Which OHM subs ??? BR or TRS
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Topic: Which OHM subs ??? BR or TRS
Posted By: jeff wood
Subject: Which OHM subs ??? BR or TRS
Date Posted: 10 December 2012 at 11:56pm
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Hi Guys,,, probably a question for Pasi... Im currently using a pair of BR12 tops and TRS118 subs. Just thinking now about getting either TRS218's or BR218's. Or another pair of TRS118's Can anyone explain the differences between the TRS218 and BR218 ? I noticed on the specs the TRS goes a bit lower. Im a DJ, and I like bass my be deep and "pleasant" rather than hard hitting. I'm interested in a nice big deep sound, rather than max spl,,, Also, just been in touch with someone who has some used TRS218s and BR218s to sell, but so far he hasnt given me a price ? If anyone on here has any for sale, let me know. Thanks, Jeff.
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Replies:
Posted By: SoundsUnlimited
Date Posted: 13 December 2012 at 1:46am
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I have used the trs218 and really liked them as they have a nice warm sound With lots of punch, I haven't herd the BR218, but as it looks like A standard folded horn I woudent expect it to sound quite as deep As a TRS218 , if I were you I would keep single cabs as they Are easyer to transport and more flexible you will notice quite a Big increase in spl if you add another pair of trs118s and they will Also play lower . ------------- http://www.soundsolutionssurrey.co.uk" rel="nofollow - Sound Equipment Hire Surrey http://www.soundsolutionssurrey.co.uk" rel="nofollow - PA Hire London |
Posted By: specialjustin
Date Posted: 13 December 2012 at 1:33pm
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He might be talking about an older model BR218 that looks like a bandpass to me? |
Posted By: scott101
Date Posted: 13 December 2012 at 8:04pm
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The old BR218 were bandpass and I think, so were the BR218S. If I was you, I'd get TRS. To my ears they are a nicer sounding cabinet. It also means you could push the boat out and get one of Ohm's best kept secrets to really enhance your bass.
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Posted By: dymondaudio
Date Posted: 13 December 2012 at 9:25pm
 ------------- If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid |
scott101 wrote:Posted By: davidk
Date Posted: 13 December 2012 at 9:52pm
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Hi mate, I have 8 X TRS 218 and i love them, but as you say you are looking for deep bass rather than hard hitting I would say that the BRs would suit you more. i would say this with either the older bandpass or the newer "horn loaded" style (if thats what they are i think). I used to have a few pairs of the older 600w (that actually have 2 x 400w drivers as do the mk 1 trs). These have a really fat sound but is lazier than a TRS. I found to get the best out of them they need a big amp behind them unlike the TRS that is a very efficient cab! The later BR218S came with the newer cast 500w drivers and sound even better and now they are the BR218B which is the "hornloaded" cab, again goes low but I dont think it hits as hard as a TRS. You need to know that the older BR cabs are MDF so are very heavy tho!! Good luck mate. Either way they are both cracking cabs! |
Posted By: lickweed
Date Posted: 13 December 2012 at 11:10pm
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The later br218s have 700w b&c drivers,i own a pair of these cabs
------------- http://www.liquidsound.co.uk/ |
Posted By: lickweed
Date Posted: 13 December 2012 at 11:23pm
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i thought older br218 are birch,mine br218s are birch ------------- http://www.liquidsound.co.uk/ |
Posted By: basshead2012
Date Posted: 13 December 2012 at 11:56pm
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No way is the new br218 horn loaded the cabinet size seems impossible! |
Posted By: specialjustin
Date Posted: 14 December 2012 at 12:59am
http://www.ohm.co.uk/hi-slide/includes/br218b.html |
Posted By: Pasi
Date Posted: 14 December 2012 at 9:55am
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Bandpass horn is the key words here regarding BR-218B. From those 2, i would go for TRS-218 and adjust the xover point and shape accordingly to reduce the punch and get softer, deeper sound out of it. |
Posted By: davidk
Date Posted: 14 December 2012 at 3:28pm
nowvPasi is the man in the know!!' 
