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ASS System refurb

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Topic: ASS System refurb
Posted By: oldskool
Subject: ASS System refurb
Date Posted: 04 February 2013 at 4:30pm
Sorry for the phone picture, these MX 800s have just returned from a full refurbishment by their original maker, Mr Tony Rossell at ASS. They all have the correct B&C drivers and will be used to add a bit of present day rumble to the concert system when those cabinets have been refurbished and the horn and lens boxes are completed. Although not exactly small or light, they are a lot easier to move around than the JBL 4520 type cabs that Froggy used and the 18 inch drivers in these should be able to hurt you from quite a distance. More to come as the system is made ready to shake East Anglia.

  


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Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies



Replies:
Posted By: supremesoundz
Date Posted: 04 February 2013 at 4:39pm
More pics please.. These look the business!!


Posted By: oldskool
Date Posted: 04 February 2013 at 4:43pm
These are two of the "before" pictures.
 
 
 
 
 


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Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies


Posted By: burningbush
Date Posted: 04 February 2013 at 4:44pm
You can just see the lenses laying there.  OOOOOh, super fine.


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music is the message


Posted By: oldskool
Date Posted: 04 February 2013 at 4:48pm
I have to say Tony did a super job, they were stripped down, flat sanded, filled, re-sanded, painted three coats of PU, grills sprayed, wadding replaced, rewired and new speakons fitted where necessary. The speaker access panels were reinforced and all new screws and bolts were used. They really do look brand new. Am now thinking of getting our Matrix chums to supply a couple of their big beasties to move the cones around a little. 

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Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies


Posted By: oldskool
Date Posted: 04 February 2013 at 5:12pm
Yes you are right Gavin, you can see one of the 2395s ready for sorting out. Also there is one of my Brand new old stock MEGA one inch radials. Have got six of those, all as shiny as if they were just out of the moulds as well as six JBL 2345. That way we can use 12 one inch drivers all ticking over to give us a lovely sparkly top end.

   


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Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies


Posted By: burningbush
Date Posted: 04 February 2013 at 5:14pm
You and Ian will have to have a face off/clash ting.


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music is the message


Posted By: oldskool
Date Posted: 04 February 2013 at 5:27pm
That would be fun, how many strong men and trucks would it take to move both our rigs?LOLLOLLOL
Seriously though, Ian has many, many more of the bass and mid cabs than me so I think it would be a walkover for him. His rig is all about keeping it vintage and authentic of the period. My experiment is to use bang up to date drivers, actually a mixture of BMS and B&C to see if we can give some of these modern rigs a run for their money.

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Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies


Posted By: TONY.A.S.S.
Date Posted: 23 February 2013 at 1:12am
I've just seen this thread for the first time. All I can say is I hope the pride I took in doing the job equaled your pride in owning the cabs. I'll be doing your Concert cabs soon.

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http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3" rel="nofollow - http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3


Posted By: GregM
Date Posted: 23 February 2013 at 7:27pm
ClapClapClap to all.
 
I do get a nice warm feeling from seeing/reading about the restoration of this sort of kit.... Embarrassed
 
I for one would be very very interested in hearing both the rigs mentioned here in full swing - surely between us all we could collaborate and arrange something together to help the owners shift it to somewhere suitable for a 'play'?
 
Greg


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Remember, if you don't want to hear the answer, don't ask the question!


Posted By: oldskool
Date Posted: 26 February 2013 at 7:56pm
Greg.
 
Sounds like fun, would be happy to take the rig out to see what you guys think of it in this day and age. Also coming back into this after 25 years in retirement I have a lot to catch up on too. 


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Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies


Posted By: oldskool
Date Posted: 26 February 2013 at 8:02pm
Originally posted by TONY.A.S.S. TONY.A.S.S. wrote:

I've just seen this thread for the first time. All I can say is I hope the pride I took in doing the job equaled your pride in owning the cabs. I'll be doing your Concert cabs soon.
 
Tony, people might call me sad but I had to go to our storage units anyway yesterday and couldnt resist opening the other unit up just to look at these for a while. They have given the whole unit that "new speaker smell." Anything exceptional comes with that pride of ownership, it can be cars, guitars, or in this case ASS speakers.   


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Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies


Posted By: oldskool
Date Posted: 27 February 2013 at 5:13pm
While I am at it let me say that I paid a very fair price indeed and given the quality of the work it was really a bargain. I would recommend Tony's refurbishment work just as much as his design and manufacturing.

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Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies


Posted By: paulus
Date Posted: 27 February 2013 at 5:40pm
 I would recommend Tony's refurbishment work just as much as his design and manufacturing. + 1 
had 10 new rx18s over the years .needless to say quality pretty un touchableClap


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TRENDSETTER SOUND SYSTEM


Posted By: Dreadlocks
Date Posted: 27 February 2013 at 6:06pm
had 8 new rx18s over the years .needless to say quality pretty un touchableClap

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Its Not About Having Everything Thing You Want,
Its About Wanting Everything You Have


Posted By: jbl_man
Date Posted: 27 February 2013 at 7:04pm
Tony is the best cabinet maker in the UK,the fact that i have some of his 35 years old now,and they still look good speaks volumes in itself.

Even a Rolls Royce doesnt last that long!


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Be seeing you.


