my new 12" horn
Printed From: Speakerplans.com
Category: Plans
Forum Name: New Projects Forum
Forum Description: Forum for new speakerplans projects, in memory of Tony Wilkes, 1953 - 2014
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=88737
Printed Date: 26 March 2026 at 11:31pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.08 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: my new 12" horn
Posted By: bee
Subject: my new 12" horn
Date Posted: 19 September 2014 at 7:00pm
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My new 12" horn still tweeking, what do you guys think so far..... http://s280.photobucket.com/user/djbenwells/media/Mobile%20Uploads/DSC_0003_zps2a17be83.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  http://s280.photobucket.com/user/djbenwells/media/Mobile%20Uploads/DSC_0005_zps6dc87246.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  http://s280.photobucket.com/user/djbenwells/media/Mobile%20Uploads/DSC_0007_zps626575b0.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  http://s280.photobucket.com/user/djbenwells/media/Mobile%20Uploads/DSC_0006_zpsc3ee1cf5.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  http://s280.photobucket.com/user/djbenwells/media/Mobile%20Uploads/DSC_0008_zps28e5e1ed.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  1w @ 1m with 1/3rd octave smoothing, eq added to hf only... hf driver bms 4550 on faital horn, only used this for listening, not decided on final choice for hf.... green is 12" horn, yellow is hf, red is reading of both. high pass on the 12" set at 150hz xover to hf at 1260khz. http://s280.photobucket.com/user/djbenwells/media/Mobile%20Uploads/DSC_0009_zpsdf86d191.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  1w @ 1m no smoothing, just raw response plot of the 12" horn only..... the phase bung is still in bear wood as im still tweeking finished bung will be colour matched to horn....
------------- https://www.elements-audio.com |
Replies:
Posted By: DMorison
Date Posted: 19 September 2014 at 7:29pm
Looking good, must've taken a lot of work getting to that point.  Did you have to do much trial & error or were you able to get reasonably close straight from the drawing board?David.
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Posted By: Shortrope
Date Posted: 19 September 2014 at 7:30pm
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Oooo lovely!! ------------- My Tinnitus is coming along nicely!! |
Posted By: KidCreole
Date Posted: 19 September 2014 at 7:35pm
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Nice. Not to be negative but have you done horizontal dispersion tests yet? It will look good on axis but from my experience you may have problems with horizontal dispersion ------------- Mykey Wattco |
Posted By: discosucks
Date Posted: 19 September 2014 at 9:45pm
| nice!! |
Posted By: smoore
Date Posted: 19 September 2014 at 11:16pm
| Ooooohwee thats pretty damn flat! Have you managed to do a test without the phase bung? And have you tried any other phase bungs? Or sticking with 'if it works don't fix it' |
Posted By: smoore
Date Posted: 19 September 2014 at 11:17pm
| Also any chance of some pictures of the rear of the phase bung? And howr you going to fix it in place in a final design? Haha im full of questions sorry |
Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 19 September 2014 at 11:43pm
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3 years to get to this point, it's a narrow dispersion cab, will need 2 per stack I've taken off angle plots, but need to get them taken properly. ------------- https://www.elements-audio.com |
Posted By: Sound Chippy
Date Posted: 20 September 2014 at 12:32am
| Ahhh, So nice to see some new projects on S.P. Inspiring stuff. As always great workmanship Bee. What 12" are you planing to use with the phase bung? And is that the XT1086 on the 4550? :) |
Posted By: Keen
Date Posted: 20 September 2014 at 1:54am
Haven't read the thread yet but was recently wondering where this work was at. Can't wait to have a read bee 
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Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 20 September 2014 at 2:16am
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The horn is the faital pro lth102, with a bms 4550 comp, this is not the chosen horn just one I had for testing, need to finish doing full polar plots to get correct angle needed for hf. The lth102 is there abouts correct... I'm planning on making my own hf horn. ------------- https://www.elements-audio.com |
Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 20 September 2014 at 2:21am
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At smoore yes the bung and cone were designed to work with the driver and horn. I first made the back bowl, then measured bowl with driver with of different baffle throat sizes, then once I was happy, made the back part to the phase bung. Once I was getting a rta reading I liked. I set about making the horn. Then the cone last . At this stage the horn bung and cone were finally shaved filled and tweaked till I was happy. Currently there is a dip around 148hz which is not there when measured with out bung. So I'm looking into what is causing it. It's only a dip of 3.2db but I want it right...
