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X10 vs mt122 what would you use to go with ES18BPH

Printed From: Speakerplans.com
Category: Plans
Forum Name: X10, X12, X15 and XM15
Forum Description: Discussion / Questions about the X10, X12, X15 and XM15
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=89798
Printed Date: 25 May 2022 at 2:30am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.05 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: X10 vs mt122 what would you use to go with ES18BPH
Posted By: C-Audiofreak
Subject: X10 vs mt122 what would you use to go with ES18BPH
Date Posted: 07 December 2014 at 11:07pm
Hi guys I was going to build four of the mt122 cabs to go with my ES18 bph kicks and X1subs but have found that the original spec drivers that the plan states are no longer available but I can get everything for the x10 cab which would fair best with the kicks and subs I have mentioned?



Replies:
Posted By: Heathrow_B_line
Date Posted: 08 December 2014 at 12:05am
most drivers will work with the mt122 or mt121

just ask the forum which drivers they would recommend for the mt122


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Produce a killer sound. Take no prisoners.


Posted By: Heathrow_B_line
Date Posted: 08 December 2014 at 12:10am

PD121, PD123ER, B&C 12PE32, B&C 12NDL76, 18SOUND 12ND710, BMS 12S310, BMS 12S610, ETC

New P AUDIO 12" drivers are out too.  Im not sure what the model number is...possibly P-Audio SN2-12MB8

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Produce a killer sound. Take no prisoners.


Posted By: DjLeco
Date Posted: 08 December 2014 at 8:26am
Selenium 12MB3P.
 
http://www.jblpro.com/ProductAttachments/12MB3P_SpecSheet.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www.jblpro.com/ProductAttachments/12MB3P_SpecSheet.pdf


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I'm A Stupid SMART Romanian...


Posted By: C-Audiofreak
Date Posted: 08 December 2014 at 10:11am
Do you think 1 pair of mt122 would be enough th go with four x1 and 4 ES18BH ? Or would I be best going for two pairs?


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 08 December 2014 at 11:22am
the only reason to have 2 pairs of mt122 would be to cover a wider area really.

i've had 1 mt121 per side above 2 X1 and 2 double 15 a side.. has done fine.


Posted By: Heathrow_B_line
Date Posted: 08 December 2014 at 12:01pm
Originally posted by C-Audiofreak C-Audiofreak wrote:

Do you think 1 pair of mt122 would be enough th go with four x1 and 4 ES18BH ? Or would I be best going for two pairs?


the x1 will run out of steam before the es18 or mt122 or mt121


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Produce a killer sound. Take no prisoners.


Posted By: king david
Date Posted: 08 December 2014 at 3:55pm
+1

but that is largely dependent on crossover points and music selection


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http://www.warriorcharge.noblogs.org


Posted By: C-Audiofreak
Date Posted: 08 December 2014 at 5:58pm
Why will the x1 run out of steam I'm hoping to run them upto 70hz then the ES18BPh 70-250hz and the mt122 250hz and up it will be mainly used for general purpous indie and rock and be used for general dance music when I'm dj'ing through it if these crossover points are wrong please advise me how I should set it up I want to get it right as sound quality is king for me and those using it I have already built the X1 subs so am committed with the sub end


Posted By: cookie-dj
Date Posted: 09 December 2014 at 6:17am
Neeeee naww someone's called the grammar police!
The MT's can outrun the x1, hence why you'd usually have 4x X1 (or even 4x 1850 horn) per MT. Cant really compare reflex tops to horn loaded, horn loaded will run rings around reflex tops outside though.
Depending on its usage, indoor/outdoor etc.

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You can't polish a turd!


Posted By: C-Audiofreak
Date Posted: 09 December 2014 at 10:21am
Ok so maybe I will just build 1pair of 122's then will two es18 be enough for four x1 and one pair of mt122?


Posted By: cookie-dj
Date Posted: 09 December 2014 at 11:12am
Possibly.  what are the ES18 loaded with?

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You can't polish a turd!


Posted By: cookie-dj
Date Posted: 09 December 2014 at 11:29am
Also, it sounds like you need to hear more sound systems as you seem a bit lost with the kit you are hoping to get (I've seen a few of your posts)! no offence intended!
MT122 are quite a tricky build without much speaker building experience or woodworking skills have heard (I wouldn't even attempt haha)
Also need to look at time alignment with the hornloaded speakers with 2 different typres of bandpass speakers too. if you knew all this already then sorry to be patronising :) 
HTH


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You can't polish a turd!


