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EX MoS Rig Restoration Project

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Forum Name: Show Off Your Sound System
Forum Description: Show of your gear. Post pictures of your Sound System here...
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Topic: EX MoS Rig Restoration Project
Posted By: Irie Lion
Subject: EX MoS Rig Restoration Project
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 12:18am
Right then people, as quite a few people suggested a new thread, here we go.

For people who have come here first this topic started on the

-=SHOW OFF YOUR SOUND SYSTEM!!!!=-PART 2 thread

from page 388-394, but I was kinda taking the thread over, so we've moved here for anyone who wants to keep an eye on the project or discuss it.

Big Love to everyone for your interest and kind words (makes a nice change from being grumbled at by the Mrs for always sneaking off to the workshop.)





Replies:
Posted By: infrasound
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 12:30am
Thumbs Up

Looking forwards to plenty more from this system

Thumbs Up


Posted By: b grade
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 12:37am
Awesome work.  The pics are like porn to me.  Big Beautiful Berthas.

Also, I live in the states and have never been anywhere that had those running.  Definitely something special there.


Posted By: Derek Paul
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 1:15am

OK now following this tread.  Can’t wait to see all six stacks, so you need to get going (apologies to the family Big smile )



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Derek
LakeDJ
California


Posted By: woody2
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 1:22am
re post the pics on this threadThumbs Up


Posted By: all bass
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 1:29am
Originally posted by woody2 woody2 wrote:

re post the pics on this threadThumbs Up

+1

Keep feeding us that porn!!


Posted By: T-Bone
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 3:07am
Yeaaaah buddy! I may have to build in the near future Emeralds!Clap

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BASS, how low can you go!


Posted By: King George
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 6:59am
Will be watching this closely, absolutely lovely system.... did you take any pics during the restoration?


Posted By: colint
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 7:56am
I was just looking at your photos and have to say this is a project of epic proportions. they are without doubt the best photo's of the system that I've seen and truly show the size of the system in all it's glory.
I agree with the others about the original horns but then we're not the people financing the system re-build are we? but it would be nice to see it as originally put together, Not to sure where the people got the original horns being harsh thing from as I use to frequent the MOS (Friday nights) and it always sounded awesome to me (if a bit scary at times)

Your work on this system is truly inspiring and will preserve the history of it and Richard Long so to you sir I tip my hat! without doubt the best thing I've seen of this forum Clap


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Never criticise another man until you've walked a mile in his shoes. Once you have, call him what you like, you're a mile away and you've got his shoes!


Posted By: jbl_man
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 9:21am
What do those Levans weigh,and how exactly do you manage to move them around? I do admire your spirit in tackling a project like this,but even moving them about to sand down/repaint must be a nitemare,with serious risk of personal injury or strain?


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Be seeing you.


Posted By: colint
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 9:31am
Originally posted by jbl_man jbl_man wrote:

What do those Levans weigh,and how exactly do you manage to move them around? I do admire your spirit in tackling a project like this,but even moving them about to sand down/repaint must be a nitemare,with serious risk of personal injury or strain?

I think they are about 250 kilos each Ian, I know they be a bitch to move but with the right kit not impossible. having somewhere to keep it all would be the real problem imagine how much space six stacks of that would take up?


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Never criticise another man until you've walked a mile in his shoes. Once you have, call him what you like, you're a mile away and you've got his shoes!


Posted By: Irie Lion
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 10:58am
Originally posted by King George King George wrote:

Will be watching this closely, absolutely lovely system.... did you take any pics during the restoration?


Got pics all the way through the project chap. I was a bit wary of flooding the forum with my pics, but now I have my own thread and people are asking for them, here ya go..

This is a picture given to me of the system whilst in MoS before I got my sticky mitts on it. You can see how dented the lovely DD horns were.


Jan 2009, removed the top/mid/kick sections from Mos and had to store them in my mates warehouse till I found premises of my own (can't really store this stuff in your garden shed.) I also removed 4x JBL ASH6118 (can see 2 of them on the left, well the back of them) from the bar system. The JBLs were awsome cabs but had to be sold to finance the project.

Apart from the cabs, these amps were all I got.


Jan/Feb 2010 Martin Audio finally finished building the new subs and I could finally take the Levans out.


All the bolts and screws had been painted over for 18 years, so no chance of taking the barn doors off in the club, so we had to take the Levans out with flares attached! 280kg each. I took a crew of 6 guys for the task, no worries.




We just squeezed all 6 levans into a 7.5T lorry, with a few inches still poking out the back, we couldn't even pull the shutter down, we just put the taillift up and that held everything in place


Now with my own storage sorted out we can finally start some work, this was the sorry state of the cabs at the beginning. I had dismantled the Levan horns by now.







Will continue the story in pictures in the next post....








Posted By: Jimmer
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 11:09am
Thanks for the pictures, it truly is a restoration project of epic proportions!! Would love to see all 6 stacks fully back to their best & I too would love to see the original JBL comps.....you know you want to Tongue.

Just out of
curiosity.....how on earth did you manage to get this system? Do you have links to Martin Audio? As they were running the install did you have to buy from them? or did MOS own/sell them?

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Light travels faster than sound....That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak!


Posted By: jbl_man
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 11:18am
Yes,thanks for the photos,and keep them coming.Well done.Clap

As Jimmer says,how come you managed to aquire this? Surely they didnt just give it to you?

There was a similar (albeit only four stacks) on ebay around a year ago,with four of the Levan bass horns,but with JBL bass,mids,and HF,complete with all the amps and processing and cabling,beautifully restored and ready to go (by Opus if i remember) for £15,000,so gives you some idea of the eventual value,although yours,being the M.O.S. system,will have extra value due to the connection and provinence.


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Be seeing you.


Posted By: Irie Lion
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 11:24am
Work halted in 2010 (As once my wife gave birth and stopped working I had to work 12-14 hours a day, 5 or 6 days a week to support us all. I'm an electrician by day job and this left no time for running off to the workshop) I moved to a nicer workshop in 2011 and January 2012 we started work again on the system. Just myself and different friends gave up time for free to come and strip paint in the freezing cold with me. By the summer we started painting the first cabs.



Took all the paint off the cabs, and repaired all the damage


My mate after the first coat of primer has gone on


Ying Yang


Yang Yang


Myself feeling chuffed. These were the first 2 cabs to recieve new paint (after nearly 8 months prepping!)


The Puissance got the same treatment, and then the DD horns. I rebuilt the curves from epoxy resin on the horns, which took ages as the resin had to be sanded by hand with sandpaper and a block. Not sure if I even have got pics of those cabs being done, I'll make sure to get some of the next lot.

Finished painting the last bits 29th December 2012, and this was taken the next day. Myself in there to give it a scale




As there has been such an interest in the project I shall keep telling the story as we go back to the beginning and start all over again on stacks 3&4. It's getting better as I chose the worst condition cabs to start with, so the work should get less heavy as we go through (in theory anyway)


Posted By: AUDIO HABIT
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 11:34am
wow what a great thread ,would love to know how you got hold of such a system Clap

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https://www.facebook.com/speakerplans   


Posted By: AM55
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 11:37am
It is that big and that much hassle I wouldn't be surprised if they paid him to take it away.


Posted By: Irie Lion
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 11:40am
A few Q&A

Originally posted by jbl_man jbl_man wrote:

What do those Levans weigh,and how exactly do you manage to move them around? I do admire your spirit in tackling a project like this,but even moving them about to sand down/repaint must be a nitemare,with serious risk of personal injury or strain?


The Levans are 279kg each, but I reckon you could add a good few more kg of paint to that when we received them from Mos. we have never tried to lift them, no point. I have built dolly boards (see the pics) and just wheel them to where they need to go. One man can easily wheel a cab about. You have to use a 7.5T lorry with taillift.



Thanks for the pictures, it truly is a restoration project of epic proportions!! Would love to see all 6 stacks fully back to their best & I too would love to see the original JBL comps.....you know you want to Tongue.

I have decided to go the route of going back to the original tops on the system, just gotta find about £4-5K to source 6 horns and comp drivers!  Got about £80 to my name this week!!