spelling... lol ------------- https://www.elements-audio.com |
Posted By: smoore
Date Posted: 20 September 2014 at 3:52am
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What do you mean by the 'cone' ? You say you shaved, filled and tweaked the Cone and the bung?
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Posted By: fat_brstd
Date Posted: 20 September 2014 at 3:53am
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very nice, out of interest what driver is it made for and will it work with PD123ER? ------------- Melbournes Rootical Warrior Roots - Dub - Steppers http://www.facebook.com/adrians.wall" rel="nofollow - facebook page |
Posted By: T-Bone
Date Posted: 20 September 2014 at 6:56am
Nice work Bee, 3 yrs whoa wish someone would design a small 6.5" mid horn just to compliment the design further? Anyone . . . (PD605) ------------- BASS, how low can you go! |
Posted By: TONY.A.S.S.
Date Posted: 20 September 2014 at 10:24am
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Ben, I wouldn't normally comment on other peoples work other than to say it's good, and your work is always good. The first thing I noticed was the break in the horizontal profile. People usually do this with wood when making cabs because they prefer it to bending. However, I'm not sure whether it would need a break at all and might benefit from the smoother transition of a curve to the required dispersion angle. As you are making the mould, this would be easy enough to do. Keep up the good work. ------------- http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3" rel="nofollow - http://www.facebook.com/tony.rossell.3 |
Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 20 September 2014 at 10:39am
I have already, the 6.5 inch was the testing phase years ago, I've posted pics before of it. ------------- https://www.elements-audio.com |
T-Bone wrote:Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 20 September 2014 at 10:42am
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Cheers for all the advice guys, I'll take the line break out and re rta tony, ------------- https://www.elements-audio.com |
Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 20 September 2014 at 10:44am
It's designed around one driver, but the back part of the phase bung can be changed and a new one made to fit any driver. I would need to design one for the pd123 driver. And run some tests ------------- https://www.elements-audio.com |
Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 20 September 2014 at 1:21pm
the phase bung is assembled in 2 parts, the bung which sits in the driver, the cone which is what you see when looking at the horn. shaved and tweaked filled, I mean cut more wood away, shaped bung better to get a better tra response.. ------------- https://www.elements-audio.com |
Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 20 September 2014 at 1:25pm
all my design work and learning was done based around a 6.5" horn, cheaper to build and make mistakes with than a horn with 3 x the materials. below is a pic of the 6.5" version. http://s280.photobucket.com/user/djbenwells/media/random%20pics/IMG_1281_zps363434c0.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  this was an early version, that changed a fair bit, from this pic. ill take pic of the current 6.5" when I get five minutes ------------- https://www.elements-audio.com |
Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 20 September 2014 at 1:29pm
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this is a pic of an phase bung back part... this was made for a different horn. ill take a pic of the current one for this horn when I get five minutes.... http://s280.photobucket.com/user/djbenwells/media/12%20inch%20phase%20bung/IMG_1371_zps589d5f6f.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  the original was turned on a wood lathe, then a cast in rubber silicone was made, and a pouring resin was used to create the finished part... ------------- https://www.elements-audio.com |
Posted By: T-Bone
Date Posted: 20 September 2014 at 1:55pm
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Nice is there alternate drivers that will work that are available to US DIY'ers? Are these available like plans for us here in speakerplans.com? Just curious? ------------- BASS, how low can you go! |
Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 20 September 2014 at 8:53pm
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No no free plan sorry too much money spent on r and d. Yes I should be able to make bung for any driver. But as of yet I'm still tweeking this one. ------------- https://www.elements-audio.com |
Posted By: smoore
Date Posted: 21 September 2014 at 12:44am
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Beautiful. And the rubber silicone is your master mould then? Do you use the same method for the horn shape? Shaped from wood and then silicone to get the mould shape? Congrats on the finished product my friend looks very tasty. Estimates on when these will be available? Or on demo?
