SAE PXM 1450 Power Amplifier Feedback
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Topic: SAE PXM 1450 Power Amplifier Feedback
Posted By: levyte357-
Subject: SAE PXM 1450 Power Amplifier Feedback
Date Posted: 30 January 2014 at 3:22pm
Specs look impressive on these, but for amp challenging Inf8Mk2 @ 4 ohms, and 9001 @ 2 ohms, 27kg weight seems little light, for amp of this power.
Has anyone tried playing 2x 800W-1000W drivers, per channel of this beast, on bass heavy music?
Picture with lid off, would also be great.
------------- Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.
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Replies:
Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 30 January 2014 at 3:24pm
yes and yes and yes, quality amp. price vs performance....
------------- https://www.elements-audio.com
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Posted By: corell
Date Posted: 30 January 2014 at 3:46pm
2 x pxm 1450 or 1 x pqm 13 for 12x PD 158 loadet horns?
is there a significant difference in bass perfomance between the "conventional" and the lightweight sereis?
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Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 30 January 2014 at 4:07pm
IEC power cord? For that much juice?
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Posted By: lionpawsoundsystem
Date Posted: 30 January 2014 at 4:13pm
Was just about to start a similar thread.
Im currently trying to decide whether to run this (pxm1450) into 4 x pd1850 loaded rhinos @ 8 ohm (two parrallel pairs in series) or run two prolines at 4 ohm bridge (2 scoops per proline). I know which my back will prefer, but what about my ears and drivers?
Would love to see some bench test results and how harsh the clipped signal is on these if theres any been done?
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Posted By: Kyriptus
Date Posted: 30 January 2014 at 4:37pm
I have just started to look at this amp as well the specs do look good indeed, as lev has said has anyone actually used these for bass duty? as im looking to power 2 fane 18xbs per channel of which i have 16 fane 18xbs to power
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Posted By: Tony Wilkes
Date Posted: 30 January 2014 at 4:38pm
toastyghost wrote:
IEC power cord? For that much juice? |
Where is the IEC socket? :)
Tony
------------- www.forteaudio.eu - BMS - db-Mark Processors - Lexon (SAE)
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Posted By: Costa
Date Posted: 30 January 2014 at 4:50pm
Tony Wilkes wrote:
toastyghost wrote:
IEC power cord? For that much juice? |
Where is the IEC socket? :)
Tony
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Exactly, i dont see it!!!!
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Posted By: lionpawsoundsystem
Date Posted: 30 January 2014 at 10:14pm
Lev, Internal shot here....http://notroubleit.com/forum/47-forte-audio/20529-new-lexon-pxm-amplifiers
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Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 30 January 2014 at 10:37pm
lionpawsoundsystem wrote:
Lev, Internal shot here....http://notroubleit.com/forum/47-forte-audio/20529-new-lexon-pxm-amplifiers
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Cheers.
http://notroubleit.com/forum/47-forte-audio/20529-new-lexon-pxm-amplifiers" rel="nofollow - http://notroubleit.com/forum/47-forte-audio/20529-new-lexon-pxm-amplifiers
Tony Wilkes @ freespeakerplans wrote:
Internal shot of one of the new Lexon PXM1450 amplifiers, 2 x 1450w/8 ohms 2 x 2400w/4 ohms 27Kg
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------------- Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.
|
Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 30 January 2014 at 10:54pm
they are very well laid out lev, plus each section is on its own board, meaning if one was to go wrong, repairs would be cheap as its only a case of swopping out a board.
------------- https://www.elements-audio.com
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Posted By: ape3435
Date Posted: 30 January 2014 at 10:56pm
Bee....does Tony supply the replacement boards?
Ape
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Posted By: lickweed
Date Posted: 30 January 2014 at 11:20pm
It state in specs non removable IEC
------------- http://www.liquidsound.co.uk/
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Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 30 January 2014 at 11:27pm
parts are available.
------------- https://www.elements-audio.com
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Posted By: ape3435
Date Posted: 30 January 2014 at 11:32pm
Bee...good to know, thanks
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Posted By: NathanShort
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 6:24am
In fact they would be amazing amps, but they have some major flaws.
Meter is not enough steps. Internal limiter is shit. Does nothing. And unless set with Nasa like precision in your DSP there is no forgiveness , it will burn drivers.
That I cannot live with.
Plus the use the damn cheapest parts on the rear panel and lay it out horribly on all their amps.
Look at the back of any QSC PL series, or Crown Itec. That is a well laid out amp with flow and options.
-------------
“Gentlemen, we will chase perfection, and we will chase it relentlessly, knowing all the while we can never attain it. But along the way, we shall catch excellence.”
― Vince Lombardi Jr.
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Posted By: Tony Wilkes
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 9:03am
Nathon,
If you are talking about the Lexon amps you need to stay off the wacky mate :)
Tony
------------- www.forteaudio.eu - BMS - db-Mark Processors - Lexon (SAE)
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Posted By: tomr_29
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 9:06am
NathanShort wrote:
In fact they would be amazing amps, but they have some major flaws.
Meter is not enough steps. Internal limiter is shit. Does nothing. And unless set with Nasa like precision in your DSP there is no forgiveness , it will burn drivers.
That I cannot live with.
Plus the use the damn cheapest parts on the rear panel and lay it out horribly on all their amps.
Look at the back of any QSC PL series, or Crown Itec. That is a well laid out amp with flow and options.
|
Based on what facts?
I have an SAE PQM13 and all the rear connectors are Neutrik...
