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Lab Gruben 13000 Vs FFA10k Vs Infinite 8

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Topic: Lab Gruben 13000 Vs FFA10k Vs Infinite 8
Posted By: tcourtneyvincent
Subject: Lab Gruben 13000 Vs FFA10k Vs Infinite 8
Date Posted: 30 November 2013 at 10:44pm
We normally run an infi 8 v1 which seems to spank our 4 pd1850s in Hogs very nicely. For our last gig the Void wasnt back from repair in time so we used an FFA10k, and to be honest it didnt seem to provide what the infi 8 could. The pressure from the hogs hanging off an infi 8 is just insane, but off the FFA it just (pressure wise) sounded weak and clipped well before when i would expect it to for a 1.5k a bin amp.
We have a gig this weekend and the Void is in repair again ha! So im looking for an amp to rent and all the big amps i seem to be able to get my hands on are light weights. Im looking at a Lab 13000, but is this going to be the same story as the FFA? 
Have come across this  http://forum.speakerplans.com/measuredlab-13000-vs-proline-3000_topic60994_page7.html" rel="nofollow - http://forum.speakerplans.com/measuredlab-13000-vs-proline-3000_topic60994_page7.html  which makes me wary of hiring the lab.
If i understand correctly is this thread saying that over 1 second of rms bassline the lab drops down to the same power as the proline? some of the music we play has far longer basslines than 1 second e.g.  https://soundcloud.com/ariesandgolddubs/blazeup" rel="nofollow - https://soundcloud.com/ariesandgolddubs/blazeup , so on this track are they saying that a proline will perform as well as the lab? surely not... i must be missing something....
Sorry for the long post, im just wondering weather or not to hire 2 jbl mpx1200 and 4ohm bridge them to get the pressure im looking for of if the Lab will do the job.
Many thanks :)



Replies:
Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 30 November 2013 at 11:38pm
As i can understand from the first page on that topic the fp13000 was put on a resistor load. That is not the way to test the Labgruppens. They can not do sine wave to a dummy load. They simply can not.
But music is not a sine wave and the speakers are not a pure resistive load but more of a reactive load. So two totally different things.
Since i have never heard the inf8 i can not say weather the fp13000 can be a comparable swap or not.


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Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: Dave FFA
Date Posted: 03 December 2013 at 9:20am
Hey Tom What is the voltage gain of your void amp? kind regards Dave


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 03 December 2013 at 12:24pm
Originally posted by tcourtneyvincent tcourtneyvincent wrote:

We normally run an infi 8 v1 which seems to spank our 4 pd1850s in Hogs very nicely. For our last gig the Void wasnt back from repair in time so we used an FFA10k, and to be honest it didnt seem to provide what the infi 8 could. The pressure from the hogs hanging off an infi 8 is just insane, but off the FFA it just (pressure wise) sounded weak and clipped well before when i would expect it to for a 1.5k a bin amp.
We have a gig this weekend and the Void is in repair again ha! So im looking for an amp to rent and all the big amps i seem to be able to get my hands on are light weights. Im looking at a Lab 13000, but is this going to be the same story as the FFA? 

Patiently waiting for the folks who'll say the Infinite 8 sounded louder due to distortion.

There are one or two threads about here comparing Inf 8 amps @ 4 ohms, with higher rated lightweights and the actual observations. Conclusions typically always end in ridicule, and stating merely listening to an amp is no way to quantify which can power drivers more effectively. Wacko

Having heard Lab Gruppen 14K copies, would recommend you are very careful with the gain when trying out the "real", big labs, they have plenty enough gonads to take out 3x PD1850s per channel if minced with.LOL


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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 03 December 2013 at 12:37pm
Lev, how can that be? We all know labs suck at subs. :-)

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Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 03 December 2013 at 12:55pm
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

Lev, how can that be? We all know labs suck at subs. :-)

Think you'll see from couple of years ago, I said the Lab copies "can be made" to sound better than plenty torroidials (@ 4 ohm stereo), so the originals must be serious.

