HD15s
Printed From: Speakerplans.com
Category: Plans
Forum Name: HD 15 horn
Forum Description: Discussion / Questions about the HD 15 horn
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=705
Printed Date: 27 March 2026 at 2:16am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.08 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: HD15s
Posted By: miniphil
Subject: HD15s
Date Posted: 13 October 2004 at 12:45pm
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Last night I did a little pub gig with an industrial band called http://www.bonemachine.co.uk - bonemachine . I put in a pair of RCF Art300s and a pair of HD15s (with Celestion Frontline15s). The sound was UNBELIEVABLE! The speakers moved forward a metre under their own power at one point!!! The HD15s were powered by a Carver PM15 and the Arts by a C-Audio RA3000. As would Rog put it, people DNA was being rearranged. I can't wait to build the other 6 |
and that is just the start Replies:
Posted By: Andrew
Date Posted: 13 October 2004 at 1:20pm
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Paving slabs do the job. Perhaps we could meet to test your Celestion HD15 against my Eminence and P Audio units when I get around to making some measurements. I'm still in the same Local TV region (Six). |
Posted By: freddyi
Date Posted: 13 October 2004 at 3:23pm
| hey guys - how do HD15 handle basslines? - |
Posted By: Andrew
Date Posted: 13 October 2004 at 3:32pm
| Chucks 'em well. HD15 cabinets have a good throw. Bass is as good at 20M as it is at 3M. |
Posted By: freddyi
Date Posted: 13 October 2004 at 4:10pm
| Cool ! - thanx |
Posted By: freddyi
Date Posted: 13 October 2004 at 4:19pm
| dammit - forgot to ask - where should the upper speaker roll-in from HD15? - how about highpass point to protect HD15? TIA |
Posted By: Andrew
Date Posted: 13 October 2004 at 5:08pm
| I seem to recall 180Hz, but I've taken them past 250Hz and the overall system response was still pretty flat. The higher cut-off just makes the amplifier gain positions easy for my system, bass and top gains are equal. |
Posted By: Andrew
Date Posted: 13 October 2004 at 5:10pm
| Sorry, that was low pass. I use somewhere between 30 and 50Hz for High Pass, but it's not critical for my use, as the units are not wellied! |
Posted By: PoteirosCorp
Date Posted: 13 October 2004 at 5:44pm
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Did you only use the HD15's or put another sub below ?? |
Posted By: Andrew
Date Posted: 13 October 2004 at 7:44pm
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Only one HD15 a side was used for bass, P Audio driver. Bose 802 were used for tops. Quite a nice matched system, with a good throw from both units. 802's were used with a full range bose active crossover, but another crossover was used upstream to adjust the cross point from the HD15 to the 802's. Subjectively a HD15 is a match against a 2x15" reflex cab, but I've not made measurements yet to compare output levels. If only there was more time... |
Posted By: PoteirosCorp
Date Posted: 13 October 2004 at 7:59pm
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Hi Andrew, I bought 8 eminence kappa 15 thinking on build a 2x15 sub with them(my DAS 15LM were moved to a 2x15 top) The HD15 is very very tempted, but I still don´t want to charge subs with them ( 2 HD15 and 1 2x15 top per side will be lovely) Return the kappas to get the kappas15LF ?? P.S. What about you miniphil, use subs with the HD15 ?? |
Posted By: Andrew
Date Posted: 13 October 2004 at 8:55pm
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My first HD15 was built with 18mm ply and houses a Kappa 15LF, and shakes like hell. Then I built two HD15 out of 15mm ply, almost glueing the cabinet together with gripfill, rather than put in any timber. These units have the P Audio drivers in them, they don't shake half as much, but sound just as loud. However I've not done a strict comparison yet to determine / measure actual output levels. I did a response of a complete system with the 2 P Audio cabinets and virtually had to undo the dip I put in around 125Hz to compensate for the hump on the design plot, only about 2dB variance. When I spoke to Rog about the shaking, he suggested that the cast driver frame is keeping the HD15 cabinet rigid, whereas the HD15 is trying to keep the pressed driver frame rigid. Will definitely do a measurement some day. Would be good to test a local HD15 with Celestion driver too! |
