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X1 Data and graphs with diferent drivers

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Category: Plans
Forum Name: X1
Forum Description: Discussion / Questions about the X1 sub
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=9161
Printed Date: 17 February 2020 at 12:22pm
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Topic: X1 Data and graphs with diferent drivers
Posted By: Mircea Bartic
Subject: X1 Data and graphs with diferent drivers
Date Posted: 20 March 2007 at 5:02pm
Hi everybody

I started this thread in order to help the more beginner members of our forum build X1's  loaded with diferent drivers than the original one

first:

enclosure data

X1 is a  6th order bandpass

Chamber 1 - 189 Liters tunned to 42.2 Hz
Chamber 2 -  62 Liters tunned to 84.7 Hz

seems that ROG has done a veery good job with this bandpass, as it models verry good with a lot of drivers.






-------------
general manager & head designer at nexus-acoustics research
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Ex Nexus_3



Replies:
Posted By: Mircea Bartic
Date Posted: 20 March 2007 at 5:11pm
P audio SD-18 

800W RMS

100dB/1W
129 dB / 800W

graph at full power below:


highpass at 35 Hz with 24 dB/octave
no excursion problems
do not exceed 1KW !



-------------
general manager & head designer at nexus-acoustics research
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Ex Nexus_3


Posted By: Mircea Bartic
Date Posted: 20 March 2007 at 5:14pm
P audio C18-650EL

650W RMS

100dB/1W
128 dB / 650W

graph at full power below:


highpass at 35 Hz with 24 dB/octave
no excursion problems
do not exceed 800W !

-------------
general manager & head designer at nexus-acoustics research
http://www.facebook.com/nexus.acoustics.research" rel="nofollow - http://www.facebook.com/nexus.acoustics.research

Ex Nexus_3


Posted By: Mircea Bartic
Date Posted: 20 March 2007 at 5:17pm
P audio SD-18EL

1000W RMS

99.5dB/1W
129 dB / 1000W

graph at full power below:


highpass at 35 Hz with 24 dB/octave
no excursion problems
do not exceed 1200W !

-------------
general manager & head designer at nexus-acoustics research
http://www.facebook.com/nexus.acoustics.research" rel="nofollow - http://www.facebook.com/nexus.acoustics.research

Ex Nexus_3


Posted By: Mircea Bartic
Date Posted: 20 March 2007 at 5:21pm
P audio WN-18S

500W RMS

99.1dB/1W
126 dB / 500W

graph at full power below:



highpass at 35 Hz with 24 dB/octave
no excursion problems
do not exceed 600W !

-------------
general manager & head designer at nexus-acoustics research
http://www.facebook.com/nexus.acoustics.research" rel="nofollow - http://www.facebook.com/nexus.acoustics.research

Ex Nexus_3


Posted By: Mircea Bartic
Date Posted: 20 March 2007 at 5:24pm
P audio HP-18S

500W RMS

99.6dB/1W
127 dB / 500W

graph at full power below:


highpass at 35 Hz with 24 dB/octave
no excursion problems
do not exceed 600W !

-------------
general manager & head designer at nexus-acoustics research
http://www.facebook.com/nexus.acoustics.research" rel="nofollow - http://www.facebook.com/nexus.acoustics.research

Ex Nexus_3


Posted By: Mircea Bartic
Date Posted: 20 March 2007 at 5:27pm
P audio HP-18W

400W RMS

99.5dB/1W
126 dB / 400W

graph at full power below:


highpass at 35 Hz with 24 dB/octave
 excursion problems above 400W
do not exceed 400W !

-------------
general manager & head designer at nexus-acoustics research
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Ex Nexus_3


Posted By: Mircea Bartic
Date Posted: 20 March 2007 at 5:31pm
Drivers tested, and found not to be usable in this design, even with alterations to the ports are:

P-audio C18-600LF
P-audio P-18N

is looks like there are some really cheap driver that can perform in this enclosure

remember, DO NOT OVERDRIVE these speakers, especially the cheaper ones because the X1 is a very brutal bandpass with uneven loading of the cone and severe unloading outside the operating range.

if you need other cones simulated in this designs , just ask

hope this helps



-------------
general manager & head designer at nexus-acoustics research
http://www.facebook.com/nexus.acoustics.research" rel="nofollow - http://www.facebook.com/nexus.acoustics.research

Ex Nexus_3


Posted By: Rog
Date Posted: 27 March 2007 at 9:55am
Nice thread my man.
 
Looks like your using Bass Box Pro for the sims. I didn't use that when I designed it. I'm not sure its accurate at 6th order BP. Cabs build from Bass Box Pro don't measure anything like the sims say they should.
 
The data used for the X1 is this, your'e close but I'm going to give you a detention for getting it wrong ha ha.
 
Rear Chamber (Vb1) 180 Litres
Front Chamber (Vb2)  64 Litres
 
Rear tuning      (Fb1) 38.5Hz
Front tuning     (Fb2) 73.5Hz
 
Bandwidth -3dB         56.7Hz
 


Posted By: soundsystemdan
Date Posted: 27 March 2007 at 10:41am
I think the Void V18-1000 and PD1850 will of interest to a few.

