Tapped horn outdoor
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Category: Plans
Forum Name: Other plans
Forum Description: Discussion / Questions about all the other plans
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=87281
Printed Date: 20 April 2024 at 8:47am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.06 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Tapped horn outdoor
Posted By: polomex
Subject: Tapped horn outdoor
Date Posted: 17 June 2014 at 12:30pm
| Does a tapped horn works great outside? We want to build a stack of 8 mth 4654 and since most of our raves are outdoor during the summer, I want to make sure its a great choice instead of a folded horn like the Lab horn or SBH. |
Replies:
Posted By: T-Bone
Date Posted: 17 June 2014 at 12:44pm
I have a brand new PD186/1, laying around after my gig on Saturday I plan to build one MTH 4654 for sub duties for my almost finished BFM Omni 12 Tallboys. The MTH should move alot of air in smaller venues (200 venues) my Tallboy is a 3 way horn loaded cabs but i know the MTH's are a big cab to lug around but i need to house my 186 someplace LOL . . .
------------- BASS, how low can you go! |
Posted By: Teunos
Date Posted: 17 June 2014 at 1:08pm
|
I have 8 TH's loaded with 18's and a mate of mine also has 8. Surely they are not your average TH, but i think the behavior of TH's will be relatively the same for most designs. We did a test a few weeks ago with 16 TH's outside, and the bass was fenomenal, also from a good distance. It did not drop off like i've seen and heard BR's do. (Although i must admit that being a physics student, I still can't theoretically explain the differences sometimes perceived as throw, which is just a product of source SPL and directivity) Here is a pic of the test. Fully horn loaded system. Sound rejection to the side was immense, standing 5m in front of the stack or 5m to the side we measured a relative SPL difference of 35dB across the band , A weighted  , without any clever processing. http://s195.photobucket.com/user/teunvanderveeken/media/BoxTestVinkel31mei14-10_zps95628167.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  I think you will find 8 MTH4654 pretty capable, just don't expect it will do the same damage as inside when all cabs are placed in a corner. If you have the option however, always go for a central cluster for the bass and get the mids/highs up to proper height in the stereo Left right stacks.
------------- Best regards, Teun. |
Posted By: Xoc1
Date Posted: 17 June 2014 at 1:47pm
|
The directivity and throw are mostly due to stacking the bins 8 across. The bass must of been beaming like a laser! If you want to see a video of a TH outdoors search Youtube for 'TH18' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIgY99MDAqI This Guy built 4 of my TH18 cab design as part of a high school project.  |
Posted By: discosucks
Date Posted: 17 June 2014 at 2:00pm
| My cbe18s work much better outside than inside! |
Posted By: GekoMusic94
Date Posted: 18 June 2014 at 9:58am
|
Also my tapped horns works much better outside or in big rooms than in small rooms. ------------- https://soundcloud.com/dj-uber |
Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 18 July 2014 at 2:37am
Whow what are those bins? I've just been messing around with some sims not far from that with regards to the "open mouth" rather than the regular th "slot" opening |
Teunos wrote:Posted By: Joset
Date Posted: 22 August 2014 at 9:31am
|
Hi, can I have the plans for your 18" tapped horn designs? Do you have the plans for the jth 18 btw? How is your tapped horn compare to jth 18? thx. |
Posted By: AndyWave
Date Posted: 23 August 2014 at 2:01pm
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Hi tv00 Those bins are Teunos' own, little bit smaller version of my Miss Piggy, a 27Hz TH http://forum.speakerplans.com/1x18-tapped-horn_topic39552_page1.html Andy Edit I did an outdoor live music gig with my system last week. Did tune the subbass end with Pink Floyd's heartbeat at beginning of a record. As I know it starts from 25Hz. It really was sufficient with 2 pigs per side for 70 people  .Also they have some sort of directivity, more than equally sized reflex stack. And to Teun, can you reveal something about your mid cabinets, rough measurements maybe. Looks like 12" drivers. I'm interested as I'm running one or two 12" straight horns per side as needed. ------------- torturing electrons since ...... |
Posted By: crossed
Date Posted: 23 August 2014 at 8:15pm
|
I had 4 Cubos out at a fest a few weeks ago and they sounded decent in the dance area, but way off in the woods a good distance from the stack while, umm... ahemm... taking care of some business... I noticed they carried really far. I couldn't believe the bass that far away. Almost sounded better out in the woods. I'd like to make 4 more someday. |
Posted By: mini-mad
Date Posted: 23 August 2014 at 8:24pm
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...shame your in the US... im getting rid of my cubo15s ------------- If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down. |
Posted By: Teunos
Date Posted: 23 August 2014 at 8:48pm
Mids are indeed double 12''. Cabs are loaded with RCF L12P11WK, monster mids but also pretty heavy. The sims showed usable response to be between 200Hz up. When i measured them for the first time, they were almost flat from 200 to 900Hz. Horn is 40cm deep and it was designed to be used with 2 per side. This is the first measurement i did, no eq lowpass or anything applied. http://s195.photobucket.com/user/teunvanderveeken/media/Mh212_zpsec6e3bc5.png.html" rel="nofollow">  I cross them at 150Hz and 750Hz to the BMS coax and get great results like this, extremely clear mids with punch in the lower mids. Btw, i just upgraded my processor from the DCX to a Fir and allpass capable processor. Today i made some new settings. This is the measurement from the complete 5-way system, TH sub, BPH kick, the double 12 mids and then the BMS coax actively driven by 2 amp channels. Subs are high passed at 38Hz, which although a little high is more than enough for most music. +-45 degrees phase change between 50Hz and 20k. Never heard a system sound so clear before! http://s195.photobucket.com/user/teunvanderveeken/media/totale_zps4e356df6.png.html" rel="nofollow">  Mind though that this was made inside, with reflections from walls and everything, which explains the peaks and dips between below 300Hz. Can't seem to get that squiggle in the phase at 8k out of it no matter how hard i try... Edit: 300Hz instead of 3kHz...
