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Turbosound TFL-760H still worthy?

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Topic: Turbosound TFL-760H still worthy?
Posted By: Lincoln1
Subject: Turbosound TFL-760H still worthy?
Date Posted: 17 December 2014 at 8:33pm
I have just bought 8 x turbosounds and want to know if I restore them, maybe into trap cabs and give them a good overhaul whether they are still upto the task of modern PA quality-wise? I know this is subjective but do these still have street-cred today? I am from NZ and we don't have many Funktion1 or older that I have seen. I want to know before I start the project if it will be worthwhile.
I intend using them for pretty much everything, from band PA to DJ as my 'big' system. I have a number of JBL and RCF drivers to make a PA out of as well but saw these come up and couldn't help myself. Else I would make up some mid-highs using JBL 2226's and 2446's and bullet to reach the 20K. So apart from the increase of efficiency I'd like to know if these sound good. I know I can make them look good :)
Also if anyone has any info on the cabinet wiring and crossover then keen too, or just any info in general. I assumed these were all active but there looks to be a HF crossover on the comp driver. If I go this way I'd like to make these into bi-amp cabs, running a crossover between the 6.5 and 1" for simplicity.
Still worthy?
 
http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/Lincoln321/media/7e83d330-f7bf-4975-95c2-9d90227826a5_zps81b34767.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
 
http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/Lincoln321/media/DSC03352_zpsf89b9414.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">



Replies:
Posted By: madboffin
Date Posted: 17 December 2014 at 8:44pm
Turbo Floodlights are excellent midtops. There's no need to make them into trap boxes - they work perfectly well as they are, just array them with a gap at the front (I forget the optimum width but no doubt somebody here can remind us) and the corners touching.

I always thought they were the best thing Turbosound made, and was working at Partridge Green when they were introduced. This was the last Turbosound product to be designed by the original team, by then working independently as Funktion One Design.

See this thread for more info (and inspiration)
http://forum.speakerplans.com/turbosound-restoration_topic89695_page1.html

There are many options for bass & sub. Just be aware these need crossing over a little higher than most modern systems - don't use them below 200Hz.

I guess these were originally owned by Oceania.



Posted By: Twiggy
Date Posted: 17 December 2014 at 8:46pm
Simple answer, yes, these a very worthy.


Posted By: Robbo
Date Posted: 17 December 2014 at 9:07pm
The finest mid/hi cabinet for its size and performance ever built and still the yardstick that todays point source touring systems(non line array) are gauged against---You just need to find about a dozen 2x18 or 1x21 Turbo bass cabinets to keep up with them.


Posted By: boots-hifi
Date Posted: 17 December 2014 at 9:43pm
Still my favourite top box to date, you've done well with that purchase. Id restore them to their former glory and be very proud to take them out where ever I went.


Posted By: all bass
Date Posted: 17 December 2014 at 9:51pm
+1 to all comments above.

Unrivaled in it's days and still better than a lot of modern stuff!

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https://www.instagram.com/my_modular_journey/


Posted By: Nachural
Date Posted: 17 December 2014 at 9:54pm
They are still star performers. Enjoy them, you won't be disappointed!

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it's all just cardboard and magnets really


Posted By: partya
Date Posted: 17 December 2014 at 10:34pm
Good to see you on speakerplans Lincoln, you have inspired me to graduate from a reader to a poster!
 
I am the guy who has the TFS-780h's from the same bar, they are in quite good condition but I haven't had time to put some signal through them yet. Do you think you will replace the connectors? Seemingly EP6's are hard to come by down under.
 
Anyhow, once you have your system altogether, we should arrange a-bit-of-a-do!
 
Cheers


Posted By: jacethebase
Date Posted: 17 December 2014 at 11:01pm
Don't stick a passive crossover on the 6.5-1" you would really regret it.

I still run flood and the 21"s I have 12 subs and 6 tops. I'm in the middle of restoring them. If you have any questions please feel free to message me any questions you may have. I will try my best to help.

PS try and leave them in the boxes they are in. You will struggle to get a better built box.

Jace

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www.wedding-production.co.uk

www.stage2sound.com


Posted By: Dutchman
Date Posted: 18 December 2014 at 12:54am
speakon NL 8 and a nice processor with 8 outputs :D!! These cabs are beautiful! Original drivers still working?

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We need more SPL!


Posted By: Lincoln1
Date Posted: 18 December 2014 at 12:59am
I'm wowed! Yes were Oceanias, then went to a Studio in Auckland (forget their name). A mate who split off from Oceania years ago now in Welly said they would be old and thrashed. They look thrashed and hve had drink spilt down the horns (as they sit up that way when on their wheels...aargh) Reason for passive 6-1 is just to simplify things. I am an amp man myself and use mostly the original plx series. But to have like 4-5 bands is just pushing it. I use a dbx 260 (2 in 6 out) so just seems complex having 3 amps just for the tops since I like simple. Else I'll need an 8-10way EMS:). I have found subtle differences for tops when ran passive. Anyway it looks like there's already part of a crossover on the 1". Will read the links thanks guys.
The reason for the rebuild was the fact that the skeletal doesn't appear to require all the heavy build as its all a fibreglass horn setup. Seems like extra weight (yes they are heavy) considering the fibreglass bits do all the work. Also trap cabs are easier to 1-man lift and to me they look better. I was maybe even going to separate to a 2-part cab as well. Basically with removable steel grills for the rat-look. Oh well awesome news. Yes Partya lets do it.
I have around 12 x RCF L18P200 and 851 drivers for Sub duty. Was going to build a couple of fav tapped horns for an experiment as I have never tried that design. All mine are BP6's. For bass I'm not sure. I have plenty of 2226's if they're any use? I do like their sound. Cheers for the replies.
 