Posted By: oldskool
Date Posted: 12 August 2013 at 12:48pm
OK slight sidetrack and this is the first time I have used Photobucket so it may take a little while to get it all right. More of the Concert System cabs are with Tony and we have another batch on the way to us so no new boxes to look at yet. Anyway went and dug the Matamp analogue crossovers that will be controlling the rig out of the lock up yesterday. Got the top one from Ian (JBL Man), middle one from Ken (knet94) and the bottom one has just been lying around here for about ten years. Noticed for the first time that the bottom one has some fluted knobs. They look fine on the unit but not sure they are original.

http://i1315.photobucket.com/albums/t592/leegardner1/WP_20130811_001_zps4bc15c5e.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://i1315.photobucket.com/albums/t592/leegardner1/WP_20130811_001_zps4bc15c5e.jpg
 
Have had hardly any time to really look inside these, wonder what the link connectors are for on the left of the rear panel?
 
http://i1315.photobucket.com/albums/t592/leegardner1/WP_20130811_002_zps35aa1a40.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://i1315.photobucket.com/albums/t592/leegardner1/WP_20130811_002_zps35aa1a40.jpg
 
This looks like unbalanced ins and outs which I find quite surprising even though my SuperNova has unbalanced outputs. This could be a minor pain in the backside as a result.

http://i1315.photobucket.com/albums/t592/leegardner1/WP_20130811_005_zpsa938df87.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://i1315.photobucket.com/albums/t592/leegardner1/WP_20130811_005_zpsa938df87.jpg
 

This one has LD after the serial number (does this mean Line Drivers?) Looks like we could have balanced outputs which is a step in the right direction.

http://i1315.photobucket.com/albums/t592/leegardner1/WP_20130811_004_zpsb293118a.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://i1315.photobucket.com/albums/t592/leegardner1/WP_20130811_004_zpsb293118a.jpg
 
So although I would dearly love to keep an analogue signal chain it might not be possible if the amp racks are far away in the case of two of these crossovers. We will be using an ASS processor/filter too to control the subs at the beginning of this thread, that should take care of distance between FOH/Decks and the amp racks. Looks like we need to have a look at BSS/KT or even Lake to get a nice sounding unit. No point compromising at this stage of the game. So does anybody have any further info on these crossovers? Let the debate begin and all comments welcome.  



  


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Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies


Posted By: oldskool
Date Posted: 26 September 2013 at 7:31pm


The latest instalment, six Concert 212 mids and four Concert 215 bass. All unloaded, half without wheels but they are on the way back to essex. This was taken this morning when they were collected from Gothenburg in Sweden. Once Tony has finished the refurb on the concert cabs he already has in his workshop, these will be taking their place and we will be one step closer to the official launch with the full system and all refurbed by the man himself.  


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Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies


Posted By: TONY.A.S.S.
Date Posted: 26 September 2013 at 8:04pm
Oh Joy.

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http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3" rel="nofollow - http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3


Posted By: simonh
Date Posted: 26 September 2013 at 8:24pm
Can't wait to see pictures of the finished rig.  You should see if you could get the rig into one of the rooms at Caister one year, would be great to see and hear it there. 


Posted By: GregM
Date Posted: 26 September 2013 at 8:46pm
What a great idea Simon - as long as us geeky types could get have a close up look at the gems.....

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Remember, if you don't want to hear the answer, don't ask the question!


Posted By: colint
Date Posted: 26 September 2013 at 8:48pm
Originally posted by TONY.A.S.S. TONY.A.S.S. wrote:

Oh Joy.



LOL


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Never criticise another man until you've walked a mile in his shoes. Once you have, call him what you like, you're a mile away and you've got his shoes!


Posted By: jbl_man
Date Posted: 26 September 2013 at 8:51pm
Its a good idea,but Morris did speak to the organisers on my behalf re.using Froggy's stuff there,no joy im afraid,but maybe you will have better luck.


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Be seeing you.


Posted By: BASSHORSE
Date Posted: 26 September 2013 at 8:54pm
Bad ASS!Thumbs Up


Posted By: oldskool
Date Posted: 26 September 2013 at 9:01pm
Have only just realised these are going to cost me 20 new B&C drivers.Confused ... Shift+R improves the quality of this image. CTRL+F5 reloads the whole page.
Don't mind taking the rig to Caister but with 18 of these cabs, 24 boxes with the one inch radials, two inch radials and lenses plus the 8 x MX800 subs it's quite an exercise in logistics and we need plenty of real blokes without dodgy backs. Still, its probably about time Caister had some serious ASS with 30 kW of grunt behind it. LOL ... Shift+R improves the quality of this image. CTRL+F5 reloads the whole page. 

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Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies


Posted By: GregM
Date Posted: 26 September 2013 at 9:11pm
Originally posted by oldskool oldskool wrote:


............ and we need plenty of real blokes without dodgy backs...... 


Count me (and my back) in guys, I'd be we'll chuffed to be part of the road crew for a retro event like this!

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Remember, if you don't want to hear the answer, don't ask the question!


Posted By: simonh
Date Posted: 26 September 2013 at 9:17pm
Originally posted by jbl_man jbl_man wrote:

Its a good idea,but Morris did speak to the organisers on my behalf re.using Froggy's stuff there,no joy im afraid,but maybe you will have better luck.

That's a shame Ian, Greg & I would have love to seen and hear that.  There a clicky bunch and I get the impression its all about the pound.....

I think you should put on your own version of the night, along with oldskool  Big smile


Posted By: BASSHORSE
Date Posted: 26 September 2013 at 9:17pm


Just to add to big ups TClap best built/sounding bass binz eva!,,. Beer 


Posted By: simonh
Date Posted: 26 September 2013 at 9:19pm
Originally posted by GregM GregM wrote:

Originally posted by oldskool oldskool wrote:


............ and we need plenty of real blokes without dodgy backs...... 


Count me (and my back) in guys, I'd be we'll chuffed to be part of the road crew for a retro event like this!

And me too, it would be an honour.


Posted By: djeddie
Date Posted: 26 September 2013 at 9:23pm
Originally posted by simonh simonh wrote:

Originally posted by GregM GregM wrote:

Originally posted by oldskool oldskool wrote:


............ and we need plenty of real blokes without dodgy backs...... 


Count me (and my back) in guys, I'd be we'll chuffed to be part of the road crew for a retro event like this!

