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15" Scoop!

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Category: Plans
Forum Name: Scoops
Forum Description: One scoop or two ;-)
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7830
Printed Date: 20 March 2019 at 9:38pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: 15" Scoop!
Posted By: SmokeyJoe
Subject: 15" Scoop!
Date Posted: 18 December 2006 at 10:54am
I'm about to start building my main rig. It will consist of 2x B&C Design 15" Subs (PD Loaded) and 2x Mid/top trap cabs (12" PD + 1" P.Audio Loaded). Powered by a T.Amp 2400, Hill DX1500 and Rauch DVD-250S.

I will then have 2x Beta15's on my hands. Sweet!! lol sh*t drivers

I think i'll build a pair of 15" Scoops and chuck em' in, intime for a new years blat!

I've seen the Fane design and the Eminence design and there pretty similar. When i get some cash i'll probably re-load the scoops with a pair of Fane 15XB's so shall i got for the Fane design?

Thanks, Joe.



Replies:
Posted By: specialjustin
Date Posted: 18 December 2006 at 2:16pm
Yea, that sounds like the best and most simple plan. One thing i would do to the Fane (or any design that doesn't have them) box is, make sure you add a good amount of bracing, maybe copy the sort of bracing pattern in the super scooper.


Posted By: SmokeyJoe
Date Posted: 18 December 2006 at 2:54pm
Yeah, that makes sense i will do that .

How do you think they'l sound with just the eminence driver i've got on loaded in em'? I'm looking for chest thumping/crushing bass for UK Garage and Grime, with a bit of Dnb & MC'ing later on...


Posted By: Tom Umney
Date Posted: 18 December 2006 at 4:18pm
Go for Staipers Microscooper 15 instead.
 
Eminence scoops sound sh*t. And Fane scoops don't sound that good either.
 
 


Posted By: SmokeyJoe
Date Posted: 18 December 2006 at 5:02pm
Microscoops loaded with Beta15's? Surley the Eminence or Fane design will be better with my driver?

Anyone else have any thoughts? Microscoop vs. Fane/Eminence scoop?

Thanks, Joe.


Posted By: Tom Umney
Date Posted: 18 December 2006 at 5:50pm
Originally posted by SmokeyJoe SmokeyJoe wrote:

Microscoops loaded with Beta15's? Surley the Eminence or Fane design will be better with my driver?

Anyone else have any thoughts? Microscoop vs. Fane/Eminence scoop?

Thanks, Joe.
 
It's worth it in the long run making the microscooper 15 when you upgrade to better drivers.
 
 Eminence Beta 15's are sh*te. Would be better you building a large reflex box for them, as thats all they sound okish in. And when you get the money , buy the PD156 not the Fanes and make the Micro Scooper 15.
 
PD156 are cheaper than Fane 15XB and better too.
 
But if you must make scoops now, make the microscooper 15 as it has the best sound.
Don't expect them beta 15's to sound ok in any scoop though, cos they won't.But they will get you by with boomyness  and volume until you can afford better.
 
And I thought you had no transport for scoops?
 
 
Heres what I thought of the Fane design 15 inch scoops.
My m8 had 4 of them years ago and blew the drivers in them over half a dozen times when he cranked them. He went through 600w Fane 18B-600, Celestion Frontline, and Eminence Omega Pro 15's in his.Which he all blew by cranking it too hard and he couldn't achieve the bass he desired.
 
Then he got 2 custom made ASS 18 inch scoop copies made which beat the 4 15 inch scoops he had.And now hes very happy with the 2 ASS 18 inch scoops. As he can crank those and they are more than enough for his bass liking.
 
As for Eminence scoops. The 15 inch version was the first scoop I built a few years ago. And I was truelly disapointed with the 2 I made.So disapointed I sold them a month later for peanuts.
And my other m8 had the 18 inch version of the Eminence scoop and wanted to get rid of it for a better scoop design. Obviouslly he hated the design too.
 
I never heard JBL design scoops but I hear they sound smooth.
 
And although I've never heard the Micro Scooper 15. Two people who have built it recommended it. As they say it goes as deep as good single 18 inch reflex and has the kick of a normal 15 inch scoop.
So if they really mean that. Thats a wicked design.
 
And as the driver Eminence Beta 15. It's a piece of sh*t. I had 2 of them when I was 16 in AC Euro AC115 cabs. And they gave boomy sound so I thought it was the enclosure.
So me and my m8 designed a twin 15 inch reflex box and tried it out in his car. The bass was slightly better and deeper but nothing quality, but unfortunally the xmax is rather limited so when my m8 went overboard and cranked the bass he broke the woofers.
They certainlly went loud, but thats all thats good about the Eminence Beta 15,lol.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 18 December 2006 at 6:02pm
Originally posted by SmokeyJoe SmokeyJoe wrote:

Microscoops loaded with Beta15's? Surley the Eminence or Fane design will be better with my driver?