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http://dancomsound.com" rel="nofollow - http://dancomsound.com


Posted By: Mike Severloh
Date Posted: 27 March 2007 at 12:39pm
Originally posted by Mircea Bartic Mircea Bartic wrote:

Drivers tested, ...
if you need other cones simulated in this designs , just ask

hope this helps

 
Hi Mircea,
 
it indeed does.
 
Personally Id like 2 see simus of the following drivers:
 
PD.186, PDN.18SB40 and PD.18BR40
BMS 18n850 (will withstand 2.5 kw of power, people say)
Beyma 18G480 and 118ndw
18sound 18ND9300
B&C 18TBX100 and 18PZB100
Ciare 18.009
Selenium 18SWS1100 and 18WS600
Dayton PF460
 
, mainly the lightweight neodyms, and of course with cabinet parameters Rog already released.
 
Thanx in advance.


-------------
Mike Severloh.


Posted By: Rog
Date Posted: 27 March 2007 at 8:35pm
The problem is Mike that unless Mircea uses the program I used to design the X1 if he uses my tunings and chamber sizes he will not get an accurate sim.
 
I used two programs to do the X1. I used an Akabak script I wrote that takes many things into account, like that both ports are on the floor so the end correction gives a new lower port tuning. I also used a really old and modified version of LEAP that always seems spot on with real measurements.
 
Mircea's plots show the F3L point in the mid 40's, my sims all give an F3L in the mid to low 30's, which is consistant with Vb1. Theres also a plot on this site somewhere of an X1 vs a Lab horn, and the plot dosen't look anything like Mircea's sims. Just found the plot.
 
 
The plots were not taken in ideal condidtions as they were made at a bass shootout. So the location and room placement is reinforcing the low end quite a bit.
 
Rog.


Posted By: ceharden
Date Posted: 27 March 2007 at 9:58pm
Whether or not the plots are exactly as the real thing, you can still tell which drivers are suitable for this type of cabinet.




Posted By: CHAMPION
Date Posted: 28 March 2007 at 6:27am
What about the 21 Version X1 ????
 
Any one made one ? im willing got some PD 2150's ready and standing by
 
http://www.voidaudio.com/product_detail.asp?id=5 - http://www.voidaudio.com/product_detail.asp?id=5
 
 


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Sticks n Stones


Posted By: Mircea Bartic
Date Posted: 01 May 2007 at 12:19am
ROG I am aware that the plots are not ideal, but I used your initial driver to calibrate the software

so all the sims Do show if the drivers will work ok (T/S wise) in that design


-------------
general manager & head designer at nexus-acoustics research
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Ex Nexus_3


Posted By: Mircea Bartic
Date Posted: 01 May 2007 at 12:21am
Originally posted by Mike Severloh Mike Severloh wrote:

Originally posted by Mircea Bartic Mircea Bartic wrote:

Drivers tested, ...
if you need other cones simulated in this designs , just ask

hope this helps

 
Hi Mircea,
 
it indeed does.
 
Personally Id like 2 see simus of the following drivers:
 
PD.186, PDN.18SB40 and PD.18BR40
BMS 18n850 (will withstand 2.5 kw of power, people say)
Beyma 18G480 and 118ndw
18sound 18ND9300
B&C 18TBX100 and 18PZB100
Ciare 18.009
Selenium 18SWS1100 and 18WS600
Dayton PF460
 
, mainly the lightweight neodyms, and of course with cabinet parameters Rog already released.
 
Thanx in advance.


I'll put them in the program as soon as I have some more spare time


-------------
general manager & head designer at nexus-acoustics research
http://www.facebook.com/nexus.acoustics.research" rel="nofollow - http://www.facebook.com/nexus.acoustics.research

Ex Nexus_3


Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 01 May 2007 at 6:43pm
Originally posted by Mircea Bartic Mircea Bartic wrote:


if you need other cones simulated in this designs , just ask


I heard the V18-1000 is the baddest guy on the block in this cab.

Does that mean drivers with similiar specs
(Especially BL/Vas/Xmax/Fs/Coil material) will perform similarily?

Would expedite ideal driver identification me thinks.


-------------
"Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy".


Posted By: al_x
Date Posted: 08 May 2007 at 7:08pm
the x1 is a really brutal box!
 
i had no choice but to load one with an eminence sigma pro (600w) due to short notice
its possibly the worst 18" driver i have come across! the cone is made with something that resembles tracing paper.
 
anyway, we put 800w into it (we also put 800w into the celestion ftr 600w driver and it has been fine!) and it only last about 10-15 hours of use before making very weird farting/rattling noises. we thought it may have been the actual cab as it was newly built, but upon closer inspection, we found that the driver was f**ked!
it now has a huge tear all around the cone.
 
there was no apparent distortion and our amps/mixer/lms never clip.
... hopefully the 186 we picked up will cope with 800w (will it btw?)


