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Hog Scoop Driver

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Category: Plans
Forum Name: Scoops
Forum Description: One scoop or two ;-)
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=93241
Printed Date: 28 March 2024 at 12:10pm
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Topic: Hog Scoop Driver
Posted By: renzelkouten
Subject: Hog Scoop Driver
Date Posted: 11 September 2015 at 10:16am
Morning,

Know this has been done to death... but i've got a choice to make, so I'd like to ask for a bit of advice. Just after 2 x drivers for my hog scoops - i've searched around a bit and seems like for my budget I've got a choice of:

- 2 x 18 sound LW1400 (£180 each used)
- 2 x PD1850 (£200 each used)
- 2 x Void V18-1000 (£220 each new)

I've used the Voids before and been happy with them so tempted just to go with them, at moment the Hogs have t-nuts for the PD1850s so that is swaying me that way a little.

Main thing is which will sound best, i'll be playing reggae and dub through 'em.


Cheers
Nicky



Replies:
Posted By: all bass
Date Posted: 11 September 2015 at 10:33am
You could simulate your driver choices to see the predicted performance. The sound is a very subjective thing, what sounds best for me might not really be your thing at all.

My advise would be to go with the Void 1000 since you state that you have been happy with them. They also offer good value for money as new drivers are roughly in the same price bracket as the other two in used condition.

I know it's blasphemy to simulate (or measure Shocked) a scoop. But here  http://www.freespeakerplans.com/forum/38-hosted-plans/5466-hog-scoop#13970" rel="nofollow - https://www.freespeakerplans.com/forum/38-hosted-plans/5466-hog-scoop#13970 are the Hornresp inputs if you want to go that route...


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https://www.instagram.com/my_modular_journey/


Posted By: renzelkouten
Date Posted: 11 September 2015 at 11:29am
thanks for that all bass... i think your right, makes sense to get the new Voids

i know the 18sound are pretty much mint and the PD1850s though used have always been well looked after (no clipping etc).

if you go from the 6 hole spacing that i currently have in the hogs to the 8 hole that the voids use is it best to just put in some more t- nuts?


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dub it up


Posted By: all bass
Date Posted: 11 September 2015 at 12:03pm
Originally posted by renzelkouten renzelkouten wrote:

if you go from the 6 hole spacing that i currently have in the hogs to the 8 hole that the voids use is it best to just put in some more t- nuts?
I would rotate the driver so that you can use 8X new t-nuts.


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https://www.instagram.com/my_modular_journey/


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 11 September 2015 at 12:14pm
Experience has taught few of us, Scoop Sims don't line up with real life testing, in terms of freq resp/low end extension.

Hornresp stated Void V18-1200 would sound tremendous in ASS RX18, was actually awful/didn't work.
In right cab, driver was immense.

Would suggest you put flat head screws in PD tnuts, and as suggested previously, re-tnut baffle for standard 18" bolt pattern.

That way you can test drivers you are interested in. Or just revert back to PD bolt pattern for PDs.

V18-1000, will need outer edge of cut out widening.

I have some drivers for sale, which will out perform V18-1000/PD1850 in Scoops.

PM for more details.Embarrassed



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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: all bass
Date Posted: 11 September 2015 at 12:27pm
Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

I have some drivers for sale, which will out perform V18-1000/PD1850 in Scoops.

PM for more details.Embarrassed
Are these drivers the new universal scoop driver? Or outperforming V18-1000 in hogs?


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https://www.instagram.com/my_modular_journey/


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 11 September 2015 at 1:12pm
Originally posted by all bass all bass wrote:

Are these drivers the new universal scoop driver? Or outperforming V18-1000 in hogs?


Some drivers excel in Scoops & FLH, others in Reflex.

Some drivers excel in some Scoop designs, and are mediocre in others.

Smart people, identify the right driver for their cab, based on desired freq resp, number of subs, music choice, sub amp output rating, and typical venue power supply. Embarrassed


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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: Sypa
Date Posted: 11 September 2015 at 3:51pm
Im gonna play the game and not gonna mention the name of the drivers (but im probably guessing correctly which one Lev is talking about ) .