Posted By: freddyi
Date Posted: 13 October 2004 at 9:15pm
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hey Andrew - maybe basket is flexing - old K43 (industrial La
Scala) type by Eminence w. 950z slug had a fairly robust steel basket-
(old CTS 15" from 1970's had weak magnet-frame joint so magnet itself
would shiimmy) does Kappa 15 LF have a thinner steel basket like Beta 15? did you squeeze some baffle battens on either side of HD15's baffle? - does its mouth need a strut brace? thanks for all the good info and best! Freddy |
Posted By: Andrew
Date Posted: 13 October 2004 at 10:07pm
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Can't remember what the drivers look like. I've also got some non LF 15" 400W Eminence jobbies, but they've proberly uprated them now. The 18mm cabinet was built by a craftsman, with braces everywhere. The mouth strut is fun. The thinner cabinets don't have additional timber, except some extra ply to support the handles and a top hat, and they were built by me. Now which cabinet would you expect to shake? |
Posted By: freddyi
Date Posted: 13 October 2004 at 10:28pm
| figures Andrew - did 18mm have lotsa plys? - demons? |
Posted By: Andrew
Date Posted: 13 October 2004 at 10:44pm
| Both were WBP from the same timber merchant, but unlike my XM15, not the 13 laminate variety. If I'd known how much nicer the 13 laminate was to work with, far less hardwood splinters, I'd have used it for all my cabinets. So there was no quality difference between the 15 and 18mm plys, just an extra 3mm on the cabinet that shakes. Thanks for the good thought though. One day we'll get a break through! (Probably the Eminence Kappa 15LF shaking out!) |
Posted By: miniphil
Date Posted: 13 October 2004 at 11:09pm
Might well be changing them, as Celestion have discontinued the Frontline range and I only have 2 of them at the moment. Thinking I might use the NTi range, as they are theoretically better then the Frontlines. Also they are lighter because of the Neo magnets. Will see whta my guy who builds anti-fish systems can get me dirt cheap. |
Andrew wrote:Posted By: whitehousejamie
Date Posted: 13 October 2004 at 11:37pm
| Andrew, have you tryed running the HD15s from the 302 output of the bose controller? Thats how i run my system and it sounds great. |
Posted By: Andrew
Date Posted: 14 October 2004 at 8:01am
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Yes, I've done that, but there is no time alignment. Do you use the black or silver controller, and have you noticed any difference between them if you have both? I've not done a blind test to see if people can really tell the difference with/without the time alignment. Sounds like a whole lot of tests to do. Has anyone built the HD15 with a Neo driver. Is the P Audio 15" Neo driver recommended for this application? |
Posted By: Dom
Date Posted: 14 October 2004 at 8:30am
| Back in the mists of time, before we had the facility to time align our HD15's we used to invert their phase and cross them over at 200Hz... This would then bring them back in phase at the crossover point (Half a wave length at 200Hz = 85cm which is the horn length of the HD 15...) Definately sounded much better doing that than not... |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 14 October 2004 at 8:53am
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Was wondering too whether anyone had put a Beyma driver in an HD15. I can get them cheap thru a friend and wondered what might be the most suitable for an HD15 and if anyone had tested any ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: davy gabriels
Date Posted: 14 October 2004 at 9:38am
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Is it possible to combine 2 HD15's to just 1 cabinet?Because if you want to put 8 HD15's a side, it's easier to roll in 4 double cabinets then lift up 8 single cabinets(do people put rollers on a single hd15?). How should I combine 2 hd15's in 1 cabinet? Lay 2 hd15 on their long sides above each other, so the horn exits lay above each other. Or put them so that the horn exits are opposite each other (like the turbosound double 18" subs) |
Posted By: whitehousejamie
Date Posted: 14 October 2004 at 10:37am
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Yes, take a look here.... http://www.speakerplans.com/page187.html - http://www.speakerplans.com/page187.html Vitor has build some twin HD15s |
Posted By: whitehousejamie
Date Posted: 14 October 2004 at 10:40am