Posted By: fuzzylogic
Date Posted: 15 May 2007 at 2:18am
I have four Void V-18 loaded X1's,driven with two bridged JBL MPX1200 3.2k each at four ohm's. Which ive used for a couple of dubstep nights recently,let me tell those who dont know, the power of the X1's is phenomenal and has to be heard to be beleived.They really do move serious amounts of air and in a 150 capacity club do real damage!I stick a block of two side by side with the other two on top in between 2 Martin 115's ,Phili's and 2" JBL's a side.Both times we've had complaints from the council(not good)for noise poll.The 6'x8' reinforced glass windows flex like you wouldn't believe,the streetlights outside the venue rattle ,and when i bumped into the Chef of the kitchen upstairs the next day, said all his chest freezers were moving around!!Thats another thing ,they like to mingle,spent a lot of the night pushing them back to there original positions after they had migrated onto the danefloor!I love 'em.Cheers Rog.

-------------

NEIGHBOURHOOD SOUNDSYSTEM
Infinitely baffled.



Posted By: Ray666
Date Posted: 05 July 2007 at 1:37pm
Ok i think this is the right topic - i was wondering if the l18p300 handles about 1500w + in the x1 or the driver dies?


Posted By: levyte357
Date Posted: 06 July 2007 at 1:21pm
Originally posted by fuzzylogic fuzzylogic wrote:

I have four Void V-18 loaded X1's,driven with two bridged JBL MPX1200 3.2k each at four ohm's. 
 
Thats the way to do it. Headroom City...
 
What are those MPX1200's like? They are supposed to be QSC MX3000a
in JBL clothing. Bit Old school, but I'm thinking about looking at these as well.


-------------
"Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy".


Posted By: fuzzylogic
Date Posted: 06 August 2007 at 9:55pm
Well I dont want to give away a good secret,but they are(in my opinion which is of no consuecence at all ,blah, blah, blah) for the money probably one of the best bargains out there,yes there made by QSC and are quite highly regarded by the profesionals (so im told)I paid £1400 for four spotless MPX 1200's with amp racks worth £200.So £300 each for 3.2K of very clean bass bin battering power.Loads of features, 30hz switchable low pass(Handy for scoops etc...)Stable down to 2 ohms... THX approved...to name a few.They were made to run the big 2x18 4685-8 TCB cabs that JBL used to make in the 90's(so im told again!Of which I have an original pair for sale if anyones interested,to f@#?ing big for me,like two X1's together and then a bit more on top!look awesome but dont deliver as well as my Void V-18 loaded X1's) Anyway I'm very pleased with there peformance.Probably very expensive when new!I was gutted to miss one on ebay that went for just over a ton very recently,apparently stuck in bridge(not a prob)but they didn't even mention the switch on the back!(maybe they didn't know about it).
Thats just between you and me right?

-------------

NEIGHBOURHOOD SOUNDSYSTEM
Infinitely baffled.



Posted By: Mike Severloh
Date Posted: 02 January 2008 at 2:53pm
I´m quite sure you know already, but I got to admit the BMS 18n850 does a pretty good job in an X1.
Seems to have moderate efficiency, which lies in between the PD.186 and the big SAMMI 18" ( which sounds good but is not as loud as the others ).

All in all my X1 now is very lightweight, so I can handle this modular 4way stack alone again (the rest being smaller horns).


-------------
Mike Severloh.


Posted By: the rock
Date Posted: 09 January 2008 at 1:17pm
Hi Every one
 
Do you know how well a 15" works in a X1 enclosure?
 
Do you know the dimension of the cabinet? If you do please can you help me. I want to build one with a 15" speaker
 
Thanks


Posted By: skyrockhifi
Date Posted: 02 February 2008 at 10:52am
My mates got 2 of these X1 boxes and they really do rock!
Especially when playing Leviticus - Burial


Posted By: cangok
Date Posted: 14 March 2008 at 7:15pm
Originally posted by Mircea Bartic Mircea Bartic wrote:



if you need other cones simulated in this designs , just ask

hope this helps



is it possible to simulate the pd 1850

tnx in advanceClap


Posted By: Mircea Bartic
Date Posted: 14 March 2008 at 7:34pm


-------------
general manager & head designer at nexus-acoustics research
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Ex Nexus_3


Posted By: HansA
Date Posted: 16 April 2008 at 11:14pm
Could someone modell the Eminence Sigma 18? http://www.eminence.com/proaudio_speaker_detail.asp?web_detail_link=SIGMAPRO18A-2&speaker_size=18&SUB_CAT_ID=1 - http://www.eminence.com/proaudio_speaker_detail.asp?web_detail_link=SIGMAPRO18A-2&speaker_size=18&SUB_CAT_ID=1

When i do it in Lineateam.dk's onlinethingie it actually turns out usable.
But what about Xmax, dips, cone quality and so forth.

Would it be of any use to throw two together with the Sigma driver?


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�*�o�O�o�*�*: HansA, The FUBAR sound technician :*�*�o�O�o�*�


Posted By: tweeter box
Date Posted: 17 April 2008 at 8:49pm
Has anybody modelled a PD1850 in this box or is it not compatible?

-------------
PRECISION SOUND SYSTEM.

Feeding the peoples needs for Roots Music.

Strictly premium grade reggae and dub steppers from the early 70's to present day.


Posted By: Jake_Fielder
Date Posted: 17 April 2008 at 8:57pm
Is it not 2 posts above you?


Posted By: tweeter box
Date Posted: 21 April 2008 at 4:38pm
Originally posted by Jake_Fielder Jake_Fielder wrote:

Is it not 2 posts above you?
 