------------- Proper capitalisation is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse. www.facebook.com/tremoracoustics
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Posted By: Tony Wilkes
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 9:59am
Tom,
I did not think it was worth a serious answer :)
Tony
------------- www.forteaudio.eu - BMS - db-Mark Processors - Lexon (SAE)
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Posted By: tomr_29
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 10:03am
Tony Wilkes wrote:
Tom,
I did not think it was worth a serious answer :)
Tony
|
Fair point
------------- Proper capitalisation is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse. www.facebook.com/tremoracoustics
|
Posted By: jacethebase
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 11:55am
DjLeco wrote:
Excluding their "rich and old culture" that I RESPECT, they are idiots.
So idiots that they disgrace me.
So tiny wire connections for that amount of power, so tiny EMI coil at trafo input for that amount of power.
So, and So, and So...
So if I become seller of amps made by me, for this video, I must say mine amp deliver 19800Watts/8 ohms loading? (one zero in plus especially wrote)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KCCtZOnqH8&feature=youtu.be" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KCCtZOnqH8&feature=youtu.be
http://postimg.org/image/9vsgqvrf3/" rel="nofollow"> |
What?
------------- www.wedding-production.co.uk
www.stage2sound.com
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Posted By: luton_soundman
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 12:05pm
i don't think the whole of the Chinese race built/designed the amplifier. A billion in their country alone and you wana stereotype them all based on a product. This site has a way of exposing all the racists. That aside yes it doesn't look well built or designed you're right. Dissapointing. Unfortunately your comments have been overlooked due to your narrow minded views on a whole race
------------- Sound Hire/Sales new/used equipment.
|
Posted By: tomr_29
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 12:05pm
@DjLeco
The Crown Class-I amplifier is essentially a full-bridge Class-D amplifier where the PWM signal is determined by the signal amplitude as opposed to using the typical fixed frequency of normal PWM.
http://www.crownaudio.com/media/pdf/amps/137234.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www.crownaudio.com/media/pdf/amps/137234.pdf
The SAE Class-I works by adapting the power supply output to minimise resistive losses in the output transistors. (Edit: Link downloads a .pdf)
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=12&ved=0CGcQFjAL&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jos.ac.cn%2Fbdtxben%2Fch%2Freader%2Fcreate_pdf.aspx%3Ffile_no%3D12022002&ei=DIvrUqqIEoG57Ab-64D4Aw&usg=AFQjCNExqOLB_a0_q4_DzxuLuvXktxuXFg&sig2=mv2nO7-B3Ks6Cjq8X4IUSQ&bvm=bv.60444564,d.ZGU&cad=rja" rel="nofollow - http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=12&ved=0CGcQFjAL&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jos.ac.cn%2Fbdtxben%2Fch%2Freader%2Fcreate_pdf.aspx%3Ffile_no%3D12022002&ei=DIvrUqqIEoG57Ab-64D4Aw&usg=AFQjCNExqOLB_a0_q4_DzxuLuvXktxuXFg&sig2=mv2nO7-B3Ks6Cjq8X4IUSQ&bvm=bv.60444564,d.ZGU&cad=rja
The two technologies are nothing alike, they just both called them Class-I at around the same time which isn't really helpful. In the last few years a lot of different amplifier classes have been 'invented' and the majority are just re-hashes of A, AB, D and G.
Your other comments are racist and disgusting. If you want to speak about anyone that way I suggest you find somewhere else to voice your opinions as nobody here is remotely impressed.
------------- Proper capitalisation is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse. www.facebook.com/tremoracoustics
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Posted By: Tony Wilkes
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 12:21pm
I had a bit of respect for that guy but his post is some of the most ill-informed and disgustingly racist comments I have read on here.
One of my criteria for intelligence is the lack of racism in a person, Pepe's can be clever but anybody who is rascist can never be intelligent in my book.
DJ-Leco you disgust me.
Tony
------------- www.forteaudio.eu - BMS - db-Mark Processors - Lexon (SAE)
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Posted By: Wikl109
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 12:29pm
Yes I agree with the above. Terrible to reference this in the way you have Leco. I also do not see what relevance bringing up atrocities like that has to do with amplifier design. Really poor taste comments.
------------- Cheers, Chris.
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Posted By: mini-mad
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 12:53pm
Rite... Ian just ban him.... and then can we more on with this thread please. I was getting interested till the two pages of telling some one how much of a dick they was... can we move on please and stop wasting time on a subject that should get ANYONE and instant ban on here.
thank you.
....so, im a matrix fan as i love the amps and what they do for me and iv been lucky enuff to get some silly prices on them and i think they sound superb. Im warming to this 1450 though......
------------- If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.
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Posted By: oldskool
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 1:00pm
What the hell just happened? I have no problem poking fun at the americans or anybody else for that matter but what on earth that has to do with dropping nasty bombs and wishing them hell while at the same time having a rant saying how your amp is better than anybody else's is just barmy . I was hoping for a useful discussion about these amps that I might be interested in hearing and playing with later in the year. I don't care whether they have bloody limiters and if they work or not, what is it with these people?
------------- Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies
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Posted By: luton_soundman
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 1:02pm
if we're banning racists ill post some old topics and we can ban the. All. That aside amp looks suspect for the specs given. Does anyone else see it?
------------- Sound Hire/Sales new/used equipment.
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Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 1:04pm
luton_soundman wrote:
i don't think the whole of the Chinese race built/designed the amplifier. A billion in their country alone and you wana stereotype them all based on a product. This site has a way of exposing all the racists. That aside yes it doesn't look well built or designed you're right. Dissapointing. Unfortunately your comments have been overlooked due to your narrow minded views on a whole race |
Even with all the excellent inf DJ Leco has contributed over the years, the above sums up the situation.
