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Pd 1850 tuned lower?

Printed From: Speakerplans.com
Category: Plans
Forum Name: 1850 and 186 horns
Forum Description: Discussion / Questions about the 1850 and 186 horns
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=87550
Printed Date: 29 March 2024 at 7:46am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.06 - https://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Pd 1850 tuned lower?
Posted By: prestigedjsdk
Subject: Pd 1850 tuned lower?
Date Posted: 08 July 2014 at 7:13am
Hi all. Is it possible to redesign and tune the 1850 horn lower så i will hit 40-30ish? I think 50 is way too high. Hope you guys can help because the saw is ready to make some dust.



Replies:
Posted By: Keen
Date Posted: 08 July 2014 at 7:15am
build 4 x Startec SBH


Posted By: prestigedjsdk
Date Posted: 08 July 2014 at 8:13am
Do you have a link for the plan for those? Will they work with pd.1850s? I am planing on a rig with 2 subs pr side and a crown ma5000vz to run them. What kind of sound could i make with that?


Posted By: prestigedjsdk
Date Posted: 08 July 2014 at 8:23am
Just saw the started sbh.
I forgot to mention that these speakers are gonna be used for mobile djing, there for having 4 3meter long subs is not an option



Posted By: Keen
Date Posted: 08 July 2014 at 8:45am
then you want the cubo 18 Thumbs Up


Posted By: prestigedjsdk
Date Posted: 08 July 2014 at 8:50am
cubo 18 for pd1850 is shit as a sub http://www.freespeakerplans.com/bass-cabinets/11-cubo-18 it only works from 85hz to 145hz that is not what i call a sub Cry


Posted By: Keen
Date Posted: 08 July 2014 at 8:54am
nah man, she'll be right. they'll go low enough for mobile disco Wink


Posted By: prestigedjsdk
Date Posted: 08 July 2014 at 8:58am
I allready have 2 cubo 18 ext. And they dont hit the low hz unless i eq the hell out of them. And that is not good at all. But yes there is a lot of spl just not al much musical spl


Posted By: prestigedjsdk
Date Posted: 08 July 2014 at 9:18am
i was looking at mach slingshot ms 118 are they really the best use for at compact low pd1850 sub?


Posted By: patryk1305
Date Posted: 08 July 2014 at 9:50am
You must remember that for a true horn to hit low, it has to be pretty long. 


Posted By: ape3435
Date Posted: 08 July 2014 at 10:01am
Originally posted by prestigedjsdk prestigedjsdk wrote:

Hi all. Is it possible to redesign and tune the 1850 horn lower så i will hit 40-30ish? I think 50 is way too high. Hope you guys can help because the saw is ready to make some dust.


Yes you can, but it will end up looking like a bass reflex


Posted By: prestigedjsdk
Date Posted: 08 July 2014 at 10:10am
Do you have any data on a double pd1850 reflex?


Posted By: boots-hifi
Date Posted: 08 July 2014 at 3:05pm
Originally posted by prestigedjsdk prestigedjsdk wrote:

cubo 18 for pd1850 is shit as a sub <font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, Geneva, sans-serif"><span style="line-height: 14px;">http://www.freespeakerplans.com/bass-cabinets/11-cubo-18 it only works from 85hz to 145hz that is not what i call a sub <img src="smileys/smiley19.gif" alt="Cry" title="Cry" /></span>


You clearly havent got a clue or are rather miss informed. I ran 8185 loaded cubo's built by bee from 38-80hz and they destroyed many bigger boxes ive had. 1850 loaded cubo's would rock a mobile rig and they don't benifit from group coupling is a bonus too.