 


Posted By: Dutchman
Date Posted: 18 December 2014 at 1:04am
Buy another dbx 260, way more control, like delay. I'm sure you can refurb the cabs, I would keep them in original box , more of a vintage feeling haha. Overall a very nice buy! Hopefully you got a deal :)

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We need more SPL!


Posted By: T-Bone
Date Posted: 18 December 2014 at 1:11am
For what it's worth you can build your own Turbo TSW718 from plans at Marc O. French site, I am looking for Floods here in the US but prices have gone down so much it's worth every penny to invest in.LOL

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BASS, how low can you go!


Posted By: Lincoln1
Date Posted: 18 December 2014 at 1:18am
Not as good as Partya, but hey... Cheap as chips really. Noone here must know what these are:).One hf driver is toast. They gave me a bit of cash-back. I have only ohm'ed them all, and one lf driver may be a bit lower than normal, but all drivers look original. Cabs have had a hard-life with grilles all pushed in and many coats of horrible black paint, and shit spilt down them. The guts is all there so I'm happy. Will be happier when I get time to fire them up. I figured if I can get 6 good ones out of the 8 I'd be doing well, and would be a bigger setup than I'm ever going to need (want is another matter..) First thing is strip and clean all the drivers the best I can, incl the RTD sweet crap off them.


Posted By: Dutchman
Date Posted: 18 December 2014 at 1:20am
Sand thr cabs down and paint with tuff cab turbo blue from Blue Aran

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We need more SPL!


Posted By: bitSmasher
Date Posted: 18 December 2014 at 1:53am
Or DuraTex turbo blue which is available from Cannon Sound in Australia


Posted By: Dutchman
Date Posted: 18 December 2014 at 2:09am
That would be more cost effective for you guys. Very cool that those turbo's popped up in new zealand. Dont think they are widely available over there?

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We need more SPL!


Posted By: Lincoln1
Date Posted: 18 December 2014 at 2:23am
No there's only 2 clubs in Auck using F1 that I am aware of. None where I'm from. Around here that is of serious quality seems to be Martin, which the guy that mainly does our outdoor stuff sounds awesome. I forget the name of their horn subs but they definitely put out and just make me smile.
Anyway yeah rocking the Turbos will be awesome. They will look very cool whatever I do, I promise. They will be turbo blue and black f-glass horns.
I will attach one of my bp6 subs that made its way to the cave in my shed. Made those 4 back in the early 90's,incl my first Technics sounds from the late 80's..class AA lol.
http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/Lincoln321/media/DSC03355_zpsade2f1e5.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
Thanks again so much for the feedback, and looking forward to the rebuild.


Posted By: Dutchman
Date Posted: 18 December 2014 at 2:30am
Martin WSX? Ok nice keep us updated with some horny pics please! (Double meaning ;) )

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We need more SPL!


Posted By: partya
Date Posted: 18 December 2014 at 4:27am
Did you speak to the 'Studio the Venue' staff Lincoln? Apparently the reason they sold the Turbo stuff is because Martin kitted the venue out for free, on the basis they could use it as a showroom. There looked to be some H3+'s and a few WSX's. Not a bad deal! I think capacity is 1100 at that venue, so it would have been a fairly decent install.....


Posted By: fatfreddiescat
Date Posted: 18 December 2014 at 8:23am
First of al,l well done on your findClap

RE xover to bass cabs, Brit Row in the UK used to run these with the 21" bass cabs,  xover at 150Hz, which was on the low side, but standard practice there as it was the same xovers as used with the Flashlight rig.

Take a good look at the gap between the driver cone surrounds and the horn throat, every time these cabs are tilted back and forth the crap gets sieved through the grill and ends up in this gap.

I have to agree with what others have already said that to really appreciate these cabs, try as best you can to set it up as an all active systemTongue

If you haven't already then take a look at this thread, Flashlight used the same drivers:

http://forum.speakerplans.com/turbosound-restoration_topic89695_page1.html

Floodlights are still one of my all time favs, never tried them with some Martin 115's (y bins) or 215's but I bet they would be killerClap


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 18 December 2014 at 10:38am
yep. i'm working on boxing up 4 floods at the moment. the crossover you can see isn't a crossover... it's a little protection circuit for the 1" driver. absolutely best to run these 3 way. little more investment in processing and amps and nl8 cabling but once it's done it's done and you're up and running then.

popular cab on here these days!

that's a big pile of them you have!


Posted By: jacethebase
Date Posted: 18 December 2014 at 10:43am
Originally posted by Dutchman Dutchman wrote:

Sand thr cabs down and paint with tuff cab turbo blue from Blue Aran



Don't do that! Use a paint that is going to stay on the boxes.





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www.wedding-production.co.uk

www.stage2sound.com


Posted By: Hvedstrup
Date Posted: 18 December 2014 at 11:40am
I'll give you some facts just to clear up any misunderstandings. 