And me too, it would be an honour.

I think I can see what's gonna happen here! Ten entry-fee paying customers and 350 roadies!


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Chas n Dave : it's like Drum and Bass but with beards.             E=mc² ±3dB


Posted By: oldskool
Date Posted: 26 September 2013 at 9:29pm
Originally posted by simonh simonh wrote:

I think you should put on your own version of the night, along with oldskool  Big smile
Now that would be a laugh, Ian and I in separate rooms in the same venue. Two ASS systems, one carefully kept as vintage and true to the original, the other one using the latest drivers available. All of us anoraks would spend the weekend in endless debates over the pros and cons of each approach and the different combinations we could come up with. I think we would enjoy ourselves though and it would be good business for the 7.5 ton truck hire companies.  

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Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies


Posted By: jbl_man
Date Posted: 26 September 2013 at 9:35pm
"There a clicky bunch and I get the impression its all about the pound....."

Yup,i think we would have to end up paying them to let us use it there.

But yes.your second idea is much more like it.Thumbs Up


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Be seeing you.


Posted By: oldskool
Date Posted: 02 October 2013 at 10:08pm
Just realised have a few more pics of the MX800s as we were rearranging the warehouses a couple of months ago.
.
 
 
 
 


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Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies


Posted By: oldskool
Date Posted: 03 October 2013 at 7:18pm
OK we had three pallets of attitude arrive from Sweden and I went to have a look at them today.
 
 
Considering they were the property of a big PA company in Sweden and did twenty years work before being mothballed the cabinets are still completely solid and in remarkably good condition.
 
 
The only real damage, one of the plastic handles is broken so you can see the absorbent wadding inside.
 
Looking into a 212 mid horn from the front of the cab, a lot of angles going on there.
 
 
More angles but this time a view of the speaker chamber. Hadn't realised before quite how small a chamber the drivers sit in. This is a 212 but the 215 bass cab will also have a relatively small chamber. The partition between the drivers makes the rear of this cab two 1 x 12 boxes firing into a shared horn.
 
 
 
 
 
Picked up six of these from a forum member, all new and unused to go with the six JBL 2345 horns for the top end.
 
 
 
More to come in the next few weeks.


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Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies


Posted By: PISSHEAD
Date Posted: 03 October 2013 at 7:29pm
lovely pics oldschool proper speaker porn!!

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The 'drunken master' strikes again.


Posted By: PISSHEAD
Date Posted: 04 October 2013 at 12:41am
Is that MEGA horn 33inches long?

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The 'drunken master' strikes again.


Posted By: simonh
Date Posted: 04 October 2013 at 9:08am
You've got some lovely kit there Oldskool Clap


Posted By: oldskool
Date Posted: 04 October 2013 at 1:11pm
Thanks Simon.
It's taking a while but hope to have it all up and running maybe this time next year, then only need to figure out what to do with it all.
 
 


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Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies


Posted By: oldskool
Date Posted: 04 October 2013 at 1:12pm
Originally posted by PISSHEAD PISSHEAD wrote:

Is that MEGA horn 33inches long?
The Mega horns are about the same size as the JBL 2345, about 560mm wide, will be using six of each on the full rig. The two inch comps will all be on JBL 2350s which are 803mm wide, couldn't find the ASS 803 anywhere so plumped for tracking down the JBLs instead.

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Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies


Posted By: TONY.A.S.S.
Date Posted: 04 October 2013 at 2:13pm
Regarding 803's, unfortunately, for the uk second hand market anyway, most of these horns, when in production made there way to France, Germany, (the biggest taker) and Sweden. There will still be some floating around the UK, but hard to track because there are still many people in PA companies that don't come on here or know about it . I guess we could steal one of Ian's and make a mould.

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http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3" rel="nofollow - http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3


Posted By: oldskool
Date Posted: 04 October 2013 at 2:25pm
I don't mind taking Ian down the pub in return for the loan of a horn. Would a 2350 be any good instead to take a mould from? I have a few of those floating around but Ian insists the 803 is a better sounding horn.  I know nothing about fibre glass fabrication or useful production quantities but need to find eight of these big radial horns before too long. 

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Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies


Posted By: TONY.A.S.S.
Date Posted: 04 October 2013 at 2:45pm
The JBL horn has a negative throat shape that connects to the rectangular Bell housing Adaptor.  This horn could only be done in two halves and then joined together. The original JBL's are sand cast, so no production problems. The 803 is a graduated curve that terminates at 2" so can be pulled straight off the mould. Would you believe, I threw this mould away a few years ago when I got out of the last Factory. 

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http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3" rel="nofollow - http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3


Posted By: jbl_man
Date Posted: 04 October 2013 at 2:56pm
Probually sounds better because its glass fibre Lee,its pretty much the same profile and shape as a 2350,but hasn't got that metallic "clank" when you tap it,unlike the 2350...only problem with Tony's 803's here is the front screw holes,the fibre glass is a bit cracked around the mounting screws,so had to use a washer under each screw to spread the load...some previous plonker had used countersink wood screws,done them up to tight,and split the holes.

The cabs you imported look nice,probually in a better state than Frog's cabs,mine were in a shocking cosmetic condition when i first got them....the only stuctural problems i had,the back panels had been on and off so many times,the battens were falling off inside!..oh that and loads of old Caister flyers and stickers stuck all over the back panels.


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Be seeing you.


Posted By: oldskool
Date Posted: 04 October 2013 at 3:03pm

Thing is Tony, nobody really buys large format radial horns any more apart from lunatics like me and you were retiring anyway so it was certainly the right decision to get rid of them at the time. I can get hold of 2350s easily enough but not the throat adaptors so I can bolt anything to them! Am certainly up for getting a mould made and looking at the commercial aspects of getting it done too.  