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Posted By: Teknotice
Date Posted: 14 December 2012 at 4:54pm
| just saw... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ohm-BR-218-Subwoofers-Nexo-d-b-EAW-EV-HK-Turbosound-Funktion-One-/251198999599?pt=UK_ConElec_SpeakersPASystems_RL&hash=item3a7ca08c2f |
Posted By: Pasi
Date Posted: 14 December 2012 at 5:20pm
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Price seems to be very good at the moment and those old BR-218Bs are pretty good boxes. Very heavy, but as vibration free enclosure as it is possible to make. There is no larger area than a postcard size without bracing. |
Posted By: scott101
Date Posted: 14 December 2012 at 5:46pm
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I used to own those cabinets around 10 years ago (it's my handwriting on the backplate sticker). Unless they have been changed, they have 18" pressed tin chassis drivers in them, no internal filtering, and the wiring should have lots of black tie-wraps on them. Nice cabinet but heavy. They used to have the castor pack fitted but it doesn't seem to be mentioned in the listing?
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Posted By: lickweed
Date Posted: 19 December 2012 at 3:26pm
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Could someone confirm that they are mdf,i always thought that they are ply ------------- http://www.liquidsound.co.uk/ |
Posted By: darkraver
Date Posted: 19 December 2012 at 9:58pm
Why do people like Ohm TRS bass cabinets  ? Do not understand.
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Posted By: Robbo
Date Posted: 19 December 2012 at 10:19pm
| Its very simple really---They are one of the best 2x18 bass/sub cabinets that you can buy---Just compare a current model TRS218 with any Turbosound or Funktion One 2x18 and the TRS will beat any of them by quite a good margin actually. |
Posted By: darkraver
Date Posted: 20 December 2012 at 5:58am
| In my opinion with Community SBS25 one of the worst :). |
Posted By: dylan-penguinmedia
Date Posted: 20 December 2012 at 8:48am
In what respect?
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Posted By: darkraver
Date Posted: 20 December 2012 at 3:56pm
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Well the TRS218 I know rattle and vibrate like insane and that is a NO GO for me for sure. I know it is a wanted product in the UK but I never understood why ? Because it is made in the UK ? Community SBS25 (1200W version) new out of the box rattles and vibrates identical perhaps even more. Besides that I never played around with a cabinet that had so many air leaking problems  .I do love RS and SLS tops but the Community subs just suck !
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Posted By: dymondaudio
Date Posted: 20 December 2012 at 4:00pm
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If you've got a 218 (or any Ohm product) that rattles then it's been damaged in some way. Non-vibration is one of the many thing Ohm cabinets are renowned for! I've got several TRS variants as has a friend ,I can assure you that there are no rattles / un-wanted vibrations even when being spanked by a big amp. ------------- If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid |
Posted By: Robbo
Date Posted: 20 December 2012 at 4:19pm
TRS 218 cabinets do not rattle at all--in fact they are renowned for their build quality---If you have ever heard rattles coming from TRS boxes then they have either been f-cked about with or damaged or dropped in some way---In the last ten years, I have had well over 100 TRS218 cabinets pass through my hands (a lot have been sold to forum members on here) and yet to hear one rattle. Turbosound and Funktion One are made in the UK but they have never made a 2x18 to touch the current model TRS218 and that is why they are in big demand at present in the secondhand market. |
Posted By: darkraver
Date Posted: 20 December 2012 at 4:46pm
Well then all the 12 TRS subs I played with must all have some kind of damage cause they all rattle when being pushed quite hard  (800 and 1000W variants)If people think different and love them, fine with me, do not mind. We have recently compared a stack of 2 GAE BR118 with a single TRS218 and you will not believe the difference . |
Posted By: dymondaudio
Date Posted: 20 December 2012 at 4:51pm
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Somebody broke your TRS. ------------- If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid |
Posted By: Pasi
Date Posted: 20 December 2012 at 4:57pm
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What settings you had on your LMS when running TRS? Obviously there's been damaged boxes or user error. TRS-218 doesn't rattle even with 2.5KW input. Last time i tried was yesterday ;) |
Posted By: darkraver
Date Posted: 20 December 2012 at 5:12pm
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Well they are not mine ! Remember we swapped the original speakers some time ago as the original once kept on breaking down. (too hard driven) Originals were hard to get and rather expensive. Of course you can break anything due to abuse for sure but since the 18Sound speakers are in no more defect speakers have been reported  , they have a way better power handling.The rattling and vibrating is still there. Just put your hands on the back and the sides of the TRS218 and you will notice the cabinet vibrates quite heavily with or without the original speakers in. These are my findings. |
Posted By: burningbush
Date Posted: 20 December 2012 at 5:14pm
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Did you buy them from new? Have they ever been dropped? ------------- music is the message |
Posted By: dylan-penguinmedia
Date Posted: 20 December 2012 at 6:02pm
If you phone an OHM dealer, or OHM themselves, getting replacements or recones ordered, couldn't be easier. All of the OHM range have very comprehensive bracing inside the cabinets, and the woodwork is excellent. Sounds like something's not quite right....