If i am , i have six hogs loaded with them and they kick butts. Pure sub sound,not so warm but immense pressure and spl and i like the sound its really really clean and sharp. Suits my current taste.

Hell,they even play techno nicely now LOL.


Posted By: app
Date Posted: 11 September 2015 at 4:06pm
Obertons maybe?




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"what!?"


Posted By: mini-mad
Date Posted: 11 September 2015 at 4:40pm
Why are you idiots being so sodding secretive??

Just tell him the make and model of the driver your talking about and let a few other people try them out....



....i thought this forum was ment to be helpful. Its gettin more and more childish as time goes on.


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If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.


Posted By: Sypa
Date Posted: 11 September 2015 at 4:43pm
Hey hey .     


Posted By: Sypa
Date Posted: 11 September 2015 at 4:46pm
I always found the secrecy around scoop and sscoop drivers hilarious,excuse me. And yes im talking about xb1500.


Posted By: renzelkouten
Date Posted: 11 September 2015 at 4:50pm
does the XB1500 need a lot of juice to make it sound sweet? i.e. more than the 1850/voids?


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dub it up


Posted By: Sypa
Date Posted: 11 September 2015 at 4:54pm
I havent found that to be true in my case tbh,I know people said they need some to get out of bed. Played heavy with 1 kw up their butt just fine. Always better more boxes than more juice.


Posted By: Sypa
Date Posted: 11 September 2015 at 5:01pm
I think im actually the first to fry them. Hanged off a bridged 4050 and stupidly left without supervision to some fools. Not in hogs tho. So they arent indestructible.


Posted By: valve head777
Date Posted: 11 September 2015 at 5:10pm
i was going to guess Fane, but thought better of it!!

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Freedom of choice, choice of freedom.


Posted By: mini-mad
Date Posted: 11 September 2015 at 5:48pm
Originally posted by Sypa Sypa wrote:

I think im actually the first to fry them. Hanged off a bridged 4050 and stupidly left without supervision to some fools. Not in hogs tho. So they arent indestructible.


i think thats the 1st time iv seen that word used correctly! lol

iv been looking at those too and wondered is my cubo15s would like a little taste.....

edit. the baffle is just shy and i couldnt get the driver shoe-horned in CryCryCry





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If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.


Posted By: paulus
Date Posted: 11 September 2015 at 6:02pm
I witnessed testing in hog v1000 and 1850, go for 1850 :)

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TRENDSETTER SOUND SYSTEM


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 11 September 2015 at 7:17pm
Hmmm, 4050 is 4000W bridged at 4 ohms. They should be able to take that power with no problem.

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Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: Sypa
Date Posted: 11 September 2015 at 7:46pm
Yeah if not clipped to the max which was the case,it was my fault was too tired and fell asleep lol. Only 2 fried so not so bad. And dub was playing


Posted By: Dub Specialist Sound
Date Posted: 11 September 2015 at 7:56pm
So how much then are the Orb recones?

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Musical Roots Reggae Vibration is Life! for music is sound...sound is vibration...vibration is energy... and energy begets life. Therein lies my passion!...MUSIC IS LIFE...


Posted By: Sypa
Date Posted: 12 September 2015 at 12:35pm
The orb? Smile

110 pounds a piece on blue aran. Im having trouble getting them where i live.


Posted By: bass*en*mass
Date Posted: 13 September 2015 at 1:11am
its hard to source a hungarian product in croatia? its your neighbors..




Posted By: mini-mad
Date Posted: 13 September 2015 at 1:17am
Originally posted by bass*en*mass bass*en*mass wrote:

its hard to source a hungarian product in croatia? its your neighbors..
... driver across the boarder and go buy them!




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If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 13 September 2015 at 3:34am
They are not Hungarian.

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Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: JR.junior
Date Posted: 13 September 2015 at 12:15pm
Come to me, I have PD1850 mk1 unboxed.


