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"Orbit" coax midrange horns

Printed From: Speakerplans.com
Category: Plans
Forum Name: New Projects Forum
Forum Description: Forum for new speakerplans projects, in memory of Tony Wilkes, 1953 - 2014
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=86094
Printed Date: 05 March 2024 at 11:28am
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Topic: "Orbit" coax midrange horns
Posted By: Timebomb
Subject: "Orbit" coax midrange horns
Date Posted: 02 April 2014 at 3:29pm
Just put a spatter coat on a prototype of one of my MDF coax mid range horns.  Im yet to listen to or measure this version but i think they look rather nice.  Im still getting the hang of the spatter coat, i had issues with keeping the air flow consistent, i think i need another regulator just before the gun.







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James Secker          facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk               www.soundgear.co.uk



Replies:
Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 02 April 2014 at 3:31pm
This is the horn, (or a variation of the horn) i did for a Celestion cabinet design competition, im going to test this mid horn before building the main cabinet and the other horn.

http://celestion.com/speakerworld/patech/1/99/CABINET_DESIGN_WINNER!/" rel="nofollow - http://celestion.com/speakerworld/patech/1/99/CABINET_DESIGN_WINNER!/


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James Secker          facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk               www.soundgear.co.uk


Posted By: burningbush
Date Posted: 02 April 2014 at 3:44pm
Very nice.

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music is the message


Posted By: Shaun
Date Posted: 02 April 2014 at 4:24pm
Very nice, love the design, would love to build some my self


Posted By: Thomas Hosker
Date Posted: 02 April 2014 at 6:02pm
I wondered who designed that celestion plan! Dude the coax mid looks awesome!

Do you have anymore info on your lower mid horn?


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WWW.T8Audio.Com


Posted By: Mark James
Date Posted: 02 April 2014 at 6:13pm
another nice looking project :-] tanks for saring :-]

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me so horny me love you long throw
horn loaded for her pleasure


Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 02 April 2014 at 6:17pm
Thanks guys,  i haven't built the low mid horn / main cabinet yet, though i have built a 12" ported version that is similar  that i should be testing in a few days.  I did a 15" version of this design that worked very well, this one i am aiming to make it even smaller and lighter, but with small loss of extension and SPL.

The texture is settling now, the paint im using does not seem to hold its texture too well, i might have to get some tuff cab ordered, or might just wire it up and listen to it tomorrow, its only a prototype.


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James Secker          facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk               www.soundgear.co.uk


Posted By: Mark James
Date Posted: 02 April 2014 at 6:18pm
damn h button!!! take it no plans then? :p

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me so horny me love you long throw
horn loaded for her pleasure


Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 02 April 2014 at 6:29pm
Still undecided exactly what to do with this design so im afraid i wont be publishing detailed plans at the moment, also the mid horn is quite time consuming to build so i doubt it would be much use as a diy design, i had to build several jigs to laminate the hardboard and clamp the baffles while glue sets, and i want to experiment with another jig idea i had.  


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James Secker          facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk               www.soundgear.co.uk


Posted By: Thomas Hosker
Date Posted: 02 April 2014 at 6:34pm
Any pics or info on the 15" version you did?


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WWW.T8Audio.Com


Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 02 April 2014 at 7:23pm
The 15" was a test cab, chipboard / osb special, an ugly dog covered in plaster, not pretty to look at.   Sounded nice though. 


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James Secker          facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk               www.soundgear.co.uk


Posted By: Mark James
Date Posted: 02 April 2014 at 7:37pm
what was the useable bandwidth on the 15" horn?
i wasnt expecting you to give out plans just like that spesh considering its a comp winner just wanted to see if we can prompt more discussion get the old grey matter working lol well done sir!!!


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me so horny me love you long throw
horn loaded for her pleasure


Posted By: TONY.A.S.S.
Date Posted: 02 April 2014 at 8:19pm
James, with regard to your spatter finish, what is the extent of your equipment? Do you have a pressure pot setup?

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Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 02 April 2014 at 8:20pm
15" version played well from 110Hz-350Hz ish with kappa 15.  it could run higher without honking or any obvious nastys but output rolled off.  Liked being on the floor though, much less extension when it was high up, i didnt make a 2nd to see how it performed in pairs.  ill drag it out and do some measurements when i measure the others. 