Just out of
curiosity.....how on earth did you manage to get this system? Do you have links to Martin Audio? As they were running the install did you have to buy from them? or did MOS own/sell them?

This system was owned by the Ministry and I bought it from them. I won't go into all the details here, but let's just say the old saying "it's who you know not what you know" is most definately true. I had a few good friends on the inside there (all of them have left the club now.)



As Jimmer says,how come you managed to aquire this? Surely they didnt just give it to you?

No, no. I had to pay a big chunk of money for it! I thought then (and still do) that this could be a good business opportunity, as well as brilliant fun (if a little bit insane) I can be a VERY determmined person when I set my mind on something.

There was a similar (albeit only four stacks) on http://www.ebay.com" rel="nofollow - ebay around a year ago,with four of the Levan bass horns,but with JBL bass,mids,and HF,complete with all the amps and processing and cabling,beautifully restored and ready to go (by Opus if i remember) for £15,000,so gives you some idea of the eventual value,although yours,being the M.O.S. system,will have extra value due to the connection and provinence.

I have shelled out a lot more than £15K so far (the wife ain't happy) and I have no intension of selling it after all that hard work. I will start a business with this rig that I hope will feed my family for the rest of my days.


It is that big and that much hassle I wouldn't be surprised if they paid him to take it away.

Oh I so wish that was true!!



Posted By: AM55
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 11:46am
If you market yourself right I think there could be a business opportunity there, even if it is just sticking them in long term installs.


Posted By: mykey-
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 11:48am
Originally posted by Irie Lion Irie Lion wrote:

A few Q&A

Originally posted by jbl_man jbl_man wrote:

What do those Levans weigh,and how exactly do you manage to move them around? I do admire your spirit in tackling a project like this,but even moving them about to sand down/repaint must be a nitemare,with serious risk of personal injury or strain?


The Levans are 279kg each, but I reckon you could add a good few more kg of paint to that when we received them from Mos. we have never tried to lift them, no point. I have built dolly boards (see the pics) and just wheel them to where they need to go. One man can easily wheel a cab about. You have to use a 7.5T lorry with taillift.



Thanks for the pictures, it truly is a restoration project of epic proportions!! Would love to see all 6 stacks fully back to their best & I too would love to see the original JBL comps.....you know you want to Tongue.

I have decided to go the route of going back to the original tops on the system, just gotta find about £4-5K to source 6 horns and comp drivers!  Got about £80 to my name this week!!

Just out of
curiosity.....how on earth did you manage to get this system? Do you have links to Martin Audio? As they were running the install did you have to buy from them? or did MOS own/sell them?

This system was owned by the Ministry and I bought it from them. I won't go into all the details here, but let's just say the old saying "it's who you know not what you know" is most definately true. I had a few good friends on the inside there (all of them have left the club now.)



As Jimmer says,how come you managed to aquire this? Surely they didnt just give it to you?

No, no. I had to pay a big chunk of money for it! I thought then (and still do) that this could be a good business opportunity, as well as brilliant fun (if a little bit insane) I can be a VERY determmined person when I set my mind on something.

There was a similar (albeit only four stacks) on http://www.ebay.com" rel="nofollow - ebay around a year ago,with four of the Levan bass horns,but with JBL bass,mids,and HF,complete with all the amps and processing and cabling,beautifully restored and ready to go (by Opus if i remember) for £15,000,so gives you some idea of the eventual value,although yours,being the M.O.S. system,will have extra value due to the connection and provinence.

I have shelled out a lot more than £15K so far (the wife ain't happy) and I have no intension of selling it after all that hard work. I will start a business with this rig that I hope will feed my family for the rest of my days.


It is that big and that much hassle I wouldn't be surprised if they paid him to take it away.

Oh I so wish that was true!!

''I have decided to go the route of going back to the original tops on the system, just gotta find about £4-5K to source 6 horns and comp drivers!  Got about £80 to my name this week!!''

Na! where did you get that figure?

Someone will snap those Martin horns up. Tony Wilkes may help you out with the Coax BMS comps. Tony ASS could help out with the B&C Coax and I could help out with the horns.



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BbbBBRAAAAPppBBBBbgushhhhhhhhssshhhhhGrAbRAAAAAAPPPPPp = Dubstep


Posted By: colint
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 11:56am
Originally posted by Irie Lion Irie Lion wrote:

A few Q&A


I have shelled out a lot more than £15K so far (the wife ain't happy) and I have no intension of selling it after all that hard work. I will start a business with this rig that I hope will feed my family for the rest of my days.




I hope you achieve your goal I couldn't think of a nicer way for a PA nut to earn a living hard work yes but well worth it I should think.
I bet there are more than a few people on here that are green with envy this morning.


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Never criticise another man until you've walked a mile in his shoes. Once you have, call him what you like, you're a mile away and you've got his shoes!


Posted By: jbl_man
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 11:57am
Originally posted by AM55 AM55 wrote:

If you market yourself right I think there could be a business opportunity there, even if it is just sticking them in long term installs.


Yes,i was thinking the same AM55....im sure a lesser club would love to have this system installed/rented to them,surely the best option,as the logistics to using it as mobile sound system would be frightening!....it makes even those giant RCA-Showco folded horns from the early 70's look small.


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Be seeing you.


Posted By: Irie Lion
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 11:57am
Originally posted by mykey- mykey- wrote:


 ''I have decided to go the route of going back to the original tops on the system, just gotta find about £4-5K to source 6 horns and comp drivers!  Got about £80 to my name this week!!''

Na! where did you get that figure?

Someone will snap those Martin horns up. Tony Wilkes may help you out with the Coax BMS comps. Tony ASS could help out with the B&C Coax and I could help out with the horns.



I'm clearly in good company here! I will talk to all the people about sourcing these parts. I am quite excited at the prospect of getting 2 horns for now to finish the stacks that are ready, and I will have to do the others as the stacks are completed.
 It's now too cold to paint in my unheated workshop in the British winter, so I'm on stripping & filling duties till Aprilish ( i'm hoping to strip the lot this winter) then when spring hits and it warms up onto painting.


Posted By: nuclearbass
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 11:59am
wow, this really is a mamoth rig.... ive never been to mos, were all 6 stack sin there. what kinda power are we talking about here?

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one life - have fun!
Force fusion pro audio


Posted By: Irie Lion
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 12:42pm
Originally posted by nuclearbass nuclearbass wrote:

wow, this really is a mamoth rig.... ive never been to mos, were all 6 stack sin there. what kinda power are we talking about here?


Yes. The people who started Mos and those early people involved were heavily influence by the Paradise Garage. So they also went for the 6 RLA stacks (as did the garage, different stacks there though.) I have pics of one of the Paradise Garage stacks somewhere (MoS had 6 identical stacks, but the Garage's stacks wern't all the same. 80% RLA cabs though)

Now when people start talking about power of systems I sometimes just switch off. I've heard people banding about unbelieveable figures for their rigs, and of course Watts does not equal decibels.
So how do you measure the RMS of a rig??? Do you use the nominal handling rating of the drivers??
do you calculate it from the power of the amps you are using??? do you use peak figures or continuous??
I don't know. The Levans are loaded with 2 x 1000W continous program drivers and are driven by a crest pro 9001 amp, one levan per channel each channel putting 2200W into 4 ohms.

The Puissance also loaded with 2 x 1000W continuous program drivers, driven by a crest p8001 amp putting out 1225W per channel into 4 ohms.

DD Horns loaded with 2 x 600W continuous program drivers, driven by a crest P7001 amp putting out 810W a side into 4 ohms.

tops currently 2x Martin Audio 6.5" high mid horn each rated at 150W cont. driven by a crest p4801
putting out 400W a side into 8 ohms.
and 2 x Martin audio 1" comps rated 60W each cont. driven by a crest p3301 putting out 240W a side into 8 ohms

Obviously peak figures for the drivers much higher. Now you know as much as I do. I'll let you tell me the power of this rig.  I've heard it in the club and I can tell you that it was incredibly loud, but also really clear and defined. The sub bass used to jangle my balls around and was slightly overpowering at times (nice) the kicks used to feel like you were being hit squarely in the chest by a drunk Irishman with a hammer and the mid horns and tops together used to sparkle, and were really clear and deliver crystal clear vocals and high hats.