Anyone else have any thoughts? Microscoop vs. Fane/Eminence scoop?

Thanks, Joe.


Don't waste your time with 15" Scoops mate.

18" scoops will be more efficient, move more air, drop lower with less power.

If your strapped for cash, build some scoopers and get some used FANE 18XBs.

Look at the voice coil length, Xmax, Qts, Sd and Fs of the Beta 15, and compare it with a FANE 18XB, the minimum driver for decent bass in a scoop.

Even an old  400W FANE 18 Colossus would be a start.

At least with scoopers, you can upgrade to 1850's/PD186 later.

EDIT:If you're lucky you can find ASS plans, and then you'll be buzzing, as we used to say up north.


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"Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy".


Posted By: Tom Umney
Date Posted: 18 December 2006 at 6:12pm
Yeah true, all the 18 inch scoops I've heard so far beat 15 inch scoops.
 
Build the super scooper 18 or get Shortman to make you some of the 18 inch Shortman scoops are those sound truelly wicked. Iration Steppas uses those and they beat almost any other soundsystem with scoops.
Except maybe if someone had 8 ASS scoops.
 
Start off with the Celestion FTR4080F in the scoops if your short on cash.As they are only 99 new and are decent specs.
 
Then upgrade to PD186 or Void V18-1000 I say.
 
And if you want something to do with the crappy beta 15's. WINISD them and build a huge dual 15 inch reflex box for them to put them to use for the time being.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


Posted By: SmokeyJoe
Date Posted: 18 December 2006 at 8:05pm
@Toxic - I don't have transportation for the Scoops!

I've just finished designing a sound system that suits my music style, SPL's required, transportation space and most importantly !

lolz ToXiC i'm 16 and have a pair of AC Euro 115 cabs aswell! SNAP! I'm now left with these cabs and all there going to do is sit around looking ugly until i find a better use for them! And with new years eve coming up i thought i'd knock up a pair of Scoops just for my pleasure (always been facinated by the "Scoop" design) and chuck whatever drivers i can in em!

I WILL NOT BE ABLE TO TRANSPORT THESE CABS AND THEY WILL BE MADE OF MDF! TBH they will probably only get a little usage but there only for fun so it dosen't matter!

I wanted Scoops for my main system but logistically it was impossible so i'm going for reflexes. These Scoops are for loud house parties and for my own amusement until i get a van. Cough, just to clear that up

So then i may go for the MicroScoops. Depends if i can have them built in time. Do you rekon i'll get enough KICK outa a pair stacked together with 1500w through em?

Thanks, Joe.


Posted By: SmokeyJoe
Date Posted: 18 December 2006 at 8:28pm
Funny thing is i never really knew what the Reggae music that you lot seem to listen to is! Whenever i think of Reggae i think of Bob Marley! Until now anyways. I just punched "Iration Steppas" into Acquisition [limewire] and downloaded "No War Dub" and some other track. All i can say is wow! I cant imagine how that must sound through 12 18" Scoops! Its almost unreal how much Bass there is there! Very hard hitting aggressive Bass - I LOVE IT - this could be a bad thing...

My http://www.alteclansing.com/product_details_intl_update.asp?pID=MX5021WHT&lid=english - computer speakers are great at hitting these notes! You wouldent believe it! I've corner loaded the Sub and it vibrates my desk! HeHeHe this is great!

- Happy, Joe.


Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 19 December 2006 at 4:01am
Smokey Joe, from you've come across Iration Steppas, seems like you've been introduced to Roots Reggae music.
 
If you like "No War Dub" try & check out "Dubz From De Higher Regionz"
 
 
Very heavy indeed. I use this CD to demonstrate to people, the depth of sub bass.
I always use a track called "Whey dem a go do when da right time come"
Deep bass & expressive drum track.
Toxic will back me up on that, as I know he has it on Vinyl. 
 
You are 100% correct, 12 scoops does sound incredible, & the bass is played very deep. I don't know why you think it's a bad thing, the only bad thing about it maybe if you get into heavy bass too deep, the neighbours & your parents will more than likely hate it.
 
Anyway Smokey, back to your decision on 15'' scoops, what I did is, I went & saw a guys 15'' scoops, then he showed me the same size box but the hole was cut for an 18''.
 
