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Showco PA with the Who

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Category: Other Chat
Forum Name: Golden oldies
Forum Description: Post all historic interesting items, stories and photos here (no, not your Nan)
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=79720
Printed Date: 16 July 2020 at 1:39pm
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Topic: Showco PA with the Who
Posted By: Nachural
Subject: Showco PA with the Who
Date Posted: 16 June 2013 at 12:18pm
An interesting insight to large scale 70's PA systems.
http://www.thewho.net/whotabs/gear/pa/pa7576.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.thewho.net/whotabs/gear/pa/pa7576.html
 
and 80's...
 
http://www.thewho.net/whotabs/gear/pa/pa77.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.thewho.net/whotabs/gear/pa/pa77.html


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it's all just cardboard and magnets really



Replies:
Posted By: TONY.A.S.S.
Date Posted: 16 June 2013 at 3:43pm
There's some great links on there also. Well worth a look.

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http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3" rel="nofollow - http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3


Posted By: Spartan Audio
Date Posted: 16 June 2013 at 5:11pm

Loudest Pop Group

The amplification for The Who concert at Charlton Athletic Football Ground, London, England, May 31, 1976, provided by Tasco PAsystem, had a total power of 76,000 watts from eighty 800 W  http://www.crownaudio.com/" rel="nofollow - Crown  DC 300 A amplifiers and twenty 600 W  http://www.phaselinearhistory.com/" rel="nofollow - Phase Linear  200’s. The readings at 50 m (164 ft) from the front of the sound system were 120 decibels. Exposure to such noise levels is known to cause PSH — Permanent Shift of Hearing or partial deafness.



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http://www.spartanaudio.co.uk


Posted By: Robbo
Date Posted: 16 June 2013 at 6:19pm
The Showco system was a bit of a joke in the trade in those days as it had no real bottom end at all, due to the fact that they were using K130 guitar speakers in all of their bass bins hence no real bass---Yes it was loud but one of the worst rigs that I have heard in my life.
The TASCO rig was just the opposite with lots of Gauss loaded 4560s---Plenty of real bass crossed over 5 way I think, so a very clean system but you could actually hear the drums up front in the mix for a change(he only used to tickle them really and was never a loud powerful drummer on stage).


Posted By: TONY.A.S.S.
Date Posted: 16 June 2013 at 8:22pm
It's strange how PA systems have developed, in as much as there must be a ton of people who don't get excited looking at a Line Array as much as they do an old system of the seventies, where everything seemed to be exciting, and there's no proof that in spite of the so called improvements, that people enjoy the music anymore now than they did then, in fact there's probably more bad press about Line Array than there ever was about some of the old systems.

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http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3" rel="nofollow - http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3


Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 16 June 2013 at 8:43pm
What made me think Entec had a lot to do with The Who?
 
I was surprised that ML Exec were a Who Thing, as I was sure Entec, Marquee Audio etc were the boys...
 
 


Posted By: dylan-penguinmedia
Date Posted: 16 June 2013 at 8:56pm
Originally posted by shagnasty shagnasty wrote:


What made me think Entec had a lot to do with The Who?
 
I was surprised that ML Exec were a Who Thing, as I was sure Entec, Marquee Audio etc were the boys...
 
 


Love threads like this :)

Incidentally I used to work for Marquee Audio doing installs. Useless fact!


Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 16 June 2013 at 8:59pm
You Mr TA-500/718, LS-9 & a KT Sq-One graph???
 
Smile


Posted By: James Tengo
Date Posted: 16 June 2013 at 9:12pm
Originally posted by shagnasty shagnasty wrote:

What made me think Entec had a lot to do with The Who?
 
I was surprised that ML Exec were a Who Thing, as I was sure Entec, Marquee Audio etc were the boys...
 
 


Dick Hayes (Mr Entec) was FOH for The Who, where as the pa and equipment the band owned was hired out to others under the ML Exec company name.

Not sure where the Marquee audio lot are linked


Posted By: djeddie
Date Posted: 16 June 2013 at 9:16pm
Originally posted by dylan-penguinmedia dylan-penguinmedia wrote:

Incidentally I used to work for Marquee Audio doing installs. Useless fact!


Hopefully not the install at T** G****h**** in Bristol though... 'cause after Marquee had left I went through it and put all the Martin EM25's in the same phase... and connected the 1210 ground leads to the mixer... and turned the Speakon connectors in one of the bins so it was latched and working... etc etc, ad lib to fade!


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Chas n Dave : it's like Drum and Bass but with beards.             E=mc² ±3dB


Posted By: Nachural
Date Posted: 16 June 2013 at 9:17pm
Originally posted by Robbo Robbo wrote:

The Showco system was a bit of a joke in the trade in those days as it had no real bottom end at all, due to the fact that they were using K130 guitar speakers in all of their bass bins hence no real bass---
 

That thought had occurred to me also.

Presumably they were trying to take advantage of the light cone and higher mid band efficiency of the K130 over the K140 but as John rightly says their LF extension was somewhat limited when compared to the K140.

Seemed a strange choice in that application.