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Posted By: basshead2012
Date Posted: 20 December 2012 at 7:35pm
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Heard one of the hung off a CFU A-2 on a single channel so probs around 1100 watts and wasn't very impressed? how much of a difference does feeding it 2.5kw make then Pasi? |
Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 20 December 2012 at 7:56pm
Bear in mind that Pasi's 2.5kw testing is done somewhat with a slightly more comfortable position on recones than pretty much anybody else! I've been telling our local TRS supplier to give his the full welly of a K10 and see what happens for a while but he doesn't seem to have the balls 
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Posted By: dylan-penguinmedia
Date Posted: 20 December 2012 at 9:03pm
I'd say you want an A3 to make them sing. We use A2's for a BR15 low mid, as an example. |
Posted By: Pasi
Date Posted: 20 December 2012 at 9:11pm
Basshead, big difference. You should try for example with powersoft K10 or similiar which is beefy enough. HPF at 40 and give them some welly ;) Toasty: Well, depends on how many boxes you have in one amp. 2 per channel won't cause issues. I'll have word with him ;) And you stop playing his amps with so low impedances :D |
Posted By: mk2_ginger_biscuit69
Date Posted: 20 December 2012 at 10:00pm
Fail1 - abusing kit with excessive input level, if the cabs cant deliver whats needed at sensible level, the application needs more kit [HEADROOM!]
Fail2 - replacing drivers with non originals. Driver TS parameters must be matched to the cabinets, power handling means didily squat if the sensitivity and response is all over the shop. You may find drivers which match, and also give a gain in sensitivity/excursion/handling, but you may find a different driver will have a terrible response all over the shop. Likewise, the driver could be hitting xmax or other mechanical limits through being badly twinned to the cabinet. All the TRS218's ive heard and used have been great ------------- ''Remember that the object of a subwoofer is to enhance the output of your main speakers, not overpower it'' ''Dubstep - an elongated electronic fart'' |
Posted By: darkraver
Date Posted: 20 December 2012 at 10:05pm
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Did you buy them from new? Have they ever been dropped? Yes, they used to be new and no they have never been dropped :) To drop all 12 at once is rather difficult. And no I would not put any "real" 2,5kw in any TRS218 for sure. Except for power compression and damaged speakers it will not make much sense. Or will the TRS218 play twice as loud while putting in 2,5KW ? do not think so .Risking damaging your cones for that, perhaps, 1db extra, is it worth it ? Remind an XTI6000 already tears apart the rather simple stock woofers inside the 800 and 1000W versions of the TRS218. The 18NLW9600 sure is an improvement, basically just because you do not damage these woofers that easily.You can beat these drivers hard without any problems ! Once we ran a test sweep over the TRS218 (800W version) and below 50hz they lost quite some SPL and you could hear "click click click", so the woofer was on the edge of breaking down again. We had expected it could handle much more.. It is not a sub that plays low and loud ! Same test sweep with the NLW9600 and no "click click click" and they kept going even when increasing input power :) !! |
Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 20 December 2012 at 11:33pm
Haha, I wouldn't abuse somebody else's kit, even if it does read 2r all night long! He's almost convinced to try it himself, so we shall see in the new year
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Posted By: mini-mad
Date Posted: 21 December 2012 at 2:05am
