This Sub amp could be back in business...
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Category: General
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URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=95152
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Topic: This Sub amp could be back in business...
Posted By: turbo7
Subject: This Sub amp could be back in business...
Date Posted: 07 March 2016 at 5:50pm
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Hey, since the Void heavyweights are not longer into production, a lot of people struggle to find high quality Sub Bass amplifiers. I came across the Kind XT-4000, a dual mono monster with 2 mains plugs, class H. It has been into production for 10 years since 1996 i guess... i have tested this amplifier against a lot of heavy/leightweights ( Infinite mk2, lab copys etc. ) and it was always on top, not only in pressure coming from the bins ( 4x Scoops 18nlw9600 ) but in SOUND. It has the most beautiful low notes i have ever heard in the last 15 years. In fact, it was that lovely that i bought some old used ones and made contact with Kind. We talked and an idea is, to bring back a new 2016 color series of this amplifier, a batch of 50 pieces, IF there are people around who are interested. Here is a picture of the XT-2000, the small brother of the XT-4000, they all are double mono class H:  they are built in italy and would not cost a fortune ! Please tell me if you are interested to get one or more of 50 of the best sub amps ever.. Edit: http://kindaudio.com/index.php/products/installed-sound/xt-series |
Replies:
Posted By: lickweed
Date Posted: 07 March 2016 at 7:16pm
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Good amps,they are not budget option,but well worth the price Got KQX28.4,sounds better then quite a few i got in warehouse on midtop duty. Not very common in uk and in general. I might be intrested in some lightweights ------------- http://www.liquidsound.co.uk/ |
Posted By: kedwardsleisure
Date Posted: 07 March 2016 at 8:22pm
I had one of those in for repair just before christmas, first one I'd seen. I expected a chinese interior but was surprised at the european quality.  ------------- Kevin North Staffordshire |
Posted By: KidCreole
Date Posted: 08 March 2016 at 12:52am
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Try a Camco DX48 up against it ------------- Mykey Wattco |
Posted By: turbo7
Date Posted: 08 March 2016 at 8:59am
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i would like to make clear that i am in now way related to the company Kind. I would just love to have some new ones, mine is from 1999 and i am feeling more comfortable to have not so worn out amps, that is all. That is why i was asking them to bring a batch IF there are any more people interested. I have postet this here, because i think this amp makes a lot of sense in my eyes for 13A mains plugs. This is a unique amplifier and it sounds too good and has too much power to be not manufactured anymore. I know that they are totally unknown in UK, in germany they gained very good reputation and it is funny that i can not find any amplifier after 20 years to give the same performance.
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Posted By: Elliot Thompson
Date Posted: 08 March 2016 at 1:59pm
A used Crown MA 5000/02vz can be easily found that offers the same power. I am uncertain why you would consider the Kind Amplifier unique when there are Crown, Crest & QSC amplifiers that will offer the same power. Best Regards, ------------- Elliot Thompson |
turbo7 wrote:Posted By: turbo7
Date Posted: 08 March 2016 at 3:04pm
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i have of course heard all crowns and many other amps. They do not have the output AND soundquality the Kind is giving away and they are all OLD. That is my main problem. You can change caps of course, but still it remains an used amplifier which was probably working for years everyday in an installation. They do have the very big advantage of a double mono design, means there are 2 individual amplifiers in one, and if something is going wrong, one side is likely to play still. They can take 2x 13A plugs instead of one. They are unique, i have not seen an amplifier like this, despite the Chevin A6000 ( smps ) and the FFA class D amplifiers with 2 mains connectors, but no amplifier i have heard is capable of that extreme impulse power - its no joke... i do not make any business - i just want new ones and it is only possible when there is certain interest in this amp. Thats all !