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Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies


Posted By: oldskool
Date Posted: 04 October 2013 at 3:16pm
Originally posted by jbl_man jbl_man wrote:

The cabs you imported look nice,probually in a better state than Frog's cabs,mine were in a shocking cosmetic condition when i first got them....the only stuctural problems i had,the back panels had been on and off so many times,the battens were falling off inside!..oh that and loads of old Caister flyers and stickers stuck all over the back panels.
Ian. I was truly astonished when I went to look at them. Yes they need some work but really are excellent for thirty years of age. I know Tony might hate me for this but I picked up a couple of ebay bits in Norwich yesterday from some young guys (late teens, early 20s) who all have rigs of their own and they were in awe of ASS gear and the sheer build quality of ASS boxes. Its good to know that Tony's reputation is as solid with these young men as it was with us when we were that age and gazing longingly at Frog's stacks. These guys have Turbo/PKN rigs of their own so they know their stuff too. Smile

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Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies


Posted By: TONY.A.S.S.
Date Posted: 04 October 2013 at 3:23pm
Yes the mould like my original 570 horn moulds hung around for years. I didn't sell any after I started making CD horns. Everything gets stored until you have to make a move, and then you have a big clear out. It's no good getting sentimental about these things. The 803 was done mid seventies and was done at the request of Tasco. At the time they were getting 3 2350's plus drivers into a plywood case and it was heavy. They figured that if they were fibreglass and lighter, they would get 4 in a case, which was needed to make the wiring simpler. That was the very reason I did the horn close to the 2350 size. The horn and lenses were products a few years before the Concert system was conceived.

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http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3" rel="nofollow - http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3


Posted By: oldskool
Date Posted: 04 October 2013 at 3:35pm
Three or four 2350s in a case with the drivers? To hell with trying to lift those.

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Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies


Posted By: mini-mad
Date Posted: 04 October 2013 at 3:44pm
Originally posted by oldskool oldskool wrote:

Three or four 2350s in a case with the drivers? To hell with trying to lift those.
..wen men were men! lol


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If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.


Posted By: jbl_man
Date Posted: 04 October 2013 at 3:50pm
Originally posted by oldskool oldskool wrote:

Three or four 2350s in a case with the drivers? To hell with trying to lift those.


Especially with Four 2440's or Gauss HF4000's on the back....200kgs per cabinet! Ouch.


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Be seeing you.


Posted By: SMP
Date Posted: 05 October 2013 at 12:42am
Originally posted by TONY.A.S.S. TONY.A.S.S. wrote:

The JBL horn has a negative throat shape that connects to the rectangular Bell housing Adaptor.  This horn could only be done in two halves and then joined together. The original JBL's are sand cast, so no production problems. The 803 is a graduated curve that terminates at 2" so can be pulled straight off the mould. Would you believe, I threw this mould away a few years ago when I got out of the last Factory. 


It may still be possible to mould the horn in one process I have made such mould before

they do cost a little more but do actually last longer with virtually no process deformation over time giving long term consistency of process.They do require more processes to make such moulds but I use such moulds all the time for my horn production

I do not remember how the horn looks as it is so long ago since i have seen any but a quick look and a pair of dividrers and a "Mic" will tell if it is possible to do

I have a horn that is "Negative" as you put it pulls like dream and it is really tight.

GRP is one of my specialities give me some data and sketches on PDF if you are interested we can go from there  Big smile


Posted By: TONY.A.S.S.
Date Posted: 05 October 2013 at 1:16am
Unfortunately, you would not be able to pull the JBL horn off the mould the conventional way because it is undercut. Try to take a look at what the horn looks like without the adaptor fixed to it. If there had been a way, I would have done it.

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http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3" rel="nofollow - http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3


Posted By: Muckerbarnes1
Date Posted: 05 October 2013 at 1:47am
I've also done lots of GRP. Horns, boats, cars, roofs etc.
 
Might I suggest we grab Ian and make a neg of his horn and then make a mould of Tony... just for old timers sake :)


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Billy Dawg.


Posted By: SMP
Date Posted: 05 October 2013 at 2:39am
Originally posted by TONY.A.S.S. TONY.A.S.S. wrote:

Unfortunately, you would not be able to pull the JBL horn off the mould the conventional way because it is undercut. Try to take a look at what the horn looks like without the adaptor fixed to it. If there had been a way, I would have done it.


i beg to differ I vaguely remember this horn but google or Grebil is not too helpful with dims so I cannot asses it for sure but 

I CAN PULL A NEGATIVE PROFILE!!! 
You may not be able to do it but I can do some very clever stuff with GRP and Polymers and composites

If I am right and my vague recollections of this device it has a "Pressure Pinch" type of initial wave-guide in the Throat even if that pinch is 3o -25mm  I can mould it.sometimes more it depends on the complete profile

I certainly do not appreciate being told what i can do or achieve based on your skill-set but only my own but hey if you do not wish my assistance You of course do not have to accept or take advantage of my offer "Convolute Moulds" are a speciality of mine


But of course you know my skills far better than I do myself as You know me and my work so well eh?

i am now incensed by this and professionally insulted just because i am relatively new on here does not make any less a Pro-Audio Eng or do not posses the knowledge necessary

As the saying goes

 "The trouble with people who think they know everything, They make us people that do look bad"

I believed this was or is a "Forum" a place for debate the exchange of ideas and knowledge between members of that Forum whilst in attendance to it a each is treated with respect and there knowledge and opinions also

oh well guess not


Posted By: mooreb
Date Posted: 05 October 2013 at 2:55am
Mate just because someone says it can't be done and you know it can be, theres no sense in being "incensed" or "professionally insulted" by a remark, lifes too short! Smile

