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BMS 12" VS PD12" for hornloading.

Printed From: Speakerplans.com
Category: Plans
Forum Name: MT122
Forum Description: Discussion / Questions about the MT122
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=67256
Printed Date: 28 March 2024 at 6:05pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.06 - https://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: BMS 12" VS PD12" for hornloading.
Posted By: Aztor
Subject: BMS 12" VS PD12" for hornloading.
Date Posted: 22 May 2012 at 11:40am
Anyone tried BMS & PD drivers for horn loading in  a MT122 or similar box? What does sound the best? And what's the differences in sound? What BMS drivers are recommended?


Changed the topic to fit the discussion. Wink



Replies:
Posted By: Tony Wilkes
Date Posted: 22 May 2012 at 12:04pm
Do you mean the BMS 12N810?  12N820 is the wrong driver for an MT. Massive difference in price,

Tony


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www.forteaudio.eu - BMS - db-Mark Processors - Lexon (SAE)


Posted By: Aztor
Date Posted: 22 May 2012 at 12:18pm
I know the difference in price. Wink Just wondering what I'm getting when paying more.

The 820 has EBP of 197, while the EBP of the 810 is 217. Pd123ER has 235.

How is the 12N810 compared to PD123ER or PD121?


Posted By: phildat
Date Posted: 22 May 2012 at 12:47pm
i use BMS 12s in mine. They are the... 12 310s?? help me out Tony...i forget.  Either way. they sound great..  

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Its just a ride.


Posted By: Tony Wilkes
Date Posted: 22 May 2012 at 7:38pm
Originally posted by phildat phildat wrote:

i use BMS 12s in mine. They are the... 12 310s?? help me out Tony...i forget.  Either way. they sound great..  


Phil, If they are Neo's they will be the 12N610 and Ferrite the 12S310, , I think that they were the Ferrite.

Tony


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www.forteaudio.eu - BMS - db-Mark Processors - Lexon (SAE)


Posted By: vibez
Date Posted: 27 May 2012 at 10:33am
I also run 12s310's in my mt122's but have pd123er loaded mt121's
i prefer the sound of the bms, much more detail to my ears and go louder than the pd's. the pd123 does sound very good but the bms is nicer.


Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 27 May 2012 at 11:57am
Originally posted by Tony Wilkes Tony Wilkes wrote:

Originally posted by phildat phildat wrote:

i use BMS 12s in mine. They are the... 12 310s?? help me out Tony...i forget.  Either way. they sound great..  


Phil, If they are Neo's they will be the 12N610 and Ferrite the 12S310, , I think that they were the Ferrite.

Tony


If you know the right man, PD123ER can be had for approx £100, what are the 12S310 prices?

Haven't seen it on BA.


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"Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy".


Posted By: Aztor
Date Posted: 27 May 2012 at 3:32pm
How would BMS 12s320 be compared to the PD123ER?



Posted By: Tony Wilkes
Date Posted: 28 May 2012 at 5:30am
Originally posted by Aztor Aztor wrote:

How would BMS 12s320 be compared to the PD123ER?



Badly in terms of output in a horn for 200hz and up, The 12S320 is a reflex driver and a rather nice one at that.

For Horn use  BMS 12S310, 12N610 or if you have won the lottery 12N810

Tony


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www.forteaudio.eu - BMS - db-Mark Processors - Lexon (SAE)


Posted By: Aztor
Date Posted: 28 May 2012 at 1:18pm
Thanks Tony. Wise words from the BMS Guru. Clap

How would you compare the different BMS drivers against each other? BMS 12S310, 12N610 or 12N810

Add on: Whats the going price on the 810? Is 230£ + vat cheap? or normal?


Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 28 May 2012 at 1:48pm
Haven't seen price for the BMS12S310, but the 12S320 from Adam Hall is £224.36. Shocked

Not sure if that's UK price, price incl VAT @ 19% (Germany)...

So wondering what the price of recone kit would be..


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"Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy".