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Support the scoop technology, larger mouth plays louder!


Posted By: bass*en*mass
Date Posted: 13 September 2015 at 5:33pm
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

They are not Hungarian.


oops, my bad, somehow seem to mix it up constantly - Bulgaria it is of course :)


Posted By: Dub Specialist Sound
Date Posted: 13 September 2015 at 11:34pm
wow 110£ each thats cheap tbh on the Orbs

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Musical Roots Reggae Vibration is Life! for music is sound...sound is vibration...vibration is energy... and energy begets life. Therein lies my passion!...MUSIC IS LIFE...


Posted By: renzelkouten
Date Posted: 14 September 2015 at 11:28am
Originally posted by JR.junior JR.junior wrote:

Come to me, I have PD1850 mk1 unboxed.


Some 2nd hand PD1850s would be great, I'm based in UK though.... can't seem to get my profile to update......


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dub it up


Posted By: JR.junior
Date Posted: 14 September 2015 at 11:53am
I can send you to england, but they are reserved till wendnesday.


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Support the scoop technology, larger mouth plays louder!


Posted By: paulus
Date Posted: 14 September 2015 at 12:20pm
the 1851 was also very very good in the hog,tho needs some power up it

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TRENDSETTER SOUND SYSTEM


Posted By: Father-Francis
Date Posted: 14 September 2015 at 9:38pm
I haven't been running me hogs for awhile now , some rental guy is renting them , but I say one thing , if you rent out your system and bands play live music for it , V1000 anytime , 1850/1851/2 won't give you real sound in hogs , they'l sound like hogs playing in mad , Trust me . drum an bass dubstep all that shit go PD , small club sub/bass Fane/void . I'l just take my jacket , and hat . 

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Music is the strongest form of magic.(+45 31879997)blakmanpro@gmail.com, foa@sweetboxaudio.dk


Posted By: mini-mad
Date Posted: 15 September 2015 at 12:05am
I think once some one described the voids as musical and the PDs as a hammer. You wana bang out EDM you go PD, you want it to sound "live" go void.


Just read it of hear once...... can you not borrow a pair of each and have a little play?



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If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 15 September 2015 at 12:11am
Void V18-1000, is the closest thing, there has ever been, to a "universal" Scoop driver.

Plays in all Scoops, but in few cabs, Couple of the PDs play lower notes with more ease, also 1x "other" driver I have come across, in the right cab, plays lower, just as loud, but handles higher power input.


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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: renzelkouten
Date Posted: 15 September 2015 at 9:29am
interesting opinions - thank you

i'd definitely go with the Voids but i'm just in a bit of a rush to get them setup for weekend after next and cutting the extra 40mm on the cut-out is putting me off..... we play mainly modern roots music with some classics and a bit of dub/dubsteppy stuff so the more musical the better.... i've only got a matrix xt5000g at the mo to hang one hog off each side at mo so will be playing it safe till i get a beefier amp in terms of output level

is there any other suitable drivers that would drop in the same chassis cut out as the PD1850?

also Father-Francis which Fane is suitable for the Hog (the XB?), I was not aware there was one.


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dub it up


Posted By: paulus
Date Posted: 15 September 2015 at 10:13am
Heard few people using the sb1000 tuff cone and high sensitivity

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TRENDSETTER SOUND SYSTEM


Posted By: renzelkouten
Date Posted: 15 September 2015 at 2:00pm
not seen them on my radar before, cheers

bit off tangent, anyone used the B&C 18PZB100 ? Specs look like it might work in scoop, any thoughts?


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dub it up


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 15 September 2015 at 2:18pm
Originally posted by renzelkouten renzelkouten wrote:

interesting opinions - thank you

i've only got a matrix xt5000g at the mo to hang one hog off each side at mo so will be playing it safe till i get a beefier amp in terms of output level

is there any other suitable drivers that would drop in the same chassis cut out as the PD1850?

also Father-Francis which Fane is suitable for the Hog (the XB?), I was not aware there was one.