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FB LS AUDIO SYSTEMS


Posted By: SMP
Date Posted: 05 October 2013 at 3:20am
really??? so if someone makes a statement or expresses a conceited  opinion of your abilities  without having a clue what they actually are as they actually know little or nothing of you or them

they do not investigate your statements or opinions on the issue in question seek to further understand those statements or opinions and how or why you can justify them but just dismiss them when you know nothing of the one that expressed them

you would not be upset??

it is a Forum a place for discussion so discussion is  the object and function of it that is not what occurred in my opinion which deserves some respect

i do not get such attitudes on other Forums such as DIY Audio or Blueroom


Posted By: jbl_man
Date Posted: 05 October 2013 at 8:38am
"i beg to differ I vaguely remember this horn but google or Grebil is not too helpful with dims so I cannot asses it for sure"

Here you go.

http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/specs/pro-comp/radial-horns/page2.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/specs/pro-comp/radial-horns/page2.jpg

http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/specs/pro-comp/radial-horns/page3.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/specs/pro-comp/radial-horns/page3.jpg

http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/catalogs/1978-pro/page19.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/catalogs/1978-pro/page19.jpg

Of course just molding the horn by itself is no good without the throat adaptor,,Tony managed to do it all-on-one with the need for a separate adapter.

The required one being a 2328.
http://lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/catalogs/1978-pro/page18.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/catalogs/1978-pro/page18.jpg


-------------
Be seeing you.


Posted By: SMP
Date Posted: 05 October 2013 at 9:06am
thanks JBL man for this info I will check it out

I still contend that with the advanced techniques I use for moulds i may still be able to negate the need for the adapter but it is so long since I have seen a gerbil Horn or used any since the 80's besides the 2344's I have on some custom monitoring for my now decommissioned Recording Studio  it is difficult to recall the profile but I cannot imagine the profiling would be so drastic so as to preclude it

hopefully it will give me the data i need to see if this at all possible now only from an interest point of view unless there ever proves a good fiscal reason to pursue it and so a need to make such a mouldor if it is I will do it just to be pedantic and prove a point


Posted By: SMP
Date Posted: 05 October 2013 at 9:18am
hmmm the 2" 50mm to square one!!!  would like to have one in the physical to check but certainly blew the cobwebs out with the last link you give in post

i reckon it is a can do at this stage still unlike many I am an expert in many disciplines relating to Audio electronics and electrocoustics  I made the decision long ago to be "A Jack of no trades, just a master of many"
This does mean i can do it all and i mean all in-house this way I do not need to trust or rely on anyone else I have only the one patent to my name which was fun in some ways but not in others but that is a whole different story to wit I say I learned from it at least

I will investigate this coz as i understood it someone is doing something highly commendable with them for which as an old's cool guy myself they have my support and my blessings


Posted By: jbl_man
Date Posted: 05 October 2013 at 9:25am
Here is a photo i found of the 2350 with the 2328 2" adapter mounted on it,if that helps?




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Be seeing you.


Posted By: TONY.A.S.S.
Date Posted: 05 October 2013 at 9:52am
Well I can see this is going to be fun. When you finally realise what the shape consists of, you will see that you cannot pull the horn straight off a one piece mould, which is what I was talking about in the first place. If I wanted to do it I would use a separate piece for the top section, which would meet at the crest of the shape which or course is its narrowest point. The top piece would then be split into two sections and have a third piece, probably wedge shaped that would push the two outside pieces into place. This method is the only way the top part of the mould can be formed. When the horn is ready to be pulled off, the centre piece is taken out which would then be through the centre of the throat. This in turn releases the two side pieces which form the shape of the first part of the throat. Once these are out, it then becomes a straight pull off.

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http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3" rel="nofollow - http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3


Posted By: Muckerbarnes1
Date Posted: 05 October 2013 at 10:10am
Have you been drinking again SMP?
 
Read your statements above back. There was no need to get on your horse.  No one insulted you. It is quite the opposite.
 
You also know nothing of Tony or myself for that matter. No one else is showing off.
 
You will find some very educated help on this Forum. There are some 'proper' clever buggers on here who give much help. Most tend to keep a lower elevation of their abilities and try not to put people down. Some of us are retired, semi retired and have a wealth of knowledge and experience ready to freely share.
 
I recently helped a friend with a mould for a car. You can mould anything, it's just how and time. The only problem is the mould storage. They are huge.


-------------
Billy Dawg.


Posted By: SMP
Date Posted: 05 October 2013 at 10:10am
well Tony You continue with your delusions that you know all there is to know about GRP moulding and I will do what i do
You obviously do not have great deal of knowledge or experience in the field so best leave it to people like me who do and are experts in it and clearly do not see it as impossible i will shortly have one of the said horns winging it's way to me so I can take it to the bench and make an assessment of it but looking at it from the bad photo sent as a link by JBL Man it certainly seems difficult but a can do as it stands but of course i have so far only discussed as a possibility i as a rule gather all the facts and data before i do anything or give a firm opinion of something or indeed somone perhaps there is a lesson to be learned here but for remains to be seen

best regards mate 


Posted By: SMP
Date Posted: 05 October 2013 at 10:15am


I am almost ready to commence with pre-production mould for this one then to make the production moulds for it in a week or two looks farly good in the daylight so thought i would shre


Posted By: SMP
Date Posted: 05 October 2013 at 10:23am
Originally posted by Muckerbarnes1 Muckerbarnes1 wrote:

Have you been drinking again SMP?
 
Read your statements above back. There was no need to get on your horse.  No one insulted you. It is quite the opposite.
 
You also know nothing of Tony or myself for that matter. No one else is showing off.
 
You will find some very educated help on this Forum. There are some 'proper' clever buggers on here who give much help. Most tend to keep a lower elevation of their abilities and try not to put people down. Some of us are retired, semi retired and have a wealth of knowledge and experience ready to freely share.
 