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Andrew, its the Bose C System Controller, the black one with the two cut buttons on the front. The 802s are on stands, so i just put the bins infront of the stands and it sounds fine, might not be perfect, but its good enough for me |
Posted By: davy gabriels
Date Posted: 14 October 2004 at 10:54am
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Oops sorry, recently didn't look at the photo page... Would it make a lot difference when the 2 hd15's are oriented in the other way, so with the horn flares pointing at each other? |
Posted By: whitehousejamie
Date Posted: 14 October 2004 at 11:14am
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Andrew, i see you use HD15s with both Eminence and P Audio units in? Is it the C15 or BM15 you are using? How much better do they sound than the Kappas when using them with the 802s? Cheers |
Posted By: Andrew
Date Posted: 14 October 2004 at 12:23pm
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I'm using the C15 in the HD15. I have a board with castors on for moving the HD15. They are liftable without, and much easier to stack and transport without castors, as the castors take up a lot of space. Some HD15 have a top hat in, so I can use a pole to support an 802. |
Posted By: whitehousejamie
Date Posted: 14 October 2004 at 12:27pm
| How does the C15 sound compared to the Kappa? Im currently using the Kappa's, and am going to upgrade to the P Audios, but im a bit concerned that the C15 might sound a bit too tight, and was leaning towards the BM15 LF driver. |
Posted By: Andrew
Date Posted: 14 October 2004 at 12:55pm
| I've only run them as singles and away from the rest of the speaker stack, so was difficult to tell. It was after an event. Some day, when I get some time, I'd like to make some proper measurements. |
Posted By: loophole
Date Posted: 14 October 2004 at 1:11pm
| bm's sound lovely mate. unless you've got more than 6 hd15s in the stack i would definitely go with them.... can actually get some decent dubby basslines out of the kickcabs, quite a nice surprise |
Posted By: whitehousejamie
Date Posted: 14 October 2004 at 1:51pm
| Cheers mate, i think i am gonna go the BM route, and will probrably never touch a Kappa again |
Posted By: Andrew
Date Posted: 14 October 2004 at 2:43pm
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@ davy gabriels Rog did a post about the merits of multiple HD15 positioning but it's gone. Can anyone remember amount the MMMM, WWWW, and E3 diagrams? The compromise was Fc vs dB.
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Posted By: PoteirosCorp
Date Posted: 14 October 2004 at 5:57pm
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who use only HD15´s for bass ?? I know I know, I´m so annoying. Thanks for the input |
Posted By: Andrew
Date Posted: 14 October 2004 at 6:29pm
| We use them for general music and they are OK, very respectable between 50 and 100Hz. But if you want loads of bass in that area or lower, go for something strong in that area, like X1 or a big horn. |
Posted By: Dave Slater
Date Posted: 14 October 2004 at 6:29pm
exactly what Dom and i are doing right now... http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dave.slater23/IMG_1016.JPG - Double HD15's we've approximated the curve using mitred panels as it would be impossible to do a curved sheet how we've joined them together |
Posted By: PoteirosCorp
Date Posted: 14 October 2004 at 6:45pm
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hey Dave, the cab picture named IMG_0944.JPG is the one with Beyma LX60 drives, right ?? Do you know some plans, (or theory) of manifold subs (like de EAWSB1000) preferly for 15"´s |
Posted By: davy gabriels
Date Posted: 14 October 2004 at 6:46pm
| @dave: that's exactly what I'm looking for! What dimensions did you take? Same as single cabinet x 2? |
Posted By: Dom
Date Posted: 14 October 2004 at 7:07pm
We use just HD15's for bass at the moment. Have 12 of them... Don't really have any problem with not having enough bass... You just need to use decent sized stacks of them and don't expect anything too much below 45hz... Certainly 6 aside move some air... |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 14 October 2004 at 7:19pm
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Yep that's one, i hadn't even seen it looking like that..... and it's my friggin box!! ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: Dave Slater