Is it? If it is then its not labeled so i wouldnt know!!


-------------
PRECISION SOUND SYSTEM.

Feeding the peoples needs for Roots Music.

Strictly premium grade reggae and dub steppers from the early 70's to present day.


Posted By: Mircea Bartic
Date Posted: 21 April 2008 at 8:45pm
it's the 1850 in that post

-------------
general manager & head designer at nexus-acoustics research
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Ex Nexus_3


Posted By: tweeter box
Date Posted: 21 April 2008 at 8:51pm
Originally posted by Mircea Bartic Mircea Bartic wrote:

it's the 1850 in that post
 
Thanks for clarifying that Mircea Smile


-------------
PRECISION SOUND SYSTEM.

Feeding the peoples needs for Roots Music.

Strictly premium grade reggae and dub steppers from the early 70's to present day.


Posted By: Mike Severloh
Date Posted: 03 May 2008 at 2:05pm
[QUOTE=the rock]Hi Every one
 
Do you know how well a 15" works in a X1 enclosure?
 
Do you know the dimension of the cabinet? If you do please can you help me. I want to build one with a 15" speaker...
/QUOTE]

Hi, I built one using an enclosure I already had. Outline was like a Community VB790:

tunnels were straight, both 38cm long
chambers were damped, being

48 l , 400 cm² tunnel
140 l, 260 cm² tunnel

Chassis: I used a cheapo, the Raveland AXX1515, which would hold  440 W "linear" till Xmax in there. Sounds - deep.

Better choices:
Ciare 15.00SW, 600 W, or even
BMS 15n840-4, 900 W, giving 124 dB/32 Hz, calculated linear, cold voice coil.

The cab is used as a drumfill infra, doing a great job between 31 and 85 Hz. Extreme hipass filter necessary for full power, of course.


-------------
Mike Severloh.


Posted By: chrissnow
Date Posted: 17 May 2008 at 10:15pm
I dont seem to be able to find any results for the v18-1000, a lot of people seem to like them but their doesnt appear to be a result, or I keep missing it!
If someone could provide them that would be great.
Thanks


Posted By: tintin
Date Posted: 05 June 2008 at 5:07pm

hello I would to know if the electrovoice evx 150 work good with this cabinet, I would like make four x1, thanksTongue



Posted By: Mircea Bartic
Date Posted: 05 June 2008 at 5:51pm
X1 needs an 18"woofer

-------------
general manager & head designer at nexus-acoustics research
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Ex Nexus_3


Posted By: tehmalakai
Date Posted: 14 August 2008 at 12:53am
How would an Eminence Sigma Pro-18A-2 work in the x1?  Yeah, I'm kinda on a tight budget...

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=290-427&ctab=2#Tabs - http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=290-427&ctab=2#Tabs


Posted By: Longhorn
Date Posted: 27 August 2008 at 1:10pm
I would LOVE to see a simulation with JBL 2243H - Please!  Tongue

T/S: http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=10653 - http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=10653


Posted By: wafflesomd
Date Posted: 16 September 2008 at 9:25pm
Well, tehmalakai is a personal friend.

The Sigma Pro does OK in the X1.  It will take 600w but not for very long.

400-500w seemed to be pretty safe.


Posted By: AquariusDJ
Date Posted: 08 October 2008 at 5:00pm
Has anyone tried X1 with RCF L18P300 driver? Can someone post graph of this driver?


Posted By: boldsystems
Date Posted: 25 November 2008 at 11:20pm
just curious if anyone has tryed loading X1's with B&C 18NW100's? and if they would work / be efficent?


Posted By: Deadbeat
Date Posted: 26 November 2008 at 10:38am
With the X1, it really is a question of cone strength.

-------------
Away on extended leave.


Posted By: Zollax
Date Posted: 26 November 2008 at 12:13pm
Has anyone tried to make the cone stronger with glue or something? would it work? Wink


Posted By: H...
Date Posted: 11 December 2008 at 7:04am
Anyone sim'd the new p-audio 18" for the X1?


Posted By: jonny4288
Date Posted: 11 December 2008 at 2:38pm
Be interested to see the new fane colossus 18-1000 tested/simmed in the x1
 
http://www.fane-acoustics.com/pdfs/Colossus18-1000_SpecSheet.pdf - http://www.fane-acoustics.com/pdfs/Colossus18-1000_SpecSheet.pdf
 
 


Posted By: jonny4288
Date Posted: 11 December 2008 at 2:41pm
Originally posted by jonny4288 jonny4288 wrote:

Be interested to see the new fane colossus 18-1000 tested/simmed in the x1
 
http://www.fane-acoustics.com/pdfs/Colossus18-1000_SpecSheet.pdf - http://www.fane-acoustics.com/pdfs/Colossus18-1000_SpecSheet.pdf
 
 
 
In addition to that thew new 1200 model would be probably more worth while to see, meant to be a very good pd1850 alternative


Posted By: wafflesomd
Date Posted: 12 January 2009 at 4:00pm
Originally posted by wafflesomd wafflesomd wrote:

Well, tehmalakai is a personal friend.

The Sigma Pro does OK in the X1.  It will take 600w but not for very long.