I recently helped a friend with a mould for a car. You can mould anything, it's just how and time. The only problem is the mould storage. They are huge.


i know an awful lot of Tony we have spoken on many occasions i know his work very well

but his limited knowledge on this field speaks volumes

it is entirely possible it can be done in 1 piece but that is something that still remains to be seen let me have the opportunity to do just that and show you i have moulded far more complev things than car panels which are a "Doddle" do it with my eyes closed almost

I really need to go out now or would love to continue this discussion but have to go get a sick bit of electronics to fix  i need it for sunday evening so need to get a move on to get it on the bench and off again working which is never a problem usually


Posted By: Muckerbarnes1
Date Posted: 05 October 2013 at 10:24am
Do you have a rear view pic?
 
I did not state car panel. I stated CAR. It was a 'doddle'.
 
I have to go too. I need to work in my orchard. This retirement is great.


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Billy Dawg.


Posted By: AM55
Date Posted: 05 October 2013 at 10:27am
Why don't you explain how you would do it? Rather than just saying Tony is wrong and you are right an leaving it at that.

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https://diy-disco.co" rel="nofollow - Audio Visual Equipment Hire Service


Posted By: SMP
Date Posted: 05 October 2013 at 10:46am
now there is a good point AM55  trouble is it was never asked ... just conceited assumption I could not do it nor is it possible to do it

but as nobody has save yourself I do not wish to give away such knowledge at this point as I said have a Horn coming to me to see what magic can be done coz apparently the general consensus is that is what will be required instead of techniques used to do stuff like this that I have done before

I have a horn I need to send pics of to someone that itself has a "Negative" profile it accoprding to Tony is an impossible pull by his set of criteria but i have sucessfully pulled around 30 of them to date still have the moulds in storage should the recipient of said pics like them he will purchase some and then so may others who knows all they need do is choose a colour and finish texture and i will make to order

and yes retirement is great but boring but i will not be here for too much longer as I have a Beach Club to go and open and a villa to build next year i will be in the Sunshine and frankly cannot wait till it is time to leave my Biz partne is out there now sorting out the lazy locals that are doing the build i will of course be taking a couple of 40ft containers with me as i need a big rig out there for the beach parties and live concerts as I have access to so many international acts who will be more than happy to come play & perform now that is my idea of retiring sod UK had my fill of it now


Posted By: SMP
Date Posted: 05 October 2013 at 10:46am
gone out bye catch ya later


Posted By: Jimmer
Date Posted: 05 October 2013 at 11:02am
What a charming person!!


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Light travels faster than sound....That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak!


Posted By: colint
Date Posted: 05 October 2013 at 11:06am
Originally posted by Jimmer Jimmer wrote:

What a charming person!!

And modest too!


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Never criticise another man until you've walked a mile in his shoes. Once you have, call him what you like, you're a mile away and you've got his shoes!


Posted By: SMP
Date Posted: 05 October 2013 at 11:19am
Originally posted by Muckerbarnes1 Muckerbarnes1 wrote:

Do you have a rear view pic?
 
I did not state car panel. I stated CAR. It was a 'doddle'.
 
I have to go too. I need to work in my orchard. This retirement is great.


damn still here  bloody keyholders make a time then ignore it!!

er why do you wish to see the rear view? can do if you wish but that part need more work for the driver mounting it is just a Glass sheet datum point at present for the time alignment not much too see till maybe Monday or Tuesday when i should have the "Former" completed

I really should have included the Clay Plugs in photos but not much of a photo taker or keeper for that matter but for the next one i shall do the whole process from scratch and make a thread of it it will be a 2 x 10 or 2 x 12 hornloaded LF this one already has a 2 x 8 ducted reflex enclosure in same footprint and in all variants inc the weatherproof one

If you are interested the MID/HF horn has a hybrid type of horn i am experimenting with at present will need to do all the measuring soon MLS or something like but also need to look into the CE testing as I know virtually nothing about it at all as one variant is a weatherproof type of enclosure probably with a 70Volt option and integral fly-mount they will be available in BS & RAL colours i have a few orders for some so need to push it along so the install company can try some out

when i sod off overseas my friend will run the day to day here i can do all i need to do from there gives him a new lucrative job hopefully and me profit and more income to develop the 6 acres over there plus i need more land and yet more land!!! as I intend to bui;ld a villa in a remote part with beachfront stay away from the punters and tourists perfect peaceful isolation no people YAY!!!!

bloody keyholding firms are a joke need access to my kit today not when they deem it time


Posted By: TONY.A.S.S.
Date Posted: 05 October 2013 at 11:26am
Well I think in the cause of great entertainment, we should carry on. Every now and then this type of thing crops up which keeps us all amused and this is definitely one of those times.
So my friend, as you seem to be like a dog with a bone, I'll give you this to chew on, If you had a 2350 horn and laid up in side to produced a pattern you would not even be able to get the pattern out of the horn without an angle grinder and a chain saw. But having made the pattern of the desired shape in the conventional way, you would still not be unable to pull  it out, unless you made the mould as I suggested with the removable cores.
The only other way objects can be taken out of moulds that have undercuts in them is to use latex and then peel it off, but then you need a rigid two part mould to support the latex. Not Rocket science and all been done before.
I am really looking forward to seeing how you will pull a horn off of a one piece mould that is jammed on because of it's shape.

spelling check.


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http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3" rel="nofollow - http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3


Posted By: oldskool
Date Posted: 05 October 2013 at 11:48am
What just happened? I only started this thread to share with other mad guys the fun of refurbishing an ASS system with the original manufacturer and using new driver technology to see what we end up with.ConfusedEmbarrassedLOLWinkConfused

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Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies


Posted By: jbl_man
Date Posted: 05 October 2013 at 11:51am
Originally posted by TONY.A.S.S. TONY.A.S.S. wrote:

Well I think in the course of great entertainment, we should carry on. Every now and then this type of thing crops up which keeps us all amused and this is definitely one of those times.