And before anyone points out that different amps may be better etc. etc. I must say that these were the amps used in the club for nearly 20 years, and I can't afford to replace any of them at the moment. It cost enough to repair and service the amps i got. So these are what I shall be using for now.


Posted By: jbl_man
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 12:47pm
Those old Crest amps are nice,and being the original ones,you should stick with them,and with a system of this weight,who cares if the amp racks are heavy?

By the way,i assume the 6 RLA Levans were actually built in the US and shipped over here originally?


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Be seeing you.


Posted By: mucsavage
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 12:49pm
I will travel on a plane for the sole purpose of hearing this rig. Amazing.

Thanks for doing this, gives a chance to hear the sort of system in the Paradise Garage for us unfortunates who were too young.

Beautiful


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 12:52pm
they're good amps alright. totally agree on the "how many K is it?" talk..


Posted By: Irie Lion
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 12:57pm
Originally posted by jbl_man jbl_man wrote:

Those old Crest amps are nice,and being the original ones,you should stick with them,and with a system of this weight,who cares if the amp racks are heavy?

By the way,i assume the 6 RLA Levans were actually built in the US and shipped over here originally?


They were certainly prepared in the US, but I'm not 100% sure they were shipped assembled. I think they might have been assembled in the UK. I'll check with Austin when we both get a chance to talk to each other.  Eventually the website shall be built and I want to put a comprehensive history of Richard Long, GSA's role in installing the rig and of course a history of MoS on there. It will all take time, but we will get there.


Posted By: mykey-
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 1:35pm
They were built in the club itself I was told.

At the time 2 of my friends were offered the door contract. This was when the club was still being built. I saw them a few hours after their meeting and they told me I should have gone with them because there were guys building speakers in the club, saw bench, saw dust etc you name it.  


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BbbBBRAAAAPppBBBBbgushhhhhhhhssshhhhhGrAbRAAAAAAPPPPPp = Dubstep


Posted By: jbl_man
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 1:38pm
Thanks Mike,that's interesting.


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Be seeing you.


Posted By: T-Bone
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 1:42pm
I would also like to fly out there (9.5 hrs from Tampa, FL) just to experience it all over, what was that a hammer hitting your chest? I had heard also in NYC the club Palladium in the 90's they used Crown 5000Vz for the Berthas but for the Midtops they used EAW BH500 mounted horizontally above these with a 10" EAW MR101 next to it and a CD horn and of course on the dance floor JBL bullets.Nuke

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BASS, how low can you go!


Posted By: mykey-
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 1:42pm
You have to remember that the MOS club was very well thought out as regards to sound proofing. I heard that system when the MOS first opened. It would move your internal organs about.

They basically had a club built into a building that already existed. So if you would go outside of the room they called 'THE BOX' there was basically a tunnel going round the perimeter of the box. 2 very thick walls and a heavy duty sound proof ceiling. You had to have this because the systems volume was immense. If you pout 6 stacks of that outside they will shut you down very quickly. Then you have to ask yourself......why am I bothering. It's fact, don't want to put you n a downer.

Different if you lived in say Australia, middle of nowhere. UK? nope.....yeah eighth of the volume maybe   


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BbbBBRAAAAPppBBBBbgushhhhhhhhssshhhhhGrAbRAAAAAAPPPPPp = Dubstep


Posted By: King George
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 1:47pm
Without doubt one of the best threads on here in a long time...

Do you have any kind of system to hold the stacks together? I'd hate to see a big blue ratchet strap slung round something like this....

I'd also say at this point, if you do go down the JBL horn route, whilst it may be tempting to sell the Martin Audio tops, I would be tempted to hold on to them for a little while, then you have the option of using the system as it was originally, or as the Martin Audio modified version.
A client who knows a little about the MoS system will know that Martin Audio tried to improve it, and may want to hire it in that state rather than the original.

Impressive work anyway!!!


Posted By: Irie Lion
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by King George King George wrote:

Without doubt one of the best threads on here in a long time...

Do you have any kind of system to hold the stacks together? I'd hate to see a big blue ratchet strap slung round something like this....

I'd also say at this point, if you do go down the JBL horn route, whilst it may be tempting to sell the Martin Audio tops, I would be tempted to hold on to them for a little while, then you have the option of using the system as it was originally, or as the Martin Audio modified version.
A client who knows a little about the MoS system will know that Martin Audio tried to improve it, and may want to hire it in that state rather than the original.

Impressive work anyway!!!


Apart from the top boxes, the rest of the stacks whilst in the club were just held in place by their own weight. All three cabs are massive heavy. Even the DDs take four of us to lift properly once the drivers are in. I promise you there will never be a ratchet strap lobbed round the stack. If I need to devise a way of securing the stack, I will invent a way of doing so without ruining the look.

I don't think I will sell the Martin tops after replacing them with the horns (I only have 2 Martin tops loaded anyway) as Even after restoring the stacks back to look same as '92 it would be good to also be able to offer the rig in its 1997-2009 incarnation too. As this is a historical project I want to make it as complete as possible.



Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 2:02pm
Now i really like how this develops. This is what this place is all about.
On the JBL horn subject, Martin tried to improve the sound of the top end, and they did it i am sure, jbl drivers (the old ones) do tend to sound harsh when pushed. But it that horn is now fitted with a BMS4592 and processed i am sure you wont complain at all. On a plus side that horn is really big and can load the driver really low. Not sure how low the JBL horn was cut but 600Hz wont be a problem for the BMS. It also extends up to 25KHz.
Drivers are not cheap, but talk to Tony i am sure he will be happy to help on this. If not let me know ill see what i can do about it, but only if Tony could not. I wont interfere in his business.

Keep up the good work and let us know how we can help.


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Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: jbl_man
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 2:13pm
Originally posted by Irie Lion Irie Lion wrote:



I don't think I will sell the Martin tops after replacing them with the horns (I only have 2 Martin tops loaded anyway) as Even after restoring the stacks back to look same as '92 it would be good to also be able to offer the rig in its 1997-2009 incarnation too. As this is a historical project I want to make it as complete as possible.




Completely agree with that...with something of almost historic importance as this system try to keep it as authenitic as possible,dont let anyone tell you that "this lightweight amp will be better" or "this driver is better"...even if the original spec drivers have now been improved on,its important to keep it genuine.

You are lucky in that most of the components are still available,something which i wasnt able to do restoring Froggy's system,due to the demise of Gauss,and the long gone RCF L12p24's etc etc.


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Be seeing you.


Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 2:30pm
Inspiring stuff! 

How are you stripping the cabs back?  Belt sander?  Grinder and a flap disc?  Might be worth taking the other ones to a furniture stripper and dunking them in a big tank?  Just an idea like, it looks like an awful lot of work but i can see why your doing it!


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James Secker          facebook.com/soundgearuk


Posted By: Laurin
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 2:32pm
AWESOME! Clap 

My heart starts beating faster as I was reading through the tread.
I dont know where to start, ok I am the biggest RLA gearhead in Germany. Embarrassed


I bought two EAW Berthas from the UK a few years back and a RLA Emerald from the states.
Richard did two clubs here in Germany, the Dorian Gray (Frankfurt) and the Trinity (Hamburg).
The system from the Trinity has someone in his shed and he did not want to sell it but maybe one day...

I have build my own versions of the Bertha and the Waldorf and would love to hear your stacks. 

btw
I had a very nice contact to Gary Stewart.
Very helpful and a nice guy to talk to.  

Are you on facebook?


Posted By: Irie Lion
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 2:37pm
Originally posted by jbl_man jbl_man wrote:

Originally posted by Irie Lion Irie Lion wrote:



I don't think I will sell the Martin tops after replacing them with the horns (I only have 2 Martin tops loaded anyway) as Even after restoring the stacks back to look same as '92 it would be good to also be able to offer the rig in its 1997-2009 incarnation too. As this is a historical project I want to make it as complete as possible.