Posted By: prestigedjsdk
Date Posted: 08 July 2014 at 4:06pm
If you look at the diagram with the void v1000 which is almost identical to the pd 1850 ts. You will see that it starts to deliver its sound at 110hz and up. Which is not sub duty, its peak is at 125hz  an lower than 85hz there is no power in it really. at 45hz it is 4 db´s lower then 18lw1400. How is that better then everything else?
http://www.freespeakerplans.com/bass-cabinets/11-cubo-18


Posted By: boots-hifi
Date Posted: 09 July 2014 at 12:01am
I dont know where that plot comes from maybe the Sun or the Mirror but in the real world if you run a cubo past 120hz it will honk and sound awfull.


Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 09 July 2014 at 3:47pm
Originally posted by prestigedjsdk prestigedjsdk wrote:

cubo 18 for pd1850 is shit as a sub http://www.freespeakerplans.com/bass-cabinets/11-cubo-18 it only works from 85hz to 145hz that is not what i call a sub Cry
 
sorry but this is rubbish, the cubo extended loaded with the 1850 or the 1852, drop to 35hz and are good up to 90ish past 100 and they get a bit honky. (driver magnet in horn)
 
(driver magnet in chamber)they play to 120hz but only drop to 40hz.... its a trade off....
 
ps.... the graph showing a driver only playing to 85hz was a v1000'sWink, and were from the 3rd prototype version, not the published version. The published version is even better.....


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https://www.elements-audio.com


Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 09 July 2014 at 3:55pm
Originally posted by prestigedjsdk prestigedjsdk wrote:

If you look at the diagram with the void v1000 which is almost identical to the pd 1850 ts. You will see that it starts to deliver its sound at 110hz and up. Which is not sub duty, its peak is at 125hz  an lower than 85hz there is no power in it really. at 45hz it is 4 db´s lower then 18lw1400. How is that better then everything else?
http://www.freespeakerplans.com/bass-cabinets/11-cubo-18
 
 
the v1000, and pd1850 ts parameters are not even close.....
this is a great example of why you should take specs with a pinch of salt, and actually test drivers and use your ears, and full rta them....


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https://www.elements-audio.com


Posted By: TONY.A.S.S.
Date Posted: 09 July 2014 at 3:58pm
Surely, the Horn is the Horn and there is not much you can do to lower frequency, apart from make the Horn a lot larger (with the given speaker). It might be confusion over terminology, but you can only tune a reflex enclosure.

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http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3" rel="nofollow - http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3


Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 09 July 2014 at 4:12pm

PD1850          vs            Void V1000


Fs 33.15 Hz                    Fs 34.53 Hz

Re 5.22 Ω                       Re 5.5 Ω

Qms 15.42                     Qms 7.63

Qes 0.24                         Qes 0.22

Qts 0.24                          Qts 0.215

Le 1.33 mh                     Le 1.18mh

L2 2.45 mh                     L2 2.20mh

R2 5.3 Ω                         R2 !!!!!!!

Vas 203.84 litres            Vas 201.7 litres

Mms 215.24 g                 Mms 226.23g

Sd 1164.16 cm2             Sd 1230 cm2

Cms 107 µm/N              Cms 93.89 µm/N

BL 30.99 T/m                BL 34.8 T/m

Xmax 11.05 mm           Xmax 10.5 mm

Vd 1.28 litres                Vd !!!!!!!

Ref. Efficiency 2.88%   Ref. Efficiency 3.62%



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https://www.elements-audio.com


Posted By: corell
Date Posted: 09 July 2014 at 5:40pm
are these specs measured by you ben?


Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 09 July 2014 at 5:50pm
both taken from data provided by pd and void....

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https://www.elements-audio.com


Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 09 July 2014 at 5:52pm
Originally posted by prestigedjsdk prestigedjsdk wrote:

Hi all. Is it possible to redesign and tune the 1850 horn lower så i will hit 40-30ish? I think 50 is way too high. Hope you guys can help because the saw is ready to make some dust.
 
longer horn and horm mouth = lower response. but driver may not be able to take it.... would need to sim... then build and measure...
 
increasing horn length to 3 meters, the cab drops to 35hz, but the response is very peaky. To smooth out response more changes are needed.