He played the both of them, It sounded deeper than the 15'' so that's what I went with.
Some builders build them about 2-foot wide to play lower, & some build them 20'' wide for 18''s & narrower @ 17'' wide for 15''s
 
They can all fit in a 5-door car, normally singularly.
 
Good luck mate.
  


Posted By: SmokeyJoe
Date Posted: 19 December 2006 at 9:51am
I just thought it might be a bad thing because now all i want is 12 18" 1850 loaded scoops and everyone knows i can't afford that!

Hehehe thanks for that info Tekasis, i'm going to download a couple more of those tracks, and destroy (probably) my computer speakers sub! Just out of interest, what frequency are those deep bass notes in the Iration Steppas music? Surley its about 40Hz? 45? 30!?

I think im going to build a pair of WELL BRACED fane design Scoops. I would build the MicroScooper but i prefer the oldskool look the original scoops have. And with http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=3405&TabID=1&QV=Y&C=EBook&U=Ecat - these round grilles on them they will look really aggressive! Perfect!

Thanks, SmokeyJoe.


Posted By: Tom Umney
Date Posted: 19 December 2006 at 12:48pm
Originally posted by SmokeyJoe SmokeyJoe wrote:

I just thought it might be a bad thing because now all i want is 12 18" 1850 loaded scoops and everyone knows i can't afford that!

Hehehe thanks for that info Tekasis, i'm going to download a couple more of those tracks, and destroy (probably) my computer speakers sub! Just out of interest, what frequency are those deep bass notes in the Iration Steppas music? Surley its about 40Hz? 45? 30!?

I think im going to build a pair of WELL BRACED fane design Scoops. I would build the MicroScooper but i prefer the oldskool look the original scoops have. And with http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=3405&TabID=1&QV=Y&C=EBook&U=Ecat - these round grilles on them they will look really aggressive! Perfect!

Thanks, SmokeyJoe.
 
Download,Iration Steppas 'Original Dub Dat' as I love that cd[ also got it on vinyl] more than the 'Dubz from de higher regionz' vinyl I got.
 
Anyway about the scoops. Its not all about look. I swear the Microscooper 15 will sound better going by what my m8s said. But I've never really liked the sound of 15 inch scoops.
18 inch scoops however, especially my m8s 2 18 inch ASS scoops loaded with PD1850 are well fun to listen to very loud plus it vibrates everything in his garage where he tried them out.And the bass beats your chest like a drum.
Basically my m8 has converted his garage and built on a music room onto it.And its moderately soundproofed in there so he can blast it loud night and day and is only whisper quiet outside.
 
I bought an odd 15 inch scoops from Mans1000 off here ages ago[I think a JBL design as the chamber was very shallow] and tested it a few times in my mum's lounge. Was too heavy and akward to get up my stairs even with 3 people lifting it as it was made of mdf.Plus it kept hitting the low ceiling by the stairs and almost fell at my m8.
I loaded it with an odd old Gauss 15 inch I had lying around before I blew it at a house party when I went a little mad with the bass.
 
So if your thinking of making scoops SmokeyJoe: make them out of 18mm birch ply. NOT mdf unless you want to f*ck your back.
And if your planning on storing them in your bedroom, a normal 15 inch scoop won't fit up normal stairs with low ceilings etc.Plus it still will be heavy. So build the microscooper15 unless you have a garage to store bigger scoops in and your parents don't mind you using it.
If you got a garage, make 18 inch super scooper 18's. If you ain't,make micro scooper 15's.
 
P.S: Even if you could afford 12 super scooper 18, PD1850 loaded scoops. You'd need a massive space to store them and a big van or one to hire.
 
Even 2 PD1850 loaded ASS design scoops would be fine as my m8 is well happy with his and sounds much better than the 4 Fane loaded 15 inch scoops he had before.
And you'd need the right amp to power them correctly.
He uses 2 Citronic PPX1600, bridged per scoop.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


Posted By: SmokeyJoe
Date Posted: 20 December 2006 at 10:46pm
I will be storing them in my garage so size isnt a concern. They will be permanently set up in there as well.

Im just gonna build an oldskool Fane rig lol with all the bits and bobs i've got left over from the main project.

Lows is a pair of Fane scoops with Beta15's in (temporary). Mids is this http://www.dancetech.com/aa_dt_new/pa/2X12-angled.cfm - fane design box loaded with Goodmans vintange 12" 60w audium guitar speakers (i think). And tops is a Fane design tweeter box full of piezos.

Should sound criss! It will be used to play UK Garage/2-Step and all of that stuff from vinyl. Really punchy bass kick drums (hope the beta15's dont fall apart).