400-500w seemed to be pretty safe.


A quick update. 

Turns out we were running it at about 25%.  I applied some coats of some speaker protector and that strengthened the cone considerably.   It takes 700w constant now.  More resistance = higher power handling.


Posted By: massisoda
Date Posted: 14 January 2009 at 3:39pm
I have the same questin,nobody had try with RCF L18P300

-------------
Italian Sound


Posted By: jahseriah
Date Posted: 05 February 2009 at 2:09pm
can someone please compute a simulation of the Celestion ftr18-4080fd driver please




Posted By: Zollax
Date Posted: 05 February 2009 at 7:15pm
Originally posted by wafflesomd wafflesomd wrote:



Turns out we were running it at about 25%.  I applied some coats of some speaker protector and that strengthened the cone considerably.   It takes 700w constant now.  More resistance = higher power handling.


Where can i buy this cone strengthener?


Posted By: Lincoln1
Date Posted: 20 March 2009 at 9:31pm
I see someone is asking about the RCF L18P300 compatibility. Well I want to rebuild my 6th order cabs and would be interested in the X1.
My drivers are all RCF  L18P200N. If you can do this you'll have a friend for life.


Posted By: wafflesomd
Date Posted: 21 March 2009 at 3:16pm
Originally posted by Zollax Zollax wrote:

Originally posted by wafflesomd wafflesomd wrote:



Turns out we were running it at about 25%.  I applied some coats of some speaker protector and that strengthened the cone considerably.   It takes 700w constant now.  More resistance = higher power handling.


Where can i buy this cone strengthener?


It's just mod podge.  You can paint it on to the cone.  It will add more weight to cone and make it stiffer.


Posted By: Rotorbar
Date Posted: 20 May 2009 at 3:23am
< ="-" ="text/; =utf-8">< name="ProgId" ="Word.">< name="Generator" ="Microsoft Word 11">< name="Originator" ="Microsoft Word 11">

Rog,
I like this design.  You did a good job.  I've been thinking of using 18LW1400's in it.  I plotted it in WinISD, but my plots are spikier than yours, with peaks at 45 hz and 90 hz but the two drivers' plots lay about the same, so I suspect this is a good driver for the application.  The 45 Hz spike is about a dB higher with the 18 sound driver.  I could not get the clips of the plots to show on this posting.  Can you comment on the viability of the 18LW1400?


By the way, I have no fantastic preference for this driver, but I notice there is little or no mention of it on this website.  Is there some general deficiency with it?  I though EAW got pretty good results with it.

 

Regards,

Rotorbar





Posted By: TechnoChef
Date Posted: 30 May 2009 at 3:59pm
Originally posted by Mircea Bartic Mircea Bartic wrote:

Drivers tested, and found not to be usable in this design, even with alterations to the ports are:

P-audio C18-600LF
P-audio P-18N

is looks like there are some really cheap driver that can perform in this enclosure

remember, DO NOT OVERDRIVE these speakers, especially the cheaper ones because the X1 is a very brutal bandpass with uneven loading of the cone and severe unloading outside the operating range.

if you need other cones simulated in this designs , just ask

hope this helps

 
Any chance of a sim for a Beyma 18 G550 in an X1 cab?
 
 


-------------
I think I'm in love with your mum.


Posted By: Saul
Date Posted: 19 July 2009 at 5:28pm
has anyone got any of the group delay graphs for any drivers in this box? 


Posted By: jerronimo
Date Posted: 25 August 2009 at 6:26pm
Would like to see a sim of the RCF LF18N401 I'm running them in a BR cabinet atm but would like to know if they are also suitable for the X1


Posted By: k2musicman
Date Posted: 25 August 2009 at 9:46pm
How about Turbomax plots?


Posted By: Sequence Empire:::..
Date Posted: 31 August 2009 at 5:15am
Originally posted by jerronimo jerronimo wrote:

Would like to see a sim of the RCF LF18N401 I'm running them in a BR cabinet atm but would like to know if they are also suitable for the X1


This, or,
RCFl18P400 going to be any good here?


Posted By: kenclasix
Date Posted: 14 October 2009 at 7:56am
Hey guys, newbie here. Would a be compatible with this X1 bin??? http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-EMI-DP18-LIST -   http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-EMI-DP18-LISt


Posted By: hond
Date Posted: 20 October 2009 at 5:56pm
http://www.thomann.de/be/eminence_kilomax_pro_18.htm - EMINENCE KILOMAX PRO 18 A
http://www.thomann.de/be/eminence_omega_pro_18.htm - EMINENCE OMEGA PRO-18

would these guys do OK?


Posted By: Ray666
Date Posted: 18 December 2009 at 7:47am
OK - its been about 2 and a half year since my last post on this topic - for information - i have used L18P300-s in them for that long and they have got about 1k per box with a hp filter on 33hz l-r 48db/oct they are fine now, but one unqualified disc jokey cliped my amps for them when i didnt hade the lim yet and the inductance have lowered to 5 ish ohms per box :D - still working, but might need a new recone soon... as long as you dont clip the drivers you dont need to worry about lifetime period!