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it's all just cardboard and magnets really


Posted By: Nutcracker
Date Posted: 16 June 2013 at 9:21pm
Thanks to the OP for the thread, just spent a happy 2 hours reading about Pink Floyds live shows from a link on that page.


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is it dark up there?


Posted By: dylan-penguinmedia
Date Posted: 16 June 2013 at 9:31pm
Originally posted by djeddie djeddie wrote:

Originally posted by dylan-penguinmedia dylan-penguinmedia wrote:

Incidentally I used to work for Marquee Audio doing installs. Useless fact!


Hopefully not the install at T** G****h**** in Bristol though... 'cause after Marquee had left I went through it and put all the Martin EM25's in the same phase... and connected the 1210 ground leads to the mixer... and turned the Speakon connectors in one of the bins so it was latched and working... etc etc, ad lib to fade!


Never done a job in Bristol so not me sir!
First fixed the Swindon Walkabout tho - that's about as close to Brizzle as I got!


Posted By: Nachural
Date Posted: 16 June 2013 at 11:20pm
Does anyone remember the Muscle Music PA rig?

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it's all just cardboard and magnets really


Posted By: TONY.A.S.S.
Date Posted: 17 June 2013 at 12:34am
Originally posted by Nachural Nachural wrote:

Does anyone remember the Muscle Music PA rig?

Operated by Mark Hardy and Alan Wick who later sold everything and formed Turbosound Sales. They used to use our horns which we built into Flight Cases. Didn't they start out as the Jam's PA people.


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http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3" rel="nofollow - http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3


Posted By: jazomir
Date Posted: 17 June 2013 at 11:09am
Originally posted by TONY.A.S.S. TONY.A.S.S. wrote:

Originally posted by Nachural Nachural wrote:

Does anyone remember the Muscle Music PA rig?

Operated by Mark Hardy and Alan Wick who later sold everything and formed Turbosound Sales. They used to use our horns which we built into Flight Cases. Didn't they start out as the Jam's PA people.
The worked with a lot of bands in that era - I think Will Norton (Big Will) used to work for them at the time. They had a nice 3 way floor monitor 15in/10in/horn IIRC - one of your builds Tony?


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Regards

Jazomir


Posted By: Nachural
Date Posted: 17 June 2013 at 11:40am
I seem to remember they had a 5 way rig but don't know much about it. Maybe Will can let us know a little more about the setup?

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it's all just cardboard and magnets really


Posted By: jbl_man
Date Posted: 17 June 2013 at 11:49am
Originally posted by Robbo Robbo wrote:

The Showco system was a bit of a joke in the trade in those days as it had no real bottom end at all, due to the fact that they were using K130 guitar speakers in all of their bass bins hence no real bass---Yes it was loud but one of the worst rigs that I have heard in my life.


I never realised that John,but reading the link posted by Chris...quote 

"48 folded-horn bass enclosures with JBL K130 4x15 speakers; each enclosure powered by one 600-watt mono amp."

How very odd,i wonder why they fitted them with K130's? i can only assume to get the high theroretical efficiency,but as you say,no low-end what so ever.....you would have thought,in raiding the JBL stockpiles to load them,they would have fitted at least K140's,or if money was no object (which presumably it wasnt) then K145's. Very strange.


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Be seeing you.


Posted By: Nachural
Date Posted: 17 June 2013 at 12:00pm
Absolutely right, Ian, the K145 would have been the ultimate choice from that range.

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it's all just cardboard and magnets really


Posted By: TONY.A.S.S.
Date Posted: 17 June 2013 at 12:30pm
In spite of Americans appearing to have more money and resources to use in those days compared with us, they had some some strange ideas about sound. The components were fine but the application was strange. I think they inherited there fundamental ideas from the Cinema Industry. which is probably why they stuck with 2 way systems for a long time, I.E. 4560 with an HF Horn on the top.

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http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3" rel="nofollow - http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3


Posted By: Steve_B
Date Posted: 17 June 2013 at 12:44pm
Originally posted by djeddie djeddie wrote:

Originally posted by dylan-penguinmedia dylan-penguinmedia wrote:

Incidentally I used to work for Marquee Audio doing installs. Useless fact!


Hopefully not the install at T** G****h**** in Bristol though... 'cause after Marquee had left I went through it and put all the Martin EM25's in the same phase... and connected the 1210 ground leads to the mixer... and turned the Speakon connectors in one of the bins so it was latched and working... etc etc, ad lib to fade!

Hey!!! I thougth that this was the  golden oldies vintage section. Go start your own thread about new-fangled connectors in the ultra modern still wet behind the ears baby boy section. TongueBig smile


Posted By: burningbush
Date Posted: 17 June 2013 at 1:18pm
LOL We only deal in Cannon, Amphenol and Neuts.


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music is the message


Posted By: Robbo
Date Posted: 17 June 2013 at 3:27pm
Originally posted by TONY.A.S.S. TONY.A.S.S. wrote:

In spite of Americans appearing to have more money and resources to use in those days compared with us, they had some some strange ideas about sound. The components were fine but the application was strange. I think they inherited there fundamental ideas from the Cinema Industry. which is probably why they stuck with 2 way systems for a long time, I.E. 4560 with an HF Horn on the top.