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Posted By: Elliot Thompson
Date Posted: 08 March 2016 at 4:04pm
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I would imagine you fall into the category as a few here. You heard other amplifiers on other systems than yours and left an impression not to your liking. Generally not the best ways to make a comparison as you are at the mercy of the system operator. Sound is subjective which differs from person to person. I did download the thermal draw and current dissipation and, I don’t see an edge the Kind offers over the Crown, Crest & QSC amplifiers that fall within the 5000 watts minimum range. The Crown MA 5000/02 vz is a Dual Mono and could use separate power cords if need be per power transformer. The QSC PFC PL 6.0 offers a power factor correction circuitry. The Crest (9001) is the only one that offers a single Power Transformer however, it is oversized (hence weighing the most) so again, I don’t see anything unique about the Kind XT 4000. The Kind XT 4000 is just as old as the amplifiers I mentioned which, makes XT 4000 outdated under today’s requirements. I am not knocking the Kind XT 4000. I am just trying to see what is so unique about this amplifier that was not introduced 25 years ago by other manufactures. Best Regards, ------------- Elliot Thompson |
Posted By: turbo7
Date Posted: 08 March 2016 at 11:05pm
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First, i have nearly given up with all this. By now there would be only 10 amps to be bought from people, that is a bit less to make a new production run, but it is nice anyway to talk about amplifiers. and to be honest, i should have posted this in some kind of reggae section here  then i would like to enter your interesting comparisons. All amplifiers you mentioned are of course very high profile subbass amplifiers. I did not have a PL.6 or Crest 9001 to compare the Kind with. But i do well know the Crown f.ex., tested on my own speakers which i built and designed. What was fun at the beginning of all amplifier tests, turned out to be a bit irritating in the end. Lots of smp and torrodial transformer amps, like the big Matrix, pkn 6000, void infinite 8mk2 andmoretested and every amp has clearly shown weakness in price, weight, sound, power, stability, etc. I do not base any statement about performance of an amplifier which i heard somewhere... That is of course not the case, so you are free to put me in another category if you prefer. And thank you for enlighten me about the double mono design of the Crown ! I did not realise that, now my thoughts about this are What if you like those amplifiers more than a china amp or a 8000,- amplifier which beats the ones above. Can we say that todays smp amplifiers will still run after 20 years of everyday work I make a comparsion of Pl. 6.0 PFC on a 13A plug vs. Kind on 2x13A plug. The PFC is of course a good thing, and lets say it has a factor of 0.98. It will run cool and is of course more efficient overall than an amplifier without this "circuit". But if you have the double of power to suck out of the net, it will hardly be an advantage. If we put 3 drivers per side on a pl 6.0 and a Kind, off 13A plugs, and play heavy Crest material through it, even with a power factor of 0.98 it will be not giving the same output or trip a breaker. If your argument is, the vz5000 can have 2 power plugs, then my argument is, the kind could also have a PFC circuit. But you are right, its not a unique amp after all. To me it has unique features which i would love to have newer than 18 years old. A new Kind amp would have proven, that it will run 18 or 20 years and still sells for the half of its price. It also would have 3 years guarantee. It would cost way under 2k pounds, new. it would be labeled as 2016 version. Where can someone find one or more pl 9.0 or VZ or 9001 in very good condition nowadays ? And at what price, no guarantee, no knowledge of the component condition. To me, this would be a very good long term investment for small money and big performance. It is a pity that we can only talk in theory, that makes it difficult to me and to everyone because i am the only one here who actually heard it. |
Posted By: Bams
Date Posted: 08 March 2016 at 11:16pm
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i can confirm Kind amps are definately quality stuff. Over here in the netherlands the lighter ones were for some time rather popular for installs because they were a lot cheaper as dynacord but just as sturdy. I also applaud your idea. Funny thing is everybody over here is creative as heck but talkshow about amps like buying a car.. Yes a ford transit connect Will get you everywhere but it might be more fun when you use a fiat multipla .. |
Posted By: Dub Specialist Sound
Date Posted: 08 March 2016 at 11:41pm
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For whom maybe interested ------------- Musical Roots Reggae Vibration is Life! for music is sound...sound is vibration...vibration is energy... and energy begets life. Therein lies my passion!...MUSIC IS LIFE... |
Posted By: csg
Date Posted: 09 March 2016 at 7:40am
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"Can we say that todays smp amplifiers will still run after 20 years of everyday work" Yes, we can. There is nothing inherently unreliable with a well designed switch mode supply compared with a conventional one. The oldest amp i currently have in an installation was manufacturered in 1993 and has NEVER been out of service other than on-site cleaning. The Kind amps do look very nice quality and i have seen a few around over the years, but personally the age of moving heavy amps around has passed. ------------- “The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better” |