Posted By: C-Audiofreak
Date Posted: 09 December 2014 at 1:05pm
The second recommended p-audio driver on the plans.
Building them for me is no problem as I'm a skilled carpenter with workshop facility if I need it no I'm not yet trained as a Jedi in rigs but I know I will need to set up delays for all the cabinets will cross that bridge when I get to it thanks


Posted By: C-Audiofreak
Date Posted: 09 December 2014 at 5:52pm
Hey cookie as I can gather the correct kick bin or mid bass cab to put with the X1 is the hd15 though if I'm building four X1 I need 8 hd's so to combat having to build/store 8 cabs I was told to build the es18 bph which to me looks identical to half of a usb (dedicated kick bin) so two of these a side surely would be adequate to cover kicks I have already built a pair of X1 and doo intend on two more when funds allow please advise me otherwise what you would build above the X1 subs as clearly you are far more advanced in this field than I and In order to become as clued up as you are I have to start from my humble beginnings as a rig builder (my first major rig) and learn from you and the other big boys to one day be as good as you every body has to begin somewhere I just want to get it right


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 09 December 2014 at 6:11pm
i'd say es18 will be fine. mt 12 section will go down to about 150hz so that's where you want to take your upper bass up to. if it'll go higher, all good.



Posted By: cookie-dj
Date Posted: 09 December 2014 at 6:14pm
ES18 is a cheap and easy build, can also be loaded with a variety of cheaper drivers and can be used as standalone bins without sub for smaller and less demanding applications.

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You can't polish a turd!


Posted By: bass*en*mass
Date Posted: 09 December 2014 at 6:17pm
what sort of music you going to play through your rig?
If sub heavy 1:1 ratio x1:es18 is fine imo, if kick heavy 1:2 x1:hd15 better..
regarding tops, you have had a pm, if i was you i would snap these up, no brainer re. build costs etc. ;)


Posted By: C-Audiofreak
Date Posted: 09 December 2014 at 6:28pm
Rig will be mainly used for live pa with rock pop and indie played through it and also be used for dance trance and house music mixed bag really


Posted By: cookie-dj
Date Posted: 09 December 2014 at 6:38pm
1:1 ratio as said above with either should be fine! X1 and HD are a force to be reckoned with in the kick heavy genre though. 



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You can't polish a turd!


Posted By: C-Audiofreak
Date Posted: 09 December 2014 at 6:41pm
Yes cookie but 8 hd's seriously ? That's a lot of ply and space to be thinking about not to mention dollar


Posted By: cookie-dj
Date Posted: 09 December 2014 at 6:53pm
I've heard 4x scoops and 2x HD215 (so 4x HD) play together and it sounded sweet. Again, depends on the application!

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You can't polish a turd!


Posted By: bass*en*mass
Date Posted: 09 December 2014 at 7:06pm
go for reflex 18"s and some good 2x12"+comp tops ;)
An old trs mk1/2 rig refurbished rig will cost you less money and time, is more accepted and has a decent resale value.. (just an example, many other similar rigs out there that could be had for cheap)
Dont know why you are fixed on the x1, bph, horn idea tbh., for multi purpose its not exactly what i would choose.. as soon as you get proper jobs it isnt either ;)

6 good single 18"s + 212 Tops would suit the transport, storage, setup much better imo :)



Posted By: C-Audiofreak
Date Posted: 09 December 2014 at 7:13pm
Because I've already built the x1 subs Alex and I get pleasure out of building my own speakers why spend money on somebody else's effort to then take no pride in the workmanship of the speakers after all if I wanted a ready made rig I could have bought that anywhere and I wouldn't be on this forum would I so that's why I'm TRANSFIXED On my rig I am building


Posted By: bass*en*mass
Date Posted: 09 December 2014 at 7:21pm
Clap

good luck and lots of joy on this journey, seriously! :)


4x x1
4x es18
4x mt121

go for it..


Posted By: cookie-dj
Date Posted: 09 December 2014 at 7:24pm
Thumbs UpLOL

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You can't polish a turd!


Posted By: C-Audiofreak
Date Posted: 09 December 2014 at 7:25pm
Who you laughing at cookie?


Posted By: cookie-dj
Date Posted: 09 December 2014 at 7:39pm
I'm just astounded at the level you are entering the sound system field at - without a huge amount of knowledge.

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You can't polish a turd!


