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Which bass design for top 40 dance music?

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Category: Plans
Forum Name: New Projects Forum
Forum Description: Forum for new speakerplans projects, in memory of Tony Wilkes, 1953 - 2014
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=72375
Printed Date: 29 February 2024 at 4:01pm
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Topic: Which bass design for top 40 dance music?
Posted By: +/-3dB
Subject: Which bass design for top 40 dance music?
Date Posted: 08 November 2012 at 5:10pm
Honorable SP members,

Which DIY design including drivers do you recommend to take care of the low end in a permanent dance floor installation?
I can find many plans but as I haven't heard any of them it's difficult to know which one to pick. From your experience, which are proven up to date designs?

Background:
We are a sports club who do own parties and organizes corporate events. We can't afford professional gear and therefore looking for DIY.

Program material is top 40 dance music like, Avicii, Calvin Harris, SHM, Jay-Z, Icona Pop etc. So I suppose extension to 40Hz is low enough.
6x8 m large dance floor which take approx 100 dancers. People will be standing right next to the speakers, meaning it should sound good near field.
left and right tops flown above the dance floor
DBX Drive Rack 260 LMS
LAB gruppen 2002 amp

Due to space constraints, I want a mono stack located under one of the tops.

We are not experienced cab builders so construction shouldn't be to hard to build.

What else do you want to know?

I know some sound theory so feel to answer with technical terms. I will get it.

Best regards,
Jan



Replies:
Posted By: kick-spill
Date Posted: 08 November 2012 at 5:18pm
2 b&c 15" loaded with pd154 or pd156 or fane XB15"

http://www.bcspeakers.com/suggested.php?id=0000000007 

http://www.bluearan.co.uk/index.php?browsemode=category&category=Speaker_Components&masthead=Loudspeaker_Drivers&subheadnew=15_Inch_Drivers

handles, back speaker input etc can all be bought from there too.

nice and easy 

 


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Posted By: dylan-penguinmedia
Date Posted: 08 November 2012 at 5:18pm
I'd take a look at a G sub design - Reflex so will sound good up close and plenty of people have very good results with them. What are the tops?


Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 08 November 2012 at 5:20pm
I think a couple of G-Subs would be perfect for you. Drivers shouldn´t be difficult - P-Audio, RCF, Fane, Eminence, or even the Thomann Box thing if you´re on a budget. Smile


EDIT: Ooops - beaten too it... Confused





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Earplugs Are For Wimps!


Posted By: Tony Wilkes
Date Posted: 08 November 2012 at 5:56pm
Tham15 would be perfect.

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www.forteaudio.eu - BMS - db-Mark Processors - Lexon (SAE)


Posted By: +/-3dB
Date Posted: 08 November 2012 at 8:38pm
Originally posted by dylan-penguinmedia dylan-penguinmedia wrote:

I'd take a look at a G sub design - Reflex so will sound good up close and plenty of people have very good results with them. What are the tops?


I've thought about G subs myself and I'm glad you confirm that it is a good design.

The tops are a pair of active Yamaha speakers which sound horrible. That would be our next project after the bass cabs been built and installed. I have a pair of Turbosound TMS-1 in the lock up which should do a better job.




Posted By: +/-3dB
Date Posted: 08 November 2012 at 8:47pm
Originally posted by Tony Wilkes Tony Wilkes wrote:

Tham15 would be perfect.


Will THAM15 do better in the upper bass than G-sub? The TMS-1 goes down to 90 Hz according to spec, but I doubt that 10" gives much energy down there. Perhaps I should cross somewhere at 120Hz.

How do 2 x THAM15 compare in SPL against 1 x G sub PD186 loaded?


Posted By: Tony Wilkes
Date Posted: 08 November 2012 at 9:28pm
Originally posted by +/-3dB +/-3dB wrote:

Originally posted by Tony Wilkes Tony Wilkes wrote:

Tham15 would be perfect.


Will THAM15 do better in the upper bass than G-sub? The TMS-1 goes down to 90 Hz according to spec, but I doubt that 10" gives much energy down there. Perhaps I should cross somewhere at 120Hz.

How do 2 x THAM15 compare in SPL against 1 x G sub PD186 loaded?


The Tham15 is usable up to 140-150hz and 2 x  Tham15's would easily outperform a typical twin 18" and sound way more dynamic.

Tony


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www.forteaudio.eu - BMS - db-Mark Processors - Lexon (SAE)


Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 08 November 2012 at 9:37pm
plus 1 on the Tham15.....