Posted By: turbo7
Date Posted: 09 March 2016 at 10:35am
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how much does an equal in quality and output, lightweight alternative cost. This amp is not extremely heavy, weighing 31kg which is something but still less than other torrodial amps. Good to hear that some lightweight amps prove long term stability ! Dont get me wrong, i would love to find an amplifier which is 10kg, high quality, low price, and makes the sound and output i am looking for But which one ?? I did not find anything and we shipped a lot of demo models around the world. In the end it was irritating But the fact that exactly 0 people on here wrote me a PM ( different at other places tho ) is a clear sign that nobody needs / wants them anymore. What is funny to me that i know exactly 0 people who run their reggae/dub systems with lightweight amps. Ok, wait, i know one, but its not that good lol |
Posted By: Elliot Thompson
Date Posted: 09 March 2016 at 2:00pm
I am uncertain why you feel operating Reggae Sound System requires you to seek something completely different. In the 1990s when heavy amplifiers were the standard Reggae Sound Systems used Crown MA 5000 vz and Crest 9001 for Bass. As those amplifiers have already made their mark as an excellent amplifier for Bass from sound systems residing in the States, Canada, Jamaica in addition to the UK, if someone was looking for an old heavy amplifier those two would be first choice. There was more leniency to QSC in Jamaica as they consume less current than Crown & Crest but, the larger sound systems always sported Crown. Today in the Reggae Sound System world it is Powersoft K10, K20 Lab Gruppen PLM 14000, 10000, in addition to PLM 9000. I am not sure how things are in your area but, Kind Amplifiers are not popular enough from a global standpoint to be looked upon as an alternative if someone was seeking an old heavy amplifier for bass in the world of Reggae. The Reggae Soundman will reach faster for a used Crown MA 5000vz and/or Crest 9001 than a Kind XT 4000. Best Regards, ------------- Elliot Thompson |
Posted By: rish
Date Posted: 09 March 2016 at 2:18pm
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Looking at the pics, it seems the Kind amp is of decent build, but more important to me is the fact that in a few years time should I decide to sell the amp, I will probably get more money back on a Crest or Macrotech than the Kind amplifier. its probably this reason as to why you did not get much response on purchasing these amps. I for one do not believe name brand stuff is the best, but when you run a business, you got to get equipment that makes business sense. I am based in South Africa and while we have a very good entertainment industry, people who hires us want to see name brand stuff ie Crown, Shure , JBL/Nexo etc. I literally can charge almost double for events using name brand stuff as " it makes you look professional". I probably can do the same job using a cheaper rig but Looks are everything and therefore coming back to what I said early, it is on this note that it will be easier to sell kit later on and get a decent price for it as well. Rish
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Posted By: turbo7
Date Posted: 09 March 2016 at 2:49pm
Hey Elliot  i do really agree with your statements. I am uncertain why you feel operating Reggae Sound System requires you to seek something completely different. I guess a Reggae sound is seeking for an amplifier which does perform and is attractive in price and quality. The only reason why i posted this here for you UK people is the 2x mains plug, knowing that you have mostly 13A available. I am aware of the fact that these amps are totally unknown to you all, it is different here. Today in the Reggae Sound System world it is Powersoft K10, K20 Lab Gruppen PLM 14000, 10000, in addition to PLM 9000. Why did K10 f. ex. fail in A/B Test against Infinite 8mk2 ? to me it was clear what sound better. It has something like a built in 50hz HP filter in it lol. WHAT DOES THIS AMP COST AND HOW DOES IT PERFORM IN 20 YEARS. Imagine how much weed you have to sell to buy one All amplifiers you mentioned are far far more expensive than the Kind amp. All those amplifiers have no edge at all in performance on a single 13A plug I really think that the majority of reggae sounds, even in UK, still buy used crown crest china lab copies than original powersoft, LAB etc. simply because these amps are too expensive Also, there is no need to have a brand on your amps at all, no technical riders present - i know sounds which would prefer unlabelled equipment over a powersoft f. ex. And in tone, there is no way to compare all those originals and copies to the Kind amp, thats my experience. In my eyes, there is no other way to get a very high standard very good performing and versatile amplifier with 3 years of guarantee for this price on this planet. I just dont find anything... and like i said, i wish i would find a lightweight for reasonable price and quality who "does it" like this amp. the weight is 31kg. It is therefore much lighter than other heavyweight amps It happened just now, there is interest in one amp hehe. we need 13 more pieces to be safely paid to make it real. Any install someone has to make ?! Perfect choice...  |
Posted By: turbo7
Date Posted: 09 March 2016 at 3:18pm
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resale price for used xt-4000 is 1000,-, 15+ years old...at least in germany rish, i know what you are talking about, thats why i should have posted this on reggae forum, where there is no such things like brands to be important to play out or not.