Posted By: C-Audiofreak
Date Posted: 09 December 2014 at 7:51pm
It's more of a hobby for me than anything with a view to becoming a bit more clued up as I go the x1 cabs I've built were originaly for use below a pair of 15+10+horn and I got a lot of self satisfaction out of building them but I have several friends who are in bands and will let me practice with my pa when they jam first off before I built the 3way cabs someone advised me against building 1850 or 186 horns as these would be no good as subs so size wise I looked at the sub plans and the x1 seemed a good box to build then I decided to build on my system and did a little research on here and found that I would need a cab to go between the subs and the tops then I found out I'd need two hd's per x1 and found it would cost me loads and was advised that two es18 would be as good as four hd then I wanted some good tops so was looking on here for what to build and fancied the mt122 is there something majorly wrong with the proposed rig ?


Posted By: cookie-dj
Date Posted: 09 December 2014 at 8:33pm
1850's are sweet bins so whoever advised against them probably hasn't heard what damage folded horns can do (2x wsx shocked me).
Depends how much 30-45hz you want.
If you are a skilled woodworker, why don't you try building some xtro's? you mentioned 3 way mid tops....


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You can't polish a turd!


Posted By: C-Audiofreak
Date Posted: 09 December 2014 at 10:25pm
Yes I did look at those but the phase bung is no longer available although the horn and b&c 8" driver is strange that.
Do you think that two pairs of those would negate the need for the es18 and the mt122 ?


Posted By: C-Audiofreak
Date Posted: 09 December 2014 at 11:00pm
Or maybe only one pair would do I've never heard a pair is the phase bung a must?


Posted By: Twiggy
Date Posted: 10 December 2014 at 6:09am
Wouldn't even consider xtros for live sound. Stick to your original plan, looks like a good combination of cabs.
Good luck!


Posted By: cookie-dj
Date Posted: 10 December 2014 at 6:14am
mykey on here still makes the horn for the xtro I hear...
You wouldn't need MT122 or ES18 with the Xtro correct. 
They are very expensive to build due to the fact that the driver selection is limited due to the internal spaces. but it does add some sort of value for money as it negates the need for dedicated kick bins.


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You can't polish a turd!


Posted By: Twiggy
Date Posted: 10 December 2014 at 8:19am
Cookie, you've gone from a page ago saying the mt122 is a tricky build to now suggesting a far more intricate and expensive build that's not even suitable to the application he wants to use his sound system for...


Posted By: cookie-dj
Date Posted: 10 December 2014 at 1:37pm
he said he's a master wood worker and mentioned 3 way mid tops......

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You can't polish a turd!


Posted By: C-Audiofreak
Date Posted: 10 December 2014 at 5:16pm
Yes that's right I can build anything if I put my mind to it


Posted By: C-Audiofreak
Date Posted: 10 December 2014 at 5:54pm
Ok guys so to summerise when building a rig and in the sub section you have four X1 cabs what would be the best kicks and how many and which mid tops would be suitable for a general purpous rig ie live events and dance events?


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 10 December 2014 at 6:51pm
here is a pic from last year, 2 x1, 2 double turbo 15, one mt121 per side.

this was for a live event with djs after.. the tops can do it. i think the 18sound comp is the weakest bit here.. looking to change these to a 12 and an 8 and a 1....



Posted By: C-Audiofreak
Date Posted: 10 December 2014 at 7:06pm
What amp do you drive your x1's with cravings?


Posted By: cookie-dj
Date Posted: 10 December 2014 at 7:20pm
Thomann proline 3000 is good for X1 (only 1 a side though) if your on a budget.

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You can't polish a turd!


Posted By: kevinmcdonough
Date Posted: 10 December 2014 at 7:37pm
hey

I only had time to skim over this thread so I apologise if this has been covered already, but if I can add my thoughts in here, as someone who is almost exclusively involved in live music rather than the usual dub/reggae or dance music on here: I think you're maybe aiming a little too high for your first rig.

Don't get me wrong I applaud your plans, and they're a great long term goal, but I think the rig your building will be ill suited initially to the kinds of work you'll be getting.

In most venues you will play, you will need all 4 MT122 cabs, two per side, to cover the room properly as they're fairly narrow dispersion. And you'll need all of your subs to stack so that they get top the right height.

However that is a LOT of rig, a lot of BIG speakers:  To transport, to set up, to store.  Plus for live music you'll need a full monitor wedge system, all the amps and processing to run it all.

Unless you already have contacts/gigs/bands in place for those bigger types of shows (an absolute minimum of 600 or 700 people, but in the ballpark of 1000 or more really), trying to cram all of that into the sorts of pubs/clubs/halls you're likely to be playing will be a big ask. I assume you have transport in place? and people to help you move/lift/stack everything for each gig?

A lot of pubs etc won't be especially happy with you bringing such a big rig in, it'll look a bit silly on their tiny stage with the band crammed somewhere in between.