I have "spare" Infinite 8MK2 for sale at the moment, that will pretty much power 4x of anything.LOL

PD cutout is 418mm (I think), so most drivers will fit (Except Void and Turbomax).

it's all about the tnut pattern used, if was tnutted for PD hidden holes (matches universal pattern), Yippee, otherwise, erm....

If you can't locate '50 series 1, or 1851, and don't want to tinker with baffles for V18, other options are driver mentioned in PM, or maybe B&C 18TBX100.







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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: renzelkouten
Date Posted: 15 September 2015 at 2:27pm
Cheers Lev, would love an inf8, bit above my price range at mo...maybe in a few months

hogs have been t-nutted for the PDs un-hidden holes unfortunately

seems like best bet is to keep looking out for some PD1850s (seem pretty hard to find some on 2nd hand market), failing that i'll go for the voids and re-do the cut out and the t-nuts

thanks for all the help on the way, we'll get there LOL


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dub it up


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 15 September 2015 at 5:18pm
I believe that BMS 18S430 will also work good.

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Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: bass*en*mass
Date Posted: 15 September 2015 at 6:01pm
spill the beans Lev, dont be so secretive :)

let me guess 18xb1300/1500?


Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 15 September 2015 at 6:16pm
My guess is one of the Faital 18"s 

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James Secker          facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk               www.soundgear.co.uk


Posted By: bass*en*mass
Date Posted: 15 September 2015 at 6:47pm
xl1600, hw1070? 4"VC really?


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 15 September 2015 at 8:10pm
Trust me, they both do very, very well in the right boxes…


Posted By: bass*en*mass
Date Posted: 15 September 2015 at 8:21pm
.. which are?




Posted By: renzelkouten
Date Posted: 15 September 2015 at 8:22pm
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

I believe that BMS 18S430 will also work good.


that looks like an interesting driver, good price as well - anyone tested them in a hog?


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dub it up


Posted By: bass*en*mass
Date Posted: 15 September 2015 at 8:26pm
lol, in that case the 18s450 should be just as good which has been denied by many on here for years..


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 15 September 2015 at 9:55pm
Originally posted by bass*en*mass bass*en*mass wrote:

.. which are?




Xl1600 for a ported FLH...

Reflex for the other.


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 16 September 2015 at 12:40am
Originally posted by bass*en*mass bass*en*mass wrote:

lol, in that case the 18s450 should be just as good which has been denied by many on here for years..

That is because most of them have never actually seen or heard them.


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Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: renzelkouten
Date Posted: 16 September 2015 at 2:02pm
Are there any lower rated drivers that will work well in the Hog design?

Something along the lines of the PD186, Oberton 18XB800 ?


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dub it up


Posted By: turbo7
Date Posted: 16 September 2015 at 6:09pm
BMS 18S450 is a great driver for scoops. It has 12mm "real" xmax and sounds very warm


Posted By: bass*en*mass
Date Posted: 16 September 2015 at 7:35pm
if someone could do with 4 of these terrible drivers gimme a shout :)




Posted By: turbo7
Date Posted: 16 September 2015 at 8:42pm
I have just got a pic with broken driver. Too less glue on inner spider-cone part. Broke after 5 times of use...
edit: it is the only one which ever had a fault until now. Several out there without problems. 


Posted By: AlmostSalty
Date Posted: 19 September 2015 at 8:27pm
PD1850 over void, i've done a a-b test on void and pd, and a turbomax too. The PD sounded more musically and also as if it plays a bit lower than the void. I don't think you would be disappointed with the void tho. As for the turbomax in a hog, doesn't work.. Sounds like its playing outside the room, sounds hollow!

Now,

I'm trying to sim the hog scoop for something else but im having a hard time getting the driver to sit at the throat of the horn:

http://s743.photobucket.com/user/DubHungerForce/media/Hornresp_error.png.html" rel="nofollow">

Anyone know what i'm doing wrong?

edit: image


Posted By: PinHole
Date Posted: 20 September 2015 at 7:48pm
Originally posted by AlmostSalty AlmostSalty wrote:



Now,

I'm trying to sim the hog scoop for something else but im having a hard time getting the driver to sit at the throat of the horn:

http://s743.photobucket.com/user/DubHungerForce/media/Hornresp_error.png.html" rel="nofollow">

Anyone know what i'm doing wrong?

edit: image

You have set way too small "Atc" so rear chamber is shown like duct.