All processor setting can be found here:
  http://www.turbosound.com/upload-files/File/technical/dsp/dsp.xls" rel="nofollow - http://www.turbosound.com/upload-files/File/technical/dsp/dsp.xls

With TSW-718 the x-over is 180 hz. 
With TSW-721 it's 150. Don't ever let them play lover than this.

The "filter" you see in the boxes isn't a crossover. It's a protection curcuit that transforms the 8 ohm CD-103 1" into 16 ohm and sets the gain. Unless you plan to replace the 1" don't tamper with the filters. 

You can get original passive filters but they aren't likely to be fitted in your boxes. 

The CD-103 is really a EV-DH3.

The magic of the box is the 6,5" so make shure they are ind good condition. 

A conversion from EP6 to NL8 is a simple task and only involves i little cable stripping and some soldering. 

To splay them correctly let the backs touch and seperate the fronts a little more than a  "fist" wide. 

Get your limiter and gain settings correct, drivers are VERY expensive to recone and replace. 

Enjoy that you own some of the finest boxes ever made. In my ears they put almost everything to shame, including most of the "newer" F1 stuff. 
 


Posted By: THECANDLEMAN
Date Posted: 18 December 2014 at 12:24pm

Id say as much as fixing them up.....

Invest in a nice 8 out LMS, and 3x class A or A/B amps to run them off per 4/6 boxes

Don't invest money and time then run them off crap


Posted By: 100 volt line
Date Posted: 19 December 2014 at 8:52am
I had the skeletal version of these, run from Crest amps.  Wish I had never sold them !

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I never did understand Millman's Theorem !


Posted By: Lincoln1
Date Posted: 18 July 2015 at 8:32am
Okay half a year later and stripped the drivers out for a looksy. Almost a worst-case scenario as it looks like someone must have deliberately poured RTD drink down at least each mid-range.
So what to do now? Is there anything to try and recover the alcopop saturated cones? If not any recommendations on how to clean the less-doused drivers? Damp soapy cloth? Silver-bullet? Any going cheap :) If not all these recones are not going to make a rebuild hardly worthwhile I'm guessing, since I'm half a world away here in NZ.
 
Pissed-off and bummed out. Any help would be welcomed.
http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/Lincoln321/media/IMG_1006_zpse6aqbirz.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/Lincoln321/media/IMG_1009_zps1oe4shwn.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/Lincoln321/media/IMG_1012_zpsavvoo2ro.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
http://s1370.photobucket.com/user/Lincoln321/media/IMG_1015_zpsw7y1if5j.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
 


Posted By: brokenjoe
Date Posted: 18 July 2015 at 9:14am
Originally posted by jacethebase jacethebase wrote:

Originally posted by Dutchman Dutchman wrote:

Sand thr cabs down and paint with tuff cab turbo blue from Blue Aran



Don't do that! Use a paint that is going to stay on the boxes.




+1000000000000

REALLY, don't waste your time on this 


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error 404


Posted By: KidCreole
Date Posted: 18 July 2015 at 12:25pm
I can't understand why you're getting stressed. Its only a few re-cones. An afternoons fun work.
 
other alternative is to steam them with one of those fancy little gizmo's you see on the shopping channels.


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Mykey Wattco


Posted By: Lincoln1
Date Posted: 18 July 2015 at 10:01pm

Haha sorry about the negativity I didn't expect this much damage. I have only done like 4 recones ever, and that was hifi years ago so would prefer experts do these. Tell me more about the steaming gizmo? Would this be something for cleaning floors? Will water/steam damage the cone material? I guess if I can clean the less-doused ones it might save a few $$. BTW our dollar has plummeted recently plus every time I seem to import something it seems to get an extra tax these days. Anyone coming to NZ soon? :)

I'll have to check on how to get some recone kits posted over.
Def keen to restore these cabinets but modify them to the 'Ht' trap-style cabinets. As always cheers for the help and info. One link that didn't work was the processor settings link if anyone has that handy as I couldn't find it. "Hvedstrup" posted http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_143725295720116&key=11fd9ebf07ac0215bdf9d4a9e22c7859&libId=ic9j6cll01002gs4000DAciib5usx&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.speakerplans.com%2Fturbosound-tfl760h-still-worthy_topic89918_page2.html&v=1&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.turbosound.com%2Fupload-files%2FFile%2Ftechnical%2Fdsp%2Fdsp.xls&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.speakerplans.com%2Fturbosound-tfl760h-still-worthy_topic89918_page1.html&title=Turbosound%20TFL-760H%20still%20worthy%3F%20-%20Speakerplans.com%20Forums%20-%20Page%202&text=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.turbosound.com%2Fupload-files%2FFile%2Ftechnical%2Fdsp%2Fdsp.xls" rel="nofollow -


Posted By: ZL2FAE
Date Posted: 17 August 2015 at 5:56am
Hi I am about to start work on 8 Flashlights. In the same boat as you (NZ). I think we should ask the guys referenced for the contact for replacement 6.5" drivers.   http://www.formidableaudio.com/flashlight-reborn/bss-amps-flashlight-reunited/

Regards
Simon


Posted By: Hvedstrup
Date Posted: 17 August 2015 at 6:11am
The 6,5" are most likely theese:

http://www.precision-devices.com/Product-Details/PD615WG" rel="nofollow - http://www.precision-devices.com/Product-Details/PD615WG


Posted By: el chupacabra
Date Posted: 17 August 2015 at 9:24am
Worth mentioning that amphenol in aus do their own EP connector's and nl8. I've only used their nl4 with strain relief but the quality surpassed neutrik.


Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 17 August 2015 at 1:46pm
Originally posted by Hvedstrup Hvedstrup wrote:

The 6,5" are most likely theese:

http://www.precision-devices.com/Product-Details/PD615WG" rel="nofollow - http://www.precision-devices.com/Product-Details/PD615WG
 
Nothing like, the 6.5" is a very Turbo driver, if you want Flood you need RC kit from Turbo, the whole setup took Funktion One an age to get right and somehow I don't think they just bought stock PD drivers....
 
It is a system worth sorting out but will require the right bits, other thing do the drivers actually work? If they do a steam clean may be worth a try.....
Smile
 
 


Posted By: Hvedstrup
Date Posted: 17 August 2015 at 2:11pm
The PD615WG is a never driver so it wasn't available at the time you mentioned. People are reporting that it is a direct replacement for the LS-6503. 


Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 17 August 2015 at 7:37pm
Define "people" I lot of people put a lot of thing into Turbo Boxes, most of these people I would happily CULL!


Posted By: Hvedstrup
Date Posted: 18 August 2015 at 10:38am
Until it has been proven wrong i see no reason to dismiss the PD615WG. If someone would measure TS on both and compare we could come to a conclusion. 


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 18 August 2015 at 2:18pm
the floods have a 6503 driver, and the flash in the linked photos have a 6501. no doubt they're similar, with the bolt through plug etc.. but they're obviously different. so no reason to presume the PD driver is exactly one or the other. maybe you're right.. or maybe the only difference in the 2 turbo ones is how the plug bolts on.


Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 22 September 2015 at 1:22am
Originally posted by el chupacabra el chupacabra wrote:

Worth mentioning that amphenol in aus do their own EP connector's and nl8. I've only used their nl4 with strain relief but the quality surpassed neutrik.


Interesting

I don't know why everyone talks about converting into SP8?
My friend did the same mistake.

NL6 is Great, if you really want to carry bass in the same cable do a SP8-EP6 from your bassbins.

But just stay away from Neutrik SP8
It's crap!
Especially the plastic ones, they loose connections.
The new expensive metal ones are crap too, loose them & releasebutton breaks.

EP6 & XLR are so nice sturdy metal connectors with locks, I can understand that turbo uses this! SP8 is a lot of work and more problems coming your way.

I use SP8, but that's because I got 12 boxes with these connectors and they were cheaper.

Enough about that, Floodlights are great!

Can they really be crossed at 150HZ?
Floodlight spec sheet says 180HZ
Flashlight spec sheet says 150 HZ (longer horns)


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www.facebook.com/babysoundsystem


Posted By: Hvedstrup
Date Posted: 22 September 2015 at 6:55am
NL8 connectors work fine and having used/abused them for 15 years iv'e yet to have any problems at all. 

I did the EP6 to NL8/4 conversion on my Floods and 718's and haven't looked back. 

Ill write it once more! The Floods can be run to 150hz and it's on the official Turbosound DSP-settings spreadsheet when used in conjunction with the 21" subs . The cost is a little lower powerhandling.  




Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 22 September 2015 at 12:07pm
Ok, had nothing but problems with SP8, especially the plastic connectors.

I had a look thru the flashlight system manual & the 760ht, all says 180hz,
strange.

But what's even stranger is that the response start to drop dead below 280hz!
The response is 15 db down at 150HZ !!!!

Have a look at the freq response.
I guess it's due to the fact that they'll couple lower in groups.
But going down to 150HZ looks unwise from the spec sheet!


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www.facebook.com/babysoundsystem


Posted By: Hvedstrup
Date Posted: 22 September 2015 at 12:46pm
People have been dropping Floods down to 150 hz for the last 25 years without issues. If you are planning to run them to the limit then it wouldn't be advisable due to higher excursion on the 12". 

Myself playing mostly top 20 and electronic music i just run the standard programs and love the midbassy kick sound. 



Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 22 September 2015 at 1:21pm
Ok, great news!


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www.facebook.com/babysoundsystem


Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 22 September 2015 at 1:23pm
Anyone interested in some tms-2s?
LOL:-) -Think I'm going for 16 floods in stead, but have to check again how I like my subs from 100-150hz...

I had the same dream about floods on martin 215 mk2 / mk3s as someone posted on here:)


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www.facebook.com/babysoundsystem


Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 22 September 2015 at 1:26pm
180 is for the 718s, the Flash Lo boxes (721s) need more help.
 
TBH, both are crap, the Flood is so bloody efficient running 4 721s (or paired 718s) to 110 and then a single 718 in the 100-180Hz band under a pair of them is the only way....
 
TSE-218s make amazing kick sections for Flood too....
 
Given the likely geif of a reconing (unless you are on good terms with FK1, remember this is NOT a Turbosound box, it is a FK1 ) dropping a 20 year old box to 150Hz may end in tears!


Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 22 September 2015 at 1:52pm
Wise man:-)
They call them 780L, that's a 21" box
I heard the 721 & 718 before and that confused me a bit.