Completely agree with that...with something of almost historic importance as this system try to keep it as authenitic as possible,dont let anyone tell you that "this lightweight amp will be better" or "this driver is better"...even if the original spec drivers have now been improved on,its important to keep it genuine.

You are lucky in that most of the components are still available,something which i wasnt able to do restoring Froggy's system,due to the demise of Gauss,and the long gone RCF L12p24's etc etc.


Oh don't worry there, I want to keep it as genuine as possible. The drivers were changed many many times during its 17/18 years in the club, so there's no point trying to put the original drivers in there. I'm just sticking with the same drivers that were in there at the end, with the exception of changing the tops.
I absolutely love Crest P series amps, I have used them for years on my little sound and I just can't fault them. I'm not a convert to switchblade amps. I'd rather wheel my 180kg amp racks around than have the same power in a 2U unit that weighs as much as a chocolate bar. So I fully intend to keep the amplification the same, if i loose an amp I'll source another one to replace it.
Digi amps (same as linearray speakers) can put out massive power from small things, but I don't like the sound. Volume but not depth in my (probably contenscious) opinion.
The processing will be different, but I will keep the visual look of the system the same always (new horns on top excepted.)


Posted By: Laurin
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 2:40pm
What did you use for the Levans?

In my EAW Berthas where RCF L18P200N and in the RLA Emerald was a Eminence OEM driver without any markings. 


Posted By: Irie Lion
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 2:54pm
Originally posted by Timebomb Timebomb wrote:

Inspiring stuff! 

How are you stripping the cabs back?  Belt sander?  Grinder and a flap disc?  Might be worth taking the other ones to a furniture stripper and dunking them in a big tank?  Just an idea like, it looks like an awful lot of work but i can see why your doing it!


Ah now stripping the paint was a learning curve indeed. Tried the trade version of nitromors (chemical paint stripper) first. bear in mind that the paint at thickest at the bottom where it had run was about half an inch thick, it just took ages, and when you got down to the original paint it just laughed at the chemical stripper, so we ditched that idea.
Belt sanders were next, this also took forever, and by the time we'd melted the fourth belt sander (we would just run them for hours on end) we ditched that one too.

Next I bought electric heat guns, worked ok, still took ages. I melted two heat guns before seeing this was going the same way as the belt sander idea.

Considered getting the cabs dipped at a furniture restorers, looked into it and found out you can't dip ply only solid wood, as it does something to the formaldehyde that bonds the layers of ply together.

Looked into getting them sand blasted, the blaster was 30 miles from my workshop, didn't go that route due to cost, logistics, and had a reservation that sand blasting the cabs might damage them a bit.

Next we moved on to blow torches and scrapers (gave up on electric tools, they just didn't like being run all day) As long as you're dilligent with the flame this worked the best out of all the methods I tried. So We stuck with that, blowtorching most of the paint off, then belt sanding the last bit.

Oh yes it is very time consuming. To strip a complete Levan (the bertha and horn) took one person 8 days! (getting about 6 hours work done a day)  When I was only getting one day a week at it on my own that 8 days translated to 2 months just to strip one cab, and that's before repairing/filling and painting it.

The work required has been phenominal, but that's why I've been given this project, I'm one stubborn character who just has to see anything I start through to the end.


Posted By: Irie Lion
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 2:56pm
Originally posted by Laurin Laurin wrote:

What did you use for the Levans?

In my EAW Berthas where RCF L18P200N and in the RLA Emerald was a Eminence OEM driver without any markings. 


read back on the thread when it started on the show off your sound sytem part 2 thread, all explained there.


Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 3:07pm
Labour of love. Fantastic.

When you´ve done the lot, you really need to find a big festival to fire them up. That should be some party.

Smile  Clap  Smile




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Earplugs Are For Wimps!


Posted By: jbl_man
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 3:07pm
By the way Irie,there was a RLA 4-way crossover on ebay US a few weeks back,im guessing this would have been the original one for your system? I will keep my eye out if another comes along for you.



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Be seeing you.


Posted By: Tedski
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 3:15pm
Wow man, amazing rig and hats off for restoring her.

I was just going to ask what kind of crossovers you are going to use, the RLA ones I guess?
Or maybe the nice BSS FDS analogue ones?

Clap


Posted By: Irie Lion
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 3:25pm
Originally posted by jbl_man jbl_man wrote:

By the way Irie,there was a RLA 4-way crossover on ebay US a few weeks back,im guessing this would have been the original one for your system? I will keep my eye out if another comes along for you.


Yes! that was the same as the original xover (well this rig had the GSA version when it was first installed) they are sought after bits of kit. I know a guy in Belgium who has the original RLA xover from studio 54!  I am only just managing to find the money to actually restore the cabs, buy missing amps, and build all the cabling and distro etc etc, so I havn't let my mind wander into the realms of trying to get kit like the original xover. I bet as soon as i finish the resto work my mind will quickly move onto adding kit like this. If you do spy one going please do let me know, it would be great for authenticity. Although the Richard Long designed xover was actually controlled by the DJ, not the engineer, and these days there's not that many DJs I'd trust to use it properly!

I enquired round the club to see if the original xover was lurking in a cupboard, but alas that vanished years ago, who knows where that went?


Posted By: b grade
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 3:38pm
Oh dear god, I would not let a DJ touch my pa settings.  That happened once, and the DJ blew my subs by fixing the channel 2 level, which was turned all the way down because it was in bridge.

burning plastic smell...

no more bass....

Frantic attempts to resuscitate...

said DJ coming over and asking why the bass turned off, and if both channels should be turned up....

listen to all of the other djs complain about my sh**ty sound for the rest of the night...

recone.


Posted By: Onslaught
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 4:45pm
Bit of a silent reader here but I just want to say wow! This is some serious dance music nostalgia you've undertook here and I can't wait to hear it, such a fascinating thread to read.

Stripping these cabs sounds a like a grim affair too! 


Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 5:14pm
Clap  Mykey pointed out about the subs being built in the mos.... this is something i was told many many years ago..... as it was too expensive to fly them over from the states...... so the cab builders were flown in to do it......
 
I would love to hear this rig again, brings back so many happy memorys.....


Posted By: King George
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 5:17pm
Originally posted by bee bee wrote:

Clap  Mykey pointed out about the subs being built in the mos.... this is something i was told many many years ago..... as it was too expensive to fly them over from the states...... so the cab builders were flown in to do it......

Thats amazing..... how times have changed, just proves MoS really thought the concept through.


Posted By: T-Bone
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 5:56pm
I concur that's an original of an orig R L A crossover, so its called man your system will sound the best with those Irie! Thanks jbl_man for showing those memories . . .Wink

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BASS, how low can you go!


Posted By: simonh
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 8:23pm
Awesome system and I remember it from my clubbing days back in the 90's....  It's fantastic that your restoring a piece of British clubbing history.  Keep up the great work, would love to hear the old girl again..


Posted By: godge
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 9:16pm
WOW, what a nice system, it will be nice to hear this when it is all finished. Still can't get over the size of those subs, you get a real sense of the size when someones stood next to them


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 9:29pm
fantastic to see this, i remember reading an article in light and sound international around the time that it was installed, and it went into quite a bit of detail as to how it was powered and processed. I should have it still somewhere, and if i can find it, ill scan it and post it.

I agree with others as regards getting the original flares, but would strongly suggest going with the b&c or BMS coax sources. As the system stands, i suspect as it could sound quite dull without the tweeter boxes, the top end 1" section of the W8c could never keep up with the rest of the box, so i doubt 2 of them could cope with the rest of that stack!

It may interest you to know that last time i went through Arlanda airport in Stockholm, they have many many of those giant JBL flares, as originally used on this system  hung in the arrivals hall as the tannoy system! i dread to think what that install cost, there must be over 100! Next time im there, ill take a picture...


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www.impulseaudio.co.uk


Posted By: Irie Lion
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 9:38pm
Originally posted by csg csg wrote:

fantastic to see this, i remember reading an article in light and sound international around the time that it was installed, and it went into quite a bit of detail as to how it was powered and processed. I should have it still somewhere, and if i can find it, ill scan it and post it.