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James Secker          facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk               www.soundgear.co.uk


Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 02 April 2014 at 8:24pm
Yep pressure pot for the paint and restricting the air flow on the gun to get splatter,  im thinking it would be better to regulate again at the gun so ive just bought another mini regulator, it was a very fine adjustment between spray and gushing paint out, i think it will be better to run the tap fully open and regulate it.      


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James Secker          facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk               www.soundgear.co.uk


Posted By: TONY.A.S.S.
Date Posted: 02 April 2014 at 8:28pm
Ok, one thing is still not clear, do you have a proper spatter gun?

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Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 02 April 2014 at 8:41pm
Nope just a 2mm nozzle suction feed gun fed from the pressure pot, i do have a couple of under seal guns that ive got reasonable spatter with before though.  I think i  need to find the sweet spot with the air pressure and the paint pressure and keep it consistent, i seemed to have it then loose it, then i put too much on, then put more on the rest of the horn to even it out, takes practice to get it really neat i think.


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James Secker          facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk               www.soundgear.co.uk


Posted By: TONY.A.S.S.
Date Posted: 04 April 2014 at 8:07pm
If you do continuous painting a proper spatter gun is a must. It wouldn't be hit or miss, what you get is a controlled spatter from very fine to very course and it's consistent. With a proper gun you get all the pressure you need for the feed without the air. Iwata is a good one to look at.

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Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 04 April 2014 at 11:38pm
Cheers Tony i will have a look, just found an Iwata spatter cap but i couldnt find a spcific spatter gun, ill keep looking.  I had another go today on another cab with the regulator before the gun and it helps, its still difficult to get the air flow precice as its so little air, i also get a bit more of a splurt when i first touch the trigger...

Been testing the horn and its sounding very nice, im using a different compression driver now, crossover is sorted, 3.6KHz 18dB/oct high pass with polaraty inverted gets the 2 drivers time aligned nicely, phase responce is very smooth though the crossover, the mid rolls off steeply at 4KHz so theres not much overlap, i tryed it on an eminence 3.5KHz 18dB high pass and it was very close to the active filter, about the same responce as an active 3.8KHz high pass.  It runs down to 400Hz fine and rolls off, quite happy so far.  Ill post some pics and plots tomorrow. 


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James Secker          facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk               www.soundgear.co.uk


Posted By: TONY.A.S.S.
Date Posted: 05 April 2014 at 12:42am
I should also say apart from the normal Devilbis top loading and Gravity Guns and Iwata, I also have Sata, also another top gun worth looking at. The best guns give you the best results. There is no need to struggle with finish.

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http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3" rel="nofollow - http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3


Posted By: T-Bone
Date Posted: 05 April 2014 at 5:05pm
Oh Man that's beautiful can wait to build some if you let us hear what you're hearing? Thanks God Bless You!Shocked

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BASS, how low can you go!


Posted By: Thomas Hosker
Date Posted: 21 April 2014 at 6:39pm
Any progress with this build mate?


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WWW.T8Audio.Com


Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 21 April 2014 at 8:44pm
Not really im affraid, i should have passive crossover components in a few days,   i finnished a ported version of the low mid that was for a 12v system,  i didnt like the sound of the ports so closed them and it sounded much better,  so that ended up similar to the celestion design but with a larger rear chamber, it ran lower than i expected but i didnt get a chance to take any outdoor measurements as it was windy yesterday and its gone to its new owner today, so ill have to build another. 


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James Secker          facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk               www.soundgear.co.uk


Posted By: boots-hifi
Date Posted: 21 April 2014 at 9:50pm
Originally posted by TONY.A.S.S. TONY.A.S.S. wrote:

If you do continuous painting a proper spatter gun is a must. It wouldn't be hit or miss, what you get is a controlled spatter from very fine to very course and it's consistent. With a proper gun you get all the pressure you need for the feed without the air. Iwata is a good one to look at.


Sorry to butt in but are you saying that you can buy specific guns to achive splatter coats or just a better quality gun that will make it easier with the fine adjustment between air flow and paint?