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www.facebook.com/babysoundsystem


Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 22 September 2015 at 2:33pm
Originally posted by tv00 tv00 wrote:

Wise man:-)
They call them 780L, that's a 21" box
I heard the 721 & 718 before and that confused me a bit.
 
Technically A 721 is a flyable TSW-121 and the 780L is Flash Lo, again flyable but carries flashlight labelling, AFAIA the 721 and 780L are the same box...Smile


Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 22 September 2015 at 3:16pm
so tsw 721 & 780L should be similar
Why these strange names?
Looking at the spec sheets I see one little difference, 137dB peak for 721 & 136dB for 780, everything else look the same, why???


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www.facebook.com/babysoundsystem


Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 22 September 2015 at 3:18pm
I have an answer to my own questions, Flashlight systems was only sold in groups of 6 bass bins & 6 tops according to the user manual. Probably they also wanted to sell the bassbins separately, but nok to break their own marketing principle they had to give it a new model name.

That's my guess, silly isn't it?
Anyone with a better guess?

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www.facebook.com/babysoundsystem


Posted By: JEB88
Date Posted: 22 September 2015 at 3:29pm
Originally posted by tv00 tv00 wrote:

Anyone interested in some tms-2s?
LOL:-) -Think I'm going for 16 floods in stead, but have to check again how I like my subs from 100-150hz...

I had the same dream about floods on martin 215 mk2 / mk3s as someone posted on here:)

Yes!!! let us know if you wanna get rid of the TMS 2's Smile



Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 22 September 2015 at 3:37pm
Don't worry, I will:-)
Sometimes floodlights come up really cheap, every so often I missed it
Tms-4 & tms-3s are often found cheap as well.
But tms-2s are just never around!


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www.facebook.com/babysoundsystem


Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 23 September 2015 at 2:08am
Originally posted by tv00 tv00 wrote:

I have an answer to my own questions, Flashlight systems was only sold in groups of 6 bass bins & 6 tops according to the user manual. Probably they also wanted to sell the bassbins separately, but nok to break their own marketing principle they had to give it a new model name.

That's my guess, silly isn't it?
Anyone with a better guess?
 
Flash was 6 pairs on a BSS EPC series rack, you bought rack, cables, boxes and the LMS to boot!


Posted By: jacethebase
Date Posted: 23 September 2015 at 8:43am
Also to note the flash drivers do not have a bolt through them. The phase plug is held on by the fibreglass.

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www.wedding-production.co.uk

www.stage2sound.com


Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 23 September 2015 at 7:01pm
Ah, so in fact the flood / flash drivers are a bit differet, are they the same apart from this?


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www.facebook.com/babysoundsystem


Posted By: Lincoln1
Date Posted: 24 September 2015 at 8:56pm
Originally posted by jacethebase jacethebase wrote:

Also to note the flash drivers do not have a bolt through them. The phase plug is held on by the fibreglass.
I have seen the 6501 (flash 6.5") which did have the same bolt thru as the 6503. There are some cheap 6501's I could get locally but wanted to maintain the system.


Posted By: Lincoln1
Date Posted: 24 September 2015 at 9:05pm
Originally posted by shagnasty shagnasty wrote:

Originally posted by Hvedstrup Hvedstrup wrote:

The 6,5" are most likely theese:

http://www.precision-devices.com/Product-Details/PD615WG" rel="nofollow - http://www.precision-devices.com/Product-Details/PD615WG
 
Nothing like, the 6.5" is a very Turbo driver, if you want Flood you need RC kit from Turbo, the whole setup took Funktion One an age to get right and somehow I don't think they just bought stock PD drivers....
 
It is a system worth sorting out but will require the right bits, other thing do the drivers actually work? If they do a steam clean may be worth a try.....
Smile
 
 
I'm all ears. Yes the drivers still work, and have dried out since. I know less than zero about steam cleaning, so keen to know what to buy and even what a small steamer device is actually used for so I can buy one. Please show and tell :)


Posted By: Moberg
Date Posted: 29 October 2015 at 7:50am
Hey Lincoln
Im also planning to buy some TFL 760 here in Germany. I think i have got way better access to spare parts here. And luckily i am going to auckland in 2016 for six months - so maybe i can help you a little bit ;)


Posted By: Lincoln1
Date Posted: 12 December 2015 at 6:31pm
Much appreciated, that would be awesome!  I still haven't done much except completely strip these all down to check out. I will be selling a couple of these since I don't really have the room. This will hopefully keep the rebuild budget down a bit too. Will check here from time to time. It looks like I may need 1 HF diaphragm and possibly 2 midrange recone kits.


Posted By: Moberg
Date Posted: 29 March 2016 at 2:18pm
Hi Lincoln, i finally got my 4 760Ht and love them. One of the best Speakers i have ever heard.
I have good news for you: The HFis easy to get over here and it would be no problem to ship them over to NZ (about 20€ for a big package). The midrange driver is also very rare here in europe, but i am trying to get some, as long they are still avaiable, anyway for having them as spare parts. I already found some recone kits for the 12" driver. You might give me your mail address or Facebook for better communication.