I am really looking forward to seeing how you will pull a horn off of a one piece mould that is jammed on because of it's shape.





-------------
Be seeing you.


Posted By: SMP
Date Posted: 05 October 2013 at 11:53am
Hi tony i am still here waiting on a keyholder to confirm a visit well you still do not know how it is done from your last post

i am not trying to be deliberately belligerent whatsoever but you keep on telling me how it is not possible I find that offensive and rude to be frank  I just do not take well to people assuming so much
as to my skill and abilities do you never question these sort of things?

And as for "Rocket Science " one of the simplest things there is a child could do "Rocket science" requires little technical know how whatsoever it is so easy to achieve

as for the "Jammed on because of it's shape" really you sure about that statement? coz i for one am not so sure it is so at all well when the horn arrives to me here i will as I said asses it something you should consider is this are there others who know things I do not?

I for one know ZIP about a whole lot of things so I ask first if In do not 100% know the issue or subject at hand something you continue not to do.....Why is that?

I have often taken great delight in taking Money from others who are foolish enough to gamble on an outcome I do not gamble whatsoever nothing at all never placed a bet in my life  but i do bet or gamble on a certainty but then that's hardly gambling is it I sometimes return their Money sometimes not it depends on their attitude i n the first place but sometime it is Lunch or a meal whilst out I never return those

somebody asked earlier had i been "Drinking" I do not Drink watch TV or do many things considered the "Norm" I live alone and sometimes do not see or converse with another human being for weeks i may be weird but not stupid

it is some time since i saw or spoke to you it has usually been quite a pleasant exchange

I do hope you are keeping well I am getting too old for rigs and Rock n Roll i retired around 95/96 do the odd stuff here n there if it is interesting but mostly not a lot I tried living by the coast for a few years that was fun but can be not so nice in winter As I recall You are by the Sea or were are you still?

well i really need to chase these keyholder people  wasting my time

so best regards to you i must go sort them out or my kit i need will not be ready for tomorrow evening


Posted By: TONY.A.S.S.
Date Posted: 05 October 2013 at 11:56am
Thanks for the Tommy Cooper stuff. Mould, Horn, Horn Mould.

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http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3" rel="nofollow - http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3


Posted By: Jimmer
Date Posted: 05 October 2013 at 12:01pm


-------------
Light travels faster than sound....That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak!


Posted By: jbl_man
Date Posted: 05 October 2013 at 12:04pm
LOL

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Be seeing you.


Posted By: TONY.A.S.S.
Date Posted: 05 October 2013 at 12:06pm
SMP, I do know how to make a mould to facilitate getting a horn from a mould that has a shape that turns back on its self. What I am maintaining is that you can't pull a horn off of a one piece mould that has a shape like the 2350 horn. If I went back to days as a tool maker, I would be making a mould with sliding cores to facilitate getting the product off of the mould. It wouldn't be just an open and shut mould.

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http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3" rel="nofollow - http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3


Posted By: SMP
Date Posted: 05 October 2013 at 12:08pm
Originally posted by oldskool oldskool wrote:

What just happened? I only started this thread to share with other mad guys the fun of refurbishing an ASS system with the original manufacturer and using new driver technology to see what we end up with.ConfusedEmbarrassedLOLWinkConfused


well i thought it was good what you were doing that's why i read the thread in the first place more power to you for it

in reading i got the impression there was an issue with the horns so offered to assist with my blessing only to be told what I am capable of doing which I did not like

so sod the horns i really could care less but thought you did. It is Human to help another in my book so tried to do so

if it is needed I will do all in my power to assist you but should you decline no worries i will lose no sleep it is not my project but yours

I am a C&*T ignorant, Rude apparently immodest some have said but said by those who do not have clue who I am or what i do  Scary!!! thought we were here to help and assist each other impart skills and knowledge between us not stand in Judgement 

But if that is not the case "Forum" is the wrong term for this site I am getting pretty bored of this by now the Horn will arrive at some future point in time just someone being HELPFUL to one in need

The world should work like this but we know it does not maybe it is up to some of us to change that eh???


Posted By: CritikalMass
Date Posted: 05 October 2013 at 12:13pm
Got to love a good keyboard warrior I swear if half the threads here actually stayed on topic .....


Posted By: SMP
Date Posted: 05 October 2013 at 12:17pm
BTW if possible to do it would be a 1 piece mould ....i will leave Tony to ponder and figure out how this kind of moulding is done or ask somebody else who knows as there are many of us


Posted By: Jimmer
Date Posted: 05 October 2013 at 12:28pm
Originally posted by SMP SMP wrote:



in reading i got the impression there was an issue with the horns so offered to assist with my blessing only to be told what I am capable of doing which I did not like



Forgive Tony for his lack of knowledge. I think the rest of us saw your user name and knew immediately that you were an expert in horn moulding & casting.


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Light travels faster than sound....That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak!


Posted By: SMP
Date Posted: 05 October 2013 at 12:31pm


Here you go orchard guy a rear view as I said it is only a flat datum from laying up on a sheet of  19mm glass keeps it nice and true difficult to see much as the anti-dust coat has been applied prior to waxing to keep it dust free for next process apologies for using your thread but sure he will get to see it here...alright


Posted By: mini-mad
Date Posted: 05 October 2013 at 1:08pm
ok i can think of one way to get a one piece mould. and it wouldnt be pulled.... and its not a nice way to do it either!

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If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.


Posted By: Muckerbarnes1
Date Posted: 05 October 2013 at 1:09pm
I see no pic warrior guy.

-------------
Billy Dawg.