Leco, maybe a suitable apology, would go some way to mend your reputation, unfortunately tarnished by a couple of your most recent posts.
Especially as there are some Chinese members here, continually having to face racist SP comments about China already.
------------- Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.
|
Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 1:09pm
luton_soundman wrote:
That aside amp looks suspect for the specs given. Does anyone else see it? |
Would be great if thread returned to technical discussion, then maybe some bench sine measurement, at 50hz, 1khz, 10khz. Has been a long time, since we've had a transformer amp to get excited about, and put it under the spot light.
If amp configuration is not the old Class G/H, then maybe topology is wringing the same power from this 2U design, that we would expect from 3U guys like Inf8MK2 & 9001?
------------- Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.
|
Posted By: Kyriptus
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 1:13pm
Has anyone bench tested this amp and has actually examined the inside of the amplifer, im looking into getting some of these (PXM1450) in the near future :)
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Posted By: Heathrow_B_line
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 1:13pm
no logical reason for it but I love the heavy weight amps
------------- Produce a killer sound. Take no prisoners.
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Posted By: Wikl109
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 1:14pm
Despite the fact that some very hefty amps have had captive mains leads over the years the cable used in that rear image pic in the first post does not look meaty enough for an amp of this spec. Although that pic could be of one of the lower power models.
------------- Cheers, Chris.
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Posted By: Heathrow_B_line
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 1:16pm
the lead is only 1.5m long, how meaty do you think it needs to be?
------------- Produce a killer sound. Take no prisoners.
|
Posted By: Wikl109
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 1:18pm
Heathrow_B_line wrote:
the lead is only 1.5m long, how meaty do you think it needs to be? |
With that type of cable gland it just dosen't look anywhere near as thick as the captive lead on say even a Thomann Proline.
------------- Cheers, Chris.
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Posted By: odc04r
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 1:26pm
Doesn't need to be as thick if the efficiency is higher. All swings and roundabouts. The proline is a chunky well engineered beast but not a sophisticated design.
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Posted By: Wikl109
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 1:28pm
odc04r wrote:
Doesn't need to be as thick if the efficiency is higher. All swings and roundabouts. The proline is a chunky well engineered beast but not a sophisticated design.
| I've just had a quick look at the Proline 3k and there maybe isn't that much in it. Still think i'd have rather had a 32a Powercon or similar on an amp of that power.
------------- Cheers, Chris.
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Posted By: Heathrow_B_line
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 1:31pm
they usually use the thicker cable for 120v
that's why some of the crest p9001's have cables the girth of a small tree
------------- Produce a killer sound. Take no prisoners.
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Posted By: chemicalabuse
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 1:50pm
i have a pcm12 i know its not a pxm but would be interesting in having it bench tested to see how the specs stack up to paper figure but i am impressed with the amp, bassed in manchester if theres anyone close interested
------------- Amens!
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Posted By: jbl_man
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 1:56pm
Ok,i have edited out the offending posts..can i please make it quite clear,as sometimes the issues here seem to get a little confused....this forum is about speakers and sound etc,it is not about politics or race. I dont care if you are left-wing,right wing,white,black,yellow,inuit,arab,jewish or even ginger.
Next deliberately offensive racist comment the poster will get permanently banned.
Carry-on please gents.
------------- Be seeing you.
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Posted By: Father-Francis
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 2:00pm
ginger
------------- Music is the strongest form of magic.(+45 31879997)blakmanpro@gmail.com, foa@sweetboxaudio.dk
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Posted By: Kyriptus
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 2:00pm
chemicalabuse wrote:
i have a pcm12 i know its not a pxm but would be interesting in having it bench tested to see how the specs stack up to paper figure but i am impressed with the amp, bassed in manchester if theres anyone close interested
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how does it fair on bass duty?
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Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 2:10pm
Kyriptus wrote:
chemicalabuse wrote:
i have a pcm12 i know its not a pxm but would be interesting in having it bench tested to see how the specs stack up to paper figure but i am impressed with the amp, bassed in manchester if theres anyone close interested
|
how does it fair on bass duty?
|
Ahem...
------------- Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.
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Posted By: mini-mad
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 2:10pm
Father-Francis wrote:
ginger | .....careful!
Can anyone bench one? Wouldnt mind seeing the out come. With limiters turned off.
------------- If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.
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Posted By: luton_soundman
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 2:14pm
------------- Sound Hire/Sales new/used equipment.
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Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 2:19pm
I dont have the PCM amps but i do have the 18 series amps that should be pretty much same. I have done some measuring on my biggest one (the 20 which i believe is called 18 now, or not, i have no idea if it is the same amp with more conservative spec, or they have discontinued this 20 one, maybe Tony can ask this for me i would love to get a few more of the 20 amps for my subs). What i did is connect one channel of the amp to one BA218 sub (2x18 inch) and played 70hz tone (i did this inside a 40m2 room so having 40hz tone will do a lot of damage on that level so 70hz was more bearable) till the clip light flashed. I measured 154V. Which is a lot of power on 4 ohms. About 5500W. I didnt do this on both channels at once because that will devastate my R&D room and it was too cold outside to go and do it.
I have run the amp on 2 ohms for a short time during a demo. So not sure how this can be of any meaning because the amp never run more then like 5 min at a time. But i didnt noticed any sign of stress or increased temperature.