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Posted By: Elliot Thompson
Date Posted: 09 March 2016 at 6:16pm
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I would suggest getting a better understanding between burst rated power (Powersoft) and continuous average power (Void) for they are not going to be the same from a performance factor. All amplifiers can breakdown. There was a
Void Infinite 8v2 shipped to the States to be compared to other amplifiers
which arrived dead on arrival. A Professional will not look at this as poor
product. They will take into consideration how the amplifier was transported
from the One must take heed of the cheapskate mentality when buying amplifiers. If your main objective is cost, you may find yourself short changed in the long run. Cheap amplifiers are short-term investments. They are not something you can guarantee will last for 20 years. Some manufactures will offer a standard and extended warranty if you buy an amplifier brand new. Manufactures that do not offer amplifiers with such an option are the amplifiers you try to make the greatest amount of profit (the amplifier pays for itself plus profit) before the warranty expires or the amplifier fails (Whichever comes first). You cannot have a cheapskate mentality and worry if the amplifier will function properly 20 years later. You are either a Hobbyist or a Professional. Hobbyists are not concerned if the amplifier is going to work 20 years from purchase since logically, the amplifier should have paid itself back within 2 years because it was so cheap to begin with. They just need something immediately due to lack of patience. Amplifiers you invest in are expected to last longer in which, the manufacture will stand by their product. This usually means you have to save (Saving has truly turned into a forgotten art) money in order to buy the particular amplifier in question. It may take you 6 months to a 1 year to buy the amplifier. If I did not have that same frame of thought, I would have never purchased my first (out of six) Macro-tech 5000vz Amplifier(s) in 1995. It is not unusual for an amplifier you invest in to offer manufacture support 20 years later. However, a cheap amplifier may offer 2 years of customer support at best. That is one of the reasons why many invest in amplifiers…service & support. Technically, manufactures will discontinue a product due to faulty issues that are accumulating to a great extent or lack of sales. If the Kind XT 4000 is as good as you claim it is then lack of sales made the manufacture discontinue that model. Best Regards, ------------- Elliot Thompson |
Posted By: jblfreak
Date Posted: 09 March 2016 at 8:45pm
They all should work unless bad, lead-free solder joints kill them, or some unobtainium DSP chip dies  Otherwise they should run 20+ years with no probs. |
Posted By: turbo7
Date Posted: 10 March 2016 at 1:22pm
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Elliot, i do absolutely agree with what you are saying. Maybe my english is too bad to get my point across. I do understand very well the difference between peak and program and rms etc., i studied electrical engineering on university so i am aware of that all. the problem i have with expensive amps: For me, this is all totally out of balance. For the price of a Lab / Powersoft, i am getting a complete surround sound hifi system incl. amplifier + a decent car built around it. No matter where the reasons are for this, i am not stupid enough to safe money for a small 10kg amplifier for hobby applications ! When buying the Kind amp i know that it is reliable ( because proven ), its not expensive, it makes what i want, and i fade out the weight of 31kg. My only aim is to buy quality, like i said i dont need this amplifier for everyday business, this would be an ideal choice for hobbiest who is looking for quality components and a versatile sub bass solution. I dont care about amplifiers which cost more than the double and do not give me better performance. I have read the LAB 14k marketing paper and all i can see is number hunting. It draws 90A peak. haha. Cool ! Why is it not superior in subbass then on EVERY application ? It must be totally shame the Kind amp but it does in no way... Of course a professional can not buy this Kind amplifier today. That is no question at all. A company needs to get clients. But this here is speakerplans forum, a forum for not only professionals, also for hobbyist, and for those people this makes a lot of sense to buy this amp. Professionals do not need to cope with 13A plugs at all, and when there is not more present, the job is very small and still perfect with any amplifier. But a Reggae Dub sound hast to look what can an amplifier do on 4 scoops and does it catch fire, is it more expensive than the whole other stuff around it. Every amp can break down, of course, i have seen damaged voids, crowns and crests, also damaged kind amps. After all its a electronic product
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Posted By: ape3435
Date Posted: 10 March 2016 at 5:37pm
Well put mate 
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Posted By: King Simeon
Date Posted: 10 March 2016 at 7:21pm
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"I really think that the majority of reggae sounds, even in UK, still buy used crown crest china lab copies than original powersoft, LAB etc. simply because these amps are too expensive" Your a little out of the loop i'm afraid. A lot of sounds in UK have invested in Powersoft amps. I would prefer it if more were listening to the actual sound of the bass. Speaking specifically of the Roots/Dub sounds. When the amps pushed they appear to play the same note and whether it's a live bass guitar or a digital /sine wav… it sounds the same. That's my ears and my personal opinion, but I think people will figure it out in time. ------------- https://www.facebook.com/KingSimeonSound?ref=stream https://soundcloud.com/king-simeon |