Posted By: nightmare1337
Date Posted: 31 March 2010 at 3:05pm
Hey @ all,

What about the RCF L18S801 ?? It's control would be better but it can't play that low as V1000 or sth else.
And I also have two of LF18G400. Does anybody know how they would run in the Bins ?

Greetings from Germany :-)


Posted By: djyves
Date Posted: 31 March 2010 at 7:14pm
Originally posted by hond hond wrote:

http://www.thomann.de/be/eminence_kilomax_pro_18.htm - EMINENCE KILOMAX PRO 18 A
http://www.thomann.de/be/eminence_omega_pro_18.htm - EMINENCE OMEGA PRO-18

would these guys do OK?

I have read that most eminence drivers would not survive in an X1, because the cones cant handle the pressure. In other words: they die. So i should say buy other (better) drivers. 

Yves


-------------
"If brute force doesn't work, you're just not using enough!"


Posted By: ONV78
Date Posted: 31 March 2010 at 9:13pm
Hi

Quote What about the RCF L18S801


The S801 is not the best driver fore the X1 void sounds much better.

The G400 work realy good in the X1.

Ps. The controle from the void is much better then the s801

Wo kommst du denn her ? Kannst gern mal probehören und den G400 mal selbst testenWink

Pps. Kanns sein das wir uns kennen LOL

MFG ONV


Posted By: nightmare1337
Date Posted: 01 April 2010 at 4:18pm
Hey,
Ja Daniel, wir kennen uns.

Wollte nur mal fragen, ob der Threadersteller den G400 und den S801 mit seinem Programm testen könnte.

Aber ehrlich: Ich kann mir nicht vorstellen, dass dein Void saubere spielt. Der RCF wird doch gerade dafür so gelobt, dass er für nen 18" extrem sauber spielt.

Grüße aus Karlsruhe


Posted By: ONV78
Date Posted: 02 April 2010 at 10:00am

Ich hab gedacht du meinst das die pappe sich unter controlle hat sprich verhalten auserhalb X-max oder ähnliches the hat der void vorteile wegen doppelzentrierung und größerem Antrieb.
Sauberer spielt sicher der S801.

Der G400 und der s801 werden nicht so controlliert spielen wie der void the fast gleiches pappengewicht (beim G400) bei weniger antrieb und einfacher zentrierung ob man das in nem Bandpass hört ist die andere Frage LOL.

Ps: Ich komme doch aufs Forentreffen hab cheffe überreden können.


Posted By: vzummer
Date Posted: 18 April 2010 at 3:13pm

Mircea Bartic, I am thinking of using following driver fox X1 box:

MAG M1801

M.A.G. (MAG) M1801, made in the Ukraine

http://www.magnet.com.ua/en/loudspeakers/M1801.html - http://www.magnet.com.ua/en/loudspeakers/M1801.html

Power Handling (AES)  1000 W
Frequency Range  30-500 Hz
Sensitivity (1W/1m)  97 dB

It's essential parameters are close to recommended:

Fs  Hz  32,3
Vas  L  221,5
Qts  0,3
Qes  0,31
Qms  9,8
Re  Ohm  6,2
Bl  Tm  30,7
Sd  cm^2  1195
Mms  g  229,5
Xmax  mm  9,5
L  mH 3,2
h  %  2,38

Surely, this is not a hi-end device, but it's pretty reliable in common reflex boxes, and other boxes, too (this is true for most of company's products). It' priced about $170.

What could you say about this? Maybe, it could be given somewhat 700-1000 W, not exceeding nominal. Maybe, apply some strengthening compound on it (how much will the clarity and quality of sound be worsen/affected) ?

Thanks everybody!

greetings from Belarus



Posted By: Mircea Bartic
Date Posted: 20 April 2010 at 7:23am


it works well, no modifications necesary


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Posted By: Mircea Bartic
Date Posted: 20 April 2010 at 7:27am
BTW

anyone that wants simulations for their drivers must post the question in the folowing way

name of the speaker, and T/S parameters in the folowing order.

Fs
Qms
Vas
Xmax
Sd
Qes
Re
Le
Z
Pe (power RMS/AES)

This will help me cut a lot of the time involved in looking for specks for every driver.




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Posted By: The Builder
Date Posted: 20 April 2010 at 8:49am
Thank you

-------------
It just is.


Posted By: barr
Date Posted: 10 May 2010 at 9:58pm
beyma 18P1000
 
 32
 19.7
 245
 8
 0.1200
 0.37
 6.2
 6
 1000 AES
 
 
thank you


Posted By: Mircea Bartic
Date Posted: 10 May 2010 at 10:10pm

no X-max problems @1000W


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Posted By: barr
Date Posted: 11 May 2010 at 9:32pm
thank you!
Your recommendations:
max power with no excursion problems @HP 35Hz 24dB  LP 80Hz 24dB ?????????


Posted By: Mircea Bartic
Date Posted: 11 May 2010 at 10:00pm
yes
if you use a steep 24 db/oct highpass , than there ar no problems in the 35Hz-80Hz passband


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Posted By: barr
Date Posted: 11 May 2010 at 10:21pm
...and max recommended amplifier power is ?