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please dont take offence.... were your trs218's copies?... i mean china will copy anything for a quick buck and so will anyone wanting to make a bit of ££££. did you buy them direct or "brand new" off someone you know? any well made sub shouldnt rattle.... let alone 12 subs! it kinda sounds like someones pulled a fast one on you is all. sorry... iv got wine in front of me... ------------- If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down. |
Posted By: darkraver
Date Posted: 21 December 2012 at 6:09am
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Fail1 - abusing kit with excessive input level, if the cabs cant deliver whats needed at sensible level, the application needs more kit [HEADROOM!] I totally agree. Trying to get more out of single unit by trying to put in more power does not make any sense. Best alternative would indeed be to increase the number of cabinets. That is why I think to try to put in 2,5kw is absurd ! Fail2 - replacing drivers with non originals. Driver TS parameters must be matched to the cabinets, power handling means didily squat if the sensitivity and response is all over the shop. You may find drivers which match, and also give a gain in sensitivity/excursion/handling, but you may find a different driver will have a terrible response all over the shop. Likewise, the driver could be hitting xmax or other mechanical limits through being badly twinned to the cabinet. Well I do agree again, you cannot just screw something differently in, just they have been in contact with 18Sound and some other Ohm users in advance who swapped speakers as well. Actually I have told them not to do it and spend the money on getting different subs, in fact I advised them to sell all TRS tops and subs but they decided differently. But anyway since then no more defects and the performance / sound did not get worse. And while doing a test sweep the drivers absolutely had a way better power handling ! The cabs are originals so no copies for sure :) |
Posted By: dylan-penguinmedia
Date Posted: 21 December 2012 at 10:14am
| Darkraver - you don't say where in the world you are on your profile - but if you're anywhere remotely near Cheshire, it might be worth a trip to OHM to have a listen to a TRS that isn't one of 'those 12' - and if its logistically possible even take one of the 12 along to be looked at, really sounds like something's up. |
Posted By: Pasi
Date Posted: 21 December 2012 at 10:26am
Sorry, but you don't seem to know enough to challenge me on this one ;) Once again, please tell what settings were used in LMS and how did you do the "sweep test". |
Posted By: Robbo
Date Posted: 21 December 2012 at 11:47am
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I have seen this problem before with TRS218 as we have had a lot of them come into us ex install either with blown drivers or lots of different ones that have been replaced by the venues. The main problem is being overdriven by idiots who have no knowledge or no respect for equipment that they are using and we have also seen some really badly set up systems with either totally wrong settings in the DSP or very poor limiting. In a 2x18 sub such as Turbo or F1 the drivers rear chamber is a sealed small enclosure so they will take a lot more abuse than a ported horn loaded cabinet design such as the TRS218 and this is why the TRS218 design will give out more SPL, go down lower in response than the Turbo or F1 design and at the same time sound better, but to get the best out of them, they have to be set up correctly as any abuse or wrongly set up DSP units will result in blown drivers. |
Posted By: kristoffdj1
Date Posted: 21 December 2012 at 12:06pm
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An I correct in thinking that a trs 118 is 'just' a single driver reflex box and a trs 218 is a twin driver ported horn? |
Posted By: darkraver
Date Posted: 21 December 2012 at 12:52pm
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Pasi, I doubt to be honest. Settings are the original Ohm ones :) so nothing strange or weird. We discussed this a while ago already..