------------- Marjan Milosevic MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713
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Posted By: chemicalabuse
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 2:34pm
don't wana highjack the thread but it does realy well had it on 4ohm loads and 2 ohm loads v1800 hogs and pd.186 es18bph and not a problem all night. Very nice sounding bass for a digital amp! plenty of headroom on the pd186s but happy run the v1000 all night with a tiny bit of headroom would deffo recomend it as a cheaper lightweight option, on the terms of the powercable it is fairly beefy comes with a 13 amp on the end but will be swapping that to a 16 amp ceeform this weekend. i will get some pic of the inside if i get chance.
but no more questions back to the PXM
------------- Amens!
|
Posted By: Tony Wilkes
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 2:40pm
MarjanM wrote:
I dont have the PCM amps but i do have the 18 series amps that should be pretty much same.I have done some measuring on my biggest one (the 20 which i believe is called 18 now, or not, i have no idea if it is the same amp with more conservative spec, or they have discontinued this 20 one, maybe Tony can ask this for me i would love to get a few more of the 20 amps for my subs). What i did is connect one channel of the amp to one BA218 sub (2x18 inch) and played 70hz tone (i did this inside a 40m2 room so having 40hz tone will do a lot of damage on that level so 70hz was more bearable) till the clip light flashed. I measured 154V. Which is a lot of power on 4 ohms. About 5500W. I didnt do this on both channels at once because that will devastate my R&D room and it was too cold outside to go and do it.
I have run the amp on 2 ohms for a short time during a demo. So not sure how this can be of any meaning because the amp never run more then like 5 min at a time. But i didnt noticed any sign of stress or increased temperature. |
No problem Marjan, I will get in touch after their new years break.
Tony
------------- www.forteaudio.eu - BMS - db-Mark Processors - Lexon (SAE)
|
Posted By: Father-Francis
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 3:04pm
MarjanM wrote:
I dont have the PCM amps but i do have the 18 series amps that should be pretty much same.I have done some measuring on my biggest one (the 20 which i believe is called 18 now, or not, i have no idea if it is the same amp with more conservative spec, or they have discontinued this 20 one, maybe Tony can ask this for me i would love to get a few more of the 20 amps for my subs). What i did is connect one channel of the amp to one BA218 sub (2x18 inch) and played 70hz tone (i did this inside a 40m2 room so having 40hz tone will do a lot of damage on that level so 70hz was more bearable) till the clip light flashed. I measured 154V. Which is a lot of power on 4 ohms. About 5500W. I didnt do this on both channels at once because that will devastate my R&D room and it was too cold outside to go and do it.
I have run the amp on 2 ohms for a short time during a demo. So not sure how this can be of any meaning because the amp never run more then like 5 min at a time. But i didnt noticed any sign of stress or increased temperature. |
are these the ones you are talking about http://www.lexonpro.com/products/content.aspx?id=31" rel="nofollow - http://www.lexonpro.com/products/content.aspx?id=31
------------- Music is the strongest form of magic.(+45 31879997)blakmanpro@gmail.com, foa@sweetboxaudio.dk
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Posted By: peter_p
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 3:07pm
I'd just like to thank Tony W for bringing in such great products from China.
Its really changed most peoples opinion about Chinese built products.
Just think, 4 months ago and you couldn't give a Chinese amp away, they were all crap and every manufacturer there was skimping and ripping off western designs badly. But thanks to Tony's products you can never say another bad thing about China products ever again without the fear of being banned.
Its a revelation and can only be good for Chinese manufacturing, which as we all know is where it all has to go as the west is useless now at manufacturing.
------------- Its got to the point that I would be more worried if you did something properly or remotely useful
|
Posted By: DjLeco
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 3:09pm
tomr_29 wrote:
@DjLeco
The Crown Class-I amplifier is essentially a full-bridge Class-D amplifier where the PWM signal is determined by the signal amplitude as opposed to using the typical fixed frequency of normal PWM.
http://www.crownaudio.com/media/pdf/amps/137234.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www.crownaudio.com/media/pdf/amps/137234.pdf
The SAE Class-I works by adapting the power supply output to minimise resistive losses in the output transistors. (Edit: Link downloads a .pdf)
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=12&ved=0CGcQFjAL&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jos.ac.cn%2Fbdtxben%2Fch%2Freader%2Fcreate_pdf.aspx%3Ffile_no%3D12022002&ei=DIvrUqqIEoG57Ab-64D4Aw&usg=AFQjCNExqOLB_a0_q4_DzxuLuvXktxuXFg&sig2=mv2nO7-B3Ks6Cjq8X4IUSQ&bvm=bv.60444564,d.ZGU&cad=rja" rel="nofollow - http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=12&ved=0CGcQFjAL&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jos.ac.cn%2Fbdtxben%2Fch%2Freader%2Fcreate_pdf.aspx%3Ffile_no%3D12022002&ei=DIvrUqqIEoG57Ab-64D4Aw&usg=AFQjCNExqOLB_a0_q4_DzxuLuvXktxuXFg&sig2=mv2nO7-B3Ks6Cjq8X4IUSQ&bvm=bv.60444564,d.ZGU&cad=rja
The two technologies are nothing alike, they just both called them Class-I at around the same time which isn't really helpful. In the last few years a lot of different amplifier classes have been 'invented' and the majority are just re-hashes of A, AB, D and G.
Your other comments are racist and disgusting. If you want to speak about anyone that way I suggest you find somewhere else to voice your opinions as nobody here is remotely impressed.
|
I have spoked like that in JOKE mode, not rasist ideea...
Sorry to be a little racist (in yours opinion), doesn't want that, I ask mine apologies for that but I'm enough by their false description on pdf's.