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Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 21 September 2014 at 1:46am
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No the rubber latex cost a fortune. It's ok for small moulds. The main horn mould is from fiberglass... ------------- https://www.elements-audio.com |
Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 13 October 2014 at 9:52am
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Impressive that the 12" plays so high, much higher than floods, how's the off-axis response? Speaking of molds: Did no one here experiment with 3d printing for molds / protots? It's cheap, but takes a little time. ------------- www.facebook.com/babysoundsystem |
Posted By: martinsson
Date Posted: 15 October 2014 at 9:27am
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Seriously impressive! I can't help but imagine a coaxial mounting of the HF section all housed in a compact trapetzoidial box with a THAM18 underneath, yepp, got that in ther aswell :) a result like this almost demands, for the good of all mankind, to be modeled in CAD and published in common format for 3D printing :) ------------- Swedish Pro-fi diy-nerd - http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/" rel="nofollow - http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/ |
Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 15 October 2014 at 10:03am
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Whow! Martinsson I love your style!!! -Did you just read my mind? Do you think about making the hf in the plug? I had that idea for long, mykey & F1 (tannoy) did this. The tiny & powerful bms 4540nd & 4538 are perfectly suited for this. I was just looking at your tham18 folding when I was notified about your post! I consider to sim if the folding is a gain for tham12, could be combined with Tony Wilkes fth 12f extension of the design, perhaps even modded to have a slightly longer horn path. I have had 4 pcs rcf lf12n401 I've been posting on here about 3d printing the last few days, I have access to a printer, the owner really wants it to be used, it's an expensve machine to have standing around, -it has to do some work! Are you far from Copenhagen? -You're welcome to drop by anytime, I'm drowning in speakers:-( -Sliding slightly off-topic sorry. ------------- www.facebook.com/babysoundsystem |
Posted By: SvempaPrim
Date Posted: 15 October 2014 at 7:08pm
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Dont think its possible to squeeze a big enough horn and compression driver in to that phase plug. Just not enough surface area to play down to 1200hz. Unless you just mount the horn in front of the plug. tv00 - Stockholm here, i would love coming down to copenhagen for some 3d printing business! Whats the hourly rate for printing? |
Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 15 October 2014 at 10:20pm
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thanks guys, currently im designing a new hf horn to go with this 12" one, currently it looks like its going above the horn, but both hf and 12" horn will meet as one.... Ill keep you posted.... ------------- https://www.elements-audio.com |
Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 15 October 2014 at 10:21pm
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Ive sorted out the dip at 150hz and the slight peak at 180hz too..... ------------- https://www.elements-audio.com |
Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 15 October 2014 at 10:56pm
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If the HF horn is a 2" throat and matches the dispersion pattern of the mid bass ill be extremely interested in taking a closer look for use in a long throw box... ------------- “The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better” |
Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 15 October 2014 at 11:05pm
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csg, a good friend of mine also asked for a 2"... ill knock one up, happy to drop it off for you to play once its done.... Be good to compare my measurement's to yours.... ------------- https://www.elements-audio.com |
Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 15 October 2014 at 11:13pm
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would be delighted to do so. The more i use the 4592, the more i like them... ------------- “The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better” |
Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 15 October 2014 at 11:14pm
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they are by far the finest 2" comps ive heard.... and dam loud...... ------------- https://www.elements-audio.com |
Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 16 October 2014 at 9:35am