------------- Best regards, Teun. |
Posted By: AndyWave
Date Posted: 24 August 2014 at 1:26pm
|
Thank you mr T. _Can't seem to get that squiggle in the phase at 8k out of it no matter how hard i try..._ could it be delay setting with your highs... Is your bms coax 2" or 1,4" ? Fir filters disappear really nice in mid high range. I won't lose my xilica, most likely I'll buy another one  Have you ever tried your sub stacks 2wide 4high per side laid on their sides? Like bigger stack of wsx. ------------- torturing electrons since ...... |
Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 24 August 2014 at 2:03pm
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Hmmm, are you sure the HF is in phase with the MF at the coax? Also, which crossover filters are you using there? ------------- Marjan Milosevic MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
Posted By: Teunos
Date Posted: 24 August 2014 at 9:31pm
Just typed a lengthy reply... and then it was gone .The BMS are a 2'' ferrite because i couldn't justify myself spending that much more for the neo's. Today i was able to get rid of the squiggle at 8k but it took about 6 or 7 AP2 filters to do so. By that time the phase response above 20k (which is the highest SMAART will measure) became horrible. I therefore stayed with the old settings which used only 2 AP2 filters and some delay to make the MF and HF in phase. @Marjan, yes i'm 100% sure the MF and HF are in phase. On the BMS i use solely FIR filters for crossovers. They are generated by EV irisnet and are based on Kaeser Bessel. They are basically fourier transforms of window functions. Therefore there is no real steepness like you have with Butterworth, LR etc. It's just a brickwall filter of which the steepness increases with number of coefficients and frequency of the filter. I use 256 coefficient FIR filters for the coax which at 5k9 is the equivalent of having a >100dB/octave filter, with a side lobe rejection of 90dB, so basically a brick wall with zero phase distortion  . ------------- Best regards, Teun. |
Posted By: Teunos
Date Posted: 24 August 2014 at 9:32pm
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@Andy, do you have the XP or XD range? ------------- Best regards, Teun. |
Posted By: Geigertron
Date Posted: 25 August 2014 at 8:06am
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Jth-18 plan is here. Not sure if anyone as built these in the uk? http://wizardaudio.hu/hasznos/hangfal%20tervek/bass/tapped%20horn/JTH18.jpg |
Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 25 August 2014 at 10:24am
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Whow Andy, that design looks sweet! I've been playing a around with doing some 21" tapped simulations (until my laptop crashed) I tried to gain low end & throw from doing a hyberbolic style flare to get a high exit angle like your design is having. the hyberbolic curve being near conical until the driver sitting right before the bend. Well it didn't seem to help the sims much compared to conical as I expected. @Xilica xp4080; The two we have are quite noisy, -why? My highs are very sensitive indeed, as I'm using bms 4540nd and I love them! When I connect only power to the filter and xlr to high amp i get that f***** noise:-( @Teuonos: Sounds like an awfull lot of processing you're adding. I never had much succes with fir filtering, they seemed to cut the entire signal! -Perhaps I shoul try some more. |
Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 25 August 2014 at 10:30am
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I need to learn how to make FIR filters. Any basic advice you can share on where do i start? Which software to use and so on. I hope others will benefit that too. ------------- Marjan Milosevic MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 25 August 2014 at 10:40am
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xilica filters have them, so do other filters |
Posted By: Strawberry Jam Sound
Date Posted: 06 March 2017 at 1:08pm
| Hey Teunos, would you be at all up for sharing your plans for those boxes? they sound exactly like what we've been wanting to build |
Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 06 March 2017 at 8:36pm
This is funny, I have the opposite experience with the very same boxes (I bought them:-) I get much better directivity (throw) with flhs & bphs than with my CBe-18s, they seem to die at the distance, but the CBe-18s work much better inside than outside! So I use them for that mainly... ------------- www.facebook.com/babysoundsystem |
Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 06 March 2017 at 9:21pm
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In a decent tapped horn you gain forward directivity as the stack gets larger, slightly more so than reflex and slightly less than FLH. However the lower overall harmonic distortion levels due to reduced excursion or horn anomalies can make them seem quieter at longer distances. If you actually measure the SPL level and make sure the boxes are matched for output and response at 1m, you'd likely find that the tapped horn and the 'other' sub are very close at distance. |
Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 07 March 2017 at 9:37am
|
Yes it's funny and very interesting how subwoofers feels different: BR: Often sound one-note even the most expensive and when they play loud they hurt like someone grabs my guts and shake them hard. Flh & Bph: Feels like they're shaking all of the air in the room, they often appear louder at a small distance than up front, they never hurt my guts like BR. At the distance the impuls hits me tight in the guts. Tapped horns: appear louder up close and have great front to rear cancellation unlike BR that are just disastrous in this aspect. But they seem to vanish at the distance. ------------- www.facebook.com/babysoundsystem |