I'll take pics of the build and finished system (oldskool and nuskool)

What frequency is the chest pounding kick drum that we all know and love? 60~80Hz?

Thanks, Joe.


Posted By: Tom Umney
Date Posted: 21 December 2006 at 7:47am
I swear the Beta 15's will blow if you crank it.They will sound crap anyway.
 
Why not bid on a pair of these: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/B-N-2-EMINENCE-OMEGA-PRO-15-SUBWOOFERS-1600W-RMS_W0QQitemZ290062691355QQihZ019QQcategoryZ18805QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/B-N-2-EMINENCE-OMEGA-PRO-15-SUBWOOFERS-1600W-RMS_W0QQitemZ290062691355QQihZ019QQcategoryZ18805QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
 
You might get lucky and win those cheap. Not my auction though.
 
Or Farmerwardy on here had Eminence Kilomax 18 inchers for 50 each that will work in the super scooper 18 plans. As Mykey said Kilomax work in scoops.
 
What you gonna be powering the lows, mids and highs with?
 
And also, do your parents mind you using their garage,lol.
 
LOL and guitar speakers will sound really sh*t for mids.
 
These are well cheap and would be better for mids, but not perfect: http://www.gbaudio.co.uk/used.htm#GB - http://www.gbaudio.co.uk/used.htm#GB    under Miscellaneous section:
 
2 of brand new Eminence Beta 12 for 22.32 inc vat each.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


Posted By: SmokeyJoe
Date Posted: 21 December 2006 at 8:17am
I really cant spend any on this project. I'm just using whatever i've got.

No it won sound too nice but if its loud thats all that matters! My mum dosn't mind me using the garage. Its got electricity in there and my decks are all set up with a pair of hifi mons atm. The plan is that if i build this little rig i can use my main amp rack to power it (TA2400, HILL DX1500, Rauch DVD-250s and Berry X-Over & EQ) and then in the Summer i can open up the garage door (big car door) and have parties on the field outside!

It will be great and my parents are ok with it! So i get DJ practise infront of a croud of my mates and get to enjoy some loud tunes whilst having a casual smoke or beer!

I will take pics of it all and post them on here when its done.

Thanks, Joe.


Posted By: Tekasis
Date Posted: 21 December 2006 at 8:26am
Originally posted by Tom Umney Tom Umney wrote:

 
Or Farmerwardy on here had Eminence Kilomax 18 inchers for 50 each that will work in the super scooper 18 plans. As Mykey said Kilomax work in scoops.
 
Eminence Kilomax 18'' in scoops ????? I keep hearing that's not such a good idea, & that a Reflex cab is better for them.
 
Originally posted by Tom Umney Tom Umney wrote:

LOL and guitar speakers will sound really sh*t for mids.
 
They won't sound that bad Toxic, especially if you're not playing at very high volume.
If you're just starting out I don't think guitar speakers would be that bad, then again I don't know for sure.
 
Sounds interesting & like fun already Smokey Joe, never give up mate.
 


Posted By: Tom Umney
Date Posted: 21 December 2006 at 9:13am
Originally posted by SmokeyJoe SmokeyJoe wrote:

I really cant spend any on this project. I'm just using whatever i've got.

No it won sound too nice but if its loud thats all that matters! My mum dosn't mind me using the garage. Its got electricity in there and my decks are all set up with a pair of hifi mons atm. The plan is that if i build this little rig i can use my main amp rack to power it (TA2400, HILL DX1500, Rauch DVD-250s and Berry X-Over & EQ) and then in the Summer i can open up the garage door (big car door) and have parties on the field outside!

It will be great and my parents are ok with it! So i get DJ practise infront of a croud of my mates and get to enjoy some loud tunes whilst having a casual smoke or beer!

I will take pics of it all and post them on here when its done.

Thanks, Joe.
 
Ok, but what rating are your Eminence Beta 15's? old 150w rms or 350w rms new version?
 
The TA2400 which is 2x 600w rms into 8 ohms will fry the drivers if they are 150w rms each.
 
If the betas as 150w rms. Then use the Hill amp in mono, one channel for bass, 1 channel for mids, and then the Rauch amp for highs.
 
 


Posted By: SmokeyJoe
Date Posted: 21 December 2006 at 11:30am
Na the Beta15's are the 350w new model. I've given them 750w each before and it sounded better. That was using the Hill amp in bridge mono at 4 ohms.