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https://www.elements-audio.com


Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 09 July 2014 at 6:00pm
6 cabs in a stack, modified 1850 horn..... 3.2 meter horn..... with changes to horn and change of driver....
 
http://s280.photobucket.com/user/djbenwells/media/1850hornmodded_zps7fafedc6.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">


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https://www.elements-audio.com


Posted By: patryk1305
Date Posted: 09 July 2014 at 6:30pm
Originally posted by bee bee wrote:

PD1850          vs            Void V1000


Fs 33.15 Hz                    Fs 35 Hz

Re 5.22 Ω                       Re 5.3 Ω

Qms 15.42                     Qms 5.779

Qes 0.24                         Qes 0.341

Qts 0.24                          Qts 0.322

Le 1.33 mh                     Le 2.49 mh

L2 2.45 mh                     L2 !!!!!!!

R2 5.3 Ω                         R2 !!!!!!!

Vas 203.84 litres            Vas 289.5 litres

Mms 215.24 g                 Mms 196 g

Sd 1164.16 cm2             Sd 1158 cm2

Cms 107 µm/N              Cms 152 µm/N

BL 30.99 T/m                BL 23.63 T/m

Xmax 11.05 mm           Xmax 12.95 mm

Vd 1.28 litres                Vd !!!!!!!

Ref. Efficiency 2.88%   Ref. Efficiency 2.21%


Void Specs are not correct or is it just me? Wacko


Posted By: Mark James
Date Posted: 09 July 2014 at 6:52pm
errrr bl on the void is closer to 34.88 i believe and the fs is 34 point something hz and is the pd1850 realy got a qms of 15+???? got to be a typo surely?

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me so horny me love you long throw
horn loaded for her pleasure


Posted By: prestigedjsdk
Date Posted: 09 July 2014 at 6:56pm
Well I have to apologies to you all.
I HAVE the cubo 18 ext with pd 1850´s in them.
But i did not think they went down deep enough. Lots of spl but not very deep.
And I know that "tuning"/modifying a horn is making a completely new box, but what i meant was if I could get the same kind of sol and throw from the pd´s just lower.
But what i have found this afternoon is that error was in amp rack.
I drove the 2 cubo´s with a brigded crown ma 2400 which should enough power for them, and I have asked on other (danish) forums who said power would not change the sound only volume.
BUT today i installed my newly bought crown ma5000vz instead, I only drove the 2 cubos in stereo mode 3/4 on the throttle knobs and I did not even get to 0 db on the mixer because the sound was REALLY loud. This test was only done i my garage so it is not that reliable, BUT I have however done that test to all my speakers system, just for test and so, but this was clearly the loudest setup I have ever had. Not as deep as my old 4order bandpass double 18´s but the spl on the whole scale more then makes good for that. So I guess the saw is gonna make another couple of cubo´s soon and then I have 2 more blown pd 1850 which need new cardboard and then I am ready to make some noise.
Should i go stereo or parallel mono then on the crown?
But I am sorry for my earlier posts, I did not think the bigger amp would that much difference.


Posted By: prestigedjsdk
Date Posted: 09 July 2014 at 7:00pm
a stack of 6 1850 horns is WAY overkill for my events


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 09 July 2014 at 7:12pm
if you only want singles a side, and you're not happy with cubo extendeds with pd1850s, then you want reflex boxes with modern drivers in them probably. pd1850 is not what you need it seems.


Posted By: Mark James
Date Posted: 09 July 2014 at 7:26pm
might not be the extra power you might ave made a cabling error [usualy you would wire the cable differently when running in sterio channels and in bridge] or the smaller amp may have a fault you sure one cab wasnt out of phase with the other when you bridged? its a common mistake :P glad your getting it sorted tho :-]

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me so horny me love you long throw
horn loaded for her pleasure


Posted By: prestigedjsdk
Date Posted: 09 July 2014 at 7:35pm
yes i am shire there was no phase error, testet or several times. Well the idéer was only having one cab a side. but the cubos are not bigger than most reflex boxes so i will go with 2 cubos a side soon.

