Warming up
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Category: General
Forum Name: Feedback Forum
Forum Description: How Your Projects Perform
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=71490
Printed Date: 18 April 2024 at 12:57pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.06 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Warming up
Posted By: Meat
Subject: Warming up
Date Posted: 08 October 2012 at 6:43pm
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Some time ago various people posted about how running their (heavy) amplifiers for some time gave a better sound. Now that large numbers of us have fancy switchmodes has anyone noticed a similar effect with these amps and their lower thermal inertia?
------------- Don't test the champignon sound |
Replies:
Posted By: kedwardsleisure
Date Posted: 08 October 2012 at 7:15pm
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imho if a solid state amp needs to warm up before it sounds its best, its faulty ------------- Kevin North Staffordshire |
Posted By: darkmatter
Date Posted: 08 October 2012 at 8:10pm
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I've heard of hifi aficionados saying they never turn their toroidals off for this reason, mini radiators and nothing more in my (to be fair unqualified) opinion. In my opinion if a circuit hasn't reached stability within the first minute of playing at reasonable load there's something inherently wrong with it.
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Posted By: kedwardsleisure
Date Posted: 08 October 2012 at 9:43pm
It's possible for a faulty amp to exhibit this sort of thing. On older amps, worn out electrolytics can regain some performance when warm. Some amps may be running with too little bias and hence distortion that disappears when the amp is warm enough. Really an amp should perform perfectly straight out of the box  ------------- Kevin North Staffordshire |
Posted By: opus jody
Date Posted: 09 October 2012 at 8:59am
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All my amps must be faulty then!! they definitely sound better after about an hour. in fact, in very cold (sub zero) start up conditions, they can sometimes sound so distorted that it sounds like all the cones are blown. It's only the fact that all cones do the same sound that tells you it's the amps. With a minimum of 15 mins on tickover before any serious volumes, there's never any problems. It behaves much like a diesel engine to be honest. a bit of warm up time goes a long way. You wouldn't expect a car to do 0-60 in 10 seconds on a cold engine. once they're up to temperature you can spank them really hard for days with no issues. ------------- Improvised Hardware Music http://vimeo.com/user9389813/videos |
Posted By: smoore
Date Posted: 09 October 2012 at 9:55am
| I have noticed this as well especially doing outdoor parties. Im guessing, like you say, its because of the cold... |
Posted By: Dub Specialist
Date Posted: 09 October 2012 at 11:20am
you could put this in the conspiracy theories  ------------- treat all creation with respect. For music is sound...sound is vibration...vibration is energy... and energy begets life. Therein lies my passion! MUSIC IS LIFE 
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Posted By: mrspeedy
Date Posted: 09 October 2012 at 12:30pm
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To be honest, my diesel van performs alot better when cold actually... Even runs better if the air is cool with low humidity (i.e winter)!
Never noticed any distortion on my amps when outdoors in a marquee in sub 15deg temperatures. |
Posted By: GEB
Date Posted: 09 October 2012 at 12:42pm
| KY jelly is better once it's warmed up.......ooops, wrong forum! |
Posted By: mooreb
Date Posted: 09 October 2012 at 12:50pm
My Range was like that, Turned out to be diesel injectors and oil rings, Be careful!!! ------------- FB LS AUDIO SYSTEMS |
mrspeedy wrote:Posted By: mooreb
Date Posted: 09 October 2012 at 12:53pm
I agree with the older amps, I turned some on the other day that I had not played for a while and waited for a while before sending any signal through them just so the caps could be nice and charged (kind of like warming up a car when you get in in i suppose!) ------------- FB LS AUDIO SYSTEMS |
Posted By: mykey-
Date Posted: 09 October 2012 at 12:59pm
------------- BbbBBRAAAAPppBBBBbgushhhhhhhhssshhhhhGrAbRAAAAAAPPPPPp = Dubstep |
Posted By: mrspeedy
Date Posted: 09 October 2012 at 1:24pm
Yeah i reckon the injectors are on the way out, it runs a bit rough nowadays and always runs rough when you start it. clears a bit as soon as you have revved it. Will get them re-conditioned probably.
Oil rings? Toby |
Posted By: kedwardsleisure
Date Posted: 09 October 2012 at 2:49pm
 ------------- Kevin North Staffordshire |
Posted By: Meat
Date Posted: 09 October 2012 at 3:30pm
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Just to take this back to the original question: do lightweights like to warm up to sound their best - any comments? ------------- Don't test the champignon sound |
Posted By: simonh
Date Posted: 09 October 2012 at 3:37pm
From memory that's to do with the density of air which is affected by heat. The colder the air, the higher the density, the greater potential for combustion (as long as the engine doesn't run lean). 20 years since I last looked at combustion theory, so I may be a little rusty...
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Posted By: wayward91
Date Posted: 09 October 2012 at 3:37pm
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someones on the payroll of an energy supplier ;) . ...but yes I'm undecided on this . i know someone with a linn system that doesn't get turned off unless there is a power cut or they are moving house . I'm a little less convinced about an audible change due to solid state bit of kit been left on. perhaps its just habit but if i do any serious hi-fi listening i do let the system play for 20 mins or so first, i suppose all the components would reach the normal operating temperature and in the process its bound to change how something preforms .