Man, classI is classI and is UNIQUE, patented by Crown.
In classI, both switching devices switch both in same time with 50% duty cycle (in idle mode), and when he works just ballance the amount of duty cycle between switches.
In classI there-s NO FULL BRIDGE topology ant NO DEADTIME, between switches!
Read carefully the under PDF.
http://www.crownaudio.com/media/pdf/amps/bcapaper.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www.crownaudio.com/media/pdf/amps/bcapaper.pdf
http://www.crownaudio.com/media/pdf/amps/136225.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www.crownaudio.com/media/pdf/amps/136225.pdf
Yamaha topology are called TD class (tracking digital) downconverter power supply amplifier, wich switches do their job in 180 degrees (push pull) topology, similar as AB class amplifier but without biasing, because no needed.
TD class is an AB or B class amplifier, "followed" like ClassH 2 step by rail step up switches, but here the switching are made at high freqs above 100-300Khz, depending of quality design (Labgruppen uses first time 614Khz sync signal for downconverter switches), and yamaha around 500Khz (autooscilant design).
So is 100% different by official ClassI topology.
Sorry for my earlier comments regarding chinese manufacturers and PLEASE ACCEPT MY APOLOGIES but allow me to hate their low quality work for all cloned amplifiers.
I quote something wich deserve to pay attention from first PDF:
To produce a class-D PWM amplifier with low amounts
of distortion near zero output current, it has been necessary
to operate the time alternating power switches with
very precise sequencing of the two switches. If the
switches have any dead time (no switch on) between
their activation large amounts of distortion will form. If
they overlap, the circuitry would self-destruct with large
amounts of shoot-through current. The circuitry has been
designed around the paradigm and is therefore not tolerant
of any violation of time alternation.
In the Crown BCA design, when there is no intended
output signal, the power switches are being turned on
and off simultaneously with a 50% duty cycle. The result
is the formation of two balanced and canceling highfrequency
output currents with no output at the no-signal condition.
To produce an output signal the output of one of the
switches is increased in duty while the remaining switch
is decreased by the same amount.
Both pulses remain
centered on each other or balanced in time. The result
is that the difference ripple current has a minimum frequency
which is twice the operating frequency of the
individual switches.
The frequency doubling character of the output is remarkable
and further allows advancement towards Loy
Barton’s goal of more from less. The switching losses
are effectively halved by this property as it is only necessary
to switch at 250KHz to make a 500KHz amplifier!
The result is that the operating frequency is taken to its
theoretical maximum of N (the number of switches) x fs
(the switching frequency). This is a full factor of two faster
than any known previous design.
The modulation process makes two decisions per switching
cycle for each switch, as both the turn-on time and
the turn-off time are independently controlled by the
modulator. A 250KHz Crown BCA design thus has one
million switch decisions made each second. This is what
is required for full bandwidth audio operation. Previous
to the BCA the conventional wisdom correctly held that
any full-bandwidth audio amplifier would need operate
at 500KHz. Low quality or limited bandwidth PWM designs
have operated at lesser frequencies.
------------- I'm A Stupid SMART Romanian...
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Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 3:15pm
Fransis i am talking about this.
http://www.saechina.com/products_detail.aspx?id=21&zhu=4" rel="nofollow - http://www.saechina.com/products_detail.aspx?id=21&zhu=4
And Rog, not that long ago your amps and dsps were also rebadged Chinese units with very poor reliability. Remeber the Digisyntheic units?
Now no one will be saying that from now on the Chinese amps are the best thing in the world. But there are products from there that does work. You should know that better then we do because you produce in China too. Why dont you build your boxes in UK then? People like you are the one that fucked up the manufacturing in Europe.
------------- Marjan Milosevic MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713
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Posted By: DjLeco
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 4:14pm
Hey, guys, lets'not argue between us...
I asked apologies for early ugly comments (thank's to moderator for delete my stupid post), but we are here to speak in concordance with this amplifier.
I have told what I told about it, let's chill and make constructive discussions, we're not here to measure who have longer d***.
So what can I finally say about this amplifier is SURE not an I class Amplifier, just another clone fron TD yamaha amps.
How good and reliable is, the time will show, and if most of you are so enchanted, GO to buy it!
------------- I'm A Stupid SMART Romanian...
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Posted By: boots-hifi
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 4:14pm
I have owned a PXM 1450 for a few months now, it does an excellent job of running my Turbomax 1500i drivers, 2 per channel it runs all night long without even getting remotely warm - I've not attempted to run at 2ohm, its not necessary in my view. What I will say is it sounds allot nicer than the void on bass duties but thats my personal opinion, the Void will win on pure aggression but the PXM 1450's are more musical. Build quality is excellent, as is the layout and the FIXED mains lead is 4mm so I don't understand what the issue is because as far as I'm aware this will be more than sufficient for total load. Lev I can bring the amp down to GP for people to try out, I was intending to give it to Luke at the last event but one thing and another....
As it stands i'll be ordering another 5 PXM 1450's from Tony Wilkes/Bee in the coming months along with other SAE products which I fully support. These will be powering my rig at Notting hill this year and all outings leading up to it. If by then they've died it will be lesson learnt but I doubt it, I suggest these amps do the rounds and prove their worth in the field a posed to getting slated off based on peoples bad experiences with other brands and brand snobbery. One last thing Tony Wilkes knows his shit, he's costumer services is second to none and he has spent much time helping many others out over the years on this forum. Reputations and respect take a life time to build but can be ruined in a instance, I very much doubt he will be indorcing dodgy Chinese amps just for a fast buck.