That would be absolutely great if you could. I have been told that the crest amps (with the exception of the 9001's) were the original amps used. Some of my research said that the main processing was taken care of by a BSS Omnidrive in combination with the BSS FCS926 Varicurve. That's all the info I could find from the early days.


Posted By: dylan-penguinmedia
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 9:58pm
I believe towards the end of when your system would have been used, it was a rack of BSS Soundweb 9088's dealing with the processing, with MoS now using the London's. I was on the first SW London training course at Harman with 3 of the techs from MoS, one of them asked how they could give some control of the processing to the booth as some DJs request it on their riders (think David Guetta was mentioned specifically) - you should have heard the comments in the room after that revelation!

This thread is going to be an epic one, I feel.... Great work sir!

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penguinmediasolutions.com


Posted By: njw
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 10:07pm
  Just a thought, but what were the reasons for MoS getting rid of this system and installing the Martin Audio stuff? I have no doubt that this system would blow your socks off at 20 metres and still sound as sweet as a very sweet thing so, as the saying goes; If it ain't broke....


Posted By: Sheggy
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 10:13pm
There was a lot of hype over the MOS sound system when it opened. I was young, stupid and off my nut when I was there so great to see what this. I still have my original membership card from the opening.

Great work!

S


Posted By: Irie Lion
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 10:24pm
Originally posted by njw njw wrote:

  Just a thought, but what were the reasons for MoS getting rid of this system and installing the Martin Audio stuff? I have no doubt that this system would blow your socks off at 20 metres and still sound as sweet as a very sweet thing so, as the saying goes; If it ain't broke....


I quite agree, but if they hadn't replaced it, we wouldn't be talking, and this thread wouldn't exist, so well done Ministry I say.



Posted By: Sheggy
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 10:37pm
I'm sure I'm not the only curious one, what will you do with it? From your name I'm hoping you will play something heavy..


Posted By: njw
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 10:39pm
Originally posted by Irie Lion Irie Lion wrote:

Originally posted by njw njw wrote:

  Just a thought, but what were the reasons for MoS getting rid of this system and installing the Martin Audio stuff? I have no doubt that this system would blow your socks off at 20 metres and still sound as sweet as a very sweet thing so, as the saying goes; If it ain't broke....


I quite concur, but if they hadn't replaced it, we wouldn't be talking, and this thread wouldn't exist, so well done Ministry I say.

  
 
 Couldn't agree more! Thumbs Up


Posted By: Irie Lion
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 10:44pm
After quite a storm of forum activity I thought I'd repost the pics from the other thread for those who might not see them, and that will be about it from me for a bit. I'm gonna be stripping and prepping over the winter, so I'll keep the project reported here, but there probably arn't going to be any more pretty pics for a while, a half stripped cab isn't going to be that exciting (but I'll still put a couple up at key stages,) and I've put up most of the pics worth seeing so far. Thanks again for all the words of support. It's given me a real boost knowing that people have been inspired by my crazy dreams












Posted By: mykey-
Date Posted: 06 January 2013 at 5:27am
Originally posted by njw njw wrote:

  Just a thought, but what were the reasons for MoS getting rid of this system and installing the Martin Audio stuff? I have no doubt that this system would blow your socks off at 20 metres and still sound as sweet as a very sweet thing so, as the saying goes; If it ain't broke....
When MOS first opened the sound was truly blo-dy awesome, analogue too, and I think it should be kept that way.

After a short while the bare area in MOS needed a sound system and some local guy put a shed load of Wembley B-lines in there, it sounded awful. Next thing I know the bar SOUND contract was up for grab.

 All my mates at that time were working on the door and some of them told me to go for it. Well as I was working out what I would what I could do, Martin Audio's VERY CLEVER marketing team said they would instal a brand new sound system for FREEAngry. Well if you think about it, it's a super smart move........best club in the world needs a sound system....mmmmmm! lets put one in for FREE and use it on all our marketing spiel.  Slowly but surly the cancer of Martin audio spread it's disease through out the clubLOL

When I come back to the UK I will go to MOS (grey hair and all) for a listen, and I will tell you if it's better than it was 20 odd years ago.


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BbbBBRAAAAPppBBBBbgushhhhhhhhssshhhhhGrAbRAAAAAAPPPPPp = Dubstep


Posted By: B.P.Sound
Date Posted: 06 January 2013 at 10:10am
I would like to say what a great thread.
       BUT you MUST set up a Website with all the build pictures and all. I am sure it would give you lots of work even photo shoots, Film Sets etc.
    I take it the Levans were named after Larry and designed & built by Richard Long.
 
Here is a link to one of the 20th anniversary write ups from MOS which may help get some photos(You probally all ready have these but may help).
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/feb/27/ministry-sound-club-20th-birthday" rel="nofollow - http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/feb/27/ministry-sound-club-20th-birthday
 
 


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http://www.londoneventrentals.co.uk/ https://www.facebook.com/LondonEventRentals


Posted By: FlipC
Date Posted: 06 January 2013 at 10:24am
Am I gay that this thread gives me an erection?

Great work mate.


Posted By: anjmoor
Date Posted: 06 January 2013 at 11:19am
I am sure you may have scoured the web for original pics but I did find this one  http://www.classof808.com/image/4233797271
I remember how good this system was and certainly will never forget it 


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constipation is a thief of time, diarrhea waits for no man.


Posted By: jbl_man
Date Posted: 06 January 2013 at 11:52am
Originally posted by anjmoor anjmoor wrote:

I am sure you may have scoured the web for original pics but I did find this one  http://www.classof808.com/image/4233797271
I remember how good this system was and certainly will never forget it 


Good photo that,you can see the vhf JBL bullet arrays hanging from the ceiling joists quite well in that.




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Be seeing you.


Posted By: jbl_man
Date Posted: 06 January 2013 at 12:37pm
Probually one of the most interesting threads we have had on here the last few years,so have made this a sticky.


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Be seeing you.


Posted By: onefootskenk77
Date Posted: 06 January 2013 at 12:58pm
System has got a long good history musium piece maybe

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EMPIRE SOUND


Posted By: Irie Lion
Date Posted: 06 January 2013 at 3:23pm
Originally posted by anjmoor anjmoor wrote:

I am sure you may have scoured the web for original pics but I did find this one  http://www.classof808.com/image/4233797271
I remember how good this system was and certainly will never forget it 


That's the best pic by far I've seen of the system in the club, many thanks for that, well thanks to everyone for all the little bits of info that are coming in, pics and stories.

Originally posted by B.P.Sound B.P.Sound wrote:

BUT you MUST set up a Website with all the build pictures and all. I am sure it would give you lots of work even photo shoots, Film Sets etc.
    I take it the Levans were named after Larry and designed & built by Richard Long.
 

Oh yes, a website will come. I have invisaged a site with the complete history of the sound system, so starting with the story of Richard Long until his sad demise, then a little about what happened to his legacy (I believe that Gary Stewart Associates pretty much picked up Richards work and continued to offer his designs, as did SBS Shorty)  Then the history of the system in the MoS (I don't want to do a history of MoS, that's been done to death already, but none of the things out there really say much about the system apart from to say "best system in the world" or even complete rubbish like it's louder than a jet plane or it cost a million pounds) so my history will be from the rigs point of view. I will also include the history of the rebuild too.
Interestingly I have already spoken to a few guys in the advertising and also music video fields who expressed an interest, so I hope you're right there B.P.
The Levans were indeed named after Larry Levan, designed by Richard, but unfortunately he died several years before the Ministry opened so these Levans were built by GSA from Richards plans.
In fact the DD horns you see in the system were a Richard Long design but never got built in his lifetime (well never sold to anyone at any rate) and it was only because he left his designs to his good friend Kenny Powers (have I got that right??) that this design was built and saw the light of day.

Originally posted by Sheggy Sheggy wrote:

I'm sure I'm not the only curious one, what will you do with it? From your name I'm hoping you will play something heavy..