The guitar speakers really aren't that bad. I would like to stress even more that... THIS SYSTEM IS FOR MY PERSONAL USE, AND NOT FOR WORK etc. So cutting corners left right and centre is excusable as noone else will be using the rig . The guitar speakers i've got are currently in a box my grandad built for me 4 (or so) years ago when i was young. This box is shown in the pics.

http://imageshack.us">

The woofer on the right with the shiny dustcap is a Goodmans Audium 12. Its rated at 60w (what it says on the back) and has a magnet the size of a planet! It weighs a ton! Its way bigger than the magnet on my Beta 15's!!
The woofer on the left is of the unknown variety lol. The magnet is a lot smaller and it says 50w on the back but thats it. The Piezos are CTS and the Piezo horn is a Maplins own brander .

So the two 12"s are going in the Fane "angled 2x12" box" and then im going to build the Fane tweeter box to go on top.

- Joe.


Posted By: Tom Umney
Date Posted: 21 December 2006 at 6:41pm
Originally posted by SmokeyJoe SmokeyJoe wrote:

Na the Beta15's are the 350w new model. I've given them 750w each before and it sounded better. That was using the Hill amp in bridge mono at 4 ohms.

The guitar speakers really aren't that bad. I would like to stress even more that... THIS SYSTEM IS FOR MY PERSONAL USE, AND NOT FOR WORK etc. So cutting corners left right and centre is excusable as noone else will be using the rig . The guitar speakers i've got are currently in a box my grandad built for me 4 (or so) years ago when i was young. This box is shown in the pics.

http://imageshack.us">

The woofer on the right with the shiny dustcap is a Goodmans Audium 12. Its rated at 60w (what it says on the back) and has a magnet the size of a planet! It weighs a ton! Its way bigger than the magnet on my Beta 15's!!
The woofer on the left is of the unknown variety lol. The magnet is a lot smaller and it says 50w on the back but thats it. The Piezos are CTS and the Piezo horn is a Maplins own brander .

So the two 12"s are going in the Fane "angled 2x12" box" and then im going to build the Fane tweeter box to go on top.

- Joe.
 
A poor match for a mid box you will have there. 1 12 inch being 50w with a small magnet and 1 12 inch with a large magnet being 60w.LOL One driver might be louder than the other too. And they probably will sound different.
 
 
You only building the one mid box? Or a pair?
 
Cos if its a pair and you got 4 of the 12 inchers in total. I suggest you use the drivers with the large magnet in a flared mid horn. Eminence and Fane do that design.
And forget about using the ones with the small magnet rated 50w as most likely they will sound sh*t.Unless they are some vintage speaker like Celestion rocket 50, or simular ones.
 
Don't skimp on using mismatched drivers at least. Cos the end result is most likely to be crap distorted sound or crap uneven sound.
 
But hopefully they won't die from the bass. What crossover point you using anyway? 15 inch scoops can go up to 200hz normally before they sound awful. Around 150-160hz is a good crossover point for 15 inch scoops. But the 12 inch drivers might get torn to pieces at that frequency.Depending how much xmech they have. So better at 200hz from scoops to mids.And cross mids over at 4-5khz to piezos. Piezos crossed lower than 4khz sound awfully harsh and ear killing.
 
Your gonna need a low cut filter [or bring all the eq sliders to minimum] below 50hz is where the Fane 15 inch scoops roll off.Below that frequency the cones get unloaded and WILL get damaged.
 
Also since the Beta 15 only has a 2 inch voice coil, don't cain them or they will blow.And the xmech of 11.6mm xmech, 4mm xmax is pretty short too. So I suggest not to cain the bass at all.Or you might find them ripping apart.As a scoop can't be used with any driver like your trying to do,lol.
 
The Beta 15 from all the specs I seen, its a budget bass/mid driver for a very large reflex or sealed box.It's also a mud motor [meaning pathetic motor system and very low BL on it [magnet strength].Which means it will sound boomy and flabby the bass as the magnet has very little control over the cone.
 
So it will meet its maker soon in a scoop.  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


Posted By: SmokeyJoe
Date Posted: 22 December 2006 at 11:40am
Yeah, only one mid box currently. I have got 2 other Goodmans guitar speakers i aquired which also have huge magnets but one of them has a damaged cone. I'm told i could fix it using coffee filter paper and evostick though. Might give it a try!!

Ok scoops are gonna happen, i'll post pics of the build if i can aswell!

Thanks, Joe.


Posted By: Tom Umney
Date Posted: 23 December 2006 at 1:49pm
I can find you the plans of the 12 inch flared horns [an Eminence design] but a decent design for once as not all the Eminence design are good. But you can use 1 Goodmans driver in each.
And certainlly will sound better than a mismatched sealed mid box.
 
 
 
 


Posted By: sirck50
Date Posted: 01 February 2018 at 6:13pm
what was the outcome? You are 27 years old now.........

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