Posted By: kevinmcdonough
Date Posted: 28 May 2012 at 3:48pm
hey

I would pretty much ignore the Adam Hall prices for BMS drivers, they are always way off. While the rising price of neo has tied everyone's hands in terms of their prices jumping (and hence why the 810, as good as it is, is a silly price now Cry), Tony is awesome and will always do his best to give you a great deal, has been very good to me on several occasions now Smile 

Those Ferrite ones, the 12S310, were great value for money and by all accounts sounded great in a MT121, but unfortunately if I remember correct are discontinued now?

k


Posted By: t.geessounds
Date Posted: 28 May 2012 at 4:27pm
i no am hi jack but wat u guys thinks about the 12nd610 for 18sound


Posted By: Nick Sasquash
Date Posted: 28 May 2012 at 9:46pm
BMS 12N610 are my favorite horn loaded 12" Wink

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https://operationsoundsystemrecords.bandcamp.com/

https://www.facebook.com/OperationSoundSystem/



Posted By: ceharden
Date Posted: 28 May 2012 at 9:59pm
Originally posted by t.geessounds t.geessounds wrote:

i no am hi jack but wat u guys thinks about the 12nd610 for 18sound


If you want to go for 18Sound, the 12ND710 is the one you need.  Incredibly efficient and fantastic midrange.


Posted By: Andy Kos
Date Posted: 28 May 2012 at 10:36pm
Originally posted by levyte357 levyte357 wrote:

If you know the right man, PD123ER can be had for approx £100,
 
Dont forget PD implemented a price rise about a month ago....


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just a guy with a warehouse and a few speakers... www.bluearan.co.uk


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 28 May 2012 at 10:58pm
12ND710 is not in production anymore as i am aware.

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Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: ceharden
Date Posted: 28 May 2012 at 11:20pm
It's just in their extended range now so there would be a slightly longer lead time.


Posted By: phildat
Date Posted: 18 June 2012 at 9:31pm
If I remember correctly..310 ferrites got replaced by 610 neo. Same specs though?

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Its just a ride.


Posted By: SBC
Date Posted: 18 June 2012 at 9:50pm
said it recently, but 123er is a great option for the money

but don't forget b&C either....

sit a 12pe32 next to a pd123er and you realise how heavy the cones are on the pd...







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F.T.S.S.


Posted By: Aztor
Date Posted: 19 June 2012 at 12:20am
dobbel post Ouch


Posted By: Aztor
Date Posted: 19 June 2012 at 12:20am
If you could chose the PD123ER/PD121, 12pe32 or BMS 12N810. What would you choose? and why?

Price not relevant.


Posted By: Tony Wilkes
Date Posted: 19 June 2012 at 9:15am
I doubt that a single person in the UK has heard the 810 in an MT style box so do not expect too many reliable answers.

If you are determined to use BMS then go with the 12N610.  If I was building Mt's and did not want the cost of Neo I would use the B&C's especially as I know Tony ASS would do a good deal.

Tony


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www.forteaudio.eu - BMS - db-Mark Processors - Lexon (SAE)


Posted By: kevinmcdonough
Date Posted: 19 June 2012 at 10:45am
I have two of the 810's sitting here that I got from Tony last year to run some tests with, of both the mt122 style horn and the mt- 130 and then same as my THAM cabs other things came up and it got stuck on the back burner. However this summer should be better and as well as finishing off that full system plan to do some tests of both the horn mid sections and also a V18 ported horn sub to go with them and will be sticking up all the results here.

K


Posted By: Tony Wilkes
Date Posted: 19 June 2012 at 1:50pm
Kev, Your still the only person that I have sold that driver too, if it has the same sound quality and robustness as the 12N610's they should be Gems.

Tony


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www.forteaudio.eu - BMS - db-Mark Processors - Lexon (SAE)


Posted By: kevinmcdonough
Date Posted: 19 June 2012 at 2:43pm
hey

yeah I'm torn.

Originally I was leaning towards an MT-122 style horn and using the BMS 810, but now to be honest I'm leaning more towards an MT-130 style horn, and there is a very high sensitivity and power handling 18sound driver, the 12MD1000, that has almost exactly the same specs that the original MT-130 driver had (a PD 121) but does 600w at 102db. Its also Ferrite so a little kinder on the pockets.

However that desn't take into account sound quality and as we know, the MT-130s are a little bit of an unknown quantity just now as very few have really built many and no one that I know of has done any meaningful comparison of the two.

So I have a choice of two horns, and two potential drivers, and only way to know for sure is to make some sawdust and try both and see what happens :-)


k


Posted By: SBC
Date Posted: 19 June 2012 at 8:13pm
Originally posted by Aztor Aztor wrote:

If you could chose the PD123ER/PD121, 12pe32 or BMS 12N810. What would you choose? and why?