Well OK then, where do I start? Maybe I should introduce myself first. Someone with a rig like this must be a mover in the industry eh? Not not at all really. I am firstly a passionate music lover, music is my life really (not producing it, and not really DJing that much, I just love listening to great music)
and have done since I was given my first turntable at 4 years old (with the massive spindle in the middle of the platter that you were supposed to stack vinyls on and they would drop down automatically.) Even at 4 years old I couldn't bring myself to stack one piece of precious vinyl on top of another, whoever came up with that idea??  From a young age I just loved wiring things together and making things work. In the early 90's I was in my late teens and was a child of the rave generation and loved the parties back then. There was an energy about in those times which I hardly ever see in the world today. I was (until family came along) an avid vinyl collector, and still prefer vinyl to any other format. As well as loving dance music I have also been a massive reggae and dub fan, and it was through this love that I started to develop a love for sound systems. As well as loving the music that has come out of Jamaica for so long, I also love Jamaican culture, and I see sound sytem culture being born there. Back in the 50's people like Tom the Great Sebastian etc would tour their sounds round the island and put on dances on street corners or in a yard and people would come from miles around to dance to the sounds. This culture grew and grew and by the 70's ska had switched to rocksteady then reggae and the sound systems multiplied and multiplied. Now I just love imagining these times, they must have been amazing, I have many old Jamaican friends who tell me stories about those days. King Tubby is one of my heroes, as the man was a genius, not only credited with inventing dub music, he was also an electronics master and would custom build or modify pretty much every bit of electronics used in his studio and sound system. Anyway I won't go on but these guys are my inspiration, and if I lived in a country I could get away with it then that would be what I would be doing too! Unfortunately England in 2013 if I rocked up somewhere and just started a dance with my soundsytem I would probably be added to the wanted terrorist list and shot!

So ok there's my growing up musical background (well a bit of it) About 12 years ago I got offered out of the blue a pair of Cerwin Vega V153 trapeziod full range cabs, brand new, so I bought them and thought, now what am I going to do with these then? Well what I did was build 2 15" scoops (purely because another friend gave me 2 JBL 15" cones) and just found the money for a couple of amps, a crossover and a comprssor/limiter. (I'm not even going to say what these first bits were, I shudder now to think about those cheap horrible electronics that I started out with.) and my friends and I started doing parties in our local pub. It has never been a job, I just love doing sound, playing music and having parties, and everyone else seemed to appreciate it too. I pretty much have used that rig for 12 years (albeit now with Crest P series and DBX processing,) and am still using it now, it's great for up to 200 people. I do reggae gigs with one crowd of friends, hip hop/funk/soul/reggae parties with another group, drum & bass parties with another group, and other random things here and there. Over the years the reggae side of things got a bit larger and the reggae collective I'm part of started doing more regular gigs and started doing a weekly internet radio show (still going.) I have met over the years sooo many people involved in music, and even though i run a little pub sound many of my friends have done well as producers, MCs, engineers, cab builers, party organisers/promoters and the like.
Now as said before very much coming from the Jamaican sound system school of thought, so nearly everything we've needed apart from electronics has been hand built. If I need cables I'll make 'em up, most things we use are home built. If I don't know how to make something I'll learn.
Now in 2008 a very good friend who had worked at MoS for a long time contacted me and pretty much suggested I buy the MoS rig. Like me he absolutely loves that system and I think he really wanted me to have it because he knew what I would do with it. He knew I would restore it and love that rig, and respect her history. (He wanted me to have it for the rigs own good!) If someone else had got it who knows what they'd have done with it (split it up? stick it in a rich collectors barn?) My friend and I both agreed that the system needed restoring, and it needs to be HEARD. It has sooo much rich history attached to that system (more than probably any other rig in the world) and she's just not ready for retirement yet. In fact many people say that system (at it's best) has never been surpassed.
It took 8 or 9 months of wrangling with MoS before they finally agreed to let me buy it (they wanted more cash than I could offer, but my life savings and a little loan from a mate was all I could get) So the little guy with his 2.5K pub rig ends up taking the most famous sound system there has probably ever been (in the UK certainly)  Life can certainly surprise you! but worry not people, it's in good hands, I'm known amongst my friends for getting things done. If I take 5 years in the workshop to do this, I will.

So what was that all about, oh yes Sheggy I'm no big DJ, but I will have to do a party here and there for my crowd (can you imagine how much I want to play on that rig???) and that would also certainly be a heavy roots and dub session, but also want to do some dances with 88-94 dance music, these are the things closes to my heart (party wise)
but I'm not kidding myself, I'm more of an engineer than a DJ so I'm probably not going to be the one playing on it that much (apart from my own private parties i guess) so what's going to playing on it won't be my call if I hire it out.

Originally posted by mykey mykey wrote:

When MOS first opened the sound was truly blo-dy awesome, analogue too, and I think it should be kept that way.

Totally agree with that! From reading above you may guess that I love analogue equipment. Not only for the sound of it, but also I have never been to college and studied sound, all self taught with good advice from friends. I've always thought that if you understand the equipment you're using, your ears work and you brain is connected to them, then you should be able to get the sound you want. I understand analogue equipment far more than the mysterious mathmatical realm that is digital. As I only finished painting in the last week or so I havn't spent much time planning out the processing side of this rig. To start with I'm gonna just have to make what I've got work so I can get started. As soon as is possible though I would love to put together a nice rack of analogue gear and have a digi free rig.  For years I have used the entry level DBX driverack on my baby rig and have always got on well with it. so when I was offered a Driverack 4820 for cheap a few years ago I grabbed it without doing any research as I'd always liked the baby driverack. Now I have never used it yet, it is all controlled by laptop which might be nice, but will probably be more of a pain. I'd much prefer a load of knobs to twiddle (no sniggering at the back there) but for now it's all i got so I'm gonna have to make it work. The first chance I can afford it I'm going to have to start researching what process I want, but all this will come in time.



Posted By: studio45
Date Posted: 06 January 2013 at 3:25pm
Originally posted by b grade b grade wrote:

Oh dear god, I would not let a DJ touch my pa settings.  That happened once, and the DJ blew my subs by fixing the channel 2 level, which was turned all the way down because it was in bridge.

Presumably he is now a eunuch with a limp? LOL


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Studio45 - Box Builder Commotion Soundsystem -Mobile PA


Posted By: b grade
Date Posted: 06 January 2013 at 3:48pm
Originally posted by studio45 studio45 wrote:

Presumably he is now a eunuch with a limp? LOL

It was one of those times where I knew exactly what happened, but I was not right there watching him do it, add he played innocent.  My fault for walking away from my rack once everything seemed tuned in.  Sound guys don't get to use the bathroom ya know.  Cry  Pay went to repairs that night.


Posted By: Laurin
Date Posted: 06 January 2013 at 7:14pm
Originally posted by b grade b grade wrote:

Oh dear god, I would not let a DJ touch my pa settings.  That happened once, and the DJ blew my subs by fixing the channel 2 level, which was turned all the way down because it was in bridge


Some god reading on this and other topics.
http://www.agaragetribute.com/tech.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.agaragetribute.com/tech.html



Posted By: +/-3dB
Date Posted: 06 January 2013 at 7:42pm
Originally posted by Laurin Laurin wrote:

Originally posted by b grade b grade wrote:

Oh dear god, I would not let a DJ touch my pa settings.  That happened once, and the DJ blew my subs by fixing the channel 2 level, which was turned all the way down because it was in bridge


Some god reading on this and other topics.
http://www.agaragetribute.com/tech.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.agaragetribute.com/tech.html



Same text but with block diagrams, stack pictures, measurements etc.
http://www.acoustilog.com/disco1.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.acoustilog.com/disco1.html


Posted By: dylan-penguinmedia
Date Posted: 06 January 2013 at 10:50pm
Originally posted by Irie Lion Irie Lion wrote:


So what was that all about, oh yes Sheggy I'm no big DJ, but I will have to do a party here and there for my crowd (can you imagine how much I want to play on that rig???) and that would also certainly be a heavy roots and dub session, but also want to do some dances with 88-94 dance music, these are the things closes to my heart (party wise)
but I'm not kidding myself, I'm more of an engineer than a DJ so I'm probably not going to be the one playing on it that much (apart from my own private parties i guess) so what's going to playing on it won't be my call if I hire it out.