Posted By: djsam3000
Date Posted: 09 November 2012 at 8:34am
No intention to hijack, but I was going to build B&C Sub18s, 2 a side. Same as OP your commercial dance, chart music. Would 2x THAM15s a side be better than 2 Sub18s in terms of:
Output
Weight
Footprint
How low they drop.
Number of sheets of ply
Ease of build

Opinions appreciated as I haven't heard either but I always figured you can't go wrong with an 18" reflex sub



Posted By: +/-3dB
Date Posted: 09 November 2012 at 8:53am
Originally posted by djsam3000 djsam3000 wrote:

No intention to hijack, but I was going to build B&C Sub18s, 2 a side. Same as OP your commercial dance, chart music. Would 2x THAM15s a side be better than 2 Sub18s in terms of:
Output
Weight
Footprint
How low they drop.
Number of sheets of ply
Ease of build

Opinions appreciated as I haven't heard either but I always figured you can't go wrong with an 18" reflex sub



Answers some of your questions
http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/index.php?entry=entry090721-180410
http://forum.speakerplans.com/tham-15-plans-and-sims-help-please_topic65541.html


Posted By: djsam3000
Date Posted: 09 November 2012 at 10:05am
Thanks for that


Posted By: discosucks
Date Posted: 09 November 2012 at 4:19pm
CBE18S 


Posted By: t.geessounds
Date Posted: 09 November 2012 at 7:41pm
1+ for the cbe18
or the cbx


Posted By: rish
Date Posted: 10 November 2012 at 6:45am
whats very interesting to note is that tapped horns have come into their own. although this is old technology, it has evolved into being great cabs. i do use the thams for small applications and in the process of building more cyclops for larger ones. i do use a stack of 3 thams15's a side for approx 150 to 200 peeps and its very very impressive.  once again a BIG THANKS to all the guys who share their design and input  ( Stapier, Martinsson and Tony Wilkes to name a few) and for your contribution and opinions on this forum.
 
band pass and horn loaded cabs will always have a place in the PA world but tapped horns in my opinion tops it with regard to sound quality.
 
Rish  


Posted By: djyves
Date Posted: 10 November 2012 at 11:13am
+1 for the CB-18 designs 

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"If brute force doesn't work, you're just not using enough!"


Posted By: +/-3dB
Date Posted: 12 November 2012 at 12:46pm
How does TH sound up close? Do you hear air compression like it can be done from some horns?
The reason I'm asking is I try to figure out which design sounds best in near field applications. In my case audience is at 1-8 m distance.


Posted By: Tony Wilkes
Date Posted: 12 November 2012 at 8:18pm
Originally posted by +/-3dB +/-3dB wrote:

How does TH sound up close? Do you hear air compression like it can be done from some horns?
The reason I'm asking is I try to figure out which design sounds best in near field applications. In my case audience is at 1-8 m distance.

Stop worrying, just build the Tham15's and then say thank you to Anders.

Tony


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www.forteaudio.eu - BMS - db-Mark Processors - Lexon (SAE)


Posted By: MattStolton
Date Posted: 13 November 2012 at 3:04pm

 

Originally posted by rish rish wrote:

whats very interesting to note is that tapped horns have come into their own. although this is old technology, it has evolved into being great cabs......

Fashion is part of it, they went out of fashion, 50 years ago, and were rediscovered 5ish years ago, just like the 80's.

All it takes is a modern driver to happen to fit, and suddenly an old design gets serious.

They are a nice compromise, some of the sound and throw (i.e limited) of a reflex, but with some of the gain/efficiency of a true horn. Many gigs don't need terrahorns or rhinos.

I consider THs to be as potentially deployable as reflex cabs, just with 3-6dB more gain for similar driver/power. Compromise is size, some complexity, and you have to be very sure on the driver choice, very specific requirements from sims. As Mr Wilkes notes, the sims scare you in terms of group delay and other nasties, but the real world "what does it sound like" seem to mask these nasties.



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Matt Stolton - Technical Director (!!!) - http://www.wildingsound.co.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilding Sound Ltd
"Sparkius metiretur vestra" - "Meter Your Mains"


Posted By: Tony Wilkes
Date Posted: 13 November 2012 at 7:18pm
Originally posted by MattStolton MattStolton wrote:

 As Mr Wilkes notes, the sims scare you in terms of group delay and other nasties, but the real world "what does it sound like" seem to mask these nasties.


Matt, Oi, whats with the Mr Wilkes, it is Tony to you Sir :)


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www.forteaudio.eu - BMS - db-Mark Processors - Lexon (SAE)


Posted By: MattStolton
Date Posted: 13 November 2012 at 9:02pm
Originally posted by Tony Wilkes Tony Wilkes wrote:

Originally posted by MattStolton MattStolton wrote:

 As Mr Wilkes notes, the sims scare you in terms of group delay and other nasties, but the real world "what does it sound like" seem to mask these nasties.


Matt, Oi, whats with the Mr Wilkes, it is Tony to you Sir :)

*doths cap* Only trying to add some victorian style respect for my elders and betters LOL



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Matt Stolton - Technical Director (!!!) - http://www.wildingsound.co.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilding Sound Ltd
"Sparkius metiretur vestra" - "Meter Your Mains"


Posted By: MattStolton
Date Posted: 13 November 2012 at 9:05pm
And besides, there is more than one active "Tony" , only one Mr Wilkes Wink

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Matt Stolton - Technical Director (!!!) - http://www.wildingsound.co.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilding Sound Ltd
"Sparkius metiretur vestra" - "Meter Your Mains"


Posted By: Tony Wilkes
Date Posted: 13 November 2012 at 9:26pm
Embarrassed

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www.forteaudio.eu - BMS - db-Mark Processors - Lexon (SAE)



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