Printing is free or the price of plastic, within some limitations. Denmark is drowning in these machines now! You're more than welcome here in Copenhagen! It's always great to have someone to share interests with. Perhaps we should make the first unofficial scandinavian speakerconference:-) @plughorn: No, it can't be done at 1200hz, but from what I understand he wishes to use a 6,5" above the horn. But if he was tu use a compression driver like you're saying I think I would be really nice having the crossover at 3 khz (like tms) or as high as possible, this means a 1/4 wave length of approx: 320(m/s)/3000(hz) = 10 cm More possible. In the case of the tms the crossover that works for me is up at 4200hz, I can't believe it! 320/4200=7,6 cm Muc more possible Take a look at the F1 boxes crossing at 7khz, I don't think they need a very big horn. Mykey did a nice horn in plug and look at this one F1 did for tannoy:  ------------- www.facebook.com/babysoundsystem |
Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 16 October 2014 at 9:45am
I totally agree, the best 2" driver I've ever heard, It doesn't rip my ears! The dedicated mid diaphragm has a really nice sound. I've been hating 2" & loving tms & the like until this driver came around. But why would you want to use it above that 12" horn? To get more power? The 12" horn seems so well designed that theres no reason to cut low enough to that 2" driver. You could probably even get by with the the 1" driver, which even can be incorporates into the plug. I love that 1" too, use them in my tms, they're the ones called 4538/4540 when alone. ------------- www.facebook.com/babysoundsystem |
Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 16 October 2014 at 9:57am
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tv00, yes agreed, its horses for courses, a 1" works perfect with the horn xover is between 1 and 2khz, but others don't like the sound of a 12" playing past 1khz, this is were the bms 2" comes into its own. The second thing to look at is spl.... this 12" is very very loud, so a 2" will keep up better than a 1".... after 4 years of design on this horn, there is nothing to loose but a lot to gain by doing a 2" and a 1" version and running some tests.... there should be enough room to put a 1" horn on a bung like above, again would need to build one and see..... ------------- https://www.elements-audio.com |
Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 16 October 2014 at 10:05am
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Ok, I would have to hear that horn, hard to see what it sounds like from the spl curve. how is the beamwidth? I would prefer if it played to 3khz, not crossing in the midrange. Isn't it a lot of work with the plug if cutting at 1 khz? The 10" tms horn goes all the way to 4khz, and that's exactly what makes it so nice; point source all over the vocal/mid rabge from 250-4000 hz, an amazing achievement. ------------- www.facebook.com/babysoundsystem |
Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 16 October 2014 at 10:29am
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Cut the 4592 at 700-750hz and lose the plug. ------------- Marjan Milosevic MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
Posted By: VentureSound
Date Posted: 16 October 2014 at 5:09pm
...and then add another 12"!!
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Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 16 October 2014 at 7:29pm
i've been in copenhagen all week too. my girlfriend's family live here so we visit sometimes. leaving for home again tomorrow morning, but next time i must see who to say hello to. |
Posted By: soundchippy
Date Posted: 16 October 2014 at 9:27pm
| @Bee...Have you got plots of the horn without the phase plug vs with? |
Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 16 October 2014 at 11:35pm
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@soundchippy, yes ill post up for you. @tv00 its nice from my point of view that people are seeing options to suit there needs / tastes. the tms horn was one of my favourite horns... @ venture sounds, this is louder with 1 driver than an mt122.... 2x 12's would be crazy spl.... correct if crossing 800hz, there is no real need for the bung... the dispersion is very directional, more narrow than wide.... I still need to do some polar plots, will get these done asap, this will help out with correct hf horn... ------------- https://www.elements-audio.com |
Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 16 October 2014 at 11:51pm
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Removing the bung would completely change the horn characteristics won't it? I mean usually the plug is a calculated part of the horn, S1,2,3,4,5...1000 are tne cross areas Removing the bung will change a lot, mouth area would be the same, but all the rest would be a completely different history.. @Cravings: You're more than welcome here, come see some of our sounds & projects, all speakerenthusiasts unite:-) We're spread all over, meeting is fun, sometimes even the beginning of new collaborations. Competing can be fun too, but tend to end up in argumentation  ------------- www.facebook.com/babysoundsystem |
Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 17 October 2014 at 12:02am
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@tv00 kind of.... the bung only really effects frequency's shorter in wavelength than the bung. so based on bung length, removing it wont effect anything under 900hz.... and if it does the difference is tiny... ill upload pic of horn reading with out bung.... ------------- https://www.elements-audio.com |