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Signature is important. So I always write something in this dedicated field.


Posted By: AlmostSalty
Date Posted: 20 September 2015 at 10:42pm
Do you know what atc should be set as for the hog scoop? The same as Sd? I'v been using the input parameters from this link: https://www.freespeakerplans.com/forum/38-hosted-plans/5466-hog-scoop#13970


Posted By: all bass
Date Posted: 21 September 2015 at 7:49am
I would start by not making it a TH...

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https://www.instagram.com/my_modular_journey/


Posted By: AlmostSalty
Date Posted: 21 September 2015 at 10:32am
What should it be model as then?

This is what i get if the driver arrangement is set to normal:

http://s743.photobucket.com/user/DubHungerForce/media/driver_xamp.png.html" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: all bass
Date Posted: 21 September 2015 at 10:37am
Simulate it as a normal rear loaded horn(scoop).

Have you compared your inputs with the ones that can be found on google? They differ in a lot of ways.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/240167-void-v18-1000-30hz-2.html#post3586034" rel="nofollow - http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/240167-void-v18-1000-30hz-2.html#post3586034


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https://www.instagram.com/my_modular_journey/


Posted By: AlmostSalty
Date Posted: 21 September 2015 at 11:43am
I did not, was looking ones on here, and found this:
 http://forum.speakerplans.com/scoop-hr-input-reference-guide_topic89839.html

and another post with an SP member linking to the one on FSP. They are the same so i thought there was a good chance it was accurate!

Thanks for the link


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 21 September 2015 at 12:38pm
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

Originally posted by bass*en*mass bass*en*mass wrote:

lol, in that case the 18s450 should be just as good which has been denied by many on here for years..

That is because most of them have never actually seen or heard them.


Specs suggest a very warm driver, but not very efficient. Very similar to Void V18-1200.

BL approx = 26 also suggests this, but also suggests motor not that strong, or won't stay in control for very long, for power input of 900W+, in fairly large chamber, parameters seem to prefer.

V18-1200 was very nice driver, and sounded better than PD1850, V18-1000, but did not provide the similar SPL for input.

Certain Scoop operators desire efficiency as priority, and use Scoops in pairs or 4s, to gain warmth.
Others favor warmth over SPL, and will choose such drivers.

Many people test drivers in private, and report nothing, so who knows which drivers people have heard. Wink




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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: dj haydn
Date Posted: 07 November 2015 at 3:12am
Bit off topic but im thinking of selling my cerwin vega sl36's and replacing them with hogs or x1s.i have 6 void v18-1000s and will soon be reconing another 4 so will have 10 in total. I mainly play dnb and occasionally techno. I have had many issues of the sound travveling too far with the cvs and i have just got some void psychos which will probably be even worse so I want a choice of 2 bass cabs, I don't intend on using both systems at the same time unless I managed to hire them both out separately. I think the hogs will be better for what I want as I'm aiming for 35-90ish hz to meet the primes I intend on swapping my floods over for. Will I still need a kick section or will the primes be ok on top of the hogs without the need for anything else?

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contact me for booking the Earwax Sound-system
@ Earwaxsoundsystem@hotmail.co.uk


Posted By: Miles
Date Posted: 07 November 2015 at 8:13am
I my own experience I would doubt that the sound from hogs travel less then from CV sl36 cabs, I would recommend keeping these CV's and get some x1/non-horn-bass instead of hogs for smallish sessions...


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 07 November 2015 at 10:33am
yeah i don't see why you would have hogs, and psychos. x1s are good indeed for small rooms. they'll only go up to about 70hz though. sounds like really you should be moving towards a bigger pile of psychos for big events.. and maybe cubo 18s or something for smaller events? they say the pd1850 is whopper in cubo 18 extendeds.. don't know if the void driver works well in them though.