Posted By: AJordan
Date Posted: 21 April 2014 at 10:36pm
Google Pressure pot systems and you will see what he means! You might be able to do it with a HVLP setup which I think would be cheaper but I cant say for sure as I havnt tried it myself. I am sure Tony will know if its possible!


Posted By: TONY.A.S.S.
Date Posted: 22 April 2014 at 12:28am
The Guns are especially made to spatter. They have a control that cuts the air down from Max to nothing but because of the pressure pot, still pumps the paint out. This is when it spatters, and with this third control, you can vary the size of spatter you require. It's the only proper way to do it with control. These guns are no more expensive than a normal De Vilbis setup. All the major Brands do them.

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Posted By: bitSmasher
Date Posted: 22 April 2014 at 5:48am
Originally posted by Timebomb Timebomb wrote:

i finnished a ported version of the low mid that was for a 12v system
any info about this system? Interested to know what they're doing with batteries & amps, obviously off to a good start with an efficient box


Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 22 April 2014 at 5:21pm
Battery is a 4 cell LiFePo4 4200mAh , about 500g, amp is a vibe slick stereo 4, with 2 channels bridged into a 4 ohm celestion neo BN12-300s (about 2KG)which will give it about 200W, amp has a high pass set at about 70Hz and i made a little mono sum / 12dB per octave LPF from 256Hz so it rolls off gently to crossover to the mid at about 500Hz,  mid high is a celestion TF0818MR direct radiating and eminence APT150 on a passive high pass. 

Ill get some pictures.  Sounds pretty nice, tight and punchy, and seems weaghty and bassy though there is no real sub.  APT is the weak link, but there not that bad, quite listenable really just a little soft, they dont have the attack of a titainium diaphragm.   Output is quite impressive for the size and weaght of the thing,  i measured 112dB with a 0.6v input, and it should give about 12-13dB more than that in the low mid / upper bass,  i will have to borrow it back to take some proper measurements but it went back to bristol yesteday.   Weaghs 22Kg with everything, was 349x349x599mm, designed to fit on a bob bike trailer. 


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James Secker          facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk               www.soundgear.co.uk


Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 13 November 2015 at 12:53pm
That's interesting too, I'm building soundbikes as well, started with a HUGE one 21" / 2x12" / 2xF1 res 2 sh
2kwsub/2kwkick/250top/250Wtop hypex amps running directly of 4x36V litium series (+-785 V)
Plays so loud that it can't be turned up LOL


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www.facebook.com/babysoundsystem


Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 13 November 2015 at 1:11pm
Would be interested to see that Louis :)  sounds insane.

The next one will be a 4x12" reflex with BN12-300s again, as they are so light.  I have other things to get done first though.   


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James Secker          facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk               www.soundgear.co.uk


Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 13 November 2015 at 1:16pm
Sounds prety heavy, I was planning to do some tapped for my orbit 4s as you know, probably tham12 / tham15 style with a layout that stacks with tops (60x35 compatible)
Perfect coke-coloured hipster house system for copenhagen white asses, oh-so sodo sopa:-)



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www.facebook.com/babysoundsystem


Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 13 November 2015 at 1:21pm
Oh, and here's the sub for the bike, it's insanely loud, mouth plays into ground as a horn extension, works fine, chose this design because of ease of built and because the front plate can be changed to test different loading of ground below bike. The volume under the bike is weightless speaker:-)




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www.facebook.com/babysoundsystem


Posted By: snowflake
Date Posted: 13 November 2015 at 1:27pm
what driver are you using for the 21"?


Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 13 November 2015 at 1:31pm
bayma 21sw1600, sells pretty cheap, about 400 euros ea.
But now I unfortunately see that I could've had rcf lf21n551 at the same price, an insane driver, but now sure it sims as well in the tapped horn.


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www.facebook.com/babysoundsystem


Posted By: snowflake
Date Posted: 13 November 2015 at 2:17pm
I concluded the 18Sound 21NLW9601 was worth the extra money. I've drawn a design (similar to yours with one extra fold) but haven't built it yet.


Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 14 November 2015 at 12:58am
Yeah, my first designs had another fold too, to go real low, but it wasn't allowed to be that big:-(
looked a lot on that 18souns driver, but I don't know why it's so much more expensive than x551


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www.facebook.com/babysoundsystem



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