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Posted By: darkraver
Date Posted: 21 December 2012 at 12:53pm
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I wrote a stack of 2 vs a single Ohm TRS
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Posted By: Pasi
Date Posted: 21 December 2012 at 12:54pm
Since i know what i'm doing, sure. Box is very underrated power handling wise anyway. Never blown a driver, not on these or anything else either. Just, list the settings here and we'll see. |
Posted By: dylan-penguinmedia
Date Posted: 21 December 2012 at 1:02pm
The original OHM settings won't be much use now yours have 18sound drivers in, making them your own hybrid... |
Posted By: darkraver
Date Posted: 21 December 2012 at 1:08pm
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Pasi, Luckily you are not the only person that has never blown any driver. I never did, but some people do. Especially DJs like red lights... And no I would not put any 2,5kw on a 800 or 1000W cabinet. Little mistake with processing and limiting and the party could be over before it has started.. Some while ago we played around with amps being tested on some 21" reflex ones. We managed to put in more than 4kw (or even 5kw, do not have details in front of me) into a listen 1600W AES 21" woofer. Does it make any sense.. Hell no, for that perhaps 1 db extra in my opinion is does not make any sense. |
Posted By: darkraver
Date Posted: 21 December 2012 at 1:10pm
Well the 18S were purely installed to prevend damaged speakers. Nothing more, nothing less. |
Posted By: Pasi
Date Posted: 21 December 2012 at 2:01pm
Point is, it's not a 1000W at it's latest version. 2.5k input won't kill it as long as your setup is correct. You have had badly setup system or something else wrong with. Or have you seen anyone else complaining about the same issues here? There is loads and loads of TRS users here and they haven't had any of these issues you say you had. Obviously it raises questions why you have had these issues, also considering that even 2.5k input won't damage the drivers and won't make cabinet rattle. |
Posted By: scott101
Date Posted: 21 December 2012 at 2:20pm
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darkraver, Having read this thread, there are only 3 assumptions that can be made. 1. Your cabinets are damaged (dropped, crushed, water damaged, thermal shock, previous missuse). 2. You cabinets are badly modified or altered from original (or copies). 3. Despite 1000's of cabinets being made and loved by 100's of sound engineers who use them daily, they somehow don't know what they are doing/listening for but you do. You've already discounted 1 & 2 so that only leaves 3. You're either very unlucky or some kind of genius.
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Posted By: darkraver
Date Posted: 21 December 2012 at 9:22pm
1. No, but some years old :) 2. No, unless the distributor did so. 3. There are like 10.000 so called "sound engineers" that use Dap Audio and they like their stuff as well. Conclusion: I just do not like the 800 and 1000W versions. Based on that experience I would suggest to TS not to stare blind on TRS only. |
Posted By: specialjustin
Date Posted: 22 December 2012 at 12:12am
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You got some pics of the 12 trs bins you have? |
Posted By: chilli
Date Posted: 23 December 2012 at 7:44am
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Seems like a lot of bins to buy if they aren't any good.. ------------- Money can't buy you happiness, but it can allow you to be miserable in comfort. |
Posted By: el chupacabra
Date Posted: 24 December 2012 at 12:42pm
| and for the price of the 24 18sound drivers you might aswell have just bought a new bass section altogether.. |
Posted By: darkraver
Date Posted: 25 December 2012 at 8:07pm
Good reading should not be that difficult As said before, I do not own them, just so now and then I have to work with them. I have my own stuff :) But I sure will have a pic. of some TRS218 somewhere
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Posted By: darkraver
Date Posted: 25 December 2012 at 8:12pm
Indeed, not my idea. Trying to update something in order to get a better performance is not my vision. If I do not like something I never update :) The 18s speakers were cheap to get and cheaper to get than the original 400W drivers. Getting decent speakers and moderate prices is not that difficult if you have your connections. |
Posted By: WHAT!
Date Posted: 29 April 2014 at 8:54pm
I know this thread is a bit older but anyway just to let you know: One of our customers put in the same 18s drivers as he was told by 18s that "these are specially designed for the TRS-218". Needless to say: He managed to kill 4 of them in no time - interestingly using XTI(4000) amps with "original Ohm settings" for his TRS as well. The cones looked like they had been torn apart by a tornado. He doesn't believe that his crappy amps and wrong settings in the processor cause that kind of damage. Compared to that I have been running TRS-218 with Matrix and PKNC amps much larger than that (running XE4000 and 6000 at the moment) and _never_ ever killed a single 18" driver in them. But then again I've never managed to kill a 12" Ohm driver in TRS-112 or 212 and I've been running them with loads of power indeed. |
Posted By: 5th
Date Posted: 28 December 2022 at 1:45pm
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Does anyone know what the "S" version is on the BR218S? Are they still a folded horn? To me "BR" means "bass reflex".
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Posted By: lickweed
Date Posted: 28 December 2022 at 2:22pm
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first version of 218s were band pass cabs. Later 218s wete the same as br218b , band pass horns first pic is 218s older version , second pic , newer version   ------------- http://www.liquidsound.co.uk/ |