Posted By: C-Audiofreak
Date Posted: 12 March 2016 at 8:51pm
| The c-audio sr808 was dual mono and had two mains leads with a pair of transformers inside it but are rare as rocking horse shit |
Posted By: Elliot Thompson
Date Posted: 14 March 2016 at 12:41pm
If all you are using is four boxes then, you cannot expect a lot of users to find what you are doing equal to what they are doing when a lot of users around the globe are toting 8, 12, 18, and/or 24 Scoops for bass on a regular bases. I am not going to get into the whole Scoop thing for many on this board know I don’t fancy Scoops. However, from a Reggae Sound system standpoint, you have been misled if you think four boxes for bass would be considered a sound system in the eyes of many Reggae Sound systems across the globe. Historically, Reggae Sound Systems are known for being extremely large in size. You have a very small sound system and I can understand you are aiming for the best sound quality possible with what you have. At the same token, guys that are larger than you are also aiming for the same thing and will take all the boxes in the equation they are using for bass per column. So it is a matter of selecting what works best for you, not what everyone else is using which is quite understandable. In the case of the larger sound system owners, the Powersofts, Lab Gruppens and so forth works well for their needs as they have already experienced amplifiers that offer the same amount of power the Kind Amplifier you fancy delivers and found the Powersofts & Lab Gruppens do a better job for their requirements. Best Regards, ------------- Elliot Thompson |
Posted By: Jimmer
Date Posted: 14 March 2016 at 12:44pm
No they weren't, dual transformers yes...but only one power input. ------------- Light travels faster than sound....That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak! |
Posted By: wires
Date Posted: 14 March 2016 at 1:44pm
| You're thinking of the c audio xr5001 that had two power leads dual mono. Yep good sound, pretty rare but bloody heavy as well. Doubt i would buy them again though after going lightweight amps. |
Posted By: C-Audiofreak
Date Posted: 14 March 2016 at 5:45pm
| Ah ok strange because the mk1 808 a freind of mine had did have two power leads on it must have been a Frankenstein 808 I guess |
Posted By: njw
Date Posted: 14 March 2016 at 6:35pm
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Posted By: matt mcginn hi fi
Date Posted: 14 March 2016 at 8:01pm
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good luck with your project turbo...... Don't let people put you off. |
Posted By: wires
Date Posted: 14 March 2016 at 11:37pm
| i used to move racks of xr3801 and xr5001 around every week, load out was always horrible but i was alot younger lol |
Posted By: njw
Date Posted: 15 March 2016 at 9:23pm
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Posted By: Jimmer
Date Posted: 15 March 2016 at 9:36pm
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If anybody wants to sell a SRX3801.... ------------- Light travels faster than sound....That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak! |
Posted By: wires
Date Posted: 15 March 2016 at 10:15pm
| You've got loads of sr amps, just buy more 808's ;) |
Posted By: C-Audiofreak
Date Posted: 15 March 2016 at 10:17pm
| If there is an xr5001 for sale please message me the details also would be interested in a void inf8mk1 |
Posted By: Jimmer
Date Posted: 15 March 2016 at 10:27pm
Finding another 808 in good nick, is proving a tad difficult!! ------------- Light travels faster than sound....That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak! |
Posted By: midas
Date Posted: 16 March 2016 at 1:13pm
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I know were there are many 808's......! BUT he did promise to ring me when they were ready for sale. That was over a year ago! ------------- In bass no one can hear you scream! |
Posted By: Jimmer
Date Posted: 16 March 2016 at 9:37pm
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Do I need to flash a bit of leg Mark?.... I only need one more! ------------- Light travels faster than sound....That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak! |
Posted By: C-Audiofreak
Date Posted: 16 March 2016 at 9:38pm
| Yes Midas I remember you telling me about them give me a shout if he comes up with the goodies I could do with one |
Posted By: Djdarch
Date Posted: 17 March 2016 at 9:04pm
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I have 3 srx3801 up for sale if there is any interest ? |
Posted By: boots-hifi
Date Posted: 17 March 2016 at 9:37pm
Alright Dell boy! |
Posted By: Djdarch
Date Posted: 18 March 2016 at 12:05am
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LOL you can be rodney ! |
Posted By: boots-hifi
Date Posted: 18 March 2016 at 6:58am
| Ill be your rodney mukka! |
Posted By: cuttinraza
Date Posted: 10 October 2017 at 9:12am
| greetings do u still have any of these srx’s for sale?? blesz |
Posted By: estebankito
Date Posted: 13 March 2023 at 7:34pm
| please give me diagram for kindaudio XT-4000 |
Posted By: estebankito
Date Posted: 13 March 2023 at 7:35pm
please give me diagram for kindaudio XT-4000
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Posted By: midas
Date Posted: 13 March 2023 at 9:36pm
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I would just like to point out, you should test the pkn 10,000 not 6000 on sub. Hats off to you for trying. Just out of interest what is the price? ------------- In bass no one can hear you scream! |