If it were me, I would stick with the X1's you have just now since they're already built, and build a 15" reflex top cab to go on top. 

1 X1 a side with one 15" top with good quality drivers will be more than plenty for most pub bands, and everything you're likely to do initially, two subs a side if you really have a big hall and want the kick drum to thump. The rest of the money you were going to spend on the bigger rig I would put into getting a decent desk, decent mic package, stands, monitor system, and case it all up properly so you look like a professional system (cases always cost more than you think! Smile)

You can then get out and start making money straight away.  Add a few LED parcans to it as at this level they don't want to pay separately for lights, want you to provide a complete package system.

Once you've started to build a reputation and the rig, it's storage, transport etc has started to pay for itself, then you could start building the ES18's and MT122's and work towards a bigger system, by then you'll hopefully start to have a few bigger jobs come in.

And its not as if the 15" tops will be wasted either. I'm sure there will continue to be plenty of smaller band gigs mixed in with the bigger ones where them and a pair of X1's are sufficient, and even for many DJing gigs where its just a wedding, family party or whatever to get a few extra £ the tops on their own will be more than enough, they won't even need the subs. They'll also make a good drum monitor set up as drummers usually want a little kick and extra volume in their wedge than the rest of the band, who can have smaller wedges, 12" or whatever.

Just my thoughts, whatever you decide I wish you luck and be sure to post plenty of pics.

k






Posted By: bass*en*mass
Date Posted: 10 December 2014 at 7:45pm
^this pretty much sums it up kev..


Posted By: C-Audiofreak
Date Posted: 10 December 2014 at 7:56pm
Thankyou kev that's the kind of answer I was looking for I have several amps and an 8 channel desk everything is cased properly cables are all vandamme I'm building this gear up slowly initially the 15+10+1 are built and for those I used celestion comp driver and 18sound 10 in it's own chamber and an eminence kappa pro15 and the subs are to go with them amp wise I have two c-Audio Sr 707's and four C-Audio RA3000 so am getting there I just need a decent 2in 6out to go with them


Posted By: cookie-dj
Date Posted: 10 December 2014 at 8:04pm
great post!!
2 in 6 out - behringer ultradrive dcx2496 from thomann. 157 delivered.


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You can't polish a turd!


Posted By: C-Audiofreak
Date Posted: 10 December 2014 at 8:57pm
That's what I have my eye on cookie I will get there eventually takes time patience and pounds


Posted By: kevinmcdonough
Date Posted: 10 December 2014 at 9:48pm
hey

yeah ok, yeah that sounds like more usable gear just now. 

Berry Ultradrive are great I have one, as are the db Mark controllers either of them would let you set things up properly.  Going with the 4 in 8 out db mark would also give you room for the future upgrade when you move to the bigger system, so you can go stereo 4 way.

Next I would think you'll find that you outgrow an 8 channel desk very quickly, once you start micing up a drumkit properly thats 8-12 mics straight away, so you may want to plan for a beheinger X32, or maybe a GLD or soundcraft expression.  Having a digital desk to give you the extra inputs and save on the footprint of outboard compressors etc is a big bonus, and most small pubs etc will want the mixing desk at the side of the stage rather than a proper FOH position, so iPads and being able to walk out the front and actually hear whats going on is also huge.

Factor in lights next to provide a complete wee system package, and then in the background can be working on the bigger speakers.

k







Posted By: ceharden
Date Posted: 10 December 2014 at 11:01pm
Sounds like your current system is quite suitable for the jobs you're intending to do with it so I'd stick with it for now.

As has already been mentioned, things like the MT121 are intended to be part of a very large system.  They're very efficient but have quite a narrow dispersion and frequency range which immediately means you need a 4 way system and at least 2 mid-tops per side.

If you're looking for a general-purpose mid-top that's a step up from a single 15"+ HF, consider something along the lines of an X12 (but not necessarily the design on this site as-is).  Loaded with a couple of decent 12" drivers and a nice 1.4" compression driver you have a cab which will do from about 80-100Hz upwards and at a push possibly even full-range.  I used to do anything up to a 500 capacity theatre with just one per side for live music.

HD15's are designed for 'Hard Dance'.  They're loud, kick hard but highly un-musical so I'd give them a miss if I were you.



Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 11 December 2014 at 1:09am
i use pkn xd4000 on my x1s, void loaded.


Posted By: bitSmasher
Date Posted: 12 December 2014 at 12:57am
Originally posted by Heathrow_B_line Heathrow_B_line wrote:

most drivers will work with the mt122 or mt121
Shocked
Broad statement IMO, the horn loading has specific requirements



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