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Bull-Nosed Horn Project

Printed From: Speakerplans.com
Category: Plans
Forum Name: New Projects Forum
Forum Description: Forum for new speakerplans projects, in memory of Tony Wilkes, 1953 - 2014
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=88914
Printed Date: 20 April 2024 at 8:08pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.06 - https://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Bull-Nosed Horn Project
Posted By: _djk_
Subject: Bull-Nosed Horn Project
Date Posted: 03 October 2014 at 9:39am
Hi-Fi
 
http://s56.photobucket.com/user/dkleitsch/media/BullNosedHorn_zpsafa42924.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
 
 BMS Co-Ax, PPSL with four 8's, vented to 35hz with a Q=2 filter at 35hz.


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djk



Replies:
Posted By: odc04r
Date Posted: 03 October 2014 at 10:59am
Look's interesting, tidy woodwork on the horn. Very different.


Posted By: burningbush
Date Posted: 03 October 2014 at 11:01am
Oh yesss!
Now we are talking.  Looks great, how are the 4x8" loaded?


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music is the message


Posted By: burningbush
Date Posted: 03 October 2014 at 11:02am
The eliptical hf waveguide must have taken a while, how do you do that on a lathe?


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music is the message


Posted By: studio45
Date Posted: 03 October 2014 at 1:15pm
There are more photos on the Photobucket page, Looks like the 8's go inside the curved part of the bass horn on a sub-assembly. Looks great, bet it sounds great too :)

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Studio45 - Repairs & Building Commotion Soundsystem -Mobile PA


Posted By: _djk_
Date Posted: 03 October 2014 at 11:26pm
"how do you do that on a lathe?"
 
The ellipses are done on a CNC, glued up with dowel pins, and then the CNC steps are roughed out with a round file, and finish sanded with sandpaper glued to a dowl stick. It is time consuming.
 
"Looks great, bet it sounds great too :) "
 
The grille on the HF will wrap around, on the LF it will go back in a deep 'V'.
 
It has so much less distortion than a single 15 that it's not funny. It sounds like it goes lower, although it doesn't measure any different in the bottom octave (as far as amplitude goes).
 


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djk


Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 04 October 2014 at 12:06am
Looks great DJK!  Really like the extra thick laminateed curve, bet thats solid as a rock.


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James Secker          facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk               www.soundgear.co.uk


Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 04 October 2014 at 12:23am
very nice job on the curved panel...

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https://www.elements-audio.com


Posted By: _djk_
Date Posted: 04 November 2014 at 9:06am
Nasty phone photo (with grills):
 
http://s56.photobucket.com/user/dkleitsch/media/20141009_160448_zpsbc12a61d.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
 
They look and sound great!


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djk


Posted By: R Mogale
Date Posted: 04 November 2014 at 11:11am
Is this you work Dennis.



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Only love will set us free



Posted By: MattStolton
Date Posted: 04 November 2014 at 1:00pm
I thought that the great and the good had a problem with the BMS co-ax drivers - 3rd order harmonics or summit'.

How can you do a super low distortion bass (PPSL), and then use a super high distortion BMS annular ring co-ax driver?

Wink


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Matt Stolton - Technical Director (!!!) - http://www.wildingsound.co.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilding Sound Ltd
"Sparkius metiretur vestra" - "Meter Your Mains"


Posted By: imageoven
Date Posted: 04 November 2014 at 1:09pm
Originally posted by _djk_ _djk_ wrote:

Nasty phone photo (with grills):
 
http://s56.photobucket.com/user/dkleitsch/media/20141009_160448_zpsbc12a61d.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
 
They look and sound great!


Very nice.

Better than the usual car audio!


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Keep pushing on, things are gonna get better.


Posted By: burningbush
Date Posted: 04 November 2014 at 1:37pm
@ high volume Matt, ie PA use flat out is abit fatiguing.  Home use with in limits, maybe?  IDK as I have no experience of them, but like the theory.


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music is the message


Posted By: Teunos
Date Posted: 04 November 2014 at 1:50pm
Originally posted by MattStolton MattStolton wrote:

I thought that the great and the good had a problem with the BMS co-ax drivers - 3rd order harmonics or summit'.

How can you do a super low distortion bass (PPSL), and then use a super high distortion BMS annular ring co-ax driver?