Date Posted: 14 October 2004 at 7:21pm
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poteiroscorp - yeah it's the one we built for norty 'fraid i don't know much more about them other than a quick muck about in akabak which didn't give the results i was expecting davy gabriels - yeah it's just the same size as two together less 18mm as there's only one piece of ply in the centre
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Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 14 October 2004 at 10:09pm
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Ok, I'm thinking of putting some Beyma 15"G40's in 4 HD15's. However I've no idea how suitable they may be. I've posted below the TS parameters in the hope someone may be able to tell what I could expect from them and whether they're even suitable for a horn. It doesn't look like a huge xmax but does that matter? Also, are they going to need a load of power to make them work properly? Resonant frequency, fs 37 Hz D.C. Voice coil resistance, Re 5.9 ohms. Mechanical Quality Factor, Qms 9.95 Electrical Quality Factor, Qes 0.31 Total Quality Factor, Qts 0.30 Equivalent Air Volume to Cms, Vas 149 l Mechanical Compliance, Cms 155 m / N Mechanical Resistance, Rms 2.8 kg / s Efficiency, o (%) 2.3 Effective Surface Area, Sd (m 2) 0.0830 m2Maximum Displacement, Xmax 7 mm. Displacement Volume, Vd 576 cm3 Voice Coil Inductance, Le @ 1 kHz 2.9 mH
------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 15 October 2004 at 8:34am
Or has anyone tried the Neo P-Audio in one? God so many options....  ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: Jez_Ultra
Date Posted: 15 October 2004 at 7:38pm
i don't think he has, thats just his former for the curved part. jez |
Posted By: norty303
Date Posted: 16 October 2004 at 2:24am
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Nope, i think you want to scroll down the page a bit, that's a double HD15 if ever i saw one. Side by side rather than over/under like doms and daves ------------- My laser stuff: http://www.facebook.com/SubsonicSystems" rel="nofollow - Frikkin Lasers |
Posted By: Jez_Ultra
Date Posted: 16 October 2004 at 9:35am
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I don't agree, it is not a double HD15. its just victors curve former clamped to a work surface, with perhaps one side of the HD to one side. I don't understand why you'd want to make a double HD15, its just about the perfect weight and size for one person to carry, easier to pack, and all that you'd be saving would be about 0.5sqm of ply and a bit of time. Jez |
Posted By: Andrew
Date Posted: 16 October 2004 at 10:00am
| Bigger units are far more stable when stacking. I think Vitor is wise to use double units if he finds them convenient. For me, I stick with singles so I can move them, and stack them different ways for storage. |
Posted By: Jez_Ultra
Date Posted: 16 October 2004 at 10:40am
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don't start, their not doubles. lol. I'm convinced their not doubles.
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Posted By: whitehousejamie
Date Posted: 16 October 2004 at 10:54am
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I must be going blind then, cause its looks to me very much like a twin HD15....
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http://www.speakerplans.com/vit14.jpg - Posted By: Dom
Date Posted: 16 October 2004 at 11:01am
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Looks like a double to me... And from someone with single and doubles, singles are great because you can lift them by yourself, move them around in cars and are slightly more flexible when it comes to stacking. Doubles are great because you put wheels on them and push them around. Less boxes to move, easier to stack and less cabs to wire up... |
Posted By: Andrew
Date Posted: 16 October 2004 at 11:38am
| Twins, doubles, is there any common terminology in use to distinguish how two units are built together. Like the two units above might be twins, whereas if they were built opposite each other might they be a double. |
Posted By: Jez_Ultra
Date Posted: 16 October 2004 at 12:40pm
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I keep on looking at the posted link. then it dawns on, having seen doms posts me, press the refresh button. what a fecking retard i am. *hangs his head in shame* ok it's a double.
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