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Posted By: luton_soundman
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 4:22pm
yes boots wheres the amp
------------- Sound Hire/Sales new/used equipment.
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Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 4:37pm
boots-hifi wrote:
I have owned a PXM 1450 for a few months now, it does an excellent job of running my Turbomax 1500i drivers, 2 per channel it runs all night long without even getting remotely warm - |
That does say a lot, but people play Turbomax 1500s "differently".
Would like to see how amp copes with playing PDs, the way Luke was playing his at last GP soundcheck.
------------- Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.
|
Posted By: Heathrow_B_line
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 4:39pm
if it can run a turbomax then a pd should be easy
turbomax sucks up power like a sponge. that's why a lot of ppl called them car audio drivers!
------------- Produce a killer sound. Take no prisoners.
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Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 4:41pm
Lev, i am powering 18NLW9601 with my amp and it shakes it quite good. So when it is on a job it runs full tilt. I have it for more then 3 years now. Mainly doing house and deep house parties midnight to 6am.
------------- Marjan Milosevic MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713
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Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 4:49pm
Heathrow_B_line wrote:
if it can run a turbomax then a pd should be easy |
I'm sure you recall at Southall amp test few years ago, a certain 1U lightweight, that everyone said was so powerful, rated 3000wpc @ 4 ohms, almost lost it's lunch trying to drive 2x PD1850s per channel, in Ren's capable hands.
Last Ballistic outing at GP, was perfect example of what's required from amps, from certain sound systems, so when amps can perform in those environments, IMHO, that's when they get the nod.
------------- Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.
|
Posted By: DjLeco
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 4:53pm
Wich amp was that, Lev?
You can tell it on PM, if you don't want to open polemics or make free reklam.
------------- I'm A Stupid SMART Romanian...
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Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 4:53pm
Lev, why dont you get one and try it? I am sure Tony will be happy to provide you with one. Since i have no idea of your reggae style box and amp torture practice i can only comment on my own experience.
------------- Marjan Milosevic MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713
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Posted By: Heathrow_B_line
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 4:54pm
that's a bit harsh. the pkn did ok but is just a touch too small to drive 4 pds balls to the walls
the pkn 10k should be more then enough for 4 pds
------------- Produce a killer sound. Take no prisoners.
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Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 4:58pm
The XE PKN have a slight undeliberate self made problem. The voltage limiter is very conservative and killing the low end a bit. So the result is as you have experienced it. One should try the XD or the new XE-U series where the problem is fixed. So it is not the lack of power, but the low end response when the limiter start working.
------------- Marjan Milosevic MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713
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Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 4:59pm
Posted By: mini-mad
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 7:00pm
Sooooooooo.. can anyone stick it on a scope and a few house boilers and get some measured figures?
------------- If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.
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Posted By: mk2_ginger_biscuit69
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 7:06pm
jbl_man wrote:
Ok,i have edited out the offending posts..can i please make it quite clear,as sometimes the issues here seem to get a little confused....this forum is about speakers and sound etc,it is not about politics or race. I dont care if you are left-wing,right wing,white,black,yellow,inuit,arab,jewish or even ginger.
Next deliberately offensive racist comment the poster will get permanently banned.
Carry-on please gents.
Father-Francis wrote:
ginger |
mini-mad wrote:
Father-Francis wrote:
ginger | .....careful!
|
|
WHY DO YOU PEOPLE KEEP SAYING I'M GINGER!?!? IT IS SO DAMN IGNORANT, JEEEEZ, GET OVER IT SHEEPLE, its rusty blond
------------- ''Remember that the object of a subwoofer is to enhance the output of your main speakers, not overpower it''
''Dubstep - an elongated electronic fart''
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Posted By: Jimmer
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 7:09pm
mk2_ginger_biscuit69 wrote:
jbl_man wrote:
Ok,i have edited out the offending posts..can i please make it quite clear,as sometimes the issues here seem to get a little confused....this forum is about speakers and sound etc,it is not about politics or race. I dont care if you are left-wing,right wing,white,black,yellow,inuit,arab,jewish or even ginger.
Next deliberately offensive racist comment the poster will get permanently banned.
Carry-on please gents.
Father-Francis wrote:
ginger |
mini-mad wrote:
Father-Francis wrote:
ginger | .....careful!
|
|
WHY DO YOU PEOPLE KEEP SAYING I'M GINGER!?!? IT IS SO DAMN IGNORANT, JEEEEZ, GET OVER IT SHEEPLE, its rusty blond
|
And what exactly do you mean when you say "YOU PEOPLE" hey?
------------- Light travels faster than sound....That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak!
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Posted By: mini-mad
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 7:10pm
mk2_ginger_biscuit69 wrote:
WHY DO YOU PEOPLE KEEP SAYING I'M GINGER!?!? IT IS SO DAMN IGNORANT, JEEEEZ, GET OVER IT SHEEPLE, its rusty blond
|
...rusty blonde? Thas a new one on me.
------------- If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.
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Posted By: U.Viktor
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 7:16pm
MarjanM wrote:
The XE PKN have a slight undeliberate self made problem.
The voltage limiter is very conservative and killing the low end a bit.
So the result is as you have experienced it. One should try the XD or
the new XE-U series where the problem is fixed. So it is not the lack of
power, but the low end response when the limiter start working.
|
I
would rather say the XE has very precise limiters, what I measured on
ours (XE4000, XE6000) was bellow +/- 0.3V accuracy what means better
than 0.4% error. Most of other amplifiers do not have such precise
limiter, neither so fast acting therefore the output waveform usually clipped at large signal levels BEFORE you noticed. Just
sightly clipped waveform has completely different sound because of the
amp loosing control of voice coils so the basic characteristics of
mechanical resonant system becomes in effect. Sure there are certain
wide range of speakers where this small clipping would create extra low
feeling, but I as told before many times : this effect has no "solid and
fixed phase" so in large systems would be strongly avoided. :-) because
the last thing what I want is a random phase source in the
installation.