... I'm sure my cheapo super x-over pro hisses less after 30 mins or so or is it just faulty. lol |
Posted By: wayward91
Date Posted: 09 October 2012 at 3:38pm
| double post |
Posted By: mrspeedy
Date Posted: 09 October 2012 at 3:55pm
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@ simonh That sounds about right! My kart always used to run better in the cooler weather too. Much unlike my toes and fingers!!! And to answer the OP's question. My 3 Crown Pulses have never sounded strange on initial soundcheck when used outdoors in the cold. I always give them 2 mins to settle down after turn on before raising the levels mind you. Never had an issue with cold amps not sounding 'right' or distorting.
I should think its a placebo effect type thing. Blindfold them and then I'm sure if you cradled their hi-fi amps and heated them in an amp teacosy but didnt tell them, they'd still say it sounded distorted. |
Posted By: audiomik
Date Posted: 09 October 2012 at 4:00pm
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Re: "Never noticed any distortion on my amps when outdoors in a marquee in sub 15deg temperatures." and Re: "in fact, in very cold (sub zero) start up conditions, they can sometimes sound so distorted that it sounds like all the cones are blown" Both of these statements earlier in this thread show the effects of the thermal range variations for specified operation of electronic components........ Whilst these components might function at reduced temperatures their performance may well not be within the specification required by the circuit design. just my 2p worth...... Mik ------------- Warning! May contain Nuts plus springs, washers, screws, etc, etc. |
Posted By: mrspeedy
Date Posted: 09 October 2012 at 4:03pm
| I agree with Mik's comment entirely |
Posted By: Jasonstry
Date Posted: 09 October 2012 at 4:51pm
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< ="" ="text/" ="/B1D671CF-E532-4481-99AA-19F420D90332etdefender/huidhui.js?0=0&0=0&0=0">
Just my 2p but I know with absolute certainty that the laws of physics dictate that my system should sound just as good when it is first fired up as it does after an hour or two of use but my ears tell me that the laws of the universe are actually wrong..... Think I will buy gold plated fuses for my amps while I am it.... Andy ------------- Down with signatures! |
Posted By: odc04r
Date Posted: 09 October 2012 at 5:05pm
How long does it take you to get the first couple of beers away. I always find my gear sounds better a few hours into a night 
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Posted By: wayward91
Date Posted: 09 October 2012 at 5:11pm
Haa, +1 |
Posted By: infamousj
Date Posted: 09 October 2012 at 11:07pm
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my guess would be over all design and component tolerance as aparently even resistors can be prone to thier rated value changing with temperature. the part the didnt teach us in electonics theory class was how much these values change.... in theory if there is enough change it could effect the sound qualitty. sorry for the ramble |
Posted By: Peter Moller
Date Posted: 10 October 2012 at 11:34pm
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I have noticed that some of the early Lab 2000 amps tend to sound a bit rough in the HF end of things when cold, but it gets better after half an hour or so.. Ideally, amps distortion shouldnt be temperature dependant, but it seems to a generally accepted fact that they do need to warm up a bit - atleast its like that with most people who own expensive HIFI kit :-) /p ------------- real phone no: +45 four zero six two four four nine eight ( using obvious anti phone spam encryption ) |
Posted By: mashgwan
Date Posted: 11 October 2012 at 8:31am
| i always thought our system took a while to warm up, but we alway though it was the drivers warming up due to being stored in a cold lock up |
Posted By: demanddeepbass
Date Posted: 11 October 2012 at 9:45am
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I can see both sides of this, components undoubtedly change their specification slightly at temperature. An amp should be designed such that this doesn't effect the sound but this is analogue electronics, the effect will vary between manufacturers and probably between different components of the same spec. I remember poking about inside a Studer tuner once - you could make it go out of tune by blowing on it! As regards the always on thing - I think this might have filtered down from professional audio. Studios and broadcasters often run kit 24/7 - not because it sounds better but to avoid the thermal stresses of on/off cycles which can cause faults. This could also have some history to it from valves which obviously have to run hot to work. I've heard amps which change quite a bit once they're warm and I've heard ones where I didn't notice any difference. I don't think I've listened carefully or widely enough to comment yet on whether switching amps exhibit the effect more or less. ------------- "These amps go up to 11" |
Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 11 October 2012 at 1:18pm
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The bias voltages on some amps may vary slightly as they warm up, but if designed properly, that shouldn´t change the sound. Then again, if the bias circuitry is not set up properly, or components are on the edge of their specs, then you could get a bit of distortion before things settle down. ------------- Earplugs Are For Wimps! |
Posted By: cyte
Date Posted: 12 October 2012 at 12:45am
| I believe that amps needing to 'warm up' is a myth that stems from Valve amps, which do need to warm up to reach optimum performance. Solid state electronics behave entirely differently. |