Wink
I actually tried recreating ''super high 10% third order distortion'', but could not at any level of SPL get the 3rd harmonic dist. to be louder than the 2nd Confused
At 1W i measured less than 1% THD and at 10W less than 3%THD.
Could not bear anything louder than this so stopped at 10W.



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Best regards,
Teun.


Posted By: MattStolton
Date Posted: 04 November 2014 at 4:36pm
No, wasn't having a pop at you, poking a stick a Mr Mogale -

Originally posted by R Mogale R Mogale wrote:

Welcome to the world of annular ring compression drivers and 'certain' coax drivers.

Yep they sound great for 10 mins. Its like hearing a whole new level of detail in the music. But thats just the third order harmonic distortion. Its the reason Aphex aural exciters were popular, they added something that wasn't there. But it was just distortion, which is ok at Hi Fi listening levels. 

I've tried to tame these 'drivers' for years, but I'm not good enough. I measure over 10% of distortion (THD) on angular ring compression drivers, which will leave you fatigued on long listening sessions.

I hate to say it, but 'that' company should just stick to making bass/mid drivers. They should be banned from making HF devices as some of us are sensitive to very high levels of distortion. 


Originally posted by R Mogale R Mogale wrote:

And don't start me on the HF beaming and totally unpredictable polar patterns these coax drivers have. 

To be honest I love *** HF drivers as if you like them it tells me you have no idea about sound.


So what else is there? I heard Tony ASS's R2U at war volume. IIRC he used a B&C DCX50. To my ears that sounded nice. But no longer made? The current DCM50 is just the mid section (600-10KHz).

I like the idea of these mid donuts around a conventional Hf, as a point source for 600Hz and up. Frees up the 10" or 12" to do 150/200Hz to 600Hz ish, and then kicks and subs as required. Puts everything onto around 2 octaves per driver (if you squint really hard).

And don't forget, I read somewhere that I am amazing, so it must be true. King of somewhere else by all accounts, too. Wink


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Matt Stolton - Technical Director (!!!) - http://www.wildingsound.co.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilding Sound Ltd
"Sparkius metiretur vestra" - "Meter Your Mains"


Posted By: Teunos
Date Posted: 04 November 2014 at 4:43pm
Originally posted by MattStolton MattStolton wrote:

No, wasn't having a pop at you, poking a stick a Mr Mogale -
I realised that, the 10% in my post was a reference to the post you refer to as well.


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Best regards,
Teun.


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 04 November 2014 at 5:08pm
Well if those drivers were so terribly bad, would Tannoy, EAW and many many other companies using?

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Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 04 November 2014 at 5:18pm
Is Rog not using them in the Prime V2? 

http://www.voidaudio.com/support/item/download/207_dacc04d2624fd76dc667d945c34420e3.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.voidaudio.com/support/item/download/207_dacc04d2624fd76dc667d945c34420e3.html

I think the 3rd harmonic does sound a bit high, there are a bit machine like, but IMD seems low to my ears and mid range impulse response is faster than anything else ive heard. 

I like em,  can see why some might find them a bit soulless though.   


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James Secker          facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk               www.soundgear.co.uk


Posted By: _djk_
Date Posted: 05 November 2014 at 2:40am
"Is this you work Dennis."
 
My basic design, bull-nose made by a professional cabinet maker. Pattern for the curved ribs made for me by a sign shop (my friend Steve at All-Brite Signs) with his big plotter.
 
Customer specified the HF driver, assembled the elliptical tractrix horn from CNC'd material (from Dave Harris).
 
Bill Woods provided the starting point for the crossover design.
 
Me? Just the designer and general contractor, a big effort on the part of many.
 
(my health failed in 2005, I have trouble sitting in front of a computer at work all day pointing and clicking)


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djk


Posted By: all bass
Date Posted: 05 November 2014 at 8:59am
Very nice Dennis.

Do you have any pictures of the PPSL part inside the horn?

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https://www.instagram.com/my_modular_journey/


Posted By: _djk_
Date Posted: 05 November 2014 at 9:24am
An early version with $10 surplus SEAS drivers (in a LaScala). 
 
http://s56.photobucket.com/user/dkleitsch/media/PPSLVentedLaScala_zps0903e024.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
 
.


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djk


Posted By: R Mogale
Date Posted: 06 November 2014 at 1:18am
Lovely project, great work.

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Only love will set us free



Posted By: _djk_
Date Posted: 06 November 2014 at 8:28am
Thanks!

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djk



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