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Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 7:22pm
Viktor ,we have argued about that same thing many times. What i think is a good bass is not good for someone else. I do love the very tight and super controlled sound of the pkn. But many is perceiving it as not loud of low enough. So they need something else with less control and different tone.
------------- Marjan Milosevic MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713
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Posted By: U.Viktor
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 7:25pm
[/QUOTE]
I have a mate who is looking for his next amplifier, and switching back from lightweights to a Crown Macrotech MA5000VZ.
Maybe Tony could let him demo a PXM1450 instead.
[/QUOTE]
The Crown MA5000VZ is not even comparable to PKN XE6000, the Crown has no regulated power supply so useless on not rock solid stability power line. Just small drop of the 230V and makes distortion, loosing power, etc.. Another thing is that the vocals sounds much clearest on the PKN :-)
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Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 7:35pm
------------- Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.
|
Posted By: burningbush
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 8:51pm
@lev
------------- music is the message
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Posted By: Father-Francis
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 10:17pm
this is one and them same amp boss ,
http://www.lexonpro.com/products/content.aspx?id=31" rel="nofollow - http://www.lexonpro.com/products/content.aspx?id=31
http://www.saechina.com/products_detail.aspx?id=21&zhu=4" rel="nofollow - http://www.saechina.com/products_detail.aspx?id=21&zhu=4
------------- Music is the strongest form of magic.(+45 31879997)blakmanpro@gmail.com, foa@sweetboxaudio.dk
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Posted By: DjLeco
Date Posted: 31 January 2014 at 11:02pm
U.Viktor wrote:
The Crown MA5000VZ is not even comparable to PKN XE6000, the Crown has no regulated power supply so useless on not rock solid stability power line. Just small drop of the 230V and makes distortion, loosing power, etc.. Another thing is that the vocals sounds much clearest on the PKN :-)
|
Even if I respect you alot, here you are NOT RIGHT.
How can you tell us, one classD amplifier, with rise and fall times worse than 11uSec, wich at 10Khz until 20Khz, squarewave becomes sinewave, performs better on audio quality, instead one AB-B class amplifier?
Do you think we are monkeys on the trees?
If you like to lie yourself, not a problem, but don't lie others!
Maybe if classD will be made at 2Mhz, as to be able to use output filter at value of 2,2-2,7uH (output filter coil),and maximum 100nF capacitor after output coil, we can discuss for better rise and fall times, implicit greater slew rate and better sound quality on high freq.
Until then, ClassD amplifiers will be good for bass-midbass and mids, to around 3-5Khz, bandthwidth where classD can reproduce almost acurately squarewave form signal.
ClassD amps, decrease alot quality of sound, when freq rise above 3-4Khz, as you will see in first movie, because she's slow on rise and fall times.
Watch here how performs above couple Khz, PKN XD series amps, tested by my on dummy load, wich seems to be ideal load regarding reactive and phase shifting load problems as one classical speaker must be used:
Here's one shortcut of what I said above:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oaL7Ucwp44&feature=youtu.be" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oaL7Ucwp44&feature=youtu.be
Entire movie here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYSUsRi880A" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYSUsRi880A
If you want to see how he cannot sustain sinewave on 2 ohms load, because "stabilised Vcc rail FALL DOWN" watch here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oP47BGp7mg" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oP47BGp7mg .
If you wants to see how macrotech 5000VZ performs on 2x4 ohms load, until 16 amperes automatic fuse from distro tripping off, watch here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNa_DQj5lv4" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNa_DQj5lv4
Or in 8 ohms
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4hmtKZ0Tn8" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4hmtKZ0Tn8
Even mine work, performs MUCH better in squarewave test, than one classD advanced amplifier, wich I consider to be, PKN Amps:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6jsj37hayM" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6jsj37hayM
------------- I'm A Stupid SMART Romanian...
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Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 01 February 2014 at 12:45am
father francis, the models being stocked are the pxm, pqm, pcm... not the one in your picture...
------------- https://www.elements-audio.com
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Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 01 February 2014 at 12:54am
Bee those are the ones i have. So that is why he put them here/
------------- Marjan Milosevic MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713
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Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 01 February 2014 at 12:56am
coolio, Marjanm
------------- https://www.elements-audio.com
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Posted By: KidCreole
Date Posted: 01 February 2014 at 1:25am
MA4800 is what he needs http://www.saechina.com/products_detail.aspx?id=38" rel="nofollow - http://www.saechina.com/products_detail.aspx?id=38
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Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 01 February 2014 at 3:19am
KidCreole wrote:
levyte357- wrote:
I have a mate who is looking for his next amplifier, and switching back from lightweights to a Crown Macrotech MA5000VZ.
Maybe Tony could let him demo a PXM1450 instead.
| MA4800 is what he needs http://www.saechina.com/products_detail.aspx?id=38" rel="nofollow - http://www.saechina.com/products_detail.aspx?id=38
|
Well the PXM1450 is quoted at 2400wpc @ 4 ohms, which means @ 4 ohm stereo, it should match Void Infinite 8 MK2, and outperform,
Crest CA18, Crown MA5000VZ, CREST 9001, QSC 5050.
So if it performs to spec, surely he wouldn't need more than that, to run 2x 800W PD1850s per channel !?