But then again, takes a decent sound engineer to get the best out of any sub amp.Embarrassed


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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 03 December 2013 at 1:01pm
I hope you get my sarcasm, because many people here do claim than LG amps can not do subs.

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Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 03 December 2013 at 1:03pm
the only time i have ever had a problem getting "sub" from a lab is when trying to drive a turbosound "sub". But then again, thinking about it, turbosound have never made a sub...


but seriously, there is a big difference between the FP+13000 and the PLM14000, not so much the slightly higher rails and higher current capability, but more to do with the 16A inlet on the 13,000 and the 32A inlet on the 14,000. Lab still state that the 14K will run on 16A, however i have seen one amp take out a 16A c type MCB in seconds, and they are fused internally at 30A.

The FFA should be quite capable too, but is optimised really for lower than 4Ω loads, and personally i think it sounds very dry.


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“The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better”


Posted By: burningbush
Date Posted: 03 December 2013 at 1:29pm
"sounds like" an input sensitivity issue from the op causing a difference in perceived spl.

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music is the message


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 03 December 2013 at 2:16pm
Originally posted by burningbush burningbush wrote:

"sounds like" an input sensitivity issue from the op causing a difference in perceived spl.

I've heard Inf8s compared to other lightweights on same load at a "test", and none of those except K10 came close to providing the same sub spl, on same test set across same stack of subs.

LabG FP14/ MC2 E90/FFA10 were "not present".



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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: RosscoPico
Date Posted: 03 December 2013 at 9:31pm
Originally posted by csg csg wrote:

the only time i have ever had a problem getting "sub" from a lab is when trying to drive a turbosound "sub". But then again, thinking about it, turbosound have never made a sub...


http://www.turbosound.com/docs/products/TFS-900B.shtml" rel="nofollow - http://www.turbosound.com/docs/products/TFS-900B.shtml

But that's a real sub isn't it?  Looks powerful going on the specs.

Originally posted by tcourtneyvincent tcourtneyvincent wrote:

We have a gig this weekend and the Void is in repair again ha! So im looking for an amp to rent and all the big amps i seem to be able to get my hands on are light weights. Im looking at a Lab 13000, but is this going to be the same story as the FFA?


See if you can find a K20, that'll do the trickWink






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.:ELEMENT 5 SYSTEMS:.


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 03 December 2013 at 10:59pm
TFS-900B is indeed a proper sub and sounds great too. But it's bloody HUGE.


Posted By: dylan-penguinmedia
Date Posted: 03 December 2013 at 11:07pm
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

TFS-900B is indeed a proper sub and sounds great too. But it's bloody HUGE.


+1. Beast. We were going to upgrade our TSW218's we have in a venue to the big boys, then realised we'd have to rebuild the stage.

But they're brilliant Big smile


Posted By: Pasi
Date Posted: 03 December 2013 at 11:42pm
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

TFS-900B is indeed a proper sub and sounds great too. But it's bloody HUGE.


Says the man with the Incubus subs on mobile use Big smile


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 03 December 2013 at 11:43pm
lol

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Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 03 December 2013 at 11:59pm

Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

TFS-900B is indeed a proper sub and sounds great too. But it's bloody HUGE.


No bigger than most 340lb cabs...


Smile



Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 04 December 2013 at 12:06am
But surely that's a behringer product???

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“The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better”


Posted By: dylan-penguinmedia
Date Posted: 04 December 2013 at 12:11am
Originally posted by csg csg wrote:

But surely that's a behringer product???


Didn't Flashline debut before the change? Gotta be close!


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 04 December 2013 at 12:20am
Originally posted by Pasi Pasi wrote:

Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

TFS-900B is indeed a proper sub and sounds great too. But it's bloody HUGE.


Says the man with the Incubus subs on mobile use Big smile


I never said it was too huge for me… anyway if everybody started carrying ridiculously big subs I'd be out of a job


Posted By: RosscoPico
Date Posted: 04 December 2013 at 10:03am
I know how big it is, as that's exactly what I thought when I saw it for the first time in the factory!

I've still not had a chance to hear it yet, but hopefully I'll get a chance to soon..


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.:ELEMENT 5 SYSTEMS:.