Posted By: jerronimo
Date Posted: 26 May 2010 at 7:27pm
http://oem.ciare.com/it/297/372/prodotti.php - http://oem.ciare.com/it/297/372/prodotti.php
Stumbled upon this woofer from caire, the 18.00 SW
It has some interresting specs:
 
THIELE-SMALL PARAMETERS
Qms 11,16
Qes 0,47
Qts 0,45
Fs 36,40 Hz
Re 6,80 Ohm
Mms 371 g
Cms 0,05 m/N
Bl 35,11 Wb/m
Sd 0,1104 m²
Vas 0,08811 m³
u0 0,88 %
XMax 14 mm
Le 1,72 mH
 
As you can see a very high BL!
Í'm not very good in simulating drivers, but I wonder what this would do in a X1?


Posted By: Mircea Bartic
Date Posted: 30 May 2010 at 10:49pm


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Posted By: jerronimo
Date Posted: 31 May 2010 at 12:12pm
Thank you Mircea, not that great I see would have expected more SPL from this driver.
Still got some RCF LF18N401's that I do not use at the moment
T/S:
Fs 32
Qms 6.5
Vas 257
Xmax 8.8
Sd 0.122
Qes 0.27
Re 5.1
Le 2.5
Z ?
Pe 1200
 
What can you tell me about this one?


Posted By: Mircea Bartic
Date Posted: 31 May 2010 at 3:43pm


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Ex Nexus_3


Posted By: nightmare1337
Date Posted: 08 June 2010 at 4:53pm
Hey,
What about the RCF LF18G400 ?
Is my Peavey CS 4080 good enough for 4 x X1 with the RCF ?
How to config the Behringer DCX with the Driver ?

TSP:
Fs        28
Qms        4.6
Vas        360
Xmax        9.0
Sd        0.122
Qes        0.29
Re        5.1
Le        2.5
Z        ???
Pe (power RMS/AES) 1000 / 2000

http://www.rcf.it/c/document_library/get_file?p_l_id=251789&folderId=22488&name=DLFE-2217.pdf

Thank you for your work !! Very kind :)

Greetings from Germany


Posted By: djyves
Date Posted: 08 June 2010 at 8:13pm
Z = 8 ohm

-------------
"If brute force doesn't work, you're just not using enough!"


Posted By: Mircea Bartic
Date Posted: 08 June 2010 at 9:02pm



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Ex Nexus_3


Posted By: ONV78
Date Posted: 09 June 2010 at 9:30pm
Hi

Can you please make a Simulation with the void V18-1000 ?

I could not find a simulation with the void

Fs          : 34,53
Qms       : 7,634
Vas        : 201.72
Xmax     : 9,5mm
Sd         : 0,1230
Qes       : 0,2218
Re         : 5,5000
Le         : 1.1848 mH @ 20KHz       2.2024 mH @ 1KHz
Z           : 8 Ohm
Pe (power RMS/AES) :1000W



thanks fore youre work Thumbs Up

keep on rocking ONV78


-------------
Dolphins are gay Sharks


Posted By: Mircea Bartic
Date Posted: 10 June 2010 at 8:33am


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Posted By: jerronimo
Date Posted: 10 June 2010 at 10:06am
Interesting plot of that void driver, not very smooth responce, and no significant SPL gain compaired to other simmed drivers, or can this driver handle more watt's input before reaching it's xmax?
Alot of people on here realy like the void in the X1, but why?
What make's this driver so special, compaired to ''modern'' neo drivers?


Posted By: Mircea Bartic
Date Posted: 10 June 2010 at 10:24am
the programs used for simulations only predict the response based on some simple electromechanical constants suplied by the manufacturers.

In real life most drivers react diferently at different frequencies and loadings. BL varies significantly for example

the void with it's massive magnetic motor might be better designed am could mantain better control at higher excursions than a normal NEO WOOFER that sims better.

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Ex Nexus_3


Posted By: Pirlo
Date Posted: 27 July 2010 at 2:40pm
Maybe read over, but have we a simulation of the pd.1851 yet!?

Shure ya all know, but here the tsp again:
 Fs    34 Hz
 Re    5.4 Ohms
 Qts    0.29
 Qms    15.81
 Qes    0.3
 Vas    182 Litres
 Mms    231.4 g
 Sd    11506 cm2
 Cms    96 &
 BL    31 T/m
 Xmax    12 mm
 Vd    1.31 Litres
 Reference Efficiency 0.0288     

Got two x1 letterbox here (almost ready) and don't shure wich drivers to use (1850, 1851, v18-1200).
If someone can do a frequency-plot with all three it would be great!