Posted By: bass*en*mass
Date Posted: 07 November 2015 at 7:43pm
dj haydn, imo you should first of all analyze your specific gig requirements and go from there finding most suitable cabs for you..

Psychos+primes are hard to use in small locations, ask toasty regarding this ;)
This setup could be used for big gigs though, in halls or outdoors to great effect.
ideally you are looking for 6/3 each side to get the most of them.

For small gigs+dj monitoring you have many options out there, each with some pros and cons, all depends on your taste, budget and specific needs.

I would be looking for cabs that are easily handled by one person, passive Tops and plugNplay patching/rack to speed things up+reduce wiring issues etc.






Posted By: boots-hifi
Date Posted: 07 November 2015 at 9:17pm
Originally posted by cravings cravings wrote:

yeah i don't see why you would have hogs, and psychos. x1s are good indeed for small rooms. they'll only go up to about 70hz though. sounds like really you should be moving towards a bigger pile of psychos for big events.. and maybe cubo 18s or something for smaller events? they say the pd1850 is whopper in cubo 18 extendeds.. don't know if the void driver works well in them though.

1850 are very very good in Cubo extended from personal experience, 8 of the buggers do really sound quite magical. Back to topic...


Posted By: RaskaMC
Date Posted: 21 December 2015 at 2:50pm
Hi, i've read many things on that topics!
 
But the question is still there for me :
 
What is more brutal in a hog? pd1850 /pd1851 /Oberton 18xb1500 or Void v18-1000?


Posted By: Francis
Date Posted: 19 January 2016 at 1:45pm
No answer for this good question? ^^


Posted By: corell
Date Posted: 19 January 2016 at 4:06pm
I dont know how to translate the world "brutal" into loudspeaker specs, so i cant give an answer to that.
The most SPL you will get with 18sound 18NLW9601 in my view.


Posted By: Francis
Date Posted: 19 January 2016 at 5:38pm
Well, nice! but 1800w... Krazy haha!
 
Do you know between 1850 and xb1500? I think more spl with xb1500 or?


Posted By: Brads
Date Posted: 29 November 2018 at 9:38pm
How will RCF P300 perform in hog scoop with an american audio v3001 plus in bridge mono mode? Thx



Posted By: king david
Date Posted: 05 January 2019 at 11:24pm
measured 3 x hogs with 18sw115 outdoors today, running pink noise with 12db butterworth at 20hz...I thought they would have been better around 40/50hz, where I'm doing wrong? microphone at 1,5m in front of the hog in the middle

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http://www.warriorcharge.noblogs.org


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 06 January 2019 at 1:10am
Put the mic further back, especially for multiple boxes. 4m or more. If there are boundaries nearby you’ll also have a reflection causing cancellations in response. You can potentially window these out a little but not say an entire building or big solid wall within 7m or so.


Posted By: king david
Date Posted: 06 January 2019 at 10:47am
Thanks 
Much better now


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http://www.warriorcharge.noblogs.org


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 06 January 2019 at 12:20pm
Nobody actually measures their boxes at 1m. You measure further away and scale to 1m. After all, how much of your audience is 1m away from each speaker?

10m gives the easiest maths, apply 28.3v for sensitivity measurements. Any less, and you just gotta do some logarithmic sums. Assuming that is a calibrated mic, of course.


Posted By: king david
Date Posted: 06 January 2019 at 1:03pm
if I do, I would expect police to show up :D
did this today, at 1m outdoor, boundaries and walls at about 15m
green is no filters no eq
orange is response from processing some technicians did for me (and it doesnt work that well, thats why I do on my own)
purple is 30/70hz 24db LR with some little corrective eq,will try again in the afternoon

REW with umik 1 mic, dsp is nst audio d48s

started to measure kick and trying to time align and the wind started to blow messing everything up

but really thanx for all advices toastyghost, I've got to learn a lot...