------------- Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.
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Posted By: luton_soundman
Date Posted: 01 February 2014 at 12:32pm
most people i know use pkn6000 for midtops and buy other amplifiers for sub.
------------- Sound Hire/Sales new/used equipment.
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Posted By: boots-hifi
Date Posted: 01 February 2014 at 12:51pm
Isn't this thread called feedback not speculation? Other than myself who actually owns a 1450 and can give an honest answer about performance etc? Reading the above comments all I can see is either a load of Chinese manufacturer bashing or a dick measuring contest against other amplifiers!
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Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 01 February 2014 at 1:40pm
@ boots very very true... Will be interesting to read this thread on Monday
------------- https://www.elements-audio.com
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Posted By: jbl_man
Date Posted: 01 February 2014 at 1:53pm
Is this the same SAE that produces this beautiful thing? Or is a different company/same name?
------------- Be seeing you.
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Posted By: KidCreole
Date Posted: 01 February 2014 at 1:57pm
@Lev
you stated that he wanted to go back to heavy weight. That's why I put it up
IF I ever start a little rental rig again it will be a heavy weight on sub and SM on the rest
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Posted By: knet94
Date Posted: 01 February 2014 at 2:13pm
jbl_man wrote:
Is this the same SAE that produces this beautiful thing? Or is a different company/same name?
|
Was wondering the very same thing Ian. I've actually got an SAE power amp very similar to that.
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Posted By: mini-mad
Date Posted: 01 February 2014 at 2:17pm
If they all looked like that i'd melt a credit card filling a rack full of them!!
------------- If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.
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Posted By: luton_soundman
Date Posted: 01 February 2014 at 2:33pm
bee wrote:
@ boots very very true... Will be interesting to read this thread on Monday | after ebony plays them at gp u mean?
------------- Sound Hire/Sales new/used equipment.
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Posted By: Tony Wilkes
Date Posted: 01 February 2014 at 2:45pm
Edward has PCM18's and a PQM13
Tony
------------- www.forteaudio.eu - BMS - db-Mark Processors - Lexon (SAE)
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Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 01 February 2014 at 3:46pm
yes Luton will be the first most people on this thread who have commented will hear them....
------------- https://www.elements-audio.com
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Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 01 February 2014 at 4:01pm
boots-hifi wrote:
Isn't this thread called feedback not speculation? Other than myself who actually owns a 1450 and can give an honest answer about performance etc? Reading the above comments all I can see is either a load of Chinese manufacturer bashing or a dick measuring contest against other amplifiers! |
Don't really understand that comment.
If an amp's specs suggest it will outperform most of the competition, there's nothing wrong with comparing it to the competition.
Not yet seen any transformer amp, that can match 8Mk2 at 4 ohm stereo, so possibility of contender is of much interest, seeing as 8MK2 is no longer made.
Know you've used it with Tmax 1500s, but like I said before, I'd want to hear it on Roots Reggae with pre-amp, before making up my mind.
------------- Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.
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Posted By: jbl_man
Date Posted: 01 February 2014 at 5:12pm
Must be a different company company Ken,these are made by SAE in Los Angeles US.
------------- Be seeing you.
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Posted By: U.Viktor
Date Posted: 01 February 2014 at 5:21pm
luton_soundman wrote:
most people i know use pkn6000 for midtops and buy other amplifiers for sub. |
Yes XE6000 for the MIDTOPS and XE10000U or 3PHASE-20K for the subs :-D If you have real capable speakers for that power...
Generally where we have XE6000 on subs 4000 is OK for the mids and 2500 on the tops.
The pkn 6000 on mids sounds nicely with Powersoft K10/K20 or Martin MA18K on the subs too. Depends
on the actual speakers the higher sample rate of PKNs are particulary
useful anywhere above lowers frequency range. Do not forget we compared
500KHz to 192KHz which is NOT a small difference!
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Posted By: knet94
Date Posted: 01 February 2014 at 5:46pm
jbl_man wrote:
Must be a different company company Ken,these are made by SAE in Los Angeles US.
|
Yes Ian Scientific Audio Electronics. Here's my one. Unfortunately the light for the VU meters is no longer working. https://imageshack.com/i/mr0u76j" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 01 February 2014 at 6:24pm
lev, I think boots's comments was in reference to others.... and hear say was not answering your question, original question....
------------- https://www.elements-audio.com
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Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 01 February 2014 at 6:54pm
bee wrote:
lev, I think boots's comments was in reference to others.... and hear say was not answering your question, original question.... |
No problem.
Would be fantastic having reliable, new transformer amp for 4 ohm stereo, instead of buying old old amps used, with dubious service history.
------------- Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.
|
Posted By: matt mcginn hi fi
Date Posted: 03 February 2014 at 8:22pm
might need to have a wee shoofty at these
|
Posted By: lickweed
Date Posted: 03 February 2014 at 8:56pm
So how did they perform?
------------- http://www.liquidsound.co.uk/
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Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 03 February 2014 at 9:10pm
lickweed wrote:
So how did they perform? |
Was lighweight version at GP, I'm after feedback regarding transformer version.
------------- Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.
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Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 03 February 2014 at 9:15pm
well Ebony showcase won the sound clash yesterday at golden palace, and was using the PCM18, powering 4 ass rx18 scoops B&C loaded..... Edward told me today, he never even needed the full power output from amp, and amps ran cold all night, and was over the moon with there performance... Ebony said he was going to tell Tony wilkes that they are staying in his racks, and will replace his 10k matrix amps....
------------- https://www.elements-audio.com
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