Posted By: Mircea Bartic
Date Posted: 27 July 2010 at 6:32pm
put the other driver's Ts over here like for the 1851 and I'll make a comparative graph

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Posted By: Pirlo
Date Posted: 27 July 2010 at 9:11pm
1850 (but it's in this thread allready, thanks anyhow)
 Fs    30 Hz
 Xmax    11.25 mm
 Revc    5.4 Ohms
 Vd    13 x 10-4 m3
 Qts    0.21
 No    2.88%
 Qms    6.04
 Pmx    800 Watts
 Qes    0.22
 Cms    133 µM/N
 Vas    249 Litres
 Mms    216.4 grams
 Sd     1150 sq cm
 BL    31.57 T/m

v18-1200
Product Data

  • Fs 30Hz
  • Qms 5.779
  • Vas 289.5 liters
  • Cms 0.152 mm/N
  • Mms 196 g
  • Rms 6.214 Kg/s
  • Sd 1158 sq cm
  • Qts 0.322
  • Qes 0.341
  • Re 5.3 ohms
  • Le 2.49 mH
  • BL 23.63 Tm
  • no 2.21 %
  • SPL 95.6 dB
  • Xmax 12.95 mm
  • Xmech 19.43 mm
  • Pwr 1200 w rms, 1400 w AES
  • Depth 204 mm
  • Diameter 463 mm
and the v18-1000 to have it all. Big smile
Fo - 34.5312Hz
Qts - 0.2155
Qms - 7.6346
Qes - 0.2218
Vas - 201.7245 Litres
BL - 34.8880 TM
no - 3.6212%
Sd - 0.1230 sqM
Xmax - 10.5mm
Pwr - 1000 Watts RMS
Cms - 93.8967 uM/N
Mms - 226.2389 Grams (Total mass)
Mmd - 201.4347 Grams (Diaphragm Mass)
Re - 5.5000 Ohms
Le - 1.1848 mH @ 20KHz
Le - 2.2024 mH @ 1KHz
zo - 194.8128 Ohms
Rem - 9.4005 Ohms Res @ 1KHz
Rem - 49.2902 Ohms Res @ 20KHz
Krm - 74.5321 mOhms
Kxm - 13.4542 mH
Erm - 0.5531 (resis expont)
Exm - 0.7931 (resis expont)


If someone feel talkactive to tell wich driver to prefer "today" fell free to tell me. Wink



Posted By: Mircea Bartic
Date Posted: 28 July 2010 at 10:10am


all other graps are virtually identical , Xmax, Gd, and others


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Posted By: Pirlo
Date Posted: 28 July 2010 at 11:17am
Hmm, assumed that after a look on the TSPs already, make the choise not easier.
Thanks for ya expense!


Posted By: Mircea Bartic
Date Posted: 28 July 2010 at 11:33am
V18-1200 seems the best 

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Posted By: B.F.G
Date Posted: 10 August 2010 at 12:43am
Hello there Mircea!
 
If you could please model this driver i'd be most happy:
 
B&C NW100

Fs: 34 Hz
Qms: 8.0
Vas: 227 L
Xmax: 9.0 mm
Sd: 1210 cm2
Qes: 0.29
Re: 5.1 ohms
Le: 1.9 mH
Z: 8.0 ohms
Pe: 1000 RMS
 
Cheers!


Posted By: shem1
Date Posted: 19 August 2010 at 5:27pm
could you simulate the pd 186 in the x1 for me if possible?Smile


Posted By: xcn
Date Posted: 16 September 2010 at 1:18pm
Please model the following driver for me.

Fane Colossus 18XB

Fs 33Hz
Qms 5.77
Vas 236
Xmax 7.5
Sd 1131
Qes 0.358
Re 6.5
Le ..
Z 8
Pe 800W RMS
Qts 0.337
Vd 0.803
Efficiency 2.357


-------------
Dr X


Posted By: Mircea Bartic
Date Posted: 16 September 2010 at 2:54pm
Originally posted by shem1 shem1 wrote:

could you simulate the pd 186 in the x1 for me if possible?Smile


plase post the parameters in the indicated order



B&C NW100 - yellow
Fane Colossus 18XB - blue



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Ex Nexus_3


Posted By: james4001
Date Posted: 17 November 2010 at 11:36pm
Hi i would also like to see the PD.186 modeled in the X1 (specs below), would it be possible to plot against the Fane Colossus 18XB (specs posted above) and state if safe to run at 900W without dangerous cone excursion.

Fs 27hz
Qms 7.75
Vas 353l
Xmax 10.5mm
Sd 1150 cm2
Qes 9.326
Re 5.5 Ohms
Le
Z 8 Ohms
Pe 700

Also would there be any difference in response between the PD.186 8ohm and 4ohm version? I ask because i could run a pair off one amp at 4ohm but would need another amp if i use the 8ohm version. I had been looking at the Fane Colossus 18B-600 as it is a reasonable price and seems to have a stiffer cone than the XB, less likely to rip apart in the X1 as a few people seem to think this cab is rough on drivers. Especially drivers with paper cones, does anyone think the PD/186 and the Colossus XB are unsuitable in the X1?

Thanks, James


Posted By: Djcubed
Date Posted: 21 January 2011 at 6:44am
Hi there, I have Pm'd you too, but I tought I would do it here too so that if you do honor my request, others can see the results aswell.  Would you be so kind as to model the X1 with this driver please, thank you.

Fane Colossus 18-1000

Fs :32 Hz
Qms: 6.8
Vas: 236 Ltr
Xmax : 12.75
Sd : 1178 cm2
Qes : 0.336
Re : 5.8 Ohms
Pe : 1000W
Qts : 0.32
Vd : 1.5 Litres
Efficiency : 2.4%
B/L T/m : 2.6


Posted By: Mircea Bartic
Date Posted: 21 January 2011 at 8:42am
Fane collosus 18-1000



PD.186



graph looks very bad with the PD



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