Posted By: Sypa
Date Posted: 29 March 2016 at 7:17pm
http://www.precision-devices.com/Product-Details/PD615WG

Hey,have you seen this ? Shouldnt be so hard to get in europe,or you want to stay turbo branded? This was as i remember from some threads a good if not the exact replacement.


Posted By: Moberg
Date Posted: 29 March 2016 at 10:29pm
Oh thank you for the link! Didnt new that there is a driver which is quite similar to the originals. Maybe i will test this one if i blow one of mine and i will post the results. (If someone is interested i can measure the difference to the original TS)


Posted By: Hvedstrup
Date Posted: 30 March 2016 at 7:10am
Originally posted by Moberg Moberg wrote:

Oh thank you for the link! Didnt new that there is a driver which is quite similar to the originals. Maybe i will test this one if i blow one of mine and i will post the results. (If someone is interested i can measure the difference to the original TS)

Please do! 

I seems that nobody has tested this yet, but i believe that it could be a perfect replacement. It even has the bolt through hole in the magnet for the phase plug. I will  send you a good bottle of wine for your efforts if you do the test. 


Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 30 March 2016 at 8:16am
Originally posted by Hvedstrup Hvedstrup wrote:

Originally posted by Moberg Moberg wrote:

Oh thank you for the link! Didnt new that there is a driver which is quite similar to the originals. Maybe i will test this one if i blow one of mine and i will post the results. (If someone is interested i can measure the difference to the original TS)

Please do! 

I seems that nobody has tested this yet, but i believe that it could be a perfect replacement. It even has the bolt through hole in the magnet for the phase plug. I will  send you a good bottle of wine for your efforts if you do the test. 


I think I have one of these from an old MACH-SLingshot if you want to do the test yourself:-)

+By the way my Aspect Rig is leaving me this week:-(
-Just too new & too fancy & too easy to rent out, having stuff that is not DIY & still in production was new to me. I sell all 4 pcs ta-500 & 4 pcs TSW for £6K, guess I could get better money in UK:-)


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www.facebook.com/babysoundsystem


Posted By: +/-3dB
Date Posted: 30 March 2016 at 1:03pm
Originally posted by Hvedstrup Hvedstrup wrote:

Originally posted by Moberg Moberg wrote:

Oh thank you for the link! Didnt new that there is a driver which is quite similar to the originals. Maybe i will test this one if i blow one of mine and i will post the results. (If someone is interested i can measure the difference to the original TS)

Please do! 

I seems that nobody has tested this yet, but i believe that it could be a perfect replacement.
 
Read on FB that SP member Laurin has replaced the 6,5" to a PD and the 1" to a BMS comp.
Big difference.
 
There is also this project
http://www.formidableaudio.com/flashlight-reborn/flashlight-refurb-in-detail/" rel="nofollow - http://www.formidableaudio.com/flashlight-reborn/flashlight-refurb-in-detail/
 


Posted By: Moberg
Date Posted: 30 March 2016 at 1:20pm
Haha thats funny - i am in contact with laurin and will do the test with the bms soon. But i didnt knew he had changed the 6,5inch also. And i got mine opened at the moment and sanded them and the 6,5invh looks nearly exactly like the pd (the original is also a pd).


Posted By: Sypa
Date Posted: 30 March 2016 at 1:52pm
Which BMS comp if i may know? The cd 103-s in my floods are slowly but surely failing one by one :)


Posted By: +/-3dB
Date Posted: 30 March 2016 at 2:04pm
Moberg,

Tell us what you think. Would like to try it myself someday.


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 30 March 2016 at 2:08pm
my comps in mine seem to need a lot of power to get them going.. as in, with a 4 channel amp, i'd often have the 6.5" drivers at -9db or so., and the comps at 0.. to get it to sound balanced to my ears..

is this a sign that the comps are fading... or that the 6.5 is just crazy efficient.. or just that my ears are dying?


Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 30 March 2016 at 3:30pm
I have 3 ev cd-103 in very good condition...


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www.facebook.com/babysoundsystem


Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 30 March 2016 at 4:25pm
Originally posted by cravings cravings wrote:

my comps in mine seem to need a lot of power to get them going.. as in, with a 4 channel amp, i'd often have the 6.5" drivers at -9db or so., and the comps at 0.. to get it to sound balanced to my ears..

is this a sign that the comps are fading... or that the 6.5 is just crazy efficient.. or just that my ears are dying?

I measured some DH3s on floodlight horns and the sensitivity was quite low, it started to roll off from about 8Khz iirc,  i think they may well be fading, i dont think its your ears :).


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James Secker          facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk               www.soundgear.co.uk


Posted By: 4D
Date Posted: 30 March 2016 at 4:52pm
Originally posted by tv00 tv00 wrote:

I have 3 ev cd-103 in very good condition...


oh perchance I can purchase one from you ? please pm details

thanks


-------------
DMZ. "The bass was intense. Girls were literally running up to stand next to the subs"


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 30 March 2016 at 4:53pm
Originally posted by Timebomb Timebomb wrote:

I measured some DH3s on floodlight horns and the sensitivity was quite low, it started to roll off from about 8Khz iirc,  i think they may well be fading, i dont think its your ears :).


they're high passed at 8khz heh...


Posted By: madboffin
Date Posted: 30 March 2016 at 6:43pm
Try taking the compression drivers apart and cleaning 20 years' worth of dust and crud out of the gaps, you might be amazed...



Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 30 March 2016 at 8:12pm
i had one of them apart just the other day.. it was intermittently not working, found to be the blob of solder joining the terminal to the.. ribbon wire, for want of a better word had failed.

and one night when it didn't work.. i was very surprised at how high i could take the 6.5 above 8 and still get sound out of it!

but yeah, didn't really notice any real difference after cleaning out the gap.


Posted By: Moberg
Date Posted: 30 March 2016 at 11:28pm
The BMS 4550 come very close to the original EV. The 4545 is very loud and the 4524 (with adapter) play more „easy going“ and fresh (dont know how to describe ist in english. Thats what he said - i will test the 4524 and get back with the results. But this might take time, because atm every penny i get, gets invested in Subs, processing and so on ;)


Posted By: +/-3dB
Date Posted: 31 March 2016 at 6:13am
Thanks for the input.


Posted By: Hvedstrup
Date Posted: 31 March 2016 at 6:41am
Originally posted by +/-3dB +/-3dB wrote:

Originally posted by Hvedstrup Hvedstrup wrote:

Originally posted by Moberg Moberg wrote:

Oh thank you for the link! Didnt new that there is a driver which is quite similar to the originals. Maybe i will test this one if i blow one of mine and i will post the results. (If someone is interested i can measure the difference to the original TS)

Please do! 

I seems that nobody has tested this yet, but i believe that it could be a perfect replacement.
 
Read on FB that SP member Laurin has replaced the 6,5" to a PD and the 1" to a BMS comp.
Big difference.
 
There is also this project
http://www.formidableaudio.com/flashlight-reborn/flashlight-refurb-in-detail/" rel="nofollow - http://www.formidableaudio.com/flashlight-reborn/flashlight-refurb-in-detail/
 

Can you please link to the FB page? 

I think this is very interesting since my Floods will one day fail do to age of drivers. When replacing the CD-103/EV-DH3 to a BMS wich adapters are needed? Do you bypass the internal protection filter in the Floods? Remember that besides protection it raises the CD-103's impedance to 16 ohm. 


Posted By: Moberg
Date Posted: 31 March 2016 at 8:41am
You only need an adapter for the 4524 - for the screwed throat you need for the turbos. Havent searched for an adapter yet. The Club in which the Floods are installed is called Stereo Bielefeld. Everythinf else you can find on laurins private profile - but there are only a few pics and the info that the mods are bms.
16ohm or 8ohm is not really important for me because i am only running 2 per side. The protection may be usefull but i havent thought about that


Posted By: Moberg
Date Posted: 31 March 2016 at 12:27pm
Has anyone of you an ideo which material i could use for filling some broken pieces of the horn and then painting over them?


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 31 March 2016 at 12:40pm
PU glue will hold for a good while, or you can just layer up replacement fibreglassing and sand it back


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 31 March 2016 at 12:53pm
i had a crack in one of mine. i was nervous about using glue that would damage it so i brought it to a local car crash repair place, and they seemed happy they knew what type of foam it was made from and they glued it back for me with something for a tenner.. it's been fine since. i sanded it down a bit and it looks ok. my horns are naturally sort of streaky or inconsistent looking, should probably paint them all nice.


Posted By: Sypa
Date Posted: 31 March 2016 at 2:00pm
Pardon if im being a bit daft here,but the hf protection makes the 8ohm dh3 16 ohm?
And protects it in which way?
If i were to get lets say bms 4550 would it be advisable to connect it the same as the ev or bypass it?



Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 31 March 2016 at 2:02pm
I use bms 4538 & 4540nd in my tms-2s
They should be as loud even though they're smaller, due to higher sensivity...


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Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 31 March 2016 at 4:00pm
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

PU glue will hold for a good while, or you can just layer up replacement fibreglassing and sand it back

There not fibreglass there PU foam, resin and glass may be an option though.  


BMS 4524 was not as light and delicate as the DH3 from our testing, id consider the Fane CD145 (if you can still get them) or CD150 neo, Funktion used these after the floodlight/ DH3, they have a closer sound than the BMS.  

Floodlight HF horn rolls off early, these measurements were not SPL calibrated, but frequency response is correct.




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James Secker          facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk               www.soundgear.co.uk


Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 31 March 2016 at 5:29pm
A closer sound to the dh3?
Did you consider 4538 or 4540nd? They reach up high, depending on the horn of course, but as the 6,5" reaches up high they should've been able to make a high horn covering the rest (I hope), much more narrow band than what people try to achieve with a 2" driver.


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Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 31 March 2016 at 5:47pm


You have a similar response to the plot but their scale is different. Although yours looks more like you measured the MF section as well. Did they have passive crossover?

I would suggest that the HF drivers are not performing properly in the boxes you measured though. Lost plots long time ago but I measured a few in venues a while back and there wasn't a lack of HF.


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 31 March 2016 at 5:48pm
yeah i have a pair of 4538 here for another project.. they'd be the ones i'd try. 4550 doesn't seem like the obvious choice at all.


Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 31 March 2016 at 6:18pm
That's what I thought, you'd want sensivity up high, really high sssssss


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Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 31 March 2016 at 6:38pm
Yeah 4538 / 4540nd screw thread i think would be the ones i would go for if going for bms, i didnt have one to hand at the time though, as it happens i do still have a floodlight here and a 4540nd so i could give it another go, only got 1 floodlight though so cant a/b at the moment. 