Price not relevant.

not the 121.


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F.T.S.S.


Posted By: SebP
Date Posted: 19 June 2012 at 11:11pm
Originally posted by kevinmcdonough kevinmcdonough wrote:

However that desn't take into account sound quality and as we know, the MT-130s are a little bit of an unknown quantity just now as very few have really built many and no one that I know of has done any meaningful comparison of the two.

Ask french people, MT-130 is very popular in France.


Posted By: kevinmcdonough
Date Posted: 20 June 2012 at 1:22am
haha

yeah have google-translated my way through some of his forum and people rave about them. But again, they dont know the MT-122 as well or at least i havent seen anyone compare them Smile


k


Posted By: Meat
Date Posted: 20 June 2012 at 7:30am
I thought Nicky on here had built both.

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Don't test the champignon sound


Posted By: smoore
Date Posted: 20 June 2012 at 8:35am
Kevin what is this idea of a v-1000 ported horn? Will plans be available?


Posted By: kevinmcdonough
Date Posted: 20 June 2012 at 4:20pm
Originally posted by smoore smoore wrote:

Kevin what is this idea of a v-1000 ported horn? Will plans be available?



haha typed a big, long, detailed reply to this and the internets killed it so short version Tongue  Basically it's an idea I've been kicking about for a while now.

plan for tops is to make a double 12" version of whatever horn I decide on, with two very high sensitivity/powerhandling drivers and a BMS coax comp. Each one will have a 40 degree horn for the comps so will start with two per side and eventually make a third pair so will have three per side when I want to go wider to 120 degrees.

Overall, it'll be LOUD! LOL and so will need some good subs to go with it, realistically 3 sub horns per top.

I want each cab to be no more than 600mm high so when three are stacked and then the double 12" top put up there its the correct height for the tops in the types of venues/uses I'll be putting it to. And I also want them to be around 600 to 700mm wide on the front face so I can stack them 3 tall by two wide when i use two tops, and three by three when I use three tops, but still not be stupidly wide. 

This gives me a rough idea of front face/mouth area, with the volume of the cab being made up in depth, and wanna keep the design of a single horn to about 300 to 350 litres or so, so that when the actual wood is added in, braces, handles, folding etc etc its still relatively manageable.

Because its a reduced mouth area, it couldn't be a full FLH but I still wanted it to be a horn of some sort to keep sensitivity up so had to be either ported or tapped.

As I'll have to buy 12 and eventually 18 drivers wanted to try for a relitivly affordable driver, £200 ballpark rather than the £350 or so for the better B&C drivers etc (though would quite happily pay if there was one that provided worthwhile advantages).

Needs to play 40 to 120 to be able to meet the tops and stay a 4 way system, doesn't need to go much below that into the 30s because will be mostly for live music and maybe commercial dance etc, not dubstep or anything like that.


I'm still tweeking and playing, but with all those factors being taken into account, I have a first draft of the simulation/horn size and cab layout. Its basically a straight horn for most of it, with one 90 degree fold towards the back of the cab/start of the horn.

Its designed to be played in at least 4's, or sixes for me, so on its one one cab has a rising response not dissimilar to a Martin WLX, starting around 101 or 102db at 40-45Hz and going up to 105 at 120Hz crossover, but once you stack it with others its +/-1db all the way from 40 to up over 200Hz.

As I've discussed on other threads I may also look into combining two in some sort of bifurcated double horn design, but want to make sure i'm happy with the response/sound of one before I try this.


Will be happy to share the plans once I have it nailed down and tested etc, but this probably wont be any time too soon it'll need prototypes and revisions etc to get it to where I'm happy and have lots of things on my plate just now with already started projects, house I'm renovating and day job etc.


k


Posted By: smoore
Date Posted: 20 June 2012 at 11:39pm
Whoah, Sounds immense!! All with ya on the cheaper drivers as thats all i can afford! I'm just a student at the moment, lookin to get rid of my 3 cubo's to replace for more sub, so If you ever do release the plans i'll definitely be up for building some and reporting! Although i have no measuring equipment... Make sure you post a topic with the results!
 
Cheers, Sam


Posted By: kevinmcdonough
Date Posted: 21 June 2012 at 2:15am
haha

yeah but that's all for the future, not meaning to hijack the thread Tongue

k


Posted By: wouter85
Date Posted: 21 September 2017 at 8:39am
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