Any comments on parallel mono go stereo mode? 
Seems parallel mono should give a lot more power? 
How much watt is the limit in pd 1850 cubo extended? 
Are there any diffent ways of stacking 2 a side that works better?


Posted By: Geigertron
Date Posted: 09 July 2014 at 10:36pm
If the 1850's are 8 ohm then prob parallel mono is best, don't forget to use a LPF
http://www.crownaudio.com/media/pdf/legacy/103169.pdf

1850's can soak up at least 1.5k

I'm thinking of building the jth-18 at some point, have not had a chance to hear a cubo yet...


Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 09 July 2014 at 11:47pm
Originally posted by Mark James Mark James wrote:

errrr bl on the void is closer to 34.88 i believe and the fs is 34 point something hz and is the pd1850 realy got a qms of 15+???? got to be a typo surely?
 
ooops sorry posted specs for the v1200.... changed.... specs still differ... qms of 1850 is as of the pd website, could be a typo...


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https://www.elements-audio.com


Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 09 July 2014 at 11:56pm
Originally posted by prestigedjsdk prestigedjsdk wrote:

yes i am shire there was no phase error, testet or several times. Well the idéer was only having one cab a side. but the cubos are not bigger than most reflex boxes so i will go with 2 cubos a side soon.

Any comments on parallel mono go stereo mode? 
Seems parallel mono should give a lot more power? 
How much watt is the limit in pd 1850 cubo extended? 
Are there any diffent ways of stacking 2 a side that works better?
 
the best I found was horn on floor, there was no gain by coupling the mouths, glad you got the cubos making proper noise....


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https://www.elements-audio.com


Posted By: patryk1305
Date Posted: 10 July 2014 at 12:19am
Originally posted by bee bee wrote:

Originally posted by Mark James Mark James wrote:

errrr bl on the void is closer to 34.88 i believe and the fs is 34 point something hz and is the pd1850 realy got a qms of 15+???? got to be a typo surely?

 
ooops sorry posted specs for the v1200.... changed.... specs still differ... qms of 1850 is as of the pd website, could be a typo...


I would say there is no significant difference in spec apart from the qms.


Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 10 July 2014 at 12:36am
Originally posted by patryk1305 patryk1305 wrote:

Originally posted by bee bee wrote:

Originally posted by Mark James Mark James wrote:

errrr bl on the void is closer to 34.88 i believe and the fs is 34 point something hz and is the pd1850 realy got a qms of 15+???? got to be a typo surely?

 
ooops sorry posted specs for the v1200.... changed.... specs still differ... qms of 1850 is as of the pd website, could be a typo...


I would say there is no significant difference in spec apart from the qms.
 
how do you work that out, specs differ a lot.... there are cabs I would use the v1000 over the 1850 and vice versa.....


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https://www.elements-audio.com


Posted By: Mark James
Date Posted: 10 July 2014 at 11:17am
they are pretty similar but as bee said there are some apps where one as the edge usualy if one is good in a cab to the other would be providing it fits USUALY
if thats te case i would suggest getting the smaller amp checked out and check te cables you used for bridge as i said they should not be wired te same as for normal operation [im sure te ma do bridge on both channel + pins no?]


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me so horny me love you long throw
horn loaded for her pleasure


Posted By: MarcoAudio
Date Posted: 04 September 2020 at 2:22pm
D.I.S.C.O.....2 1850 Will be sufficient for disco work.


Posted By: djeddie
Date Posted: 04 September 2020 at 8:02pm
Originally posted by MarcoAudio MarcoAudio wrote:

D.I.S.C.O.....2 1850 Will be sufficient for disco work.


You do realise the last post, before yours, was from more than six years ago?


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Chas n Dave : it's like Drum and Bass but with beards.             E=mc² ±3dB


Posted By: MarcoAudio
Date Posted: 22 October 2020 at 3:17pm
Yeh.... I like to get the last word Wink



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