The polyester diaphragms do sound quite different to the titanium diaphragms though, the BMS drivers deal with a lower crossover point much better but for pure top end i think i prefer titanium generally, though the top end on the 4595 is as good as its optimized for the high crossover point.

  i think in this application i would go with the CD145, or stick with the DH3., CD130 sounded nearly as good as the DH3 to me, it might of been the thread adapter on the 4524, but it would need one so the 4524 was not the best option.

 


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James Secker          facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk               www.soundgear.co.uk


Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 31 March 2016 at 6:46pm
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:



You have a similar response to the plot but their scale is different. Although yours looks more like you measured the MF section as well. Did they have passive crossover?

I would suggest that the HF drivers are not performing properly in the boxes you measured though. Lost plots long time ago but I measured a few in venues a while back and there wasn't a lack of HF.

No passive crossover, just a 2Khz highpass on all drivers, theres plots with and without the protection filter on the jpeg, ill try and make it bigger so you can read it, all 3 drivers gave similar roll off in the top end which led me to say its the horn.  I did a measurement of the CD130 in a small conical horn at the same time and it had much more top end than in the floodlight horn, floodlight horn was smoother lower down though.   Might have another go in a couple of days to be double sure, got some Orbits nearly ready to load up so will have the measurement kit out then.   


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James Secker          facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk               www.soundgear.co.uk


Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 31 March 2016 at 6:56pm
Will do a better res pic in a sec, just found this one, CD130 in short conical vs floodlight horn.




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James Secker          facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk               www.soundgear.co.uk


Posted By: +/-3dB
Date Posted: 31 March 2016 at 6:56pm
Originally posted by Hvedstrup Hvedstrup wrote:

Originally posted by +/-3dB +/-3dB wrote:

Originally posted by Hvedstrup Hvedstrup wrote:

Originally posted by Moberg Moberg wrote:

Oh thank you for the link! Didnt new that there is a driver which is quite similar to the originals. Maybe i will test this one if i blow one of mine and i will post the results. (If someone is interested i can measure the difference to the original TS)

Please do! 

I seems that nobody has tested this yet, but i believe that it could be a perfect replacement.
 
Read on FB that SP member Laurin has replaced the 6,5" to a PD and the 1" to a BMS comp.
Big difference.
 
There is also this project
http://www.formidableaudio.com/flashlight-reborn/flashlight-refurb-in-detail/" rel="nofollow - http://www.formidableaudio.com/flashlight-reborn/flashlight-refurb-in-detail/
 

Can you please link to the FB page? 

I think this is very interesting since my Floods will one day fail do to age of drivers. When replacing the CD-103/EV-DH3 to a BMS wich adapters are needed? Do you bypass the internal protection filter in the Floods? Remember that besides protection it raises the CD-103's impedance to 16 ohm. 

I can't find it anymore. But it was just a pic and comment. 
The same info is here.

The club and the stack:
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.651415704894878.1073741956.103329596370161&type=3" rel="nofollow - https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.651415704894878.1073741956.103329596370161&type=3





Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 31 March 2016 at 7:13pm

I dont know what going on with re sizeing the pic, scale is 5dB per division, Red is 4524, Green is CD130, Light blue is DH3, Dark blue is DH3 though the protection filter.   


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James Secker          facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk               www.soundgear.co.uk


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 31 March 2016 at 10:29pm
Can you show coherency of the measurement?


Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 31 March 2016 at 11:35pm

DH3 phase response without protection filter,  ill try and get a chance to measure the 4540nd.


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James Secker          facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk               www.soundgear.co.uk


Posted By: Moberg
Date Posted: 01 April 2016 at 11:27am
I found a material for filling the holes: it is calles gorilla plastic and i am really surprised. It is super strong and when its heated up its really flexible.


Posted By: DMorison
Date Posted: 01 April 2016 at 12:45pm
Originally posted by Timebomb Timebomb wrote:


I dont know what going on with re sizeing the pic, scale is 5dB per division, Red is 4524, Green is CD130, Light blue is DH3, Dark blue is DH3 though the protection filter.   
 
I'm pretty sure when you upload to speakerplans it compresses the crap out of the image file (as well as resizing it to 500px wide IIRC), presumably to save file space but it truly buggers up the clarity of a lot of things.
Many of us use off-site file hosts then just paste in the links to have the images show up in the post - I use imgur but there's plenty others out there too.
 
HTH,
David.


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 01 April 2016 at 1:00pm
Originally posted by Timebomb Timebomb wrote:



DH3 phase response without protection filter,  ill try and get a chance to measure the 4540nd.


That looks very much to me like measurement delay isn't correct especially if there aren't any filters. That would explain your HF response. I'll measure up a Flood later today to compare.


Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 01 April 2016 at 4:11pm
Yeah just checked GD plots i think your right. oops.

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James Secker          facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk               www.soundgear.co.uk


Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 01 April 2016 at 4:15pm
Originally posted by Moberg Moberg wrote:

I found a material for filling the holes: it is calles gorilla plastic and i am really surprised. It is super strong and when its heated up its really flexible.

Cheers my mate cracked one so that might come in handy.


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James Secker          facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk               www.soundgear.co.uk



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