I think i speak for the vast majority on here - if there was to be a suitable venue found, you'd get most of us in attendance to that one! There's some resourceful types on here, sure some stops could be pulled out for a SP party to your new rig.... Wink


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penguinmediasolutions.com


Posted By: mykey-
Date Posted: 07 January 2013 at 5:57am
lol
yeah they would help with the 'put up' but soon disappear with the 'tear down'


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BbbBBRAAAAPppBBBBbgushhhhhhhhssshhhhhGrAbRAAAAAAPPPPPp = Dubstep


Posted By: mykey-
Date Posted: 07 January 2013 at 6:01am
Originally posted by jbl_man jbl_man wrote:

Originally posted by anjmoor anjmoor wrote:

I am sure you may have scoured the web for original pics but I did find this one  http://www.classof808.com/image/4233797271
I remember how good this system was and certainly will never forget it 


Good photo that,you can see the vhf JBL bullet arrays hanging from the ceiling joists quite well in that.


I remember the stickers too. I think you should get some made up.


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BbbBBRAAAAPppBBBBbgushhhhhhhhssshhhhhGrAbRAAAAAAPPPPPp = Dubstep


Posted By: TONY.A.S.S.
Date Posted: 07 January 2013 at 9:58am
Great pictures here of the system. I was a regular at a nearby venue when the MOS thing started up. People would come into the club and talk about a system that had never been done before. Richard Long's name was mentioned and so I assumed he had designed and built the system. 
I've never paid too much attention to the system, but this interests me now. Regarding the system, I know the Subs are folded horns, but I've never seen the format. Looking at the thick front, I was wondering whether the speaker is loaded from the back and fires down a slot before expanding into the horn. This is not an uncommon method. Secondly was the rest of the system all EAW. What I'm actually interested in was how much of the system was actually designed by RLA.


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http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3" rel="nofollow - http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3


Posted By: Irie Lion
Date Posted: 07 January 2013 at 10:20am

Originally posted by mykey mykey wrote:

I remember the stickers too. I think you should get some made up.

The "no dancing on this surface" stickers??
mmmm, well it was no joy removing the remaining glue from the kicks left over from those stickers. For authenticity you could replace them, but after getting these cabs back to perfectly flat, clean & painted you are gonna have to really convince me to put any sort of stickers back on them. I was trying to make the cabs look brand new again, and I'm loath to cover up a single inch of these cabs now. I refused even to put handles on the cabs as I thought it would ruin the look, and I wouldn't attach castors to the back either, which is why I made big dolly boards to move them, so you won't see any wheels once set up.


Posted By: Irie Lion
Date Posted: 07 January 2013 at 10:34am
Originally posted by TONY.A.S.S. TONY.A.S.S. wrote:

Great pictures here of the system. I was a regular at a nearby venue when the MOS thing started up. People would come into the club and talk about a system that had never been done before. Richard Long's name was mentioned and so I assumed he had designed and built the system. 
I've never paid too much attention to the system, but this interests me now. Regarding the system, I know the Subs are folded horns, but I've never seen the format. Looking at the thick front, I was wondering whether the speaker is loaded from the back and fires down a slot before expanding into the horn. This is not an uncommon method. Secondly was the rest of the system all EAW. What I'm actually interested in was how much of the system was actually designed by RLA.


The subs are a twin 18" W bin (with added flare on the front) The drivers are loaded from the back of the cab and fire forwards into a thin channel. As I go through the resto of the next 2 stacks I'll keep a diary on here with pics of the cabs in detail. Excluding the top boxes all the other cabs were designed by Richard. Richard Long passed away on December 9, 1986 so 5 years before before GSA (who kind of took over where RLA left off after Richards death) started construction of this system. Later on EAW started to offer their version of the bertha (forget the model number now) but as far as I'm aware they dont offer the Puissance or DD Horns. All these cabs you see in my system were designed by Richard Long (RLA), and built and installed by Gary Stewart and his team (including Austen Derek) from GSA.

EDIT - I said "later on EAW started making a version of the bertha", but I might be slightly wrong there, I do seem to remember reading that EAW actually did manufacture cabs for RLA back in the 80's. Can anyone confirm this???


Posted By: Laurin
Date Posted: 07 January 2013 at 10:51am
The EAW number is the BH882.
I have compared my 882 to my RLA Emerald (single Bertha) there are only some minor differences in the horn throat.

Here is the 882 Plan:
http://www.dancetech.com/aa_dt_new/pa/plans/EAW_BH882.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://www.dancetech.com/aa_dt_new/pa/plans/EAW_BH882.jpg

http://hornplans.free.fr/wpimages/wpe7f856fa_41.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://hornplans.free.fr/wpimages/wpe7f856fa_41.jpg

There are a few threads about the BH882 here onboard.  
 

Edit:
Yes EAW manufactured RLA cabinets back in the 80ths. 



Posted By: njw
Date Posted: 07 January 2013 at 7:52pm
Originally posted by dylan-penguinmedia dylan-penguinmedia wrote:

Originally posted by Irie Lion Irie Lion wrote:


So what was that all about, oh yes Sheggy I'm no big DJ, but I will have to do a party here and there for my crowd (can you imagine how much I want to play on that rig???) and that would also certainly be a heavy roots and dub session, but also want to do some dances with 88-94 dance music, these are the things closes to my heart (party wise)
but I'm not kidding myself, I'm more of an engineer than a DJ so I'm probably not going to be the one playing on it that much (apart from my own private parties i guess) so what's going to playing on it won't be my call if I hire it out.


I think i speak for the vast majority on here - if there was to be a suitable venue found, you'd get most of us in attendance to that one! There's some resourceful types on here, sure some stops could be pulled out for a SP party to your new rig.... Wink
   
 
  Oh yes!! This system playing oldskool house, rave and techno and I'm the first in the queue!Heart


Posted By: dylan-penguinmedia
Date Posted: 07 January 2013 at 11:19pm
Originally posted by njw njw wrote:

Originally posted by dylan-penguinmedia dylan-penguinmedia wrote:

Originally posted by Irie Lion Irie Lion wrote:


So what was that all about, oh yes Sheggy I'm no big DJ, but I will have to do a party here and there for my crowd (can you imagine how much I want to play on that rig???) and that would also certainly be a heavy roots and dub session, but also want to do some dances with 88-94 dance music, these are the things closes to my heart (party wise)
but I'm not kidding myself, I'm more of an engineer than a DJ so I'm probably not going to be the one playing on it that much (apart from my own private parties i guess) so what's going to playing on it won't be my call if I hire it out.


I think i speak for the vast majority on here - if there was to be a suitable venue found, you'd get most of us in attendance to that one! There's some resourceful types on here, sure some stops could be pulled out for a SP party to your new rig.... Wink
   
 
  Oh yes!! This system playing oldskool house, rave and techno and I'm the first in the queue!Heart


Second.... Wink


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penguinmediasolutions.com


Posted By: pfly
Date Posted: 07 January 2013 at 11:51pm
You could mash up quite large reggae events with the MoS system too, I'd guess.

Great work, great gear, great heritage!


Posted By: lgosdset
Date Posted: 07 January 2013 at 11:56pm
stack all 6 in a corner.


Posted By: Irie Lion
Date Posted: 08 January 2013 at 12:26am
Originally posted by pfly pfly wrote:

You could mash up quite large reggae events with the MoS system too, I'd guess.

Great work, great gear, great heritage!


Thanks alot,  now wouldn't that be nice, mmmmmmmm


Posted By: pfly
Date Posted: 08 January 2013 at 12:54am
Mono stack of 6 Levans would be insane, I'd guess.

2 high, 3 wide... hmmm... Would need a forklift though.


Posted By: woody2
Date Posted: 08 January 2013 at 1:49am
a local club/bar had a ex mos dj on and used there logo on the flyer, the club settled (out of court for 100k)how do you plan to get around the legal stuff?


