAAPPPPPp = Dubstep


Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 29 June 2012 at 1:31pm
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

True but an efficient 600W driven with 300W will surely sound cleaner then 300W driver driven with 300W at its limits.


600W driver will have larger/longer/thicker voice coil. High power drivers and efficiency are a contradiction in terms. Tradeoff between efficiency & driver strength is needed.

4x MT121s, with half decent drivers  (FANE/PD/Eminence/Celestion), easily covers 500+ people.

When I say easily, I mean 2x per channel of a QSC RMX 2450, and volume pots were at 10 o'clock.




Apparently people were dancing to the music 1/2 a mile away, and even though stack was in Broadwater Farm Tottenham, system could still be heard in Wood Green, not bad for 1x 4x scoop stack.




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"Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy".


Posted By: kevinmcdonough
Date Posted: 29 June 2012 at 2:19pm
Originally posted by levyte357 levyte357 wrote:

Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

True but an efficient 600W driven with 300W will surely sound cleaner then 300W driver driven with 300W at its limits.


600W driver will have larger/longer/thicker voice coil. High power drivers and efficiency are a contradiction in terms. Tradeoff between efficiency & driver strength is needed.




For the most part this is true. Especially noticable in car subwooder drivers, where the "arms race" of being able to say your driver handles a billion watts more than the competitor, but the sensitivities are pants for exactly this reason.

However there are a few exceptions. BMS do the 12n810 (think thats the right code Smile) doing 600w at 100db and eighteensound do a few but most noticeably a very cost effective ferrite driver that does 600w at 102db that I'm VERY interested in at the moment for some MT-130 style cabs.

So yeah it is possible, but as Lev says these are few and far between.


k


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 29 June 2012 at 2:34pm
It all depends what you want to achieve. If you put 1000W driver that id 98bb but able to go down to 100Hz and cut it at 600Hz to a BMS4592 coax MF/HF then you get a lot more advantage.

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Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 29 June 2012 at 2:55pm
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

It all depends what you want to achieve.


Yep.

If you have the budget, for the desired driver selection, then go for it.

Some of us in UK go for "bang per buck solution", which means PD in MT121, strong driver, high SPL, cheap price. Embarrassed


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"Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy".


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 29 June 2012 at 4:16pm
Yes but funny thing is that PD is only cheap in UK. Here i can get it for almost 20% more then the BMS 12 inch which is by far more superior then the PD.

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Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: mykey-
Date Posted: 29 June 2012 at 4:49pm
will get better pics later


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BbbBBRAAAAPppBBBBbgushhhhhhhhssshhhhhGrAbRAAAAAAPPPPPp = Dubstep


Posted By: tamuks
Date Posted: 29 June 2012 at 4:55pm
Originally posted by mykey- mykey- wrote:


Originally posted by bee bee wrote:

no, you would need to design a new horn from scratch to fit a plug......
just done one

I'll put up some pics


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K.A.S.S the art of digital sound entertainment


Posted By: tamuks
Date Posted: 29 June 2012 at 4:56pm
Originally posted by mykey- mykey- wrote:


Originally posted by bee bee wrote:

no, you would need to design a new horn from scratch to fit a plug......
just done one

I'll put up some pics
l would very much like to see the pics hey as l have too something similar

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K.A.S.S the art of digital sound entertainment


Posted By: tamuks
Date Posted: 29 June 2012 at 4:59pm
Originally posted by mykey- mykey- wrote:

will get better pics later


nice mikey nice heres Tmk 12

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K.A.S.S the art of digital sound entertainment


Posted By: mykey-
Date Posted: 29 June 2012 at 5:12pm
  Its nothing like it apart from them both being horns

shouldn't it be on it's side? seems you have the wider dispersion going the wrong way

Do you like the sound of it, whats it loaded with?




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BbbBBRAAAAPppBBBBbgushhhhhhhhssshhhhhGrAbRAAAAAAPPPPPp = Dubstep


Posted By: tamuks
Date Posted: 29 June 2012 at 5:35pm
Originally posted by mykey- mykey- wrote:

  Its nothing like it apart from them both being horns

shouldn't it be on it's side? seems you have the wider dispersion going the wrong way

Do you like the sound of it, whats it loaded with?




these cabs wil not be used upright for a start and lm still prototyping not yet finished with this one but l can assure you they are'nt bad hey

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K.A.S.S the art of digital sound entertainment


Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 29 June 2012 at 11:00pm
very nice mykey...

tamuk, if these are to be used on there side, turn the phase plug 90 degrees... it will look a lot better, and will have no change on how it works. allso the hf horn will have issues with dispersion if you have them on there side.... You may be best to turn the horn and use as they are in your pic.... 
keep up the good work, its great to see people having a go........


Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 29 June 2012 at 11:18pm
something like this....



Posted By: Andy Kos
Date Posted: 29 June 2012 at 11:46pm
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

Yes but funny thing is that PD is only cheap in UK. Here i can get it for almost 20% more then the BMS 12 inch which is by far more superior then the PD.
 
What sort of money is the PD123ER going for over there?


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just a guy with a warehouse and a few speakers... www.bluearan.co.uk


Posted By: Andy Kos
Date Posted: 29 June 2012 at 11:50pm
Originally posted by bee bee wrote:

something like this....

that looks right to me...


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just a guy with a warehouse and a few speakers... www.bluearan.co.uk


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 30 June 2012 at 12:04am
Originally posted by Andy Kos Andy Kos wrote:

Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

Yes but funny thing is that PD is only cheap in UK. Here i can get it for almost 20% more then the BMS 12 inch which is by far more superior then the PD.
 
What sort of money is the PD123ER going for over there?
No one stock PD here so has to be ordered from UK. Transport, import cost .... goes up to 650 euro for PD1850. 
No idea about the 123 atm but 1850 price should let you know the difference.


-------------
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: Andy Kos
Date Posted: 30 June 2012 at 12:37am
650 euros sounds a lot.. Im sure there are possibilities for getting the costs down.

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just a guy with a warehouse and a few speakers... www.bluearan.co.uk


Posted By: Adam_Iron_Horse
Date Posted: 30 June 2012 at 9:14am
surely this'd be the cheapest way?
http://www.thomann.de/gb/precision_devices_pd1850.htm


Posted By: Father-Francis
Date Posted: 30 June 2012 at 9:59am
Originally posted by mykey- mykey- wrote:

will get better pics later


looking good Mike Clap
No one stock PD here so has to be ordered from UK. Transport, import cost .... goes up to 650 euro for PD1850. 
No idea about the 123 atm but 1850 price should let you know the difference., We can get them in Kenya for 380GBP



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Music is the strongest form of magic.(+45 31879997)blakmanpro@gmail.com


Posted By: Adam_Iron_Horse
Date Posted: 30 June 2012 at 10:45am
shipping from thomann to macedonia (going by your location on your profile) is only 40 euro. think the totals about 440 euros or something for an 1850 shipped there... Or will you get charged import tax on top of that?


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 30 June 2012 at 11:29am
No import charge for EU products. Also as we are out of EU 30kg package is about 100 eur to deliver.
Anyhow PD drivers are not popular here and i have no interest in them anyway.


-------------
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: Keen
Date Posted: 05 July 2012 at 12:41pm
Originally posted by mykey- mykey- wrote:

will get better pics later

what driver?


Posted By: UpComingSound
Date Posted: 11 July 2012 at 11:03pm
RCF L12/854K 12" Midbass Speaker i think the rcf L12/854k will work good in the mt121


Posted By: mykey-
Date Posted: 12 July 2012 at 7:34am
Originally posted by Keen Keen wrote:

Originally posted by mykey- mykey- wrote:

will get better pics later
 

what driver?
what do you haveWink


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BbbBBRAAAAPppBBBBbgushhhhhhhhssshhhhhGrAbRAAAAAAPPPPPp = Dubstep


Posted By: Keen
Date Posted: 12 July 2012 at 10:05am
12ndl76


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 06 August 2012 at 3:16pm
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

No SPL limits here Bee :-)



Used 7x MT121s to cover 2000 people, indoor gig,  on Sat night.

And the  amps driving 12s  were still only at 1'oclock max.


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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 06 August 2012 at 3:58pm
Lev used 4 new tops to cover 3000 the other week, and we did not need to push them....... nice work.....


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 06 August 2012 at 4:03pm
Originally posted by bee bee wrote:

Lev used 4 new tops to cover 3000 the other week, and we did not need to push them....... nice work.....


Are your cabs are 2x12?

Paudio SN12B are sensitive, and reach high, but thin on lower mid.


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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 06 August 2012 at 4:07pm
Not saying what they are yet...... watch out for the official launch coming soon......


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 06 August 2012 at 4:52pm
Originally posted by bee bee wrote:

Not saying what they are yet...... watch out for the official launch coming soon......


OK, I was talking about the older cabs.

Which 12" driver did LIGWA use in these?

Centy Sound



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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 06 August 2012 at 6:14pm
thats a 4 way cab 12" kick 12" mid hf and bullits......


Posted By: knet94
Date Posted: 06 August 2012 at 6:31pm
No bullets, a 2" compression driver and 2x1" comps.


Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 06 August 2012 at 6:34pm
sorry lev yes correct Ken lol i should no that face palm moment.....



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