Posted By: SMP
Date Posted: 06 October 2013 at 2:23am
Originally posted by Muckerbarnes1 Muckerbarnes1 wrote:

I see no pic warrior guy.


there must be something I am doing wrong here I tried to load a picture here and did then when I tried to load it somewhere else iy said error you have already uploaded the picture seems my foolish
act of deleting it from what I presumed was a temp cache is some sort of storage for my forum files

perhaps someone more knowledgeable on the forum about the uploading of pics can tell me how it works coz I seem to be messing it up I will try again


ah seems it is a storage for your files on here is there a capacity limit?

but there you are...probably very nice guy with a Orchard the rear view with Datum plate

This is not the finished article this side of Datum but will be soon to Pattern well can take several "Processes" called such as fundamentally each is by nature kinda permanent each time you perform one such as adding structures or new integral parts by Polyesters of all kinds I do self mix different polyester materials for different tasks  special fillers that do not work as standard fillers do some can be polished to a shine if needed gret for detail casting or tracing




Posted By: Muckerbarnes1
Date Posted: 07 October 2013 at 1:29pm
Uploading pictures is easy Charles. I'm sure you'll get the hang of it. Yes there is s capacity limit, otherwise server space could be an issue.
 
What else are you going to do 'this side of the datum' ? Will the drivers be physically aligned?
 
On many of your posts I have to read and re-read. This is a forum, not an English exam so who cares. However, grammar and punctuation problems will make many people miss understand what I think you actually mean Mr Warrior man.
 
Regards,
 
Orchard Man. Beer
 
 


-------------
Billy Dawg.


Posted By: SMP
Date Posted: 07 October 2013 at 2:41pm
Hi "Orchard Guy"WinkBig smile  how are you? What kind of Orchard ? or is that just Apples and not other fruit no idea so need to ask

yep typing is awful and brain works so fast I have "Mechanical Dyslexia" not sure proper tern they did tell me but I was at School then so long ago

OOPS!! see no Punctuation or good Grammar, I will try to slow my head down somewhat but I can get into a sweat just thinking on occasion

And to answer your question. Mounting "Bosses", this side of, it. And yes, I will be using, some form of, impulse or Multiple Length Sequence Analysis, to time align the devices, for active and Passive versions.  Which is often overlooked, presuming, they remain the same, in both cases. Which of course, they do not, and cannot, as the networks, work so differently, as well as, the amp load interface, do also

So how was that? Did it read any better??? LOL  I do try. It just comes, in waves. My fingers cannot really keep up.

Not really enjoying Retirement Guy  Handshake


Posted By: SMP
Date Posted: 07 October 2013 at 2:49pm
Just love Billy the Dawg I had one of those a long time ago but he was "Maximillian" not called "Billy" he used to smoke weed!!!
We used to ask him, if he wanted spliff. He would rush over and, start sniffing. So funny but, oh so, so, clever. All the local kids, loved him. He would always, be very protective, of any child, not just mine.


Posted By: oldskool
Date Posted: 07 October 2013 at 4:35pm
In an attempt to get this thread back on track, I found two of these at the weekend. A pair of ASS HF6040 constant directivity horns. Quite large, they are 624mm wide and in original ASS boxes. Not quite sure how or why we ended up with these. They dont really belong with the concert system other than as a stop gap so may be offered back to the market again unless anybody has a better idea. 
 


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Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies


Posted By: burningbush
Date Posted: 07 October 2013 at 4:37pm
Originally posted by oldskool oldskool wrote:

In an attempt to get this thread back on track



LOLLOLLOL
What are the Gerbils next to them cd horns?


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music is the message


Posted By: jbl_man
Date Posted: 07 October 2013 at 4:38pm
Yup,that's more a 1990's product you have there Lee.


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Be seeing you.


Posted By: Muckerbarnes1
Date Posted: 07 October 2013 at 4:53pm
They look SRX.


-------------
Billy Dawg.


Posted By: oldskool
Date Posted: 07 October 2013 at 4:58pm
Gavin/Mucker, trust you to spot those. The gerbils are another project that is ongoing. 4 x JBL 4755A and 4 x JBL 4745A with everything original and only one comp diaphragm blown although somebody has made a silly attempt to put some useless wheels on the back. Sorry for the boring picture, its the only one I have. I was saving this little lot for after we have the concert system finished. The ASS is known around here as Rig 1, these gerbils are rig 2, the IK/Logic triple 12s/JBL system on the ported cabs forum is rig 3. Rig 4 comprises 4 IK/Logic versions of the JBL 4750A and Rig 5 should be Tannoy but only have 4 x T40 subs, trying to find some matching mid tops is turning out to be far harder than it should be.
   


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Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies


Posted By: simonh
Date Posted: 07 October 2013 at 6:31pm
That's just awesome... Blimey Oldskool, I'm serious Jealous of all your rigs.... LOL  


Posted By: mini-mad
Date Posted: 07 October 2013 at 6:35pm
rigs 1,2,3,4 and 5???


i hate you.


lol


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If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.


Posted By: oldskool
Date Posted: 07 October 2013 at 7:08pm
Well I am only a rank amateur. I had seven years as a born again bachelor so managed to acquire all these goodies over the last three years or so. It was only supposed to be two ASS Concert Stacks but I sort of got carried away. All the rigs will be brought to A1 condition and used but I retired from all this 25 years ago so have still got much to learn from the pros and the weekend warriors on here. Oh and met a lovely lady in January who is very supportive but does wonder what exactly all these boxes are forLOL

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Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies


Posted By: Muckerbarnes1
Date Posted: 07 October 2013 at 8:58pm
That happened to me too Lee. Muds has cost me a fortune Smile.

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Billy Dawg.


Posted By: Edd Jordan
Date Posted: 24 April 2014 at 12:40pm
So how do you get the horn out of the mold in one piece SMP Im on tenterhooks do tell? 

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I do a sideline in ply wood wheels.



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