Posted By: dylan-penguinmedia
Date Posted: 08 January 2013 at 1:54am
Originally posted by woody2 woody2 wrote:

a local club/bar had a ex mos dj on and used there logo on the flyer, the club settled (out of court for 100k)how do you plan to get around the legal stuff?


100k what, yen?
If that's true then they're idiots.

And where's the legal issue here? It's an ex MoS system - not being marketed as MoS on tour or anything. No logos on the boxes.

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penguinmediasolutions.com


Posted By: T-Bone
Date Posted: 08 January 2013 at 2:19am
Yes Irie, I happened to sneaked into Richard Long's big shop in Long Island City, New York in my early days as a mobile DJ. I was amazed at Studio 54 and thought I dropped in to his shop one afternoon in the mid 80"s his secretary let me in his shop and that's how I me Richard firsthand he showed me a full range all horn loaded 3 way speaker for mobile use, it was unloaded as I remembered with just bare wood it was 4 feet tall with a scoop shaped low end(15" woofer) like the BH800 and a midhorn and phase plug like your DD Horn and a 70 degree 1" horn (probably JBL) not sure. This speaker later became an EAW full range all horn loaded cabinet which EAW sold lots of.Wink

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BASS, how low can you go!


Posted By: omari7
Date Posted: 08 January 2013 at 2:35am
Glad to see you guys in Europe still have the passion and love for audio like some of us here in the US.
If someone here is interested in doing what Irie Lion did... I have in my storage:
 
4 RLA Puissance
4 RLA DD
and 4 JBL 2395 Lens horns
 
The main problem is the gear is in USA.
 
Omari NYC
mailto:ar49@nyu.edu" rel="nofollow - ar49@nyu.edu


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Omari


Posted By: Daniel S
Date Posted: 08 January 2013 at 11:38am
What an absolutely fascinating thread :) Good job on the restore job. Clap
 
If you want to find out more about the Richard Long legacy and GSA systems, give this site a visit:
http://www.wavemusic.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=9 - http://www.wavemusic.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=9
 
The former moderator, Scotty who sadly passed away a couple of years ago, used to be the owner of a Richard Long installation on Coney Island, NY.
Gary Stewart of GSA used to be a member too and posting quite frequently until he sadly passad away this fall.
 
Your thread on here has been linked to as well :) 
http://www.wavemusic.com/community/showthread.php?t=13408 - http://www.wavemusic.com/community/showthread.php?t=13408
 
Some trivia from the top of my head:
The Puissance horn is name after Kenny Powers. Puissace is French for Power.
 
The original 3 way crossover is not for the full system. It has Bass, Full and Tweeters outputs. Bass was going to the Berthas/Levans. Full was going to the stacks on top of the Berthas. Those stacks had an additional crossover not controlled by the DJ. The tweeters output was sent to the bullet arrays hanging from the ceiling. The crossover was placed next to the DJ mixer and worked more like an isolator than a system crossover.


Posted By: Soundboy20
Date Posted: 08 January 2013 at 1:53pm
Love this rig, you've done an amazing job mate - looks amazing! I know it's been a (long) labour of love! 
 
I'll give you a call soon as I've potentially got some more of our 'favourite amps' that might help the project along!
 
Cheers Rex


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RCH Audio Engineering www.rchaudioengineering.co.uk


Posted By: colint
Date Posted: 08 January 2013 at 4:48pm
@ Irie, when you get bored of all that sanding and rubbing down and you have nothing to do have a read though this little lot you may find it of interest.

http://www.acoustilog.com/disco1.html



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Never criticise another man until you've walked a mile in his shoes. Once you have, call him what you like, you're a mile away and you've got his shoes!


Posted By: Irie Lion
Date Posted: 08 January 2013 at 9:09pm
Originally posted by woody2 woody2 wrote:

a local club/bar had a ex mos dj on and used there logo on the flyer, the club settled (out of court for 100k)how do you plan to get around the legal stuff?

Ah yes MoS is notorious for trying to sue anyone who even vaguely steps on their toes. I have seen many times at different festivals a little side tent (and I mean little, it can hold a dancefloor of about 8-10 people with a DJ and two smartly dressed bouncers on the door.) It is called the Miniscule of Sound, and they have vaguely ripped off the logo. It a free curiosity I guess (there was a bloody good DJ playing when I went in there) I think they only ever appear in side areas of festivals and it is always free. The Ministry tried to sue them guys, even though they have never advertised and have never charged any money. I don't think that time MoS was sucessfull. There's no need for MoS to get upset unless I start overstepping the mark. I can say "the Ex MoS rig" as that is a fact and they can't moan at that. As long as I don't use their logo, or try to infer that whatever I'm doing with it is connected with the club currently, then there's no problems. I have no intension of using MoS to advertise this rig, to say it is the ex mos rig is all you need to say, this rig is probably more famous than any other in the world, and believe me I'm not going to try and do the same with it as MoS did. I've got  a whole load of diverse plans, and none of 'em involve trying to be a superclub.


@ Daniel S - thanks for all the great info. I had a rough idea of how the RLA crossover worked but thanks for the precise explanation. Hopefully one day I will find one and add it to the kit. I hope one day to have the whole rig restored, with nice analogue boxes like the RLA cross feeding it, and of course the original horns too. Oh what a goal! might be a few years in the making to get there.


@Rex  - Thanks a lot for your words fella, you can take some credit for helping find those missing amps. I only need a 9001 and a 3301 to complete the 15 amps to drive the rig. However now I have decided to go back to JBL horns I might not need to replace that third 3301 now, as that only drives the 1" comp in the Martin boxes. I will keep the 2 Martin boxes I have, but if I do ever decide to load the other 4 boxes it will be long in the future after everything else has been done. Mind you it took me 3 years to find the second 3301 (well you found) so maybe I shouldn't shut my mind off to that third one!


@Colint - Thanks a lot chap, it's interesting reading that one. I came across it a few years ago when I first got the rig and started trawling the net for info anything to do with it.  A little way into my research I soon realised that to fully understand why that rig IS that rig, and the early days of MoS, then you had to learn about the Paradise Garage also. I don't think that MoS would have ever been started if there had never been a Paradise Garage.


Posted By: Wikl109
Date Posted: 08 January 2013 at 9:29pm
As others have also said i've read this thread with great interest.
I've only ever had 2 real ambitions in my life, 2 things that i always said one day i'd love to be able to do.
One of those was to be able to go to The Ministry Of Sound and dance to one of the most famous sound systems on the planet.
In June 2005 I went to London for the weekend and managed to achieve this dream. Kurtis Mantronik was playing which was also amazing to see.
I have to say this was one of the best nights of my life, I was just constantly smiling. It still makes me smile now thinking about this.
This was all just a couple of weeks before the July 2005 London bombings.
I'm so glad someone who truly cares about the system managed to get hold of it and it didn't just get trashed by some free party crew.
Thankyou Irie for taking the time to restore such an amazing system to it's former glory.
Again as others have said just keep it all as original as possible, looks like you've done a great job so far.
This has been one of the greatest threads ever on Speakerplans.

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Cheers, Chris.


Posted By: Laurin
Date Posted: 08 January 2013 at 9:44pm
If you want to completely understand the history behind the system you should read "Loves Saves The Day" by Tim Lawrence.
ie why Richard used something like the DJ crossover (RLA X2000/3000/4000) 

Have you seen the movie "Maestro"?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWpAYtmsqqM

Still in the progress to make a german translation for all my non english speaking friends here in germany.
(And if you read this Tim, yes I will get in touch with you after I finished this project Tongue)


Posted By: mucsavage
Date Posted: 08 January 2013 at 10:00pm
Some beautiful old footage in Maestro there, special vibes


Posted By: Irie Lion
Date Posted: 08 January 2013 at 10:31pm
Originally posted by Daniel S Daniel S wrote:


The former moderator, Scotty who sadly passed away a couple of years ago, used to be the owner of a Richard Long installation on Coney Island, NY.

Was this the system installed round the dodgem cars on the pier?(are they called that in the US? maybe called bumper cars there?) I have heard of a RLA install which surrounds a dodgem car track (i know track isn't the right word, what is the area called that you would drive dodgem cars round anyway???) that does sound like something worth experiencing.



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