Posted By: dylan-penguinmedia
Date Posted: 04 December 2013 at 10:52am
First time I heard it, was at that Red Bull thing at Wembley Arena - Void had 40 x Stasys X, Fk1 had 80 x F121s, and Turbo had 22 x TFS900B's - wasn't as angry as the Void stack, but in my eyes did better than the purple, and sounded lovely with it! If they'd had enough boxes made in time and had brought 40, I think the world would have ended in there.


Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 04 December 2013 at 6:08pm
and off course the irony of it all is that they were / are driven off Lab PLM's - which by all accounts cant play sub?!?

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“The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better”


Posted By: dylan-penguinmedia
Date Posted: 04 December 2013 at 6:09pm
Originally posted by csg csg wrote:

and off course the irony of it all is that they were / are driven off Lab PLM's - which by all accounts cant play sub?!?


I wasn't going to feed the animals Chris - did think about mentioning that Tongue


Posted By: RosscoPico
Date Posted: 04 December 2013 at 11:19pm
Originally posted by csg csg wrote:

But surely that's a behringer product???


LOLLOLLOL

40x TFS900B Should be able to get 167dB (peak), pretty respectable!  

and Dylan, we're going to put on a party in Brighton this month so come along and say hello if you are interested to meet us :-)


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.:ELEMENT 5 SYSTEMS:.


Posted By: dylan-penguinmedia
Date Posted: 04 December 2013 at 11:21pm
Originally posted by RosscoPico RosscoPico wrote:

40x TFS900B Should be able to get 167dB (peak), pretty respectable!  

and Dylan, we're going to put on a party in Brighton this month so come along and say hello if you are interested to meet us :-)


Whereabouts? Yeah i'll pop by and show my face!


Posted By: RosscoPico
Date Posted: 04 December 2013 at 11:23pm
Okay cool, it'll be at the Volks.

Will let you know more at the end of the week Smile

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.:ELEMENT 5 SYSTEMS:.


Posted By: dylan-penguinmedia
Date Posted: 04 December 2013 at 11:26pm
Originally posted by RosscoPico RosscoPico wrote:

Okay cool, it'll be at the Volks.

Will let you know more at the end of the week Smile


100yards from the office - handy! Drop me a PM :)


Posted By: kedwardsleisure
Date Posted: 05 December 2013 at 12:04am
I don't suppose the best-sounding bass amp in the world is any match for any Lab Gruppen if it spends most of its time at the repairers!


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Kevin

North Staffordshire



Posted By: RosscoPico
Date Posted: 05 December 2013 at 12:14am
Sure Dylan, will do.

Good point Kevin.  From your experience then, who would you rate as the most reliable amp companies that you know of?

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.:ELEMENT 5 SYSTEMS:.


Posted By: kedwardsleisure
Date Posted: 05 December 2013 at 12:46pm
million dollar question, that!

Difficult to be scientific. I only see amps when they go wrong. That's a skewed view of the amp world! I can only tell you what amps are made with love and care and the best components and which are thrown together with cheap chinese rubbish parts. That doesn't always mean that the one type is more reliable than the other...though its a guide I suppose. I don't know how they're treated out in the field. I don't know how many units of a particular type are out there...the best-selling amp is bound to produce more failures due to shear volumes of sales.
As an example, I get alot of Mackie SRM450s for repair. They are I believe officially the world's best-selling powered plastic speaker...what's the reason they're a frequent visitor? Because they're unreliable, or because theyre so numerous?

A volume reseller like Blue Aran are perhaps better at answering this sort of question, because they will know what works out of the box, what fails under warranty, and what are the brands they never see come back.

Some manufacturers (and this goes for lighting as well as sound) will squeeze every last morsel of power out of their components to acheive performance at the sacrifice of reliability. I've just repaired some LED moving mirrors that worked (and no doubt sold themsleves) brilliantly until they were safely out of warranty whereupon the LED chip arrays died. Turned out they were so bright becuase they had over-run the leds for maximum impact and minimum reliability. I soon modified that! I'm sure you get the idea.



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Kevin

North Staffordshire




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