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http://www.warriorcharge.noblogs.org


Posted By: fatfreddiescat
Date Posted: 06 January 2019 at 2:08pm
Thanks for posting these measurements, would be nice to see the phase response of the unfiltered measurement as will show where the horn loads down to and also what is happening at the upper notch.
Don't think you need such a severe HP filter, have you tried a 2nd order Butterworth? Less steep filter will reduce GD and also the the Butterworth filter has less effect above it's cutoff, is has a sharper knee I would have thought those drivers would more than cope with that approach.



Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 06 January 2019 at 2:08pm
Looks to me like you have the HPF set a little too gentle. Try a BW24. It’s also worth doing the CEA2010 test in REW (read the manual) to see how the box behaves at full output, it’s often very different to how it measures with low level signal and your preset should be somewhere towards how it’ll be used most often. It’s easy to make a sub look nice with low voltage but often it sounds pants when driven hard!


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 06 January 2019 at 2:11pm
Originally posted by fatfreddiescat fatfreddiescat wrote:

Thanks for posting these measurements, would be nice to see the phase response of the unfiltered measurement as will show where the horn loads down to and also what is happening at the upper notch.
Don't think you need such a severe HP filter, have you tried a 2nd order Butterworth? Less steep filter will reduce GD and also the the Butterworth filter has less effect above it's cutoff, is has a sharper knee I would have thought those drivers would more than cope with that approach.



Better than phase response for subs is the impedance plot and group delay, because all subs will be stretched in time more than any other section of the system. Also, absolute phase is sometimes tricky to measure. You definitely need to be more than 1m away for that - same for EQ and filters to be honest, at 1m you’re barely past the acoustic centre of the box’s output.


Posted By: Tonskulus
Date Posted: 06 January 2019 at 6:38pm
Yes, please, do the measurements at least 5m away! :)  wish it was summertime, cant wait to do my own response measurements @ outdoors. I have umik1 + rew too. 

And it is true, response might be - or will be way different if you compare at 1  watt and 500watts input. 


Posted By: king david
Date Posted: 06 January 2019 at 7:05pm
did it again at 10m...

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http://www.warriorcharge.noblogs.org


Posted By: king david
Date Posted: 06 January 2019 at 7:08pm
this is 
hog w/18sw115 30/60 24db lr with es18 w/18nw100 on top, think low cut on 18nw is lr 24db and higher up its 140hz 12db butterworth but I don't remember now, phase was flipped on the es18, can't remember delay



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http://www.warriorcharge.noblogs.org


Posted By: fatfreddiescat
Date Posted: 06 January 2019 at 9:57pm
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

Originally posted by fatfreddiescat fatfreddiescat wrote:

Thanks for posting these measurements, would be nice to see the phase response of the unfiltered measurement as will show where the horn loads down to and also what is happening at the upper notch.
Don't think you need such a severe HP filter, have you tried a 2nd order Butterworth? Less steep filter will reduce GD and also the the Butterworth filter has less effect above it's cutoff, is has a sharper knee I would have thought those drivers would more than cope with that approach.



Better than phase response for subs is the impedance plot and group delay, because all subs will be stretched in time more than any other section of the system. Also, absolute phase is sometimes tricky to measure. You definitely need to be more than 1m away for that - same for EQ and filters to be honest, at 1m you’re barely past the acoustic centre of the box’s output.

Agree that mpedance plot would be nice to see.

Thanks again for uploading the plots David, I think less is more re hp filter, never found a need to use more than 2nd order on a dual spider subwoofer.


Posted By: paulus
Date Posted: 07 January 2019 at 10:37am
noticed sound imperial sound army using turbomax red eyes in there scoops now !!

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TRENDSETTER SOUND SYSTEM


Posted By: _Natty_
Date Posted: 21 January 2019 at 6:50pm
Originally posted by paulus paulus wrote:

noticed sound imperial sound army using turbomax red eyes in there scoops now !!

i dont think so, we played in a session last december and still no turbomax on them box



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