Tony is right there---For years the Yanks were only running two way systems and stubbornly would not change over to split more ways---In the seventies we were touring with a lot of top US acts mainly brought over by Kennedy Street Artistes in Manchester and a lot of the bands sound engineers were amazed to find us running a five way system including mono sub as they were so used to seeing every rig they used being only two way with stereo bass---it took them years to catch up and also to realize that mono sub or low bass was also the way to go.


Posted By: 4D
Date Posted: 17 June 2013 at 6:03pm
Originally posted by jazomir jazomir wrote:

Originally posted by TONY.A.S.S. TONY.A.S.S. wrote:

Originally posted by Nachural Nachural wrote:

Does anyone remember the Muscle Music PA rig?

Operated by Mark Hardy and Alan Wick who later sold everything and formed Turbosound Sales. They used to use our horns which we built into Flight Cases. Didn't they start out as the Jam's PA people.
The worked with a lot of bands in that era - I think Will Norton (Big Will) used to work for them at the time. They had a nice 3 way floor monitor 15in/10in/horn IIRC - one of your builds Tony?

I knew Muscle Music well.  Pa, backline hire & a rehearsal space in the railway arches on Great Suffolk Street & Pocock St. 

Used to do a lot of rehearsals in their space and PA hire from Mark & Alan back in the day. 

It was where I first met the young Peter Brotzman.

; And yes the Jam became their big client.  

After the dissolution

Peter went off to join John & Tony at New North Road. 

Mark ended up running a hotel in the Caribbean 

& yes Alan went on to own it all... 

Last rig I hired was 1976 (farcanal it was that long ago)  when  I was touring with Johhny Thunders & the Heartbreakers stumbling round Europe in a skag induced haze (the band that is not Pete & I)  No sorry rewind last rig was a turbo system 1981 though for some reason Edwin Shirley,  Collie & mad Eric all ring bells.. 

Mark was around briefly last summer I believe the Brotz caught up with him. 

They also used to sponsor my racing motorcycle right through till the early eighties  

Good chaps in their day.. 


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DMZ. "The bass was intense. Girls were literally running up to stand next to the subs"


Posted By: djeddie
Date Posted: 17 June 2013 at 9:20pm
Originally posted by Steve_B Steve_B wrote:

Hey!!! I thougth that this was the  golden oldies vintage section. Go start your own thread about new-fangled connectors in the ultra modern still wet behind the ears baby boy section. TongueBig smile


A thousand apologies Steve. I shall now stand silently in the corner counting my 2 pin Din connectors.Big smile


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Chas n Dave : it's like Drum and Bass but with beards.             E=mc² ±3dB


Posted By: Nachural
Date Posted: 18 June 2013 at 11:11am

It’s good that people still remember these long gone companies who helped form the basis of the UK touring industry.

Other companies included Star Hire before the specialised in staging and Bob Doyle’s Texserve before it became part of SSE. Anyone remember his monster Cerwin Vega bass bins?

Any more suggestions?



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it's all just cardboard and magnets really


Posted By: London Sound1
Date Posted: 18 June 2013 at 1:20pm
I worked a few gigs with Bob, also there was Hollywood PA in Brum which I believe also went into SSE.


Ian


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We know what most of the knobs do

http://www.soundengineer.co.uk


Posted By: 4D
Date Posted: 03 June 2019 at 11:10pm
Originally posted by 4D 4D wrote:

Originally posted by jazomir jazomir wrote:

Originally posted by TONY.A.S.S. TONY.A.S.S. wrote:

Originally posted by Nachural Nachural wrote:

Does anyone remember the Muscle Music PA rig?

Operated by Mark Hardy and Alan Wick who later sold everything and formed Turbosound Sales. They used to use our horns which we built into Flight Cases. Didn't they start out as the Jam's PA people.
The worked with a lot of bands in that era - I think Will Norton (Big Will) used to work for them at the time. They had a nice 3 way floor monitor 15in/10in/horn IIRC - one of your builds Tony?

I knew Muscle Music well.  Pa, backline hire & a rehearsal space in the railway arches on Great Suffolk Street & Pocock St. 

Used to do a lot of rehearsals in their space and PA hire from Mark & Alan back in the day. 

It was where I first met the young Peter Brotzman.

; And yes the Jam became their big client.  

After the dissolution

Peter went off to join John & Tony at New North Road. 

Mark ended up running a hotel in the Caribbean 

& yes Alan went on to own it all... 

Last rig I hired was 1976 (farcanal it was that long ago)  when  I was touring with Johhny Thunders & the Heartbreakers stumbling round Europe in a skag induced haze (the band that is not Pete & I)  No sorry rewind last rig was a turbo system 1981 though for some reason Edwin Shirley,  Collie & mad Eric all ring bells.. 

Mark was around briefly last summer I believe the Brotz caught up with him. 

They also used to sponsor my racing motorcycle right through till the early eighties  

Good chaps in their day.. 

Found this t'other day.  Muscle Music & my P&M kwacker on the island TT80
 




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DMZ. "The bass was intense